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Conversion Advice VW Transporter

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  • 31-12-2013 2:30pm
    #1
    Crapbag
    Registered Users Posts: 334 ✭✭


    Hi,

    Im looking for some advice from people here who might have some experience with conversions. Particularly around the conversion requirements and the different options out there.

    I see a few threads knocking around. One here on the conversion process from an administration point of view

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056286278

    I also see the requirements for a camper on the revenue site listed here

    http://www.revenue.ie/en/tax/vrt/faqs-vrt.html#section88

    However im not entirely sure as the information appears to be different on varies threads as I believe the regulations have changed in the last 2 years? I have 2 questions around the conversion process really. One on doing a full conversion and one doing a partial conversion. The only reason im considering doing a full conversion is to reduce the cost of annual motor tax and insurance.

    So here is what I want to do and here is my thinking behind it. I already did a "conversion" while I lived in Canada of a Dodge Caravan. It worked perfectly for the type of traveling we were doing. Here are some pics

    Van1.jpg

    Van2.jpg

    Van3.jpg

    Van4.jpg

    Van5.jpg

    The van worked fantastic for what we wanted it to do. We want to have something similar here in Ireland for going around the country and possibly into Europe. So the first obvious question is, why use something as big as a transporter? Well, we are both into outdoor activities and have some gear which wouldn't have fit in the Dodge. We also realised that our conversion does not conform with what would be considered a camper for tax and insurance purposes. So the transporter is a better size for an actual conversion if required.

    Initially I wanted to get the Van taxed commercially which would allow us to use the Van without converting it but it appears that that is a grey area and there are legal implications if we are stopped. I wanted to tax it commercially but insure it privately as we simply couldn't afford to tax it privately every year. The advantage of not 'camper converting' it means I can also transport heavy equipment in it without damaging fixtures. Also it would allow us to use additional seats if we found a crew cab. The great thing about the dodge was that we could pop out the bench easily and use the van for moving stuff or simply put the seats back in and use it normally. Thats kinda what I really want but from a cost perspective, unless I can get the Van commercially taxed. I can't afford it.

    For someone who has done a conversion. What is the minimum amount needed to convert? I assume there is a physical inspection. Im aware that the fixtures (cooking rings & sink) need to be fixed to chassis but honestly speaking I would want to have them somewhat easily removable if I needed to move heavy equipment in the van


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    #2
    Bawnmore
    Registered Users Posts: 1,743 ✭✭✭Bawnmore


    Hi there - did you ever get an answer on this? Offline maybe?

    If not - does anyone here know the answer to above? It may have have gotten buried originally while everyone was waiting to ring in the new year :D

    I'm looking at something similar to what the OP built in Canada, but I'm unsure as to what can and can't be done here.

    As far as I understand it, to be classed as a camper for tax purposes, a vehicle only needs:
    - Bed
    - Seats
    - Table (can be removable and form part of the bed)
    - Fixed cooking facilities
    - Fixed Storage

    But this won't pass as a camper for insurance purposes, as you'll need to go through a camping club or similar to be put on a group policy, for which there are additional requirements (1.8m standing space, sink etc.).

    Does anyone know if a vehicle that's been converted to a camper for tax purposes be insured privately? And if so, would there be a big premium as it's registered as a camper?


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    #3
    Crapbag
    Registered Users Posts: 334 ✭✭Crapbag


    I didn't get an answer but I did go ahead and buy the Van. I do some work as an outdoor instructor from time to time for I got it insured and tax commercially for this year. Next year I will hopefully have the conversion complete and get it tax and insured as a camper.

    I believe the regulation height you mentioned has been eliminated in the past 18 months. My father converted a Mazda Bongo to a camper which does not have the 1.8 metres you mentioned. So that regulation is now gone (just checked, since 01/01/2011). You can now convert a standard commercial without raising the roof.

    Also im not sure that's correct about the insurance. I'll check with my father and let you know


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    #4
    spaceHopper
    Registered Users Posts: 3,970 ✭✭✭spaceHopper


    The 1.8 meter vrt rule is gone but not all insurance companies are happy it insure tin top campers to many people want to get cheap daily drivers


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    #5
    Bawnmore
    Registered Users Posts: 1,743 ✭✭✭Bawnmore


    spaceHopper wrote: »
    The 1.8 meter vrt rule is gone but not all insurance companies are happy it insure tin top campers to many people want to get cheap daily drivers

    This is exactly how I'd understand it to be, and I'm having trouble finding an example of someone who's been through the process (maybe for that very reason in fairness). If a van is converted over to a camper from a tax perspective, can it still be insured privately? Or would it be a case that you'd have an uninsurable camper?


