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Is Jesus about to return?

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Comments

  • #52
    all the stars
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,058 ✭✭✭all the stars


    PDN wrote: »
    Because, when Jesus was lying in the grave, "He hadn't gone away you know" (to paraphrase Gerry Adams).
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by PDN viewpost.gif
    Oh, don't worry, He will raise the non-Christian as well. However, I don't think you will like what happens next ......

    God is starting to sound worse and worse with these type of posts... why cant we all go to summerland (pagan place that is)- that sounds nicer to me, no evil entity or lake of fire..

    So, he pulls up the Buddist monks (as i asked earlier and nobody replied) He throws them into hell? yes or no?


    any answer?


  • #53
    Zombrex
    Closed Accounts Posts: 25,848 ✭✭✭✭Zombrex


    PDN wrote: »
    I certainly do. If I had a choice between having Tom's money and fame, but also his broken marriage, I'd value my very happy and successful marriage much higher.

    I certainly am not claiming to be the happiest person on earth, but my experience is that the Christian life is exciting and fulfilling. Much more fun than speed!

    I don't know, Tom Cruise looks pretty freaking happy!!!

    2007-06-26TomCruise.jpg

    Shows how happy picking the right religion can make you :pac:


  • #54
    PDN
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,686 ✭✭✭✭PDN


    SDooM wrote: »
    What do you think will happen to those who have been incinerated, etc?
    all the stars wrote:
    Hadn't thought of that!

    Most Christians I talk to have thought of that.

    Incinerated or buried, I don't think it makes much difference. After a few years of being worm food in the ground then there's not that much difference anyway. Our resurrection body will be a new glorious body, and that will hardly be a problem for an omnipotent God. Therefore it doesn't matter whether you are buried, incinerated, eaten by a shark etc.


  • #55
    Akrasia
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,597 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    PDN wrote: »
    Probably a few little clues will give the game away. Things like every eye seeing Him coming in glory, the dead being raised from their graves etc.

    So there'll be Zombies????

    man I hate them.


  • #56
    Tim Robbins
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,009 ✭✭✭Tim Robbins


    Wicknight wrote: »
    I don't know, Tom Cruise looks pretty freaking happy!!!

    2007-06-26TomCruise.jpg

    Shows how happy picking the right religion can make you :pac:

    Correct, his religion don't even need psychiatry.


  • #57
    Doctor DooM
    Moderators, Music Moderators Posts: 25,868 Mod ✭✭✭✭Doctor DooM


    PDN wrote: »
    Most Christians I talk to have thought of that.

    Incinerated or buried, I don't think it makes much difference. After a few years of being worm food in the ground then there's not that much difference anyway. Our resurrection body will be a new glorious body, and that will hardly be a problem for an omnipotent God. Therefore it doesn't matter whether you are buried, incinerated, eaten by a shark etc.

    So in that case, heaven becomes a physical realm in the end times?


  • #58
    Zombrex
    Closed Accounts Posts: 25,848 ✭✭✭✭Zombrex


    PDN wrote: »
    Our resurrection body will be a new glorious body, and that will hardly be a problem for an omnipotent God.

    What will it look like? What age will you be? Is it the body you had when you died? Can you have a different body if you want (eg can a transexual come back as a women instead of a man?)


  • #59
    Akrasia
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,597 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    PDN wrote: »
    I think the OP is referring to "those who destroy the earth" and applying it to climate change - a fair point IMHO.
    Those who destroy the earth in relation to Climate change is basically, everyone.

    (and especially every consumer living in western society (I don't include people like the homeless and extreme environmentalists whose ecological footprint is negligable)


  • #60
    Doctor DooM
    Moderators, Music Moderators Posts: 25,868 Mod ✭✭✭✭Doctor DooM


    Akrasia wrote: »
    Those who destroy the earth in relation to Climate change is basically, everyone.

    (and especially every consumer living in western society (I don't include people like the homeless and extreme environmentalists whose ecological footprint is negligable)

    That's a good point.

    Anyone who has been in a plane has done significant damage to the planet.


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  • #61
    PDN
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,686 ✭✭✭✭PDN


    Akrasia wrote: »
    So there'll be Zombies????

    man I hate them.

    Depends on how creative you want to be with language (or how keen you are on trolling).

