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Another site damaged by metal detector

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    #32
    cfuserkildare
    Registered Users Posts: 3,574 ✭✭✭cfuserkildare


    slowburner wrote: »
    All of these features can be readily identified by experienced archaeologists without excavation.
    New sites are found with surprising frequency by people who have learnt to read the landscape without poking holes in the ground.
    Many new national monuments have been found by frequent posters in this forum, none of whom used a metal detector.
    It might come as a surprise but one of the most important principles in archaeology is that 'excavation is destruction'.
    This is one of the fundamental differences between the two camps. When a site is intact, there is a vast and fragile quantity of information stored about the lives of past people. So much can be inferred from the type and frequency of beetles present on site, for example. Or seeds - the staple food of life in the past. Or oxidised soil - a sure sign of activity as much as fire reddened stones.
    These are the things that really inform us about the past. Not trinkets shoplifted from a hole in the ground. Those trinkets tell us nothing except that there was a site here once and now it can't tell us a fraction of the story.
    So we see an 'earthed' site as safe and preserved until technique, technology and good reason allow excavation. A site is not lost because it is underground.


    The biggest problem that we face now, even more relevant than the damage being done by metal detectorists, is that currently very little of anything is being done in regard to excavations. I am still waiting to hear back from the NMS about a report I made 2 years ago, they know about it, but have still not sent anyone to look at it. even after 2 reports to the Gardai and numerous calls and emails to NMS themselves.


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    #33
    baaba maal
    Registered Users Posts: 772 ✭✭✭baaba maal


    cfuserkildare wrote: »
    The biggest problem that we face now, even more relevant than the damage being done by metal detectorists, is that currently very little of anything is being done in regard to excavations. I am still waiting to hear back from the NMS about a report I made 2 years ago, they know about it, but have still not sent anyone to look at it. even after 2 reports to the Gardai and numerous calls and emails to NMS themselves.

    I agree with the point about excavations (I involved myself in trying to find out what had happened at Rathmore), but in my opinion both the metal detecting AND the resources available to the relevant authorities are problems. I don't think it's possible to rate them against each other. I would strongly suspect that if metal detecting were to be tolerated in this country (in the way that it is in the UK) there would undoubtedly be an increase in irresponsible detecting leading to further damage.

    As an aside, with regards to the Viking objects in the OPs original post, my reading of it was that an archaeologist was summoned after the first few objects were lifted. Therefore there was contextual information potentially lost and the archaeological dig was carried out to "clear out" the rest of the finds. We aren't talking about some sort of planned excavation by a partnership of archaeologists and detectorists with a good methodology established at the outset- just a forced removal of objects to prevent them being robbed or damaged by the original disturbance.


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    #34
    Maudi
    Registered Users Posts: 1,516 ✭✭✭Maudi


    baaba maal wrote: »
    I agree with the point about excavations (I involved myself in trying to find out what had happened at Rathmore), but in my opinion both the metal detecting AND the resources available to the relevant authorities are problems. don't think it's possible to rate them against each other. I would strongly suspect that if metal detecting were to be tolerated in this country (in the way that it is in the UK) there would undoubtedly be an increase in irresponsible detecting leading to further damage.

    As an aside, with regards to the Viking objects in the OPs original post, my reading of it was that an archaeologist was summoned after the first few objects were lifted. Therefore there was contextual information potentially lost and the archaeological dig was carried out to "clear out" the rest of the finds. We aren't talking about some sort of planned excavation by a partnership of archaeologists and detectorists with a good methodology established at the outset- just a forced removal of objects to prevent them being robbed or damaged by the original disturbance.

    You are almost describing the way the NRA carry out digs here as soon as they announce a new route..."just the forced removal of objects to prevent them being robbed or damaged by the original disturbance"


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    #35
    baaba maal
    Registered Users Posts: 772 ✭✭✭baaba maal


    Maudi wrote: »
    You are almost describing the way the NRA carry out digs here as soon as they announce a new route..."just the forced removal of objects to prevent them being robbed or damaged by the original disturbance"

    Well I did say previously that I disagreed with a lot of the "rescue" archaeology done (and in some cases for motorways that have never realised the traffic volumes for which they were rushed to conclusion). But that, as they say, is another story.


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    #36
    RDM_83 again
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,116 ✭✭✭RDM_83 again


    Meathlass wrote: »
    Have to agree with slowburner above.

    Our local heritage group have been looking at the Lidar images for our area. We've discovered 4 previously unknown sites and discovered that one of our national monument sites is much more complex and important than previously thought.

    Sorry for taking the thread of topic but any tips on finding sites using Lidar, I've the pleasure of working with a high resolution dataset at the minute (0.5 m resolution) and what I currently do is just create a hillshade and bump the Z axis to bring out the verticals.


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    #37
    Meathlass
    Registered Users Posts: 3,023 ✭✭✭Meathlass


    RDM_83 again wrote: »
    Sorry for taking the thread of topic but any tips on finding sites using Lidar, I've the pleasure of working with a high resolution dataset at the minute (0.5 m resolution) and what I currently do is just create a hillshade and bump the Z axis to bring out the verticals.

    No tips as such, we've just been playing around with various options to bring out the resolution. There's an incredible amount of detail but luckily we have a geologist looking over stuff for us and he's been able to rule out lots of 'features'


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