Born Again Christians and Illegitimate children

greengirl31 · 31-05-2008 11:43pm #1

I was just wondering how born again Christians view children born outside of marriage – or rather their parents
My baby’s father, was (is) married but told me he had split with his wife – I know our relationship wasn’t right in the eyes of the church but that’s a whole other matter.
While I was pregnant he decided to become born again and remain with his wife yet he lied to me in so much as he didn’t tell me and until just before our beautiful daughter I believed we were going to be a family. (I found out about this by accident – he didn’t divulge the information himself)
Our daughter is almost 7 months old now. He has only seen her 3 times even though I’ve told him I want him to be part of her life – he is after all her father. He hasn’t told his wife (also a born again Christian) about his child and while he does contribute financially that is his only input into her life …
My question is - can he be a true Christian if he, not only continues lying to his wife by neglecting to tell the truth but also denies his only child. I believe a child is the most precious gift God can give you and to deny your child must grieve god ??

I'd appreciate your comments on this please

Thanks

PDN · 01-06-2008 12:03am

greengirl31 wrote: »

I was just wondering how born again Christians view children born outside of marriage – or rather their parents
My baby’s father, was (is) married but told me he had split with his wife – I know our relationship wasn’t right in the eyes of the church but that’s a whole other matter.
While I was pregnant he decided to become born again and remain with his wife yet he lied to me in so much as he didn’t tell me and until just before our beautiful daughter I believed we were going to be a family. (I found out about this by accident – he didn’t divulge the information himself)
Our daughter is almost 7 months old now. He has only seen her 3 times even though I’ve told him I want him to be part of her life – he is after all her father. He hasn’t told his wife (also a born again Christian) about his child and while he does contribute financially that is his only input into her life …
My question is - can he be a true Christian if he, not only continues lying to his wife by neglecting to tell the truth but also denies his only child. I believe a child is the most precious gift God can give you and to deny your child must grieve god ??

I'd appreciate your comments on this please

Thanks

Speaking as a Christian pastor, God loves all children. Illegitimate or not makes no difference to that.

The father of your child, as I read your post, became a Christian and then decided to stay with his wife. That is understandable. Indeed, if his repentance is genuine then attempting to heal his marriage may well be the right course of action. However, his lying both to you and to his wife is wrong, and he has a responsibility to care for his child.

If his marriage really was in trouble before he met you (I say 'if' since most married men who enter into an extra-marital relationship make such claims) then he may well be terrified that telling his wife about the baby will destroy the marriage. That may also explain his lack of interest in the child.

Sadly you seem to have got the short end of the stick and are left to bring up a child on your own. That sucks, and I'm sorry to hear it.

JimiTime · 01-06-2008 2:00am

greengirl31 wrote: »

I was just wondering how born again Christians view children born outside of marriage – or rather their parents
My baby’s father, was (is) married but told me he had split with his wife – I know our relationship wasn’t right in the eyes of the church but that’s a whole other matter.
While I was pregnant he decided to become born again and remain with his wife yet he lied to me in so much as he didn’t tell me and until just before our beautiful daughter I believed we were going to be a family. (I found out about this by accident – he didn’t divulge the information himself)
Our daughter is almost 7 months old now. He has only seen her 3 times even though I’ve told him I want him to be part of her life – he is after all her father. He hasn’t told his wife (also a born again Christian) about his child and while he does contribute financially that is his only input into her life …
My question is - can he be a true Christian if he, not only continues lying to his wife by neglecting to tell the truth but also denies his only child. I believe a child is the most precious gift God can give you and to deny your child must grieve god ??

I'd appreciate your comments on this please

Thanks

What a horrid scenario for you, your child her father and his family. It sounds like whatever way it goes, someones going to be badly hurt. I, like PDN, would be happy to see him patch his marriage up, however, its never going to be patched up unless his wife knows of your affair. Maybe it will prey on his concience, and he will confess to his wife. It will take courage to do that, and he doesn't seem to be displaying much of that. If it remains as is, what would you feel your options are? (don't answer that if you don't want to, I'm not asking out of curiosity but rather to see if there is any advice that could be offered). None of the behaviour thus far has been christian, and the consequences are probably going to be felt most by your daughter unfortunately. One thing i would say though is, I wouldn't lie to your daughter. Don't reduce yourself to the role of liar to protect this guy.

Obviously thats all just my opinion of course. I really hope that it all reaches the happiest possible conclusion for all parties involved.

J.