    Most definitions or understandings of Zombie include at least one of the following traits which do not apply to the Christian resurrection:
    1. A dead body is raised from the grave but still corrupted.
    2. A dead body is raised but lacks the mental and reasoning powers the person possessed before they died.
    3. A witch doctor would raise a zombie to be an unwilling slave.
    4. A dead person rises from the grave to gain revenge against an enemy.

    Anyone trollish enough to start calling Jesus a zombie will earn a ban.


  • #62
    Akrasia
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,597 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    PDN wrote: »
    No, he does not appear to be quoting verbatim. In biblical studies, as in other academic fields, you insert words in quotation marks if you are quoting them verbatim. If you are just referring to concepts contained in a text then you still reference your source with a footnote or in brackets, but no quotation marks.

    This convention, which should be familiar to anyone who has ever written an essay, is also commonly observed when Christians discuss the Bible in non-academic books, magazines or internet message boards.

    No linguistic engineering - just standard English usage.
    You don't paraphrase something in a leading way when there can be multiple interpretations of the original source. That is misleading.

    It would be a bit like me taking Proudhon's quote of "Property is Theft" and paraphrasing it to say "owning a toothbrush is wrong"


  • #63
    PDN
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,686 ✭✭✭✭PDN


    SDooM wrote: »
    So in that case, heaven becomes a physical realm in the end times?

    Correct. That would be consistent with the Biblical teaching concerning a new heaven and a new earth. The Christian concept of heaven is not about disembodied entities floating around like Casper the Friendly Ghost, nor is it about people sprouting wings from their backs as in Philadelphia cheese adverts.


  • #64
    Akrasia
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,597 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    PDN wrote: »
    Most Christians I talk to have thought of that.

    Incinerated or buried, I don't think it makes much difference. After a few years of being worm food in the ground then there's not that much difference anyway. Our resurrection body will be a new glorious body, and that will hardly be a problem for an omnipotent God. Therefore it doesn't matter whether you are buried, incinerated, eaten by a shark etc.
    Will we still look like we did before we died? Will ugly people still be ugly? (or will we all be blond and beautiful) Will stephen Hawking be able to walk? What age will our bodies be?
    Whats the point of giving us bodies if we're going to become immaterial spirits?


  • #65
    robindch
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 24,420 Mod ✭✭✭✭robindch


    Wicknight wrote: »
    What will it look like? What age will you be? Is it the body you had when you died? Can you have a different body if you want (eg can a transexual come back as a women instead of a man?)
    I gather the consensus is that you will come back "perfect", though it would be interesting to hear about what this means in practice.

    I'd be intrigued to find out if the religious believe that I'll return from the dead thinking as a christian (presumably what 'perfect' means in my context) enjoying the surroundings, or as a somewhat surprised atheist looking forward to a cleansing molten-sulfer bath.

    Either way, I'd certainly enjoy seeing my pate submerged beneath some hair again.


  • #66
    Akrasia
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,597 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    PDN wrote: »
    Depends on how creative you want to be with language (or how keen you are on trolling).

    Most definitions or understandings of Zombie include at least one of the following traits which do not apply to the Christian resurrection:
    1. A dead body is raised from the grave but still corrupted.
    2. A dead body is raised but lacks the mental and reasoning powers the person possessed before they died.
    3. A witch doctor would raise a zombie to be an unwilling slave.
    4. A dead person rises from the grave to gain revenge against an enemy.

    Anyone trollish enough to start calling Jesus a zombie will earn a ban.
    A zombie is just a re-animated corpse.
    What about the word Undead?

    I don't mean to be trolling, but after christians are saved and when they are in heaven, they will also lack the "mental and reasoning powers they possessed before they died" They will no longer be able to choose to commit a sin, they will no longer be able to rationalise as they did before, and they will be single minded and dedicated to one purpose (not 'Braaaiinsss' but worshiping god)


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  • #67
    PDN
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,686 ✭✭✭✭PDN


    Akrasia wrote: »
    Will we still look like we did before we died? Will ugly people still be ugly? (or will we all be blond and beautiful) Will stephen Hawking be able to walk? What age will our bodies be?
    Whats the point of giving us bodies if we're going to become immaterial spirits?

    We aren't going to be immaterial spirits.

    As for what we will look like - who knows? I hope I'll be thinner.

    I'm looking forward to seeing what my deceased daughter will look like. Will she be a 5-year old child or will she look like she would have if she had lived to adulthood? Will her physical deformities still be obvious? Any answer can only be speculation.


