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Malaysian airline MH-17 discussion thread

12357…89

Comments

  • #202
    wretcheddomain
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,094 ✭✭✭wretcheddomain


    Conas wrote: »
    Well what action has Putin taken in Ukraine? He didn't arrange the coup, that started all this is off. It will be no laughing matter if this spills over, and there's another World War on European soil.

    I'll break my rule and answer two.

    Accepting the secession of Crimea? I mean, if Putin had no involvement whatsoever, then he'd distance himself from such a secession. Knowing that this secession would cause further unrest in western Ukraine was inevitable - so that is "action taken" - either direct or indirect, depending on what position you adopt.

    He didn't arrange the coup but he's actively supporting the rebels, thereby prolonging the conflict. Furthermore, the UK and United States supply weapons to the Syrian rebels but I imagine that you look upon this as "interference". If it's interference for Syria, then it's interference for Putin.

    Both of these political moves have prolonged the conflict. Let's assume that the West ignited the conflict; Putin turned it into a conflagration.

    Anyway, I've broken my rule not to engage with you on these matters, at the risk of being off-topic, I'll depart from the political slant.


  • #203
    Diabhal Beag
    Closed Accounts Posts: 15,238 ✭✭✭✭Diabhal Beag


    That pic of the passports is heartbreaking if it's real.


  • #204
    Tipsy McSwagger
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,068 ✭✭✭Tipsy McSwagger


    Diabhal Beag wrote: »
    That pic of the passports is heartbreaking if it's real.

    Pics of the bodies are a lot worse.


  • #205
    Harry Palmr
    Closed Accounts Posts: 40,061 ✭✭✭✭Harry Palmr


    The black boxes will hopefully reveal something, or at least rule certain events out.


  • #206
    Conas
    Registered Users Posts: 1,071 ✭✭✭Conas


    wretcheddomain wrote: »
    I'll break my rule and answer two.

    Accepting the secession of Crimea? I mean, if Putin had no involvement whatsoever, then he'd distance himself from such a secession. Knowing that this secession would cause further unrest in western Ukraine was inevitable - so that is "action taken" - either direct or indirect, depending on what position you adopt.

    He didn't arrange the coup but he's actively supporting the rebels, thereby prolonging the conflict. Furthermore, the UK and United States supply weapons to the Syrian rebels but I imagine that you look upon this as "interference". If it's interference for Syria, then it's interference for Putin.

    Both of these political moves have prolonged the conflict. Let's assume that the West ignited the conflict; Putin turned it into a conflagration.

    Anyway, I've broken my rule not to engage with you on these matters, at the risk of being off-topic, I'll depart from the political slant.

    He went into protect ethnic Russians, who wanted him to go in after the illegal overthrow of a legit goverment, and who voted unanimously to rejoin Russia. He hasn't moved any further since. If the people of Crimea don't want to be part of Ukraine anymore, that's their decision. The same way if the people of Northern Ireland, no longer wanted to be part of the UK, they can do it also.


  • #207
    karma_
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 6,798 ✭✭✭karma_


    Harry Palmr wrote: »
    The black boxes will hopefully reveal something, or at least rule certain events out.


    I'm not sure what they would tell us other than it was definitely struck by a missile.

    In fairness, this one seems clear cut and it can only be the separatists.


  • #208
    wretcheddomain
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,094 ✭✭✭wretcheddomain


    With respect to the plane actually breaking up - if it broke up either at the point of contact of the missile or mid-air, then wouldn't you expect a greater spread of the wreckage? Judging from the photos on Twitter, the wreckage seems to be collected as if it crashed without breaking up; at an angle of course.


  • #209
    Diabhal Beag
    Closed Accounts Posts: 15,238 ✭✭✭✭Diabhal Beag


    Tipsy McSwagger wrote: »
    Pics of the bodies are a lot worse.

    Didn't see that yet thank ****


  • #210
    losthorizon
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,565 ✭✭✭losthorizon


    Rhys Essien wrote: »
    Passenger jets should not have been in any danger on this flight path,especially at 33,000ft.We can safely say that this jet was NOT shot down by your average untrained seperatist.

    It was shot down by something like this.The latest most sophisticated SAM.Now the question is,were NATO aware of any of these along the Russian border.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pantsir-S1

    Reuters are saying it was a BUK missle system quoting interfax.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buk_missile_system


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  • #211
    Tipsy McSwagger
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,068 ✭✭✭Tipsy McSwagger


    Russian terrorists have admitted shooting down 2 planes in that area today.