Asiaprod · 01-06-2008 3:00am

PDN wrote: »

If his marriage really was in trouble before he met you (I say 'if' since most married men who enter into an extra-marital relationship make such claims) then he may well be terrified that telling his wife about the baby will destroy the marriage. That may also explain his lack of interest in the child.

Just my 10 cents worth, if he really is a Christian he is duty bound by is faith to tie up all loose ends. Two wrongs can never make a right. If he does not he is living his life both as a lier and hypocrite, and for me is a person that has a distinct lack of faith in his own Christianity. This does not even touch on those famous issue we currently see in this forum of christian morality and ethos, holds breath while Robin starts up his motor:). Based on what I understand of Christianity, this actions towards the OP and deserting their child ranks right at the top of thing a Christian should never do if he is to remain faithful to his path. Is this person not by the standards of his own faith living a seriously false and sinful life, or is there more flexibility allowed than I am aware of? Fear of destroying his marriage is not an acceptable excuse in this case.

robindch · 01-06-2008 8:09am

greengirl31 wrote: »

He has only seen her 3 times even though I’ve told him I want him to be part of her life – he is after all her father. He hasn’t told his wife (also a born again Christian) about his child and while he does contribute financially that is his only input into her life

Greengirl -- that's a tough situation.

Speaking as a non-christian and the dad of an adorable 19 month old daughter, I would suggest that you not worry about whether he's being a good christian. Whether or not he thinks that he's conforming to the ethical rules that he no doubt proclaims quite loudly in public is surely something that he alone should be concerned about; though people who know about the situation, and those who will know this in future and can look back upon his loud hosannas, are and will be free to draw the rather unavoidable conclusion that ethical rules, for him, are easier to parrot than to follow. Internally, he may think that god has forgiven him and forgotten it, in which case he may not be very worried about it. Alternatively, he may think that god has not forgiven him, in which case he'll be aware that he's parroting the rules, and this may distress him. Either way, he doesn't seem much concerned about it and his current carry-on is less than admirable.

However, the entire situation will catch up with him sooner or later, and probably not on his terms and he should be aware of that. Better to deal with it now in a planned way, than in one, five, ten or twenty years' time, unplanned.

Regardless of the guy's feelings and religious beliefs, the main issue is that your child grows up in caring and nurturing environment and not one characterized by stealth. While his marriage and his wife may be important to him -- though I can't immediately see how -- and his status as a righteous member of a public church maybe even more so, your daughter's right to access her parents openly, and the parents' responsibility to provide that, override either of the father's relatively trivial concerns by a long, long way. And in years to come, she will find out whether her father was either a hypocrite, or somebody who was there to help her.

The best of luck.

Conar · 01-06-2008 8:43am

Sounds like an awful situation.

Also speaking as an atheist I would imagine that anyone who reckons they are a born again Christian yet ignores the child of an extramarital affair obviously doesn't believe in all that he says he does and is probably not the best role model for a child anyway.
It is definitely good to have a father in a child's life but don't forget you would always be fine without him as would your child.

Maybe you should tell his wife?
I mean if they're born again Christians then they should be fairly forgiving no?
She deserves to know what he's been up to and maybe it would clear things up and he would feel able to visit his daughter more freely.

greengirl31 · 01-06-2008 8:41pm

Thanks you all very much for your replies. I am what I believed to be a lapsed catholic - therefore am not very well versed in the bible. I do however try to live a good life and not hurt anybody intentionally. I suppose my main reason for posting here was to see if my babys father was able to justify his actions - was he forgiven once he repented.
I think, and as I said, i'm not too au fait with the bible, that if he tells god he's sorry but continues to lie to his wife and not pubically acknowledge his child he's being a hypocrite and because he's sinning as long as he's doing this can't be forgiven.
The fact that he's trying to fix his marriage isn't really an issue with me. I asked him before ever we began a relationship if he didn't want to give his marriage one more go but he assured that me it was over and that it had been a joint decision to "call it a day" (his words). He had said that they had married to young and they werent' right for each other. I wasn't thrilled that his marriage had broken up but I believed he had tried everything to make it work. I know now that that was all lies.
I do have huge sympathy for his wife. Especially due to the fact that so far and after alot of trying she is unable to have a child. And I have thought about telling her but I don't purely for selfish reasons. My Daughters father pays maintainence regurlarly and promptly and I believe the only reason he does so is out of fear that I will contact his wife. Once she finds out I doubt the payments will be so prompt.
I don't know if this will destroy his marriage ... Perhaps his wife is more forgiving than me. I think his marriage is tainted now forever and in a way I hope he's left alone because I don't think he deserves to be loved by her ... He has and continues to treat her appalingly - but i'm not her so maybe she will forgive him and if she does good luck to her because I think she'll need it.
As for what I do now, I'm not sure. In one way I'm glad he doesn't want to see her because he's not exactly the role model I had intended for my daughter. Also, I dont' want him to decide he wants to see her and be part of her life when his wife finds out and he has nothing to lose. I want the best for my daughter and I have no Idea what I'll say to my little girl when she does ask about her daddy. I have no intention of lying to her because then I'd be no better than him but how or what am I going to tell her without breaking her heart ?? I love my daughter with all my heart and I believe God sent her to save me because I honestly don't know how I'd have gotten through the last few months without her. As tough as things have been, they could've been worse. I thank God for my blessings every day ...