  • #68
    Akrasia
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,597 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    PDN wrote: »
    Correct. That would be consistent with the Biblical teaching concerning a new heaven and a new earth. The Christian concept of heaven is not about disembodied entities floating around like Casper the Friendly Ghost, nor is it about people sprouting wings from their backs as in Philadelphia cheese adverts.

    So we'll all be physical entities, but we'll be immortal? So if A rock falls on me and crushes me, will my legs just instantly repair themselves? or will I have to wait for them to heal like I do now? If a leg is cut off, will it grow back?


    There must be rocks (or some kind of equivalent if there is a physical world, you don't believe we'll live on clouds...)


  • #69
    Akrasia
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,597 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    PDN wrote: »
    We aren't going to be immaterial spirits.

    As for what we will look like - who knows? I hope I'll be thinner.

    I'm looking forward to seeing what my deceased daughter will look like. Will she be a 5-year old child or will she look like she would have if she had lived to adulthood? Will her physical deformities still be obvious? Any answer can only be speculation.
    Whats a deformity? There are hermaphrodites who have both sets of sex organs. That feature has a huge effect on their personality and how they feel and think about things. Will God decide to completely change their personality to make them perfect (why did he give them that 'deformity' in the first place?)


  • #70
    all the stars
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,058 ✭✭✭all the stars


    Is God throwing the Buddist Monks into the lake of fire ???


  • #71
    PDN
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,686 ✭✭✭✭PDN


    Akrasia wrote: »
    A zombie is just a re-animated corpse.
    In that case we aren't talking about zombies. The Christian belief in resurrection is that you receive an uncorrupted body, which certainly would not apply to most corpses. Therefore resurrection is much more than re-animation.
    I don't mean to be trolling, but after christians are saved and when they are in heaven, they will also lack the "mental and reasoning powers they possessed before they died" They will no longer be able to choose to commit a sin, they will no longer be able to rationalise as they did before, and they will be single minded and dedicated to one purpose (not 'Braaaiinsss' but worshiping god)
    Worship can certainly involve a lot of mental and reasoning powers. For example, when I play sax in a worship band it involves practising, reading music, improvising solos etc.

    The fact that we have willingly chosen to forfeit the ability to commit sin may well result in much higher and effective use of our rationality.


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  • #72
    PDN
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,686 ✭✭✭✭PDN


    all the stars wrote: »
    Is God throwing the Buddist Monks into the lake of fire ???

    Who knows?

    According to the Bible, those who reject God's offer of salvation will suffer such a fate. As I have said on these boards on a number of occasions, we are not told what happens to those who never heard the message.


  • #73
    PDN
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,686 ✭✭✭✭PDN


    Akrasia wrote: »
    Whats a deformity? There are hermaphrodites who have both sets of sex organs. That feature has a huge effect on their personality and how they feel and think about things. Will God decide to completely change their personality to make them perfect (why did he give them that 'deformity' in the first place?)

    I don't believe God gives anyone deformities. Some are a result of human sin. For others we simply don't know why it happens.

    I've already said that I don't know if deformities will still exist in our resurrected bodies or not. That belongs to the realm of speculation, not revealed truth.


  • #74
    Ekancone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,553 ✭✭✭Ekancone


    PDN wrote: »
    I don't believe God gives anyone deformities. Some are a result of human sin. For others we simply don't know why it happens.

    Its actually neither. But we won't get into the science of such things.


  • #75
    Zombrex
    Closed Accounts Posts: 25,848 ✭✭✭✭Zombrex


    PDN wrote: »
    As for what we will look like - who knows? I hope I'll be thinner.
    What if the point of saying we will have a "new glorious body" if you have no idea what that actually means?


  • #76
    StormWarrior
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,577 ✭✭✭StormWarrior


    Don't have time to read all the posts so don't know if this has already been mentioned, but some New Age adherents believe that rather than coming back as a person, when Jesus returns it will be in the form of "Christ consciouness" meaning the people of the world will begin to develop a consciouness similar to Jesus'.


  • #77
    BrianCalgary
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,196 ✭✭✭BrianCalgary


    StormWarrior wrote: »
    Don't have time to read all the posts so don't know if this has already been mentioned, but some New Age adherents believe that rather than coming back as a person, when Jesus returns it will be in the form of "Christ consciouness" meaning the people of the world will begin to develop a consciouness similar to Jesus'.

    i'd like to know where people get this idea as the Bible is quite clear on the topic.

