UFO Phenomenon - Any real scientific material

easychair · 21-07-2011 12:09pm

jonbravo wrote: »

It is also suggested that many of the female abductees for example are reliving an incident from childhood{keepin the incident hidden from this thread. PM}.but you'll find information below.
One of the leading experts in abductees was professor john mack http://www.johnemackinstitute.org/.
The authorities of Harvard launched an inquiry into his conduct in 1995 on the back of some controversail views.

The interesting thing about spacecraft is that, before the advent of aircraft, they were unknown. It may just be a curious coincidence, but did anyone ever ask themselves why that should be? How come we have no stories of spacecraft from the middle ages, or from Victorian times?

It may well be that some people have, indeed, been abducted and returned to tell their stories. It may well be that some people who claim to be Jesus Christ, or whoever else it is they claim to be, really believe they are who they claim to be.

I am a sceptic and also note the lack of objective proof of spacecraft or aliens. While the subject is full of anecdote and people making claims, what is obvious if the lack of any objective evidence, apart from poor quality grainy films from which its not possible to make much out at all.

gbee · 22-07-2011 3:00pm

easychair wrote: »

The interesting thing about spacecraft is that, before the advent of aircraft, they were unknown. .

As you hinted at, some events that we today rate as UFO with possible aliens from another planet would have been reported in the past as other phenomena, take your pick, werewolf, abominable snowmen, religious visions, chariots in the sky, sun at night, night clouds, and of course Gods of all types.

You call things by their contemporary meaning.

Thereafter we have induced corroboration and there will be many people who claim to have seen them. The now common grey aliens who would have been demons if seen by a Victorian and Priest AND Vicar called to exercise them.

So there is that trap, and what people either believe or connive, the stigmata are classical cases of people taking incorrect factual material and manifest this physically in all it's inaccurately.

But, the causal factors can be linked and the Jesus story, if told to a modern day but region free 12 year old boy or girl, could easily recount the story as an alien abduction case and the Jesus being the offspring of aliens.

jonbravo · 23-07-2011 3:31am

gbee wrote: »

As you hinted at, some events that we today rate as UFO with possible aliens from another planet would have been reported in the past as other phenomena, take your pick, werewolf, abominable snowmen, religious visions, chariots in the sky, sun at night, night clouds, and of course Gods of all types.

You call things by their contemporary meaning.

Thereafter we have induced corroboration and there will be many people who claim to have seen them. The now common grey aliens who would have been demons if seen by a Victorian and Priest AND Vicar called to exercise them.

So there is that trap, and what people either believe or connive, the stigmata are classical cases of people taking incorrect factual material and manifest this physically in all it's inaccurately.

But, the causal factors can be linked and the Jesus story, if told to a modern day but region free 12 year old boy or girl, could easily recount the story as an alien abduction case and the Jesus being the offspring of aliens.

all i can ask anyone to do is think about the question more,.... the pros and cons..of the answer.and put forward your own theory on the matter.
but yes i agree on some of your points.

Standman · 23-07-2011 3:30pm

Why not just say they are future human time travelling tourists?

Gremlin · 26-07-2011 12:44pm

Standman wrote: »

Why not just say they are future human time travelling tourists?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-14289114

gbee · 26-07-2011 5:42pm

OK then, Why not just say they are future human wormhole travelling tourists?

steddyeddy · 27-07-2011 7:39pm

In fairness if I throw a brick past someone who doesnt notice what it is thats a ufo so we need a set description other than flying and unidentified.

easychair · 27-07-2011 8:05pm

gbee wrote: »

So there is that trap, and what people either believe or connive,

Isn't that the crux of the matter. If you have evidence, there is no need to "believe". I don't "believe", for example, that paracetamol "works", because we have actual evidence to "know" it works.

gbee · 27-07-2011 8:39pm

easychair wrote: »

Isn't that the crux of the matter. If you have evidence, there is no need to "believe". I don't "believe", for example, that paracetamol "works", because we have actual evidence to "know" it works.

