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Company of 25?

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  • 29-03-2012 12:40pm
    #1
    Kosseegan
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 987 ✭✭✭


    Since when has an army company had a strength of 25, except after a major engagement on active serrvice? Even by the standards of the Irish Army this takes some beating.

    It seems clear that the 6bn will not survive the move to a 2 Brigae structure.


    http://www.westmeathindependent.ie/news/roundup/articles/2012/03/28/400

    The arrival of the troops from Cavan will be a somewhat more low-key affair. Yesterday (Tuesday) the lowering of the flag took place in Cavan and just 25 troops from A Company 6th Infantry Battalion will be redeployed to Custume Barracks, where they will join the rest of the battalion, which was already based in Athlone.
    The majority of the 80 troops who had been based in Cavan are being redeployed to other barracks, at their own requests.


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    #2
    Cardinal Richelieu
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,407 ✭✭✭Cardinal Richelieu


    Link is not working.


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    #3
    Donny5
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,827 ✭✭✭Donny5


    Cardinal Richelieu wrote: »
    Link is not working.

    Here you go.


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    #4
    Maoltuile
    Registered Users Posts: 634 ✭✭✭Maoltuile


    Kosseegan wrote: »
    Since when has an army company had a strength of 25, except after a major engagement on active serrvice? Even by the standards of the Irish Army this takes some beating.

    You've clearly never encountered the FCÁ/RDF...


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    #5
    Local-womanizer
    Registered Users Posts: 3,798 ✭✭✭Local-womanizer


    Maoltuile wrote: »
    You've clearly never encountered the FCÁ/RDF...

    It's about quality not quantity! :pac:


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    #6
    Maoltuile
    Registered Users Posts: 634 ✭✭✭Maoltuile


    Local-womanizer wrote: »
    It's about quality not quantity! :pac:

    They were just being polite when they told you that ;)


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    #7
    SIRREX
    Registered Users Posts: 217 ✭✭SIRREX


    Kosseegan wrote: »
    Since when has an army company had a strength of 25, except after a major engagement on active serrvice? Even by the standards of the Irish Army this takes some beating.
    25 was not the full strength of the Company from Cavan Bks, it's just the number of personnel who choose not to retire, or transfer to another unit, at another more convenient location


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    #8
    OS119
    Registered Users Posts: 2,518 ✭✭✭OS119


    SIRREX wrote: »
    25 was not the full strength of the Company from Cavan Bks, it's just the number of personnel who choose not to retire, or transfer to another unit, at another more convenient location

    thats very true, but thats the 'full strength' of the Coy now - the score as it stands today is that A Coy, 6 Inf Bn has 25 members.

    i don't know how that will be fixed - are there going to be 80-odd other inf transferees into Athlone who can be used to fill out the Coy? as importantly, what form does the 25 take - has it got a Coy Cdr, or a 2ic , Pln Cdrs, a CSM, any Pln Sgts - does the IA have these people floating around Althone looking for a job?

    if the answer is 'no', then i don't see how the Coy can effectively be reformed.


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    #9
    Milk & Honey
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,950 ✭✭✭Milk & Honey


    OS119 wrote: »
    thats very true, but thats the 'full strength' of the Coy now - the score as it stands today is that A Coy, 6 Inf Bn has 25 members.

    i don't know how that will be fixed - are there going to be 80-odd other inf transferees into Athlone who can be used to fill out the Coy? as importantly, what form does the 25 take - has it got a Coy Cdr, or a 2ic , Pln Cdrs, a CSM, any Pln Sgts - does the IA have these people floating around Althone looking for a job?

    if the answer is 'no', then i don't see how the Coy can effectively be reformed.

    There are 3 other companies of the 6 bn in Athlone. They will be able to move a few from each of the other companies into A coy and keep the essential appointments filled. There will no doubt be a bit of double jobbing and acting up. When A coy was last in Athlone it trained all the recruits in Athlone.
    Probably get the same job again.


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    #10
    Kosseegan
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 987 ✭✭✭Kosseegan


    Maoltuile wrote: »
    You've clearly never encountered the FCÁ/RDF...


    I said an army company. I have indeed encountered the FCÁ/RDF. Inability to read the question and poor counting are among their many shortcomings.