Conar · 01-06-2008 8:49pm

greengirl31 wrote: »

Also, I dont' want him to decide he wants to see her and be part of her life when his wife finds out and he has nothing to lose.

If you continue to accept maintenance off him then he'll probably always have that option.
If you want to cut him loose then maybe you shouldn't accept his money.

greengirl31 wrote: »

I want the best for my daughter and I have no Idea what I'll say to my little girl when she does ask about her daddy. I have no intention of lying to her because then I'd be no better than him but how or what am I going to tell her without breaking her heart ??

Children are a blank canvas and only know what you tell them so if you tell her that its normal to not have a daddy then thats what she'll believe in my opinion.
Listen, so many children have 2 awful parents, your daughter isn't going to suffer from having just one good one.

greengirl31 wrote: »

I love my daughter with all my heart and I believe God sent her to save me because I honestly don't know how I'd have gotten through the last few months without her. As tough as things have been, they could've been worse. I thank God for my blessings every day ...

It might seem that way but perhaps you wouldn't have found this whole ordeal so emotional if she hadn't been conceived as it would have been a lot less complicated.
Anyway obviously our opinions differ in this area so I won't go on.

greengirl31 · 01-06-2008 11:12pm

Conar wrote: »

If you continue to accept maintenance off him then he'll probably always have that option.
If you want to cut him loose then maybe you shouldn't accept his money.

Children are a blank canvas and only know what you tell them so if you tell her that its normal to not have a daddy then thats what she'll believe in my opinion.
Listen, so many children have 2 awful parents, your daughter isn't going to suffer from having just one good one.

It might seem that way but perhaps you wouldn't have found this whole ordeal so emotional if she hadn't been conceived as it would have been a lot less complicated.
Anyway obviously our opinions differ in this area so I won't go on.

Yes I know he will always have that option, regardless of paying maintenance or not - as I said in my OP he is her father and I will never stop him from seeing her ... I would prefer in alot of ways if he stayed away but I am only too aware that he can become part of her life at any time. And as for not accepting his money ... I don’t use it for myself .. I need financial assistance to raise our daughter - I don't see why she should suffer or I should be the only to struggle financially because of the situation he put us all in. I don't think I mentioned but my pregnancy wasn't accidental - it was discussed at length and planned.

I also know that children only know what's normal to them but eventually she's going to ask me why she doesn't have a daddy when the girl that sits beside her in school does.... I know this is a few years away yet but I want to be able to answer honestly. And I doubt a child of any age will be able to comprehend this situation when I barely can myself...

And as you say the whole thing may not have been as emotional if I hadn't had my Daughter but it wouldn't have changed the fact that he lied and cheated on me (and his wife) for over 3 years.

However I do welcome all opinions as I try to see this situation as others might ...

Conar · 01-06-2008 11:50pm

greengirl31 wrote: »

Yes I know he will always have that option, regardless of paying maintenance or not - as I said in my OP he is her father and I will never stop him from seeing her ... I would prefer in alot of ways if he stayed away but I am only too aware that he can become part of her life at any time. And as for not accepting his money ... I don’t use it for myself .. I need financial assistance to raise our daughter - I don't see why she should suffer or I should be the only to struggle financially because of the situation he put us all in. I don't think I mentioned but my pregnancy wasn't accidental - it was discussed at length and planned.

Thats low. I assumed it was unplanned.
What kind of an ass reckons he's a born again Christian yet can plan a baby then decide he doesn't want it any more?
If the daughter had been an accident (horrible way of putting it) then I could understand how he might not feel like he should step up and come clean but that's a piss take.
I honestly think you're better off without that kind of influence in your daughters life.

greengirl31 wrote:

I also know that children only know what's normal to them but eventually she's going to ask me why she doesn't have a daddy when the girl that sits beside her in school does.... I know this is a few years away yet but I want to be able to answer honestly. And I doubt a child of any age will be able to comprehend this situation when I barely can myself...