Your actual analogy is a studied phenomenon, it probably does not have a place here, but, approximately 30% of patients given placebos actually recover or exhibit the effects of the 'real' drug.

easychair · 28-07-2011 12:18pm

gbee wrote: »

Your actual analogy is a studied phenomenon, it probably does not have a place here, but, approximately 30% of patients given placebos actually recover or exhibit the effects of the 'real' drug.

So forget the analogy and stick to the point.

jonbravo · 30-07-2011 3:29am

i remove my place from this thread for reasons only i know....
best of luck..people

easychair · 01-08-2011 10:26am

jonbravo wrote: »

i remove my place from this thread for reasons only i know....
best of luck..people

How mysterious. Is it not possible to stop contributing to a thread without having to announce the fact? If everyone who stopped contributing to threads to which they had contributed did that, what an odd place this would be! Your "for reasons only i know" is also mysterious and superfluous, and perhaps you like to be a little mysterious..... It's all a bit drama queen tho.

maninasia · 02-08-2011 4:27am

I drank tea instead of coffee this morning...for reasons that only I know.

Thunderdrive · 03-08-2011 1:22pm

I have posted in this thread at this particular point...for reasons only I know :pac:

murrayp4 · 04-08-2011 1:51am

Interesting report...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-14387365

easychair · 04-08-2011 1:14pm

murrayp4 wrote: »

Interesting report...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-14387365

Are you able t tell us what you found interesting, or do you just hope everyone will follow the link? personally, if a poster can't be bothered to take a couple of minutes to say why he found something interesting, i can't be bothered to spend my time wading through links to see if I can guess why the poster found it interesting!

murrayp4 · 04-08-2011 5:04pm

easychair wrote: »

Are you able t tell us what you found interesting, or do you just hope everyone will follow the link? personally, if a poster can't be bothered to take a couple of minutes to say why he found something interesting, i can't be bothered to spend my time wading through links to see if I can guess why the poster found it interesting!

Don't bother then.
And why waste your precious time informing us all that you're not going click on the BBC link...

gbee · 04-08-2011 5:34pm

I went to the link and found it very interesting. I was going to post this earlier but the other reply put me in an odd mood!

easychair · 14-08-2011 1:45pm

murrayp4 wrote: »

Don't bother then.
And why waste your precious time informing us all that you're not going click on the BBC link...

I guess that's a "no" then, and what you found interesting must remain a mystery.

murrayp4 · 18-08-2011 12:13am

Latest MoD files available here: http://ufos.nationalarchives.gov.uk/

EKClarke · 10-10-2011 3:29am

easychair wrote: »

It's notable that UFO's have only been around since the advent of aeroplanes.

If there really is such a thing as UFO's, they would have been around for centuries. Curious that.

I myself am a skeptic and find it highly unlikely if impossible that aliens are visiting Earth but Alexander the Great was attacked by flying machines.

kylith · 12-10-2011 5:47pm

EKClarke wrote: »

I myself am a skeptic and find it highly unlikely if impossible that aliens are visiting Earth but Alexander the Great was attacked by flying machines.

Got any links to that?

ANSI · 15-10-2011 8:56pm

easychair wrote: »

It's notable that UFO's have only been around since the advent of aeroplanes.

If there really is such a thing as UFO's, they would have been around for centuries. Curious that.

Actually before that there were crosses seen in the sky. in fact as people/ technology changed the things that people saw changed

easychair · 17-10-2011 7:51am

ANSI wrote: »

Actually before that there were crosses seen in the sky. in fact as people/ technology changed the things that people saw changed

What do you think the crosses might have been?

maninasia · 17-10-2011 12:36pm

X's on their sides of course.

ANSI · 17-10-2011 12:47pm

easychair wrote: »

What do you think the crosses might have been?

no idea just mentioned that seeing things is not new and what is seen has changed as mankind has developed.