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    #11
    Morpheus
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 2,688 Mod ✭✭✭✭Morpheus


    On your original point, until the new recruits filter into the system and get assigned (and your talking at between 5 - 10 out of 600 going to each unit is my best guess).

    You must mean just the PDF part of the army as "The Army" as you call it, in itself is composed of regular AND reserve elements.

    We are also known to be pedantic, patriotic volunteers and some of us are highly educated, in fact to the point that we can even count without using our fingers.


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    #12
    Kosseegan
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 987 ✭✭✭Kosseegan


    Morphéus wrote: »
    On your original point, until the new recruits filter into the system and get assigned (and your talking at between 5 - 10 out of 600 going to each unit is my best guess).

    You must mean just the PDF part of the army as "The Army" as you call it, in itself is composed of regular AND reserve elements.

    We are also known to be pedantic, patriotic volunteers and some of us are highly educated, in fact to the point that we can even count without using our fingers.


    The PDF and RDF as well as the ANS comprise the Defence Forces. You are not seriously calling the Reserve an army, or even part of an army are you?


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    #13
    galwaycyclist
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,913 ✭✭✭galwaycyclist


    Kosseegan wrote: »
    The PDF and RDF as well as the ANS comprise the Defence Forces. You are not seriously calling the Reserve an army, or even part of an army are you?

    PDF = under equipped division maybe but an Army?


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    #14
    Fuinseog
    Registered Users Posts: 5,371 ✭✭✭Fuinseog


    Kosseegan wrote: »
    Since when has an army company had a strength of 25, except after a major engagement on active serrvice? Even by the standards of the Irish Army this takes some beating.

    It seems clear that the 6bn will not survive the move to a 2 Brigae structure.


    http://www.westmeathindependent.ie/news/roundup/articles/2012/03/28/400

    The arrival of the troops from Cavan will be a somewhat more low-key affair. Yesterday (Tuesday) the lowering of the flag took place in Cavan and just 25 troops from A Company 6th Infantry Battalion will be redeployed to Custume Barracks, where they will join the rest of the battalion, which was already based in Athlone.
    The majority of the 80 troops who had been based in Cavan are being redeployed to other barracks, at their own requests.

    in the IRA a brigade used to comprise of maybe twenty individuals.


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    #15
    Morpheus
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 2,688 Mod ✭✭✭✭Morpheus


    Kosseegan wrote: »
    The PDF and RDF as well as the ANS comprise the Defence Forces. You are not seriously calling the Reserve an army, or even part of an army are you?

    Ive no idea what you are wagging your tongue about here but all i meant was that "the army" as most civvies know it, or the Defence Forces as those of us in the PDF or RDF call it, is actually comprised of those two components only. Like I said, we can be pedantic, but here goes, The NSR (Naval Service Reserve) is actually a component part of the RDF alongside the AR (Army Reserve)

    Im under no illusions, the RDF is not an army in itself but is a reserve component of the irish defence forces and that is all...

    There are companies in the RDF operating at 25 and below, there are now companies in the PDF operating at similiar levels, this is a direct effect of the recruitment embargo applied to the defence forces as a whole and there should be no surprise on anyones faces at where we are right now.


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    #16
    OS119
    Registered Users Posts: 2,518 ✭✭✭OS119


    Morphéus wrote: »
    this is a direct effect of the recruitment embargo applied to the defence forces as a whole....

    while this is true, its also a result of the result of a willingness within the senior levels of the Army to continue with the makey-uppy formations that provide so many of those officers with a good living.

    until recently, the Army, both reserve and regular, theoretically comprised 6 Brigades - yes, 6 - with some 18 infantry Battalions. yet it had a strength of 8,500 regulars, and perhaps 3000 active, useful reservists.

    in Helmand Province, a Brigade has about 6000 members. in Ireland, a brigade has about 2000. they might be short 4000 soldiers, but they weren't short of Brigade and Bn level staff officers...


