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Developer Jobs

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  • 11-11-2014 8:24pm
    #1
    BmCon
    Registered Users Posts: 88 ✭✭


    Hi All.

    Do you need a degree to get a job as a developer?

    I'm sick of sending out CVs and not getting any word back.

    Thanks


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    #2
    FobleAsNuck
    Registered Users Posts: 793 ✭✭✭FobleAsNuck


    not getting ANY feedback might mean you're doing something wrong. just sayin


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    #3
    MillField
    Registered Users Posts: 635 ✭✭✭MillField


    Most development jobs list a degree as a requirement. Where are you applying for jobs?


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    #4
    BmCon
    Registered Users Posts: 88 ✭✭BmCon


    FobleAsNuck wrote: »
    not getting ANY feedback might mean you're doing something wrong. just sayin

    Thanks for the insight. :/


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    #5
    FobleAsNuck
    Registered Users Posts: 793 ✭✭✭FobleAsNuck


    since you didn't share anything, how can you expect any constructive criticism?


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    #6
    Graham
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 17,642 Mod ✭✭✭✭Graham


    What training and/or experience do you have, how much of it? What does your portfolio look like, do you have much to demonstrate what you're capable of?

    Seriously BmCon, give us something to work with here.


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    #7
    BmCon
    Registered Users Posts: 88 ✭✭BmCon


    colmulhall wrote: »
    Most development jobs list a degree as a requirement. Where are you applying for jobs?

    Everywhere I see it jobs listed. I'm self thought with eight years experience in front and back end development. I also went back to school and now have a level 6 but can't go on because need to work full time. (My wife has cancer so committing to 4 years is not an option)

    Just a bit disheartened with the lack of responces.

    Thanks


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    #8
    Graham
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 17,642 Mod ✭✭✭✭Graham


    BmCon wrote: »
    Everywhere I see it jobs listed. I'm self thought with eight years experience in front and back end development. I also went back to school and now have a level 6 but can't go on because need to work full time. (My wife has cancer so committing to 4 years is not an option)

    Just a bit disheartened with the lack of responces.

    Thanks

    Experience in what, come on, give it some thought. If any of us were a potential employer, what could you offer? Specifics:

    X years writing XXX, my biggest projects were YYYY and GGG where I ______. I'm also familiar with ZZZZ. I'm currently learning WWWW.


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    #9
    B.A._Baracus
    Registered Users Posts: 11,178 ✭✭✭✭B.A._Baracus


    BmCon wrote: »
    Everywhere I see it jobs listed. I'm self thought with eight years experience in front and back end development. I also went back to school and now have a level 6 but can't go on because need to work full time. (My wife has cancer so committing to 4 years is not an option)

    Just a bit disheartened with the lack of responces.

    Thanks

    Sorry to hear about your wife :(

    But personally, I keep hearing that a degree is worthless... it's all about your portfolio blah blah blah. But it's true I found. It's still an employers market out there. I find that these companies want you to know everything under the sun to give you an interview let alone a job :confused:

    But what skillset do you currently have?


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    #10
    salamanca22
    Registered Users Posts: 1,179 ✭✭✭salamanca22


    Op, before I started working on my degree I would show prospective clients ( I freelanced mostly) my github account which showed many pieces of code. I am also a leading contributor to an open source project with over 500k lines of code. Lines of code != quality but management love those numbers.

    A degree certainly helps but experience and proficiency > degree.

    You just need to show them something.


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    #11
    BmCon
    Registered Users Posts: 88 ✭✭BmCon


    Guys I'm in web development and as you know the list is:
    Html, CSS, JavaScript, jquery, MySQL, php and SEO.
    I've also used everything from adobe products to creloaded.

    I've worked on custom development for most part but now I'm getting into Laravel framework because it looks like that's what is needed.

    I studied c# .net in the level 6 course.

    I'm a developer not a designer. ;) and php web development would be my ideal job.


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    #12
    MillField
    Registered Users Posts: 635 ✭✭✭MillField


    To be fair the degree is only a requirement to get an interview in a lot of places. It has very little meaning after that. You'll get a job if you can prove you can develop and figure things out.


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    #13
    L.Jenkins
    Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 19,240 Mod ✭✭✭✭L.Jenkins


    Firstly, sorry to hear about your wife and I hope the next will be good in the near future.

    Secondly, if you don't have a portfolio, get a github account and start building on it. I would say, along side Web Development, start working on you C# and .NET development skills. Buy books if you have to, download tutorials, try new things and continue to work on your own personal development.

    Third point and most of all, ask question. We're all in the same boat and we don't know everything, as much as we'd love to.


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    #14
    MaggotBrain
    Closed Accounts Posts: 433 ✭✭MaggotBrain


    What county are you in?

    If you want to PM your CV / application I will give you a no holds barred review in full confidence.


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    #15
    B.A._Baracus
    Registered Users Posts: 11,178 ✭✭✭✭B.A._Baracus


    You've got the skillset, BmCon.
    So aint no problem with your knowledge. But I find the internships are ruining developer/designer jobs right now.