To be honest it is awkward if he's a part time father, I can imagine how that would confuse a child.
If you knew he was never going to be around you could just explain that not everyone has a daddy and that she's lucky to have such a loving mother.
The fact that he may never show up but theres always a chance he might makes it more difficult as you don't want to say he doesn't exist only to have him appear a week later and disappear again.
I think that maybe confronting him and/or his wife would be the way to go.
Make him decide whether he wants to play an active role or not. If not, problem solved.
If he does, or even they do, then you can set about discussing how to make it all work.
If he doesn't want to be a father then just cut all ties. Don't worry, we live in a fairly decent society and the government can subsidise quite heavily if required.

greengirl31 wrote:

And as you say the whole thing may not have been as emotional if I hadn't had my Daughter but it wouldn't have changed the fact that he lied and cheated on me (and his wife) for over 3 years.

Yeah, as I said above thats rough.

greengirl31 wrote:

However I do welcome all opinions as I try to see this situation as others might ...

I guess it all boils down to what you think is best.
Its not a situation I have been in but I can say as a father of 2 kids that I think its best to have stability and consistency in their upbringing.
A kinda is he or isn't he type father isn't a great thing for a child to have to deal with I'd imagine.

On a slightly (barely even slightly) related note my next door neighbour is a single mum and split from her sons father shortly after he was born.
The father was always trying to get back with her but wasn't much of a dad.
She even eventually told him to sling his hook but obviously he was still able to see his son.
He used to come out often enough but never seemed that fond of playing with the son but seemed to want to get back with her.
When she eventually started seeing other people he turned nasty.
Aside from other stuff he announced to the son one day that he wouldn't be seeing him any more unless his mammy stopped seeing other men. He was true to his word and didn't show up again until she decided to try moving to Wales with her boyfriend and he all of a sudden couldn't live without his son and got a solicitor involved. She ended up staying in Ireland and once again he's rarely if ever around and it just seems like he's there to see what she's up to now. Not to see or play with his son.

I'm not saying that you're story will play out anything like this, far from it, but I do think that you have to bear in mind that not every man will make a good father and sometimes you're better off without them. Lets be honest he hasn't exactly proven himself so far.

PDN · 02-06-2008 1:00am

Conar wrote: »

Thats low. I assumed it was unplanned.
What kind of an ass reckons he's a born again Christian yet can plan a baby then decide he doesn't want it any more?

To be fair, as the situation has been described in the OP he became a born again Christian after the child was conceived. He's still an ass, of course.

Conar · 02-06-2008 1:09am

PDN wrote: »

To be fair, as the situation has been described in the OP he became a born again Christian after the child was conceived. He's still an ass, of course.

True, but still surely you would expect someone who decides to be a born again Christian to have more of a moral backbone and stand by his mistakes?
I'm not saying his daughter is a mistake to be clear, but he obviously seems to believe that he made a flawed decision as he is refusing to follow through.

I'm not trying to turn this into a religious debate, I don't know much about born agains, BUT I would assume that it involves some level of responsibility for past actions and can't be used as a means to wipe the slate clean on all previous actions?
I suspect this man is more of an ass than anything else and is using his religion as some sort of excuse for his actions.

Asiaprod · 02-06-2008 1:24am

Conar wrote: »

Children are a blank canvas and only know what you tell them so if you tell her that its normal to not have a daddy then thats what she'll believe in my opinion.
Listen, so many children have 2 awful parents, your daughter isn't going to suffer from having just one good one.

Very wise words, very true words. I do know:pac:

A cautionary note is in order to all here, my apologies. This is a very nice thread and a lot of good has come from it. Don't let it slip into an online attack against the Born-Again Ass". IMOP, its no the direction to bring it. PDN made a valid point when he said this re-discovery happened after the fact. Every Ass has within the potential for change.
Asia

greengirl31 · 02-06-2008 9:59am

Asiaprod wrote: »

Very wise words, very true words. I do know:pac:

A cautionary note is in order to all here, my apologies. This is a very nice thread and a lot of good has come from it. Don't let it slip into an online attack against the Born-Again Ass". IMOP, its no the direction to bring it. PDN made a valid point when he said this re-discovery happened after the fact. Every Ass has within the potential for change.
Asia

Well he told me he became born again but he didn't specify when and I didn't ask but looking back he was acting strangly before our Daughter was conceived so he may have become born again before conception ... I can't be sure though ...