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    #17
    goldie fish
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,195 ✭✭✭goldie fish


    Fuinseog wrote: »
    in the IRA a brigade used to comprise of maybe twenty individual criminals.
    Fixed


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    #18
    Milk & Honey
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,950 ✭✭✭Milk & Honey


    OS119 wrote: »
    while this is true, its also a result of the result of a willingness within the senior levels of the Army to continue with the makey-uppy formations that provide so many of those officers with a good living.

    until recently, the Army, both reserve and regular, theoretically comprised 6 Brigades - yes, 6 - with some 18 infantry Battalions. yet it had a strength of 8,500 regulars, and perhaps 3000 active, useful reservists.

    in Helmand Province, a Brigade has about 6000 members. in Ireland, a brigade has about 2000. they might be short 4000 soldiers, but they weren't short of Brigade and Bn level staff officers...

    Which were the 6 brigades?


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    #19
    Maoltuile
    Registered Users Posts: 634 ✭✭✭Maoltuile


    Milk & Honey wrote: »
    Which were the 6 brigades?

    There were six integrated brigades years ago, but I was sure that since then the numbers were four and (now) three.

    There was duplication of the staff of the Commands and the Brigades, as I recall.


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    #20
    Donny5
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,827 ✭✭✭Donny5


    Milk & Honey wrote: »
    Which were the 6 brigades?

    There were the three (East, West & South) PDF Brigades and a corresponding RDF Brigade for each.


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    #21
    Kosseegan
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 987 ✭✭✭Kosseegan


    Morphéus wrote: »
    Ive no idea what you are wagging your tongue about here but all i meant was that "the army" as most civvies know it, or the Defence Forces as those of us in the PDF or RDF call it, is actually comprised of those two components only. Like I said, we can be pedantic, but here goes, The NSR (Naval Service Reserve) is actually a component part of the RDF alongside the AR (Army Reserve)

    Im under no illusions, the RDF is not an army in itself but is a reserve component of the irish defence forces and that is all...

    There are companies in the RDF operating at 25 and below, there are now companies in the PDF operating at similiar levels, this is a direct effect of the recruitment embargo applied to the defence forces as a whole and there should be no surprise on anyones faces at where we are right now.


    Defence Act 1954

    18.—The Defence Forces shall consist of—

    ( a ) a defence force to be called and known as na Buan-Óglaigh or (in English) the Permanent Defence Force, comprising army, naval and air components, and

    ( b ) a defence force to be called and known as na, hÓglaigh Cúltaca or (in English) the Reserve Defence Force, comprising army, naval and air components.

    Constitution of the Permanent Defence Force. 19.—The Permanent Defence Force shall consist of—

    ( a ) persons who are appointed thereto as officers and are for the time being officers of the Permanent Defence Force,

    ( b ) persons who are enlisted therein as men under section 53 or 54 and are for the time being men of the Permanent Defence Force,

    ( c ) persons who, having enlisted therein as men under section 53 and having been transferred to the Reserve Defence Force under section 70, re-enter the Permanent Defence Force under subsection (3) of section 63 and are for the time being men of the Permanent Defence Force, and

    ( d ) persons who are for the time being members of the Army Nursing Service.

    Constitution of the Reserve Defence Force. 20.—The Reserve Defence Force shall consist of—

    ( a ) persons who are appointed thereto as officers and are for the time being officers of the Reserve Defence Force,

    ( b ) persons who are transferred thereto as men from the Permanent Defence Force under section 70 and are for the time being reservists, and

    ( c ) persons who are directly enlisted therein as men under section 55 and are for the time being reservists.



    Only the PDF has an army component.


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    #22
    Donny5
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,827 ✭✭✭Donny5


    Kosseegan wrote: »
    ( b ) a defence force to be called and known as na, hÓglaigh Cúltaca or (in English) the Reserve Defence Force, comprising army, naval and air components.

    ...

    Only the PDF has an army component.

    Your own post proves you wrong.


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    #23
    Morpheus
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 2,688 Mod ✭✭✭✭Morpheus


    interesting that there is supposed to be a reserve air component :D


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    #24
    galwaycyclist
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,913 ✭✭✭galwaycyclist


    Morphéus wrote: »
    interesting that there is supposed to be a reserve air component :D

    Well I know an RDF infantry officer who also happens to be a helicopter pilot.


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    #25
    davetherave
    Registered Users Posts: 3,359 ✭✭✭davetherave


    Morphéus wrote: »
    interesting that there is supposed to be a reserve air component :D
    Could mean persons from the AC who are now on the first line reserve?


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