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    #6
    Crapbag
    Registered Users Posts: 334 ✭✭Crapbag


    spaceHopper wrote: »
    The 1.8 meter vrt rule is gone but not all insurance companies are happy it insure tin top campers to many people want to get cheap daily drivers

    Correct. They may even request to do an odometer reading but no one has mentioned that to me yet.

    You can get insurance outside of a camper club. You need to get an engineers report on the conversion which apparently is difficult to get. I don't have that in writing anywhere though


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    #7
    spaceHopper
    Registered Users Posts: 3,970 ✭✭✭spaceHopper


    Crapbag wrote: »
    You can get insurance outside of a camper club. You need to get an engineers report on the conversion which apparently is difficult to get.

    The problems is that I’d say the insurance brokers (and clubs) are sick of people wanting to bolt a caravan to the back of a flatbed truck to get a cheap camper but God only knows has “save” it is and trades men wanting to save money by classing their work van as a camper.
    The insurance is a group scheme, it costs the same to insure my 5K camper as it does to insure a 50K motor home, you can get insurance as sole vehicle also but it’s about 600 instead of 300 but it would need to be a proper camper and I’d say they’d refuse to touch a tin top unless it’s a classic.
    Before you do anything get onto a broker and see if you can get insurance as a camper or get insurance through them as a daily driver.

    Try Dolemn insurance but also what ever they say on the phone could change when AXA look at it so you could be skunked at the last minute


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    #8
    Bawnmore
    Registered Users Posts: 1,743 ✭✭✭Bawnmore


    Out of interest - if the vehicle was converted to a camper from a tax perspective, would it be possible to still insure it as a private vehicle? E.g. in the case of the people carrier conversion in the OP, if it had set cooking facilities and storage/table etc. and was reclassified as a camper, would it still be possible to register is as a regular people carrier on a private policy?


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    #9
    Crapbag
    Registered Users Posts: 334 ✭✭Crapbag


    I think insuring a vehicle under a different classification is not done that often. I don't see why not because the insurance would be more and you would insure it as a passenger vehicle and using it as such. The restriction on mileage wouldn't apply and you would be using it for the purpose insured. The problem is the question might be asked as to why you aren't taxing it as a passenger vehicle. It's another grey area because it is dual purpose and of course people would say it should be taxed at the higher rate as everyone would then start converting to get cheaper tax


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    #10
    moodrater
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,638 ✭✭✭moodrater


    Crapbag wrote: »
    I think insuring a vehicle under a different classification is not done that often. I don't see why not because the insurance would be more and you would insure it as a passenger vehicle and using it as such. The restriction on mileage wouldn't apply and you would be using it for the purpose insured. The problem is the question might be asked as to why you aren't taxing it as a passenger vehicle. It's another grey area because it is dual purpose and of course people would say it should be taxed at the higher rate as everyone would then start converting to get cheaper tax

    Its not really a gray area once you've put your signature on rf111a.


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    #11
    Crapbag
    Registered Users Posts: 334 ✭✭Crapbag


    moodrater wrote: »
    Its not really a gray area once you've put your signature on rf111a.

    The RF111A applies to goods vehicles. A camper is not a goods vehicle so this form only applies for when you apply for commercial tax. If im not mistaken Bawnmore was referring to Camper and passenger vehicle, not commercial and passenger vehicle


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    #12
    moodrater
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,638 ✭✭✭moodrater


    Crapbag wrote: »
    The RF111A applies to goods vehicles. A camper is not a goods vehicle so this form only applies for when you apply for commercial tax. If im not mistaken Bawnmore was referring to Camper and passenger vehicle, not commercial and passenger vehicle

    Sorry brain fart, don't think any insurance company will do that, I've gotten temporary camper cover from axa and fbd on private policy. Best best is talk to a broker thats used to dealig with the oddball stuff like wexford.


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    #13
    spaceHopper
    Registered Users Posts: 3,970 ✭✭✭spaceHopper


    The first time I taxed the camper Ihad to sign a from saying it was for leisure and not for every day use.


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    #14
    Crapbag
    Registered Users Posts: 334 ✭✭Crapbag


    spaceHopper wrote: »
    The first time I taxed the camper Ihad to sign a from saying it was for leisure and not for every day use.