    Matthew 24:30
    "At that time the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and all the nations of the earth will mourn. They will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of the sky, with power and great glory.

    Matthew 26:64
    "Yes, it is as you say," Jesus replied. "But I say to all of you: In the future you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Mighty One and coming on the clouds of heaven."

    Mark 13:26
    "At that time men will see the Son of Man coming in clouds with great power and glory.

    Mark 14:62
    "I am," said Jesus. "And you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Mighty One and coming on the clouds of heaven."

    Revelation 1:7
    Look, he is coming with the clouds, and every eye will see him, even those who pierced him; and all the peoples of the earth will mourn because of him. So shall it be! Amen.


  • #78
    Akrasia
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,597 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    BrianCalgary wrote: »
    i'd like to know where people get this idea as the Bible is quite clear on the topic.

    Matthew 24:30
    "At that time the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and all the nations of the earth will mourn. They will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of the sky, with power and great glory.

    Matthew 26:64
    "Yes, it is as you say," Jesus replied. "But I say to all of you: In the future you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Mighty One and coming on the clouds of heaven."

    Mark 13:26
    "At that time men will see the Son of Man coming in clouds with great power and glory.

    Mark 14:62
    "I am," said Jesus. "And you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Mighty One and coming on the clouds of heaven."

    Revelation 1:7
    Look, he is coming with the clouds, and every eye will see him, even those who pierced him; and all the peoples of the earth will mourn because of him. So shall it be! Amen.
    so heaven is in the clouds then?


  • #79
    Ekancone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,553 ✭✭✭Ekancone


    Akrasia wrote: »
    so heaven is in the clouds then?

    No, I'm sure there is some vague, ambiguous reason for heaven not being in the actual clouds, even though people back then clearly believed this and they were the ones in direct contact with the big 'G' man himself.


  • #80
    Zombrex
    Closed Accounts Posts: 25,848 ✭✭✭✭Zombrex


    BrianCalgary wrote: »
    i'd like to know where people get this idea as the Bible is quite clear on the topic.

    Matthew 24:30
    "At that time the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and all the nations of the earth will mourn. They will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of the sky, with power and great glory.

    Matthew 26:64
    "Yes, it is as you say," Jesus replied. "But I say to all of you: In the future you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Mighty One and coming on the clouds of heaven."

    Mark 13:26
    "At that time men will see the Son of Man coming in clouds with great power and glory.

    Mark 14:62
    "I am," said Jesus. "And you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Mighty One and coming on the clouds of heaven."

    Revelation 1:7
    Look, he is coming with the clouds, and every eye will see him, even those who pierced him; and all the peoples of the earth will mourn because of him. So shall it be! Amen.

    How is any of that "clear" ... God has literal hands now does he, and he comes in riding clouds?

    I would imagine very few Christians take those passages literally.


  • #81
    Galvasean
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 30,746 ✭✭✭✭Galvasean


    Considering a lot of the Bible is supposed to be metaphor, why are you (PDN) so sure this particular bit is to be taken at face value?


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  • #82
    BrianCalgary
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,196 ✭✭✭BrianCalgary


    Wicknight wrote: »
    How is any of that "clear" ... God has literal hands now does he, and he comes in riding clouds?

    I would imagine very few Christians take those passages literally.

    Whereas I know of no Christian that does not take these passages literally. It's pretty obvious that when Christ returns He will come on th eclouds where all will see Him.

    To Akrasia: No heaven is not in the clouds. If it was we would have seen it by now.

    Heaven is a spiritual realm invisible to us in this realm. Jesus came from there when He was born on Earth and He will come again in the clouds.


  • #83
    PDN
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,686 ✭✭✭✭PDN


    Galvasean wrote: »
    Considering a lot of the Bible is supposed to be metaphor, why are you (PDN) so sure this particular bit is to be taken at face value?

    Which particular bit are you talking about?


  • #84
    wolfsbane
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,980 ✭✭✭wolfsbane


    robindch wrote: »
    I gather the consensus is that you will come back "perfect", though it would be interesting to hear about what this means in practice.

    I'd be intrigued to find out if the religious believe that I'll return from the dead thinking as a christian (presumably what 'perfect' means in my context) enjoying the surroundings, or as a somewhat surprised atheist looking forward to a cleansing molten-sulfer bath.