ANSI · 17-10-2011 12:47pm

maninasia wrote: »

X's on their sides of course.

???

Prometheus · 17-08-2012 2:30pm

Really and truly believe that there is some sort of "life" out there. There are too many; stars, planets,universes etc for there not to be. But I believe that they are not visiting and never have for the following reasons:

There is an imaging capturing device in most homes around the world. Footage has been obtained of people getting hit by lightening and other one in a million events. Yet nobody has come forward with clear unambigious and genuine footage of a UFO. Anyone?

How is it that these "craft" have travelled from light distances away, with the corresponding technology to do it, avoiding all the obstacles in its path, to then crash as soon as they reach earth. Anyone?

Why would aliens build the likes of pyramids out of stone, or why even build pyramids?
If they had advanced technology, would they not build with new materials? Anyone?

kylith · 17-08-2012 3:26pm

Petca4 wrote: »

How is it that these "craft" have travelled from light distances away, with the corresponding technology to do it, avoiding all the obstacles in its path, to then crash as soon as they reach earth. Anyone?

They were talking about something like this on QI the other night, it was on Dave, so probably a year old at this point, but anyway. They were talking about the lines in the desert in South America and mentioned that some people think they were landing strips for alien spaceships, and Stephen Fry asked why a spaceship, capable of travelling many light years and navigating the universe, would need some lines scratched on the ground in order to land. Which I think is a good point. I've always wondered why aliens would travel hundreds of light years, a journey which must take generations, unless they've invented some kind of FTL technology, in order to probe some hillbillys rather than to, say, check in with our scientist and see how advanced we are.

Similarly crop circles; some people think they're messages from aliens. Well, if an alien species was intelligent enough to build a ship that could traverse many light years why wouldn't they leave us messages in an Earth language rather than one they know we won't be able to translate? I can just imagine it:

Alien 1: OK, we've reached 'Earth', and it is imperetive that we deliver this message in a way we can be sure will reach, and be understood by, all the humans on this planet. We'd best go talk to one of their leaders.
Alien 2: I dunno, Zurgox. Maybe we should, like, flatten their crops instead, they'll take notice of that.
1: Their crops?
2: Yeah, having their food supply crushed will get their attention.
1: More than if we land on the lawn of this 'White House' of theirs?
2: Totally. All eyes will be on the disruption of the food supply!!
1: Well, I dunno... Get out the Quorgaxian/Human dictionary so we can communicate a succinct message about the danger they face, at least.
2: Was I supposed to bring that? I thought you were looking after that.
1: Great! 400 light years to deliver an urgent message to the humans about their impending doom and no-one thought to bring a dictionary! We definitely can't talk to any Earthian leaders now, we'll look like idiots! Feck it, Quorgaxian writing in a wheat field it is!

gbee · 17-08-2012 4:43pm

murrayp4 wrote: »

And why waste your precious time informing us all that you're not going click on the BBC link...

Because, from Ireland, the Republic bit, access might be denied!

gbee · 17-08-2012 4:47pm

South American lines in the desert are prayer paths worn by people seeing their lucious paradise dying and becoming an infertile desert as they went through climate change.

That civilisation is believed to have gone extinct.

maninasia · 19-08-2012 5:09am

Petca4 wrote: »

Really and truly believe that there is some sort of "life" out there. There are too many; stars, planets,universes etc for there not to be. But I believe that they are not visiting and never have for the following reasons:

There is an imaging capturing device in most homes around the world. Footage has been obtained of people getting hit by lightening and other one in a million events. Yet nobody has come forward with clear unambigious and genuine footage of a UFO. Anyone?

How is it that these "craft" have travelled from light distances away, with the corresponding technology to do it, avoiding all the obstacles in its path, to then crash as soon as they reach earth. Anyone?

Why would aliens build the likes of pyramids out of stone, or why even build pyramids?
If they had advanced technology, would they not build with new materials? Anyone?

