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The future of the internal combustion engine according to Koenigsegg

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    #2
    keithsfleet
    Registered Users Posts: 1,072 ✭✭✭keithsfleet


    Interesting.
    I'd read about this a while ago but didn't know it had been applied to any cars yet.
    Big step forward for the I.C engine.


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    #3
    jimgoose
    Registered Users Posts: 20,175 ✭✭✭✭jimgoose


    Camless (presumably electrohydraulic, like some newer ship engines), eh? Interesting indeed. :cool:


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    #4
    recyclebin
    Registered Users Posts: 3,502 ✭✭✭recyclebin


    Surprised this hasn't happened before to be honest. When you look at a cam shaft it's very old technology and not very flexible in what it can do. From the look of it the Koenigsegg system is very simple and could be developed even more. The next stage would be to control how much the valves open. It looks like the konigsegg system can only control the valve to two positions, fully closed and fully opened. If they used an electric solenoid they could probably control it better than what can be done with air. The speed of electrical system may prohibit this though.


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    #5
    corkgsxr
    Registered Users Posts: 3,404 ✭✭✭corkgsxr


    Cost would be a issue though id say. Id say they'd cost similar to a diesel injector. So 16x400 euro for a normal car. For a v8 itd be almost 13 grand on valves alone


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    #6
    jimgoose
    Registered Users Posts: 20,175 ✭✭✭✭jimgoose


    corkgsxr wrote: »
    Cost would be a issue though id say. Id say they'd cost similar to a diesel injector. So 16x400 euro for a normal car. For a v8 itd be almost 13 grand on valves alone

    Mmmm. You wouldn't notice that sort of cost buying the likes of a Koenigseggseggseggig, but maybe helical camshafts are a more practical stepping-stone to true stepless VVT for mere mortals?


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    #7
    biko
    Registered Users Posts: 81,223 ✭✭✭✭biko


    Free those valves baby :)
    Will probably be used in sports/super cars for 10+ years and then filter down to regular cars eventually once the cost of manufacture is less.


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    #8
    BigEejit
    Registered Users Posts: 3,739 ✭✭✭BigEejit


    corkgsxr wrote: »
    Cost would be a issue though id say. Id say they'd cost similar to a diesel injector. So 16x400 euro for a normal car. For a v8 itd be almost 13 grand on valves alone
    Why do you think they would cost the same as an injector? They have far more in common with air pistons which only cost a few quid.


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    #9
    corkgsxr
    Registered Users Posts: 3,404 ✭✭✭corkgsxr


    BigEejit wrote: »
    Why do you think they would cost the same as an injector? They have far more in common with air pistons which only cost a few quid.

    I dont think a air piston would be able to move that fast. Wheres a injector is designed to open and close that fast


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    #10
    galwaytt
    Registered Users Posts: 12,761 ✭✭✭✭galwaytt


    ....very clever. I like it.

    it's a modern evolution to what Ducati have been doing with desmodromic valve trains for years - trying to 'square' the profile, with much better valve open durations, lower - or no - overlap. Merc SL from the '50s tried it too. It's but one of the reasons that Ducati's have that very distinctive exhaust note.

    What's the difference between the 'free valve' technology here and the pneumatic valves used in F1 ?

    [edit] knew I'd read something along similar lines before: http://vipracing.hubpages.com/hub/how-does-the-MULTIAIR-fiat-works [/edit]

    Ode To The Motorist

    “And my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, generates funds to the exchequer. You don't want to acknowledge that as truth because, deep down in places you don't talk about at the Green Party, you want me on that road, you need me on that road. We use words like freedom, enjoyment, sport and community. We use these words as the backbone of a life spent instilling those values in our families and loved ones. You use them as a punch line. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the tax revenue and the very freedom to spend it that I provide, and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather you just said "thank you" and went on your way. Otherwise I suggest you pick up a bus pass and get the ********* ********* off the road” 



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    #11
    galwaytt
    Registered Users Posts: 12,761 ✭✭✭✭galwaytt


    ...maybe I should keep my old 9-5 for a few more years yet then, and just buy a Koenigseggeggeggegg FreeValve Upgrade Kit ..... :pac:

    Ode To The Motorist

    “And my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, generates funds to the exchequer. You don't want to acknowledge that as truth because, deep down in places you don't talk about at the Green Party, you want me on that road, you need me on that road. We use words like freedom, enjoyment, sport and community. We use these words as the backbone of a life spent instilling those values in our families and loved ones. You use them as a punch line. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the tax revenue and the very freedom to spend it that I provide, and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather you just said "thank you" and went on your way. Otherwise I suggest you pick up a bus pass and get the ********* ********* off the road” 



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    #12
    jimgoose
    Registered Users Posts: 20,175 ✭✭✭✭jimgoose


    galwaytt wrote: »
    ...What's the difference between the 'free valve' technology here and the pneumatic valves used in F1 ?

    F1 uses the pneumatics as a replacement for the coil springs. They're faster, and reduce the overall "load" on the valvetrain.


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    #13
    alias no.9
    Registered Users Posts: 6,266 ✭✭✭alias no.9


    Don't Fiat have something similar in production for a number of years?


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    #14
    jimgoose
    Registered Users Posts: 20,175 ✭✭✭✭jimgoose


    alias no.9 wrote: »
    Don't Fiat have something similar in production for a number of years?

    You mean that Multiair valve thing of theirs? That's different - it's basically variable inlet-valve timing, and not entirely unlike the old two-stroke Powervalve.


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    #15
    alias no.9
    Registered Users Posts: 6,266 ✭✭✭alias no.9


    jimgoose wrote: »
    You mean that Multiair valve thing of theirs? That's different - it's basically variable inlet-valve timing, and not entirely unlike the old two-stroke Powervalve.

    From a functional perspective, you have a valve that you can open and close on command anywhere across the stroke. Sure you can come up with different methods of actuation to do this but fully variable opening and closing along with the ability to do multiple opening/closings per stroke is about all you can do with the airflow.


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    #16
    jimgoose
    Registered Users Posts: 20,175 ✭✭✭✭jimgoose


    alias no.9 wrote: »
    From a functional perspective, you have a valve that you can open and close on command anywhere across the stroke. Sure you can come up with different methods of actuation to do this but fully variable opening and closing along with the ability to do multiple opening/closings per stroke is about all you can do with the airflow.

    Does Multiair do that?


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    #17
    alias no.9
    Registered Users Posts: 6,266 ✭✭✭alias no.9


    jimgoose wrote: »
    Does Multiair do that?

    Pretty sure it can. It's a a few years since I read anything about it. They had all kinds of funky profiles that they could do.


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    #18
    jimgoose
    Registered Users Posts: 20,175 ✭✭✭✭jimgoose


    alias no.9 wrote: »
    Pretty sure it can. It's a a few years since I read anything about it. They had all kinds of funky profiles that they could do.

    Pure mightiness. They're clever chappies when they want to be, them Eye-tallans. :cool:


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    #19
    dr.fuzzenstein
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 16,635 ✭✭✭✭dr.fuzzenