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Dual end of line wiring

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  • 10-05-2015 6:23pm
    #1
    golf.mk5
    Registered Users Posts: 16 ✭


    Hi,
    Just wondering if anyone can point me to a diagram for dual end of line alarm wiring please. I have a 1070 self installed with hkc shock only sensors on all windows. Apologies if this has been answered elsewhere.


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    #2
    KoolKid
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 24,789 Mod ✭✭✭✭KoolKid


    Here you go.

    https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B6sJTuagSI_iOWRhODkwM2MtZjY3Ny00MjQ0LTgwOGMtYmNhZWY5NGNhNjQ4/edit?usp=docslist_api


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    #3
    golf.mk5
    Registered Users Posts: 16 ✭golf.mk5


    Thanks Koolkid!
    Am I right in saying that as per your drawing, the red from alarm zone on panel is broken through the tamper terminals on each shock while the black is joined all the way through and finally terminated into two 4k7 resistors at the final sensor? Apologies if this is a bit hard to understand. Thanks again, Rob


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    #4
    altor
    Registered Users Posts: 11,640 ✭✭✭✭altor


    This should also help

    www.altor.ie



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    #5
    golf.mk5
    Registered Users Posts: 16 ✭golf.mk5


    Thanks guys for your replies they have been really helpful. The bit I don't exactly get is on Altor's diagram for dual 4k7. Where the black and red are joined at beginning/end of circuit is a bit confusing. Does this mean I have 3 wires connected at the panel? Yellow on its own and black/red joined in the other panel terminal.


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    #6
    altor
    Registered Users Posts: 11,640 ✭✭✭✭altor


    golf.mk5 wrote: »
    Thanks guys for your replies they have been really helpful. The bit I don't exactly get is on Altor's diagram for dual 4k7. Where the black and red are joined at beginning/end of circuit is a bit confusing. Does this mean I have 3 wires connected at the panel? Yellow on its own and black/red joined in the other panel terminal.

    This thread has better diagrams which will answer all your questions :D

    www.altor.ie



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    #7
    KoolKid
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 24,789 Mod ✭✭✭✭KoolKid


    golf.mk5 wrote: »
    Thanks guys for your replies they have been really helpful. The bit I don't exactly get is on Altor's diagram for dual 4k7. Where the black and red are joined at beginning/end of circuit is a bit confusing. Does this mean I have 3 wires connected at the panel? Yellow on its own and black/red joined in the other panel terminal.

    There is one 4k7 resistor that has to be in parallel across the entire alarm zone. Think of the 3rd wire as an extension to the resistor so it will reach across the entire zone. This can be between the first & last sensor/contact , but sometimes lads wire it all the way back to the panel and connect the 2 cables into one side of the zone. Basically if the zone is closed that resistor is shorted out by the contacts & sensors. If the zone is open then the connection must run across the second parallel resistor giving a zone resistance of around 9k4 which will read as zone open.


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    #8
    golf.mk5
    Registered Users Posts: 16 ✭golf.mk5


    Thanks a million Altor and Koolkid all of your replies have been very helpful! Altor- that dual plus single contact diagram is basically what I'm going to do but omitting the mc connections as my sensors are shock only. Koolkid- I think I can picture what you mean and thanks for putting in layman's terms so I can follow!


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    #9
    KoolKid
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 24,789 Mod ✭✭✭✭KoolKid


    Your welcome. If your still stuck come back to us.


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    #10
    altor
    Registered Users Posts: 11,640 ✭✭✭✭altor


    golf.mk5 wrote: »
    Thanks a million Altor and Koolkid all of your replies have been very helpful! Altor- that dual plus single contact diagram is basically what I'm going to do but omitting the mc connections as my sensors are shock only. Koolkid- I think I can picture what you mean and thanks for putting in layman's terms so I can follow!

    Their are loads of diagrams on that thread, if just using the shock dont have the connections going through terminals 1 and 6.

    Any other issues let us know.

    www.altor.ie



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    #11
    golf.mk5
    Registered Users Posts: 16 ✭golf.mk5


    Thanks guys so if I'm not using 1 and 6 on the hkc shock should I also leave 2 empty or link it with the blacks in 4?