  • #212
    Harry Palmr
    Closed Accounts Posts: 40,061 ✭✭✭✭Harry Palmr


    karma_ wrote: »
    I'm not sure what they would tell us other than it was definitely struck by a missile.

    In fairness, this one seems clear cut and it can only be the separatists.

    Is it? Has anyone reported a missile launch? Or see the aircraft explode in the sky?


  • #213
    Fr_Dougal
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,166 ✭✭✭Fr_Dougal


    Just saw a pic of some bodies amongst the wreckage on twitter.

    Rip.


  • #214
    major bill
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,421 ✭✭✭major bill


    RIP to all onboard


  • #215
    karma_
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 6,798 ✭✭✭karma_


    Harry Palmr wrote: »
    Is it? Has anyone reported a missile launch? Or see the aircraft explode in the sky?

    Well given they claimed to have shot down a Ukrainian military plane at around the same time, and no Ukrainian plane was downed... and those claims subsequently being distanced, yeah it seems clear cut.


  • #216
    Tipsy McSwagger
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,068 ✭✭✭Tipsy McSwagger


    Ah jaysus I just seen a pic of a dead child still strapped in its seat.


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  • #217
    ceadaoin.
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,363 ✭✭✭ceadaoin.


    There seem to be loads of pics popping up on twitter of people finding pieces of wreckage but are there any emergency services or police on the scene? Surely it's best for the evidence not to be disturbed and to be recovered ASAP so that it can be determined what exactly happened.


  • #218
    ceadaoin.
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,363 ✭✭✭ceadaoin.


    Tipsy McSwagger wrote: »
    Ah jaysus I just seen a pic of a dead child still strapped in its seat.

    Jesus that's heartbreaking, what kind of person would post such a picture. :mad:


  • #219
    comongethappy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,753 ✭✭✭comongethappy


    Tipsy McSwagger wrote: »
    Russian terrorists have admitted shooting down 2 planes in that area today.

    Conveniently that story stopped running as soon as the Malaysian plane was reported missing


  • #220
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 6,025 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    TheZohan wrote: »
    Just saw a pic of some bodies amongst the wreckage on twitter.

    Rip.

    Ive been watching a Rssian news report, jesus, the coverage is very graphic. Like something from a horror movie :(

    I have to ask, why on earth are camera crews allowed so close to a crash site. Who knows what evidence they could be trampling on.


  • #221
    comongethappy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,753 ✭✭✭comongethappy


    ceadaoin. wrote: »
    There seem to be loads of pics popping up on twitter of people finding pieces of wreckage but are there any emergency services or police on the scene? Surely it's best for the evidence not to be disturbed and to be recovered ASAP so that it can be determined what exactly happened.

    There is some...

    TV showing what appears to be a fire crew on site putting out the fire.


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  • #222
    Dr Strange
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,427 ✭✭✭Dr Strange


    ceadaoin. wrote: »
    There seem to be loads of pics popping up on twitter of people finding pieces of wreckage but are there any emergency services or police on the scene? Surely it's best for the evidence not to be disturbed and to be recovered ASAP so that it can be determined what exactly happened.

    If the images are correct the identification process has been made a whole lot more difficult by removing the passports and possibly personal items (this post: http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=91320908&postcount=192) from bodies or near the bodies. At the very least the site would be mapped and separated into squares and all items, bodies, body parts, wreckage parts, etc. would be recorded in relation to each other to provide the best advantage for identifying the victims.


  • #223
    Angry_Mammarys
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 279 ✭✭Angry_Mammarys


    I'm actually afraid to log into twitter in case I see something, It's horrible putting those pictures up, what if a family member seen :( Really hoping that it happened so fast that noone suffered:(


  • #224
    beks101
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,802 ✭✭✭beks101


    Scene hasn't yet been cordoned off and a Russian news agency is the first press to the site. They've been posting pictures and video, body parts and passports and tickets strewn across the place, I saw a 'Guide to Bali' book in one shot.


  • #225
    Tipsy McSwagger
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,068 ✭✭✭Tipsy McSwagger


    ceadaoin. wrote: »
    Jesus that's heartbreaking, what kind of person would post such a picture. :mad:

    It really brings home what has happened. All you can see on Sky News is black smoke and not the total devastation of the crash. It's horrible but a photo will make people angry and want answers.