    Biggest eye opener for me was 8 months ago. I applied for an front-end job to be told I didnt have the required skill set. Thought to myself "fair enough" but decided to then apply for the internship position the company was also listing. What did I get? a response saying I would need the exact same skillset to get the internship.

    It was my belief that there was no job. Ha, must check to see if it's still "listed" :)
    But all in all, apart from those guys above, i see so many companies just listing internships rather than paying jobs.


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    #16
    Graham
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 17,642 Mod ✭✭✭✭Graham


    BmCon wrote: »
    Guys I'm in web development and as you know the list is:
    Html, CSS, JavaScript, jquery, MySQL, php and SEO.
    I've also used everything from adobe products to creloaded.

    I've worked on custom development for most part but now I'm getting into Laravel framework because it looks like that's what is needed.

    I studied c# .net in the level 6 course.

    I'm a developer not a designer. ;) and php web development would be my ideal job.

    Are you working in a semi-related field at the moment or are you still looking for your first IT related position? As an earlier poster hinted at, your location is likely to have a significant impact on the number of opportunities open to you.


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    #17
    FobleAsNuck
    Registered Users Posts: 793 ✭✭✭FobleAsNuck


    have you any projects you contributed to? hook onto some on GitHub, share whatever you've created so far, identify the profficiency in each field and find your gaps. with some polishing a lack of degree won't be a problem. I only went to college after landing a job.


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    #18
    fergalr
    Registered Users Posts: 1,922 ✭✭✭fergalr


    BmCom:

    CV/cover letter tips:
    - Write a good cover letter specific to the role you are applying for.
    - Explain convincingly what you can do for your employer: what skills you have that solves the business problem they have. Then provide evidence that is the case.


    1) You might be just venting here, but you spent a long time before mentioning your skills.

    2) Reading this thread, I still have no idea whether you can do the things you say you can. I don't disbelieve you - but you need to think about an employer trying to sort out loads of candidates.


    When you apply for a role, do you provide employers with evidence you can do what you say you can?

    Because the big problem for employers is finding programmers that can actually do what they say they can, and are competent in the skills they claim to be competent in.

    A degree is one type of evidence. But what employers really want is the evidence. If you do not have the degree, you should be providing other evidence.

    What does your evidence look like? Is it convincing?

    Would it convince a third party who doesn't know you that you are worth spending time investigating further?

    Can you provide with the URL of a quality piece of work you have built? If not, that's one place to start.


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    #19
    BmCon
    Registered Users Posts: 88 ✭✭BmCon


    Itzy wrote: »
    Firstly, sorry to hear about your wife and I hope the next will be good in the near future.

    Secondly, if you don't have a portfolio, get a github account and start building on it. I would say, along side Web Development, start working on you C# and .NET development skills. Buy books if you have to, download tutorials, try new things and continue to work on your own personal development.

    Third point and most of all, ask question. We're all in the same boat and we don't know everything, as much as we'd love to.

    I think you're right about the internships.. It a pity things have gone that way.

    I'll sort gitHub later. Have not used it as yet. I'll also see what I can come up with in relation to c# program. Maybe a SME accounting system or booking system comes to mind.


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    #20
    BmCon
    Registered Users Posts: 88 ✭✭BmCon


    MaggotBrain wrote: »
    What county are you in?

    I'm in Kildare. 30min from the big smoke.
    If you want to PM your CV / application I will give you a no holds barred review in full confidence.

    I'll do it later if you don't mind (in hospital with wife right now)
    Thank for do this :)


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    #21
    BmCon
    Registered Users Posts: 88 ✭✭BmCon


    B.A._Baracus wrote: »
    You've got the skillset, BmCon.
    So aint no problem with your knowledge. But I find the internships are ruining developer/designer jobs right now.

    Biggest eye opener for me was 8 months ago. I applied for an front-end job to be told I didnt have the required skill set. Thought to myself "fair enough" but decided to then apply for the internship position the company was also listing. What did I get? a response saying I would need the exact same skillset to get the internship.

    It was my belief that there was no job. Ha, must check to see if it's still "listed" :)
    But all in all, apart from those guys above, i see so many companies just listing internships rather than paying jobs.

    I agree.
    I don't mind getting in the door and learning their way of doing the job, but 6 months using my knowledge and experience without payment is slave labour.


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    #22
    BmCon
    Registered Users Posts: 88 ✭✭BmCon


    Graham wrote: »
    Are you working in a semi-related field at the moment or are you still looking for your first IT related position? As an earlier poster hinted at, your location is likely to have a significant impact on the number of opportunities open to you.

    I'm working in the area at the moment but need a steady income from a full time job.


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    #23
    NeVeR
    Registered Users Posts: 5,325 ✭✭✭NeVeR


    Are you on linkedin ?

    My company is always hiring https://www.linkedin.com/vsearch/j?page_num=1&keywords=Rational+Group&locationType=Y&f_C=2853087%2C523098%2C3300298&trk=jobs_biz_prem_all_header


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    #24
    ChuckProphet
    Registered Users Posts: 646 ✭✭✭ChuckProphet


    reminds me of this article I read recently

    http://www.irishtimes.com/news/education/it-conversion-courses-not-all-employers-are-converts-1.1990810


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    #25
    BmCon
    Registered Users Posts: 88 ✭✭BmCon


    FobleAsNuck wrote: »
    have you any projects you contributed to? hook onto some on GitHub, share whatever you've created so far, identify the profficiency in each field and find your gaps. with some polishing a lack of degree won't be a problem. I only went to college after landing a job.