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    #12
    altor
    Registered Users Posts: 11,640 ✭✭✭✭altor


    golf.mk5 wrote: »
    Thanks guys so if I'm not using 1 and 6 on the hkc shock should I also leave 2 empty or link it with the blacks in 4?

    1 and 6 are the reed.
    2 and 5 are the shock
    3 and 4 are the tamper.

    If there is no reed on the device you can use 1 and 6 terminals as a junction block.

    www.altor.ie



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    #13
    golf.mk5
    Registered Users Posts: 16 ✭golf.mk5


    No problem I get what you mean now Altor. Thanks a million!


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    #14
    altor
    Registered Users Posts: 11,640 ✭✭✭✭altor


    golf.mk5 wrote: »
    No problem I get what you mean now Altor. Thanks a million!

    No problem, any other questions let us know.

    www.altor.ie



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    #15
    golf.mk5
    Registered Users Posts: 16 ✭golf.mk5


    Hi Altor/Koolkid I'm back again with just one final question that's been wrecking my head all week. I can understand that one leg of the zone from the panel (let's say red) is broken through terminals 3&4 of each of my shock sensors until the final sensor. However, what I'm getting stumped on is the other (black) leg of the zone from the panel. In the diagrams on the thread where the sensors are mc type, the blacks are joined in terminal 5 in the first sensor and carried through to the last sensor. Terminals 1&2 are then bridged at each sensor. I can understand that this is in order to use the reed, but in my case I have no reeds in my sensors. Does this mean that instead of looping the black wire from terminal 5 in each sensor, I should instead be breaking it through the sensor connections (2&5) all the way to the last sensor in order for the head to work? This dual end of line business is tricky but I'd love to be able to fully understand it. Apologies for the long post and thanks again for all of yer help. Rob.


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    #16
    altor
    Registered Users Posts: 11,640 ✭✭✭✭altor


    golf.mk5 wrote: »
    Hi Altor/Koolkid I'm back again with just one final question that's been wrecking my head all week. I can understand that one leg of the zone from the panel (let's say red) is broken through terminals 3&4 of each of my shock sensors until the final sensor. However, what I'm getting stumped on is the other (black) leg of the zone from the panel. In the diagrams on the thread where the sensors are mc type, the blacks are joined in terminal 5 in the first sensor and carried through to the last sensor. Terminals 1&2 are then bridged at each sensor. I can understand that this is in order to use the reed, but in my case I have no reeds in my sensors. Does this mean that instead of looping the black wire from terminal 5 in each sensor, I should instead be breaking it through the sensor connections (2&5) all the way to the last sensor in order for the head to work? This dual end of line business is tricky but I'd love to be able to fully understand it. Apologies for the long post and thanks again for all of yer help. Rob.

    If you are not using the reed, terminals 1 and 6 then they just become spare terminals. The reason for the loop between 1 and 2 is to create a circuit taking in the reed and the shock sensor. If you are not using this set up then just take what you have in terminal 6 and put it in terminal 2 to complete the circuit.

    www.altor.ie



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    #17
    golf.mk5
    Registered Users Posts: 16 ✭golf.mk5


    Thanks Altor that has cleared it up completely! Rob


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    #18
    altor
    Registered Users Posts: 11,640 ✭✭✭✭altor


    golf.mk5 wrote: »
    Thanks Altor that has cleared it up completely! Rob

    No problem Rob, any other questions let us know.

    www.altor.ie



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    #19
    eoghan1985
    Registered Users Posts: 28 ✭eoghan1985


    Sorry to dig up old thread, but I'm just wondering how to check is zone is set up as dual end of line or non end of line, for hkc secure watch panel.

    Mate doing renovations and got new windows and bought new sensors without looking at wiring on old sensors. Now using hkc sensor with Reed and inertia, but dunno what was there before


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    #20
    KoolKid
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 24,789 Mod ✭✭✭✭KoolKid


    Have you engineer access to the panel. If so you can check in zone hardware.
    If not I would take it as non eol.
    Most lads installing HKC don't bother with eol resistors in my experience.