  • #226
    miss no stars
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,957 ✭✭✭miss no stars


    wretcheddomain wrote: »
    With respect to the plane actually breaking up - if it broke up either at the point of contact of the missile or mid-air, then wouldn't you expect a greater spread of the wreckage? Judging from the photos on Twitter, the wreckage seems to be collected as if it crashed without breaking up; at an angle of course.

    The debris is spread over a 15km long area...


  • #227
    ceadaoin.
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,363 ✭✭✭ceadaoin.


    comongethappy wrote: »
    There is some...

    TV showing what appears to be a fire crew on sirmte putting out the fire.

    Well at least that's something. It just seems to be a free for all right now. Apparently Russian news has shown a video of the passports being opened and the identities shown clearly, some of them children. That's just wrong.


  • #228
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 6,025 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    beks101 wrote: »
    Scene hasn't yet been cordoned off and a Russian news agency is the first press to the site. They've been posting pictures and video, body parts and passports and tickets strewn across the place, I saw a 'Guide to Bali' book in one shot.

    I saw that too. Its nuts how people are running around this site. :mad:


  • #229
    The One Doctor
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,339 ✭✭✭The One Doctor


    God. The poor passengers and crew. Very sad. And I really, really hope it wasn't a shootdown.
    miss no stars wrote: »
    The debris is spread over a 15km long area...

    That makes a shootdown. The aircraft came apart bit by bit.

    Shit.


  • #230
    Rhys Essien
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,029 ✭✭✭Rhys Essien


    Crikey,there could have been multiple airliners shot down.Emirates,Etihad,Singapore and Kazakh airlines were all in the immediate area and all carried on.On C4 news now.


  • #231
    vicwatson
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 28,404 ✭✭✭✭vicwatson


    Harry Palmr wrote: »
    The black boxes will hopefully reveal something, or at least rule certain events out.

    That's if they ever retrieve them, I can imagine they'll be stolen too or destroyed
    Tipsy McSwagger wrote: »
    Ah jaysus I just seen a pic of a dead child still strapped in its seat.

    Sick bastards that take and post these pictures, like seriously they need to get a serious life:mad:


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  • #232
    spillit67
    Registered Users Posts: 823 ✭✭✭spillit67


    Jake1 wrote: »
    Ive been watching a Rssian news report, jesus, the coverage is very graphic. Like something from a horror movie :(

    I have to ask, why on earth are camera crews allowed so close to a crash site. Who knows what evidence they could be trampling on.

    um this area is pretty much an ungoverned warzone.


  • #233
    riffmongous
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 12,813 Mod ✭✭✭✭riffmongous


    Rhys Essien wrote: »
    Crikey,there could have been multiple airliners shot down.Emirates,Etihad,Singapore and Kazakh airlines were all in the immediate area and all carried on.On C4 news now.
    Russia Today just claimed that Putins plane was in the area :confused: Bizarre deflection claim maybe


  • #234
    floggg
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,824 ✭✭✭floggg


    Conas wrote: »
    Good description of George W Bush and Barack Obama alright.

    Didn't you storm off in a huff?

    And agreed.

    They are not half as bad as Putin though.


  • #235
    My name is URL
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,069 ✭✭✭✭My name is URL


    The One Doctor wrote: »


    That makes a shootdown. The aircraft came apart bit by bit.

    Shit.

    More than likely at this stage but it's the only possible explanation for a plane breaking up at high altitude.


  • #236
    beks101
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,802 ✭✭✭beks101


    From a journalist at the crash scene:

    @NoahSneider
    At crash site of #MH17. Bodies everywhere, organs splayed out. Too gruesome to post photographs. This is an absolute disaster. #ukraine

    They need to cordone the site the fcuk off, it seems it's a free-for-all at this point.


  • #237
    Firefox11
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,515 ✭✭✭Firefox11


    spillit67 wrote: »
    um this area is pretty much an ungoverned warzone.

    that's what I would fear. The possibility of a fair and impartial air crash investigation is slim at best. We may naver know what exactly what happened here.


  • #238
    snaps
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,138 ✭✭✭snaps


    Its a free for all as the police and military can't get to the scene as the militants won't allow them. Its a real mess and a tragedy. Perhaps Putin will use some sense and talk to these militants.