I wouldn't dare suggest that all born agains are like him ... My reason for posting here was to see, like conar said, if he was using his religion to justify his appaling bahaviour ... and if his religion would allow him to do so ... I didn't think any christian religion would but I just wanted to check ...

Asiaprod · 02-06-2008 4:32pm

greengirl wrote:

I wouldn't dare suggest that all born agains are like him ... My reason for posting here was to see, like conar said, if he was using his religion to justify his appaling bahaviour ... and if his religion would allow him to do so ... I didn't think any christian religion would but I just wanted to check ...

The cautionary note is not aimed at you, but at everyone since I too would like to know if he was using his religion to justify his appaling bahaviour ... and if his religion would allow him to do so.
The answer to the first question IMO is probably yes, but not to justify since I don't think it can be justified. Rather his religion was used as a socially accepted method to remove any guilt he was feeling. I believe that the answer to the latter question will be No they would not allow him.

Splendour · 02-06-2008 8:46pm

Gosh, I'm so angry reading this and sorry if I sound judgmental but Jesus said in Matthew 23:

Jesus said in Matthew 27"Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You are like whitewashed tombs, which look beautiful on the outside but on the inside are full of dead men's bones and everything unclean. 28In the same way, on the outside you appear to people as righteous but on the inside you are full of hypocrisy and wickedness.

This guy might be born again but I seriously wonder about where his heart is? If he is a genuine believer he would confess and come clean with everyone involved in this awful situation. After all God knows his situation so why hide it from anyone else. If it were my husband and I found out in a few years of what he'd done I would seriously question his relationship with God and eith me. I have back flashes of Fr. Michael Cleary here-the man's a coward...

Conar · 02-06-2008 9:11pm

Splendour wrote: »

Gosh, I'm so angry reading this and sorry if I sound judgmental but Jesus said in Matthew 23:

Jesus said in Matthew 27"Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You are like whitewashed tombs, which look beautiful on the outside but on the inside are full of dead men's bones and everything unclean. 28In the same way, on the outside you appear to people as righteous but on the inside you are full of hypocrisy and wickedness.

This guy might be born again but I seriously wonder about where his heart is? If he is a genuine believer he would confess and come clean with everyone involved in this awful situation. After all God knows his situation so why hide it from anyone else. If it were my husband and I found out in a few years of what he'd done I would seriously question his relationship with God and eith me. I have back flashes of Fr. Michael Cleary here-the man's a coward...

^^^^ Exactly!

Thats what I was trying to get across but obviously my heathen ways don't provide me with the relevant ammo

Splendour · 02-06-2008 9:23pm

Conar wrote: »

^^^^ Exactly!

Thats what I was trying to get across but obviously my heathen ways don't provide me with the relevant ammo

Though your/our heathen ways matter, it's where your heart is that really matters. And in this incident, I think your heart was in the right place.
Now if you could only apply that to a belief in God...

greengirl31 · 02-06-2008 11:01pm

Thank you all again very much for your replies - they've been a great help to me.

I suppose I was feeling angry because I thought that he was able to justify what he did because he became born again - that because of his religious beliefs he could go to his priest, say he's sorry and hey presto all his past wrong doings and their consequenses would vanish and he was allowed to live his life like nothing had happened while he left my life in tattetrs and not to mention the effect his actions will have on our daughter.

Over the last few months I have believed he was a coward using his beliefs as a shield for his behaviour but I'm glad to see that his religion won't just let him off the hook.

And despite all he's done I don't hate him - I think I feel a little bit sorry for him. He has no Idea what he's missing out on ... Our daughter is a beautiful, happy little girl - her smile and laugh lifts my spirit like nothing else ever did. She is by far, the best thing that ever happened to me and I count my blessings every day. There are times that I still grieve for the
happy ever after we were going to have but obviously it wasn't ment to be....

I know I'm not the greatest christian on the planet , I can't rhyme off passages from the bible and if I'm honest I'd be hard pressed to list the 10 commandments correctly. But I do know the difference between right and wrong and I try to do the right thing - I don't always manage it but I try - I think that's what matters ...

Fanny Cradock · 02-06-2008 11:44pm

In many respects it's a sad story greengirl, there is so much deceit upon his part. But it already has had a very happy consequence, and who knows what will come to pass in time. There might be a happy twist or two yet to come. In your posts you have shown yourself to be brave and morally strong, and you should be applauded you for that. I wish you and your beautiful daughter all the best in the life you make together.

Born Again Christians and Illegitimate children

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