Ministers may buy Dublin/Belfast trains

Slice · 27-01-2008 12:07pm #1

Ministers on both sides of the Border are considering whether they should buy new trains for the Belfast to Dublin railway line.

Stormont MLAs were told Translink and Iarnród Éireann have asked for money to replace existing stock.

The North's Transport Minister Conor Murphy revealed they also want to expand their fleet on the busy cross-Border Enterprise service as part of plans to increase its frequency and reduce journey times.

The governments are pressing to reduce the journey times between both cities from two hours five minutes to one hours 40 minutes.

Mr Murphy confirmed both companies were preparing a business case for the renewed investment to be considered as early as May.

"It has been accepted and proven that where we have made investments in public transport - in railways, in the tracks and the rolling stock- that it has improved the service and has also improved the uptake of the service and passenger numbers have increased," he said.

Mr Murphy said the governments were approached about money for the new fleet at last month's meeting of the North South Ministerial Council (NSMC) Transport Sector in Trim. Co Meath.

Minister for Transport Noel Dempsey and Stormont Environment Minister Arlene Foster held talks with operators about improving the Enterprise service.

"In the longer term interests, on environmental issues - in reducing our carbon footprint - we want to attract more and more passengers onto public transport - onto railway," Mr Murphy told the Assembly. "So I think we will continue to make the case for investment."

The Newry And Armagh MP said the business case for the new trains could be ready by the next NSMC Transport meeting in May.

RadioCity · 27-01-2008 12:24pm

I saw freshly painted Enterprise trains about recently.
Were the insides recently refurbished also?

Ham'nd'egger · 27-01-2008 2:33pm

RadioCity wrote: »

I saw freshly painted Enterprise trains about recently.
Were the insides recently refurbished also?

Nope, they were just painted on the outside. Trains will be painted every few years; there is a change in the paint work as well.

It will be interesting to see just how it will be proposed to cut up to 30 minutes off the journey time on the Enterprise. Both cities are chock a block with local services at both ends that often hold up the services; 5 stops en route add another 10 minutes while the Boyne bridge won't be double tracked and rebuilt anytime soon (It has a 5MPH speed limit and is single track). Faster locos will do little as much of the service runs at 80-100MPH where safe; the first few issues need to be addressed, particularly additional track capacity in both Dublin and Belfast.

Chris_533976 · 27-01-2008 2:52pm

Good god, how many countries have arguably their two most important cities connected by a rail line with a partial 5mph speed limit

testicle · 27-01-2008 3:23pm

Chris_533976 wrote: »

Good god, how many countries have arguably their two most important cities connected by a rail line with a partial 5mph speed limit

France and Spain, on the Barcelona/Paris/Rome line at Cerbere/Portbou...

It still has a border with gates and the like. The train stops for about 10 minutes.

Ham'nd'egger · 27-01-2008 3:36pm

Chris_533976 wrote: »

Good god, how many countries have arguably their two most important cities connected by a rail line with a partial 5mph speed limit

Many railway bridges the world over have low speed limits on them; this is for safely reasons. It is a hinderance to the line speeds but unavoidable without closing the line to build a new bridge from scratch.

KC61 · 27-01-2008 4:04pm

Hamndegger wrote: »

Nope, they were just painted on the outside. Trains will be painted every few years; there is a change in the paint work as well.

It will be interesting to see just how it will be proposed to cut up to 30 minutes off the journey time on the Enterprise. Both cities are chock a block with local services at both ends that often hold up the services; 5 stops en route add another 10 minutes while the Boyne bridge won't be double tracked and rebuilt anytime soon (It has a 5MPH speed limit and is single track). Faster locos will do little as much of the service runs at 80-100MPH where safe; the first few issues need to be addressed, particularly additional track capacity in both Dublin and Belfast.

I think you're getting mixed up between the Shannon bridge at Carrick-on-Shannon which is 5mph restricted (due to be replaced), and the Boyne viaduct which has a 30mph restriction.

Ham'nd'egger · 27-01-2008 4:40pm

KC61 wrote: »

I think you're getting mixed up between the Shannon bridge at Carrick-on-Shannon which is 5mph restricted (due to be replaced), and the Boyne viaduct which has a 30mph restriction.

Sorry, KC, the Boyne Viaduct is indeed 30MPH on the bridge both ways. Must research and memorise harder the next time:o

jjbrien · 28-01-2008 12:27am

I would also hope that when they are thinking up of there Business Plan that they put the enterprise service opperating into Belfast Great Victoria St instead of central I remeber a few years back when cental was been done up the trains were going in and out of Great Victoria St it was much handier as it was a faster walk to city hall and you could also catch a bus to bring you onto your final destionation if your final jourey was not city centre belfast.

ardmacha · 28-01-2008 2:06am

France and Spain, on the Barcelona/Paris/Rome line at Cerbere/Portbou... It still has a border with gates and the like. The train stops for about 10 minutes.

Is a change of gauge not required here, perhaps that causes delay.

For the Enterprise additional track for local trains is needed at either end.

Red Alert · 28-01-2008 9:48am

New control cars (or using the same ones as on the cork train) might improve reliability. I gather that IE is finding it harder to swap locos nowadays, so the Head-end Power will burn out more of the enterprise ones going forward.

L1011 · 28-01-2008 10:41am

ardmacha wrote: »

Is a change of gauge not required here, perhaps that causes delay.

For the Enterprise additional track for local trains is needed at either end.

The high speed lines in Spain are 4'8.5" so theres no break of gauge when crossing in to France. The wider Iberian gauge lines are planned to be re-gauged to 4'8.5" also.

ardmacha · 28-01-2008 1:54pm

The high speed lines in Spain are 4'8.5" so theres no break of gauge when crossing in to France

It all seems quite complicated there, various reasons for delay
http://www.bueker.net/trainspotting/stations_cerbere.php

RadioCity · 28-01-2008 7:48pm

There is talk that Great Victoria Street rail station is to have its concourse widened, taking up bus stands 16, 17 and 18 in the Europa Buscentre which I assumed was to alleviate passenger congestion. Maybe that would also help accomodate the Enterprise?
I wonder can any of the platforms there accomodate the Enterprise?

jjbrien · 28-01-2008 8:28pm

RadioCity wrote: »

There is talk that Great Victoria Street rail station is to have its concourse widened, taking up bus stands 16, 17 and 18 in the Europa Buscentre which I assumed was to alleviate passenger congestion. Maybe that would also help accomodate the Enterprise?
I wonder can any of the platforms there accomodate the Enterprise?

yes they can as the enterprise opperated out of there when central was been done up.

Prof_V · 28-01-2008 9:12pm

MYOB wrote: »

The high speed lines in Spain are 4'8.5" so theres no break of gauge when crossing in to France.

I don't think the high-speed line to the border is finished yet - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGV_Perpignan-Figueres says 2009.

Ministers may buy Dublin/Belfast trains

Comments