  • #239
    miss no stars
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,957 ✭✭✭miss no stars


    beks101 wrote: »
    From a journalist at the crash scene:

    @NoahSneider
    At crash site of #MH17. Bodies everywhere, organs splayed out. Too gruesome to post photographs. This is an absolute disaster. #ukraine

    They need to cordone the site the fcuk off, it seems it's a free-for-all at this point.

    problem: who is they?


  • #240
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    It would be best if people didn't post links to Twitter or news feeds with graphic content. Also really don't need to read posts describing graphic images :(


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  • #241
    My name is URL
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,069 ✭✭✭✭My name is URL


    beks101 wrote: »
    From a journalist at the crash scene:

    @NoahSneider
    At crash site of #MH17. Bodies everywhere, organs splayed out. Too gruesome to post photographs. This is an absolute disaster. #ukraine

    They need to cordone the site the fcuk off, it seems it's a free-for-all at this point.

    Ukraine is the largest country in Europe, and this happened in a relatively remote area in which an active conflict is underway.

    Plus the wreckage probably covers an area of a few dozen miles. It's not just as straight forward as emergency services showing up and instantly closing the crash site off.


  • #242
    comongethappy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,753 ✭✭✭comongethappy


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    It would be best if people didn't post links to Twitter or news feeds with graphic content. Also really don't need to read posts describing graphic images :(

    Feel free not to click a posted link.


  • #243
    beks101
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,802 ✭✭✭beks101


    My name is URL wrote: »
    Ukraine is the largest country in Europe, and this happened in a relatively remote area in which an active conflict is underway.

    Plus the wreckage probably covers an area of a few dozen miles. It's not just as straight forward as emergency services showing up and instantly closing the crash site off.

    In the pictures I've seen there's a concentration of (disturbing) wreckage in one area where a swarm of what looks like firefighters, locals and journalists also are. I find it hard to believe that section can't be dealt with


  • #244
    Captain Chaos
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,174 ✭✭✭✭Captain Chaos


    karma_ wrote: »
    I'm not sure what they would tell us other than it was definitely struck by a missile.

    In fairness, this one seems clear cut and it can only be the separatists.

    Nope, the separatists have nothing that can touch an aircraft above 10,000ft, just shoulder launched missiles. This was brought down by a proper military SAM site that can hit an aircraft at any altitude.


  • #245
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    comongethappy wrote: »
    Feel free not to click a posted link.
    I haven't clicked any thankfully but not everyone warns about the graphic nature of what is in the link.


  • #246
    Lingua Franca
    Registered Users Posts: 2,800 ✭✭✭Lingua Franca


    Separatists found the black box, say they're sending it to Moscow - Dutch News NOS channel


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  • #247
    Donkey Oaty
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,533 ✭✭✭Donkey Oaty


    Captain Chaos wrote: »
    Nope, the separatists have nothing that can touch an aircraft above 10,000ft.

    BBC published this at 17.32:
    The BBC's Oleg Boldyrev in Moscow says the rebels do not have out-dated equipment. What they have equals or maybe surpasses the Ukrainian government's capabilities. He says some reports say the rebels even have fighter planes reportedly flown from Crimea and that possibility should not be excluded.


  • #248
    comongethappy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,753 ✭✭✭comongethappy


    Captain Chaos wrote: »
    Nope, the separatists have nothing that can touch an aircraft above 10,000ft, just shoulder launched missiles. This was brought down by a proper military SAM site that can hit an aircraft at any altitude.

    I thought that.... But it seems they could have had a couple of captured (or donated) larger SAM launchers.

    One of the eastern rebel leaders was boasting about some advanced SAM capability recently acquired.


  • #249
    GrumPy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,561 ✭✭✭GrumPy


    Deleted User wrote: »
    I haven't clicked any thankfully but not everyone warns about the graphic nature of what is in the link.

    No, not everyone is gonna NSFW tag photos.
    So if you don't want to see that, you should probably avoid clicking ANY image links on twitter if you don't want to see graphic imagery. It's a plane crash, everyone died, there are going to be videos and photographs of human remains.


  • #250
    AlanS181824
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 5,575 ✭✭✭AlanS181824


    I hope all those are okay.

    Thoughts are with their families.

    Edit: Just read the article, what an awful awful thing to happen :(


  • #251
    darkpagandeath
    Closed Accounts Posts: 24,465 ✭✭✭✭darkpagandeath


    Lingua Franca wrote: »
    Separatists found the black box, say they're sending it to Moscow - Dutch News NOS channel

    There is also talk from the separatist side the site might be attacked to cover up something.


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