    Yep that sounds more like what happens alright. The problem is that we all want the same thing. To pay as little on insurance and tax for the vehicles that we own. The problem is that if you want to insure and tax a camper, especially a convert and use it day to day. It needs to be insured and taxed as a passenger vehicle.

    Im hoping to have floor mounts fitted to my van for eventual fitting of passenger seats. This just gives me options in the future. Legally a camper can have up to 6 seats (open to correction here)


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    #15
    moodrater
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,638 ✭✭✭moodrater


    You can pay extra to dolmen if its your sole vehicle.


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    #16
    eoin95
    Closed Accounts Posts: 103 ✭✭eoin95


    A mate of mine has recently bought a camper - Vw transporter that was converted. Didn't have the high top and wasn't a camper on the log book. He couldn't get commercial insurance so went to revenue and paid the vrt to have it registered as a camper. The bill was €1k+, not sure of the exact figure. Anyway, now he still can't get insurance as it isnt 1.8m clearance inside!!! He's having a nice paddle up sh!t creek after spending lots of cash on a garden orniment!!! Anyway, anyone know any way around this?


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    #17
    Bawnmore
    Registered Users Posts: 1,743 ✭✭✭Bawnmore


    eoin95 wrote: »
    A mate of mine has recently bought a camper - Vw transporter that was converted. Didn't have the high top and wasn't a camper on the log book. He couldn't get commercial insurance so went to revenue and paid the vrt to have it registered as a camper. The bill was €1k+, not sure of the exact figure. Anyway, now he still can't get insurance as it isnt 1.8m clearance inside!!! He's having a nice paddle up sh!t creek after spending lots of cash on a garden orniment!!! Anyway, anyone know any way around this?

    Jesus not looking good so. Would he be able to insure it as a private vehicle? It'll be more than camper insurance, but at least it wouldn't all be for nothing (if it's possible of course).


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    #18
    CJhaughey
    Registered Users Posts: 14,906 ✭✭✭✭CJhaughey


    Pop Top conversion?
    Might not be cheap but could add functionality.
    http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/VW-camper-elevating-VW-T4-roof-pop-top-T5-elevating-available-Now-/301156797466


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    #19
    stevire
    Registered Users Posts: 1,512 ✭✭✭stevire


    eoin95 wrote: »
    A mate of mine has recently bought a camper - Vw transporter that was converted. Didn't have the high top and wasn't a camper on the log book. He couldn't get commercial insurance so went to revenue and paid the vrt to have it registered as a camper. The bill was €1k+, not sure of the exact figure. Anyway, now he still can't get insurance as it isnt 1.8m clearance inside!!! He's having a nice paddle up sh!t creek after spending lots of cash on a garden orniment!!! Anyway, anyone know any way around this?

    I went through the insurance process with my low-top T4 in Feb. I rang Axa directly, plus plenty of emails. Long story short, they took it to the underwriters and made an exception to insure me (through Dolmen)

    It was a complicated process but can be done, I was insured with them before for another camper.


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    #20
    airhead_eire
    Closed Accounts Posts: 133 ✭✭airhead_eire


    eoin95 wrote: »
    A mate of mine has recently bought a camper - Vw transporter that was converted. Didn't have the high top and wasn't a camper on the log book. He couldn't get commercial insurance so went to revenue and paid the vrt to have it registered as a camper. The bill was €1k+, not sure of the exact figure. Anyway, now he still can't get insurance as it isnt 1.8m clearance inside!!! He's having a nice paddle up sh!t creek after spending lots of cash on a garden orniment!!! Anyway, anyone know any way around this?

    I'm insured with MacCarthy Insurances (South Mall, Cork branch) and never had a problem with the 1.8 metre rule with them. Mine is a standard height T5. They might be worth a call.


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    #21
    Bawnmore
    Registered Users Posts: 1,743 ✭✭✭Bawnmore


    airhead_eire wrote: »
    I'm insured with MacCarthy Insurances (South Mall, Cork branch) and never had a problem with the 1.8 metre rule with them. Mine is a standard height T5. They might be worth a call.

    Just to check - this was a conversion too I assume, right?


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    #22
    airhead_eire
    Closed Accounts Posts: 133 ✭✭airhead_eire


    Bawnmore wrote: »
    Just to check - this was a conversion too I assume, right?

    Correct. It's a T5 with rock & roll bed, 2 ring hob, sink, coupboards etc. My previous T4 was a conversion and I had that insured with them too (also standard height i.e. not 1.8 metres).


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