So bacteria didn't exist before the invention of microscopes. Is that your point?
Who says they crash? Everybody?
Who says that all UFOs are aliens? Everybody?
Who says that the pyramids were built by aliens? Everybody?
Who says they wouldn't build with new materials? Who says the craft have anybody or anything in them? Everybody?

gbee · 19-08-2012 8:53am

easychair wrote: »

It's notable that UFO's have only been around since the advent of aeroplanes. t.

Not so, the Romans constantly referred to them and we have 10,000 year old wall paintings

monkeysnapper · 19-08-2012 9:24am

I dont really believe anything that i havent seen with my own eyes but i saw a documentry a few months ago called " i know what i saw" he didnt go interviewing skrewed up farmers ' or druged up scum bags. I highly recommend anyone watch that documentry, im not gona put a link up, go find it yourself

Prometheus · 19-08-2012 11:56am

One more item re below, again if we are to believe that these craft have highly advanced propulsion systems; navigation systems, structural systems etc etc.....

WHAT DO THEY NEED LIGHTS FOR!

Petca4 wrote: »

Really and truly believe that there is some sort of "life" out there. There are too many; stars, planets,universes etc for there not to be. But I believe that they are not visiting and never have for the following reasons:

There is an imaging capturing device in most homes around the world. Footage has been obtained of people getting hit by lightening and other one in a million events. Yet nobody has come forward with clear unambigious and genuine footage of a UFO. Anyone?

How is it that these "craft" have travelled from light distances away, with the corresponding technology to do it, avoiding all the obstacles in its path, to then crash as soon as they reach earth. Anyone?

Why would aliens build the likes of pyramids out of stone, or why even build pyramids?
If they had advanced technology, would they not build with new materials? Anyone?

gbee · 19-08-2012 1:14pm

Petca4 wrote: »

WHAT DO THEY NEED LIGHTS FOR!

To see?

I often use the analogy of the Pacific Polynesian tribes who circumnavigated the Pacific islands with no modern tools and often beat modern explorers to other islands using no more than man powered canoe outriggers.

Cpt. Bligh [of the mutiny fame] was hailed a master seaman having done a similar feat that these natives, or savages had been doing for centuries already.

If an alien race was born in space it would probably only know about space flight and terrestrial exploration could very well be as alien to them as the early European explorers investigating the Pacific by sailing boat.

Just a thought.

steddyeddy · 19-08-2012 1:23pm

monkeysnapper wrote: »

I dont really believe anything that i havent seen with my own eyes but i saw a documentry a few months ago called " i know what i saw" he didnt go interviewing skrewed up farmers ' or druged up scum bags. I highly recommend anyone watch that documentry, im not gona put a link up, go find it yourself

In fairness I dont yet believe that aliens are visiting us but Im fairly sure airline and military pilots report them aswell.

Myrddin · 19-08-2012 3:26pm

I would say the majority of alleged UFO sightings, are experimental military type craft etc. The simplest explanation is usually always the likely one & all that.

I do believe in life elsewhere, but I don't think we're being visited by other life forms.

maninasia · 20-08-2012 6:24am

The majority of UFO sightings would be of regular aircraft which are mistakenly unidentified due to unfamiliarity, viewing angles, people's own misconceptions, distance etc.

Only a small portion would be unknown experimental aircraft. Beyond that who knows.

Myrddin · 20-08-2012 9:54am

maninasia wrote: »

The majority of UFO sightings would be of regular aircraft which are mistakenly unidentified due to unfamiliarity, viewing angles, people's own misconceptions, distance etc.

Only a small portion would be unknown experimental aircraft. Beyond that who knows.