    Either way, I'd certainly enjoy seeing my pate submerged beneath some hair again.
    Perfect as in like Christ's body - recognisable, still bearing the wounds of His execution, able to eat and drink, but able also to move through walls. How exactly that all works out for the individual, it doesn't say. We can take it from the description of 'glorious' that all defect will be gone. I also assume it will mean us in our ideal state - mature adults like Adam & Eve on creation, rather than as babies or very old folk.

    Robin, if you continue in unbelief you will not return from the dead thinking as a christian, enjoying the surroundings, but as your latter description: a somewhat surprised atheist looking forward to a cleansing molten-sulfer bath. Only it won't be cleansing.

    Better to straighten out your thinking now than have it straightened out for you then:
    Mark 8:34 When He had called the people to Himself, with His disciples also, He said to them, “Whoever desires to come after Me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow Me. 35 For whoever desires to save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for My sake and the gospel’s will save it. 36 For what will it profit a man if he gains the whole world, and loses his own soul? 37 Or what will a man give in exchange for his soul? 38 For whoever is ashamed of Me and My words in this adulterous and sinful generation, of him the Son of Man also will be ashamed when He comes in the glory of His Father with the holy angels.”


  • #85
    Galvasean
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 30,746 ✭✭✭✭Galvasean


    PDN wrote: »
    Which particular bit are you talking about?

    The whole Jesus returning on clouds and the dead rising from their graves bit..

    It would make a great movie... Quick, call Michael Bay!


  • #86
    PDN
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,686 ✭✭✭✭PDN


    Galvasean wrote: »
    The whole Jesus returning on clouds and the dead rising from their graves bit..

    It would make a great movie... Quick, call Michael Bay!

    It's clear from the context of the various passages that the New Testament is talking about a literal return of Christ and a literal resurrection from the dead.

    The Bible contains parables, figures of speech, poetery, history, prophecy etc. but in 99% of the cases it's clear which is which from the context - just like in normal speech or when you're reading the newspaper.


  • #87
    Splendour
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,580 ✭✭✭Splendour


    PDN wrote: »
    We aren't going to be immaterial spirits.

    As for what we will look like - who knows? I hope I'll be thinner.

    I'm looking forward to seeing what my deceased daughter will look like. Will she be a 5-year old child or will she look like she would have if she had lived to adulthood? Will her physical deformities still be obvious? Any answer can only be speculation.


    You brought a tear to my eye with this PDN. I wonder about my baby that died and how old she will be in Heaven. Though she was just eleven and a half hours old when she died, I too wonder about how she will be in Heaven. I don't worry about her physical deformities as I imagine when God creates his new heaven and earth it will be perfect just as it was originally meant to be.
    I had a dream a couple of years ago about my daughter in which she and I were laughing and dancing together and it gave me huge encouragement...


  • #88
    Zombrex
    Closed Accounts Posts: 25,848 ✭✭✭✭Zombrex


    BrianCalgary wrote: »
    Whereas I know of no Christian that does not take these passages literally.

    You must know some wacky Christians. Have they actually thought about how Jesus would literally "ride a cloud" ... do they know what clouds actually are?
    BrianCalgary wrote: »
    It's pretty obvious that when Christ returns He will come on th eclouds where all will see Him.

    All will see Him? Literally? How does that work?


  • #89
    TravelJunkie
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 438 ✭✭TravelJunkie


    Wicknight wrote: »
    How is any of that "clear" ... God has literal hands now does he, and he comes in riding clouds?

    I would imagine very few Christians take those passages literally.

    Riding a cloud? I like your metaphoric descriptions.
    Maybe.... When he comes down he is in his body (ie. not a vision or anything like that) and on that day it happens to be cloudy. Now all you have to do is dedicate your time to watch the weather around Israel. Ps. Nations will be gathered in Israel when He comes.. so I'm going to place my bets that He's coming when there is some kind of military invasion involving all the world around Land of Israel. When I see everyone invading,, well, I better make sure I'm ready.


  • #90
    Bduffman
    Registered Users Posts: 520 ✭✭✭Bduffman


    If hes coming down on the clouds then Ireland must be one of the most likely places for that. We have plenty of clouds here.


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  • #91
    Ekancone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,553 ✭✭✭Ekancone


    TravelJunkie wrote: »
    When I see everyone invading,, well, I better make sure I'm ready.

    How will you be ready?


  • #92
    TravelJunkie
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 438 ✭✭TravelJunkie


    I'll do a kelly and confess all my sins. ;-)

    I don't know, hopefully I'll be in a good place spiritually speaking.


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