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    #21
    eoghan1985
    Registered Users Posts: 28 ✭eoghan1985


    KoolKid wrote: »
    Have you engineer access to the panel. If so you can check in zone hardware.
    If not I would take it as non eol.
    Most lads installing HKC don't bother with eol resistors in my experience.

    Cheers for getting back to me. Ya I wired them up with EOL resistors and there is no response from panel when door opened etc.
    Is there a way to get into engineers menu without hkc coming out? Or is it just easier to wire without EOL and leave it at that?


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    #22
    KoolKid
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 24,789 Mod ✭✭✭✭KoolKid


    Easier to wire without them.
    Unfortunately we are no longer allowed help you here with engineer codes.


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    #23
    degsie
    Registered Users Posts: 8,729 ✭✭✭degsie


    Noticed this diagram posted earlier...

    408330.JPG

    For 'ALARM device open' the resistors would be in series and not parallel as indicated.


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    #24
    KoolKid
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 24,789 Mod ✭✭✭✭KoolKid


    The zone end of line is in series giving an alarm closed value of 4K7.The alarm resistor is wired in parallel across the alarm contacts /sensors giving an open value of 9K4.
    When the alarm zone is closed this shorts out the parallel resistor returning the value to 4K7.


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    #25
    eoghan1985
    Registered Users Posts: 28 ✭eoghan1985


    KoolKid wrote: »
    Easier to wire without them.
    Unfortunately we are no longer allowed help you here with engineer codes.

    Ah sure I guess he'll have to do without it so.

    Just to double check, to wire without EOL for single sensor, I jump 1-2, panel1 into 3, jump 4-5, 6 back to panel2.

    If there's multiple sensors on zone: jump 1-2 on all, panel1 into 3 of first sensor, 4 into 3 of next sensor and so on. Panel2 to 5 of first sensor, 6 into 5 of next and so on. On last sensor in line one wire from previous sensor into 3, one wire from previous sensor into 5 and jump 4-6.

    (Sorry for written description, on mobile so I can't draw it).


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    #26
    KoolKid
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 24,789 Mod ✭✭✭✭KoolKid


    Mobile myself so I can't really picture it.
    Are you just using one pair back at the panel or have you a second pair for the tamper loop?


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    #27
    eoghan1985
    Registered Users Posts: 28 ✭eoghan1985


    KoolKid wrote: »
    Mobile myself so I can't really picture it.
    Are you just using one pair back at the panel or have you a second pair for the tamper loop?

    Just using one pair at panel.

    Sure I'll draw it tonight when I'm home, might make easier


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    #28
    KoolKid
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 24,789 Mod ✭✭✭✭KoolKid


    If you are just using one pair for alarm into one MC sensor using the sensor and contact then you won't need the 2 middle terminals.
    Wire the pair into sensor and contact terminals on one side and loop out the sensor and contact terminals on the far side.


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    #29
    degsie
    Registered Users Posts: 8,729 ✭✭✭degsie


    KoolKid wrote: »
    The zone end of line is in series giving an alarm closed value of 4K7.The alarm resistor is wired in parallel across the alarm contacts /sensors giving an open value of 9K4.
    When the alarm zone is closed this shorts out the parallel resistor returning the value to 4K7.

    Thanks for the clarification, the 'shunt' resistor (across the contacts) is the 'parallel' resistor referred to in the diagram. The description confused me but it makes sense now.


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    #30
    eoghan1985
    Registered Users Posts: 28 ✭eoghan1985


    KoolKid wrote: »
    If you are just using one pair for alarm into one MC sensor using the sensor and contact then you won't need the 2 middle terminals.
    Wire the pair into sensor and contact terminals on one side and loop out the sensor and contact terminals on the far side.

    Would that not mean you're not using the sensors tamper at all?


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    #31
    KoolKid
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 24,789 Mod ✭✭✭✭KoolKid


    Not on a single pair.
    Have you a second pair spare on the cable?


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