Yeah when I said 'majority', I meant something different than the average 'Oh look a light in the sky its a UFO!' type cases.

yosemite_sam · 17-10-2012 12:59am

Seen something this evening whilst driving in Mayo, a very bright metallic object in a clear blue sky for around 30 seconds at 17:40. It was definitely no plane

Myrddin · 17-10-2012 10:38am

yosemite_sam wrote: »

It was definitely no plane

What makes you say that?

yosemite_sam · 17-10-2012 11:15am

EnterNow wrote: »

What makes you say that?

It vanished into thin air, planes do not tend to do that.

Myrddin · 17-10-2012 12:26pm

yosemite_sam wrote: »

It vanished into thin air, planes do not tend to do that.

Not any ones your aware of anyway

Also, I assume your getting at this sighting was of something other worldly? If it could make itself invisible, why would it not stay invisible & that way wouldn't risk being seen?

Was there any cloud coverage that evening? Was it dark out? Was it travelling fast?

gillad · 17-10-2012 1:35pm

EnterNow wrote: »

If it could make itself invisible, why would it not stay invisible & that way wouldn't risk being seen?

Why are you asking Yosemite this question?????
Do you think he knows everything about it now, because he saw it

The other questions you asked are proper questions.

Myrddin · 17-10-2012 1:38pm

gillad wrote: »

The other questions you asked are proper questions.

Oh thank you kind sir for sanctioning my other questions, how gracious of you.

I asked because it doesn't make sense that a craft would make itself visible, when it could simply become invisible does it.

gillad · 17-10-2012 2:07pm

I agree.It doesnt make sense,unidentified flying objects dont make sense

gbee · 17-10-2012 2:15pm

EnterNow wrote: »

I asked because it doesn't make sense that a craft would make itself visible, when it could simply become invisible does it.

Why not? It might need to be at a certain speed or height to make invisibility.

They probably have multiple propulsion systems like a submarine using diesel engines on the surface where it can be seen and electric engines from batteries allows it to dive and become invisible.

gillad · 17-10-2012 2:38pm

This doesnt make sense...These respected men witnessed ufos,why would they lie and risk ridicule?

“Declassified U.S. government documents and the testimony of more than 120 former or retired military personnel have established, beyond doubt, the reality of ongoing UFO incursions at American nuclear weapons sites.”

http://www.veteranstoday.com/2010/09/25/retired-military-personnel-to-confirm-ufo-incursions-at-american-nuclear-weapons-sites/

Myrddin · 17-10-2012 2:50pm

gillad wrote: »

I agree.It doesnt make sense,unidentified flying objects dont make sense

Yeah.

gbee wrote: »

Why not? It might need to be at a certain speed or height to make invisibility.

They probably have multiple propulsion systems like a submarine using diesel engines on the surface where it can be seen and electric engines from batteries allows it to dive and become invisible.

Maybe true, for sure. There could be certain variables that make different things possible or not when it comes to these things.

But the only description we have so far is:

A bright metallic object, that for sure wasn't a plane, because it disappeared. To be even begin to build a theory, I think much much more information is needed.

Was it moving?
Was direction was it moving?
Did it change direction?
If it was so bright, how could you tell it was metallic?
Assuming it was dusk/getting dark {evening}, how could you tell it was metallic?
Did it move at a constant speed?
Was there a sound to it?

gillad wrote: »

This doesnt make sense...These respected men witnessed ufos,why would they lie and risk ridicule?

“Declassified U.S. government documents and the testimony of more than 120 former or retired military personnel have established, beyond doubt, the reality of ongoing UFO incursions at American nuclear weapons sites.”

http://www.veteranstoday.com/2010/09/25/retired-military-personnel-to-confirm-ufo-incursions-at-american-nuclear-weapons-sites/

Yep & the UK declassified documents gave equally weird accounts of high ranking officials etc who reported such things. The one thing about UFO accounts that I find really weird, is such professionals are willing to come out & admit to seeing them.

Maybe though, their security clearance isn't high enough to know about top secret & above man made craft that are capable of such maneuvers. We may never know

UFO Phenomenon - Any real scientific material

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