    I've developed custom projects but I can't show here because I don't want the client to see I'm looking to get full a time job.
    It's an online booking system using php.

    A guy with a degree was not able to do it, but I know the client so I did it for them.
    (Website and Booking system - custom CMS controlling both)
    The site is built with php but the urls show as .html
    All page are dynamically created from one file. (This was before I knew about MVC)
    All SEO can be done on the fly and all site pages are automatically/dynamically added to XML sitemap and html sitemap.

    I'll PM the Link to anyone who wants a look.
    Im not a designer so the look of the site could be better (if done by a pro designer)


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    #26
    BmCon
    Registered Users Posts: 88 ✭✭BmCon


    fergalr wrote: »
    BmCom:

    CV/cover letter tips:
    - Write a good cover letter specific to the role you are applying for.
    - Explain convincingly what you can do for your employer: what skills you have that solves the business problem they have. Then provide evidence that is the case.

    Good advice thanks

    1) You might be just venting here, but you spent a long time before mentioning your skills.

    My OP question was only based on the degree issue. Sorry about the delay.
    2) Reading this thread, I still have no idea whether you can do the things you say you can. I don't disbelieve you - but you need to think about an employer trying to sort out loads of candidates.

    Again good advice.

    When you apply for a role, do you provide employers with evidence you can do what you say you can?

    Because the big problem for employers is finding programmers that can actually do what they say they can, and are competent in the skills they claim to be competent in.

    A degree is one type of evidence. But what employers really want is the evidence. If you do not have the degree, you should be providing other evidence.

    What does your evidence look like? Is it convincing?

    Would it convince a third party who doesn't know you that you are worth spending time investigating further?

    Can you provide with the URL of a quality piece of work you have built? If not, that's one place to start.

    I'll PM you a link and you can tell me if it's up to scratch (not be confused with the kids programming learning tool)


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    #27
    veganrun
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,137 ✭✭✭veganrun


    Hello BM Con,

    Firstly, I hope your wife makes a full, speedy recovery.

    It sounds like you have some development skills so perhaps you just need to advertise that more. Does your CV highlight your dev skills and experience?

    I work in software testing myself but I do some automation work as part of my job and I would like to move more into a development position. I've started developing mobile apps and have released a few to the phone's app store so if/when I get an interview, I can talk about this in the interview. I'm also hoping to set up my own website to showcase my apps.

    Perhaps you could do something similar?


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    #28
    BmCon
    Registered Users Posts: 88 ✭✭BmCon


    veganrun wrote: »
    Hello BM Con,

    Firstly, I hope your wife makes a full, speedy recovery.

    Thank you.
    We fight every day to defeat her cancer. It makes us very happy to see so many people give their time and help to us. She has stage 4 breast cancer so her fight will be a constant one.
    It sounds like you have some development skills so perhaps you just need to advertise that more. Does your CV highlight your dev skills and experience?

    I had a lot of work to do on my CV. Got great advice from one of the posters here.
    I work in software testing myself but I do some automation work as part of my job and I would like to move more into a development position. I've started developing mobile apps and have released a few to the phone's app store so if/when I get an interview, I can talk about this in the interview. I'm also hoping to set up my own website to showcase my apps.

    Perhaps you could do something similar?

    I need to do a bit of this alright. Never developed an iPhone app. What IDK are you using? I develop on windows machines.


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    #29
    average_runner
    Registered Users Posts: 12,845 ✭✭✭✭average_runner


    BmCon wrote: »
    Guys I'm in web development and as you know the list is:
    Html, CSS, JavaScript, jquery, MySQL, php and SEO.
    I've also used everything from adobe products to creloaded.

    I've worked on custom development for most part but now I'm getting into Laravel framework because it looks like that's what is needed.

    I studied c# .net in the level 6 course.

    I'm a developer not a designer. ;) and php web development would be my ideal job.


    And ur location?


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    #30
    BmCon
    Registered Users Posts: 88 ✭✭BmCon


    average_runner wrote: »
    And ur location?

    Kildare


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    #31
    red_bairn
    Registered Users Posts: 2,342 ✭✭✭red_bairn


    ChuckProphet wrote:
    reminds me of this article I read recently


    Unfortunately John made a mistake saying 1) I did an aptitude test - I had to work out the output for two Java programs on paper. 2) I got one out of the two correct.

    I think they took me on because they could see I could understand some Java, they saw I had a Masters Deg, I had great references from a lecturer from UCD and the web developer with Spunout and finally I had years of customer experience so the Graduate Programme would be suitable for speaking to customers by phone and email.

    I have a Github account but it isn't great. I would like to add to this after I work on something in the near future. I have a LinkedIn account and details of projects on there or on Cargo collective.

    There are lots of roles in PHP for the OP. I recommend you try get some role and take up on a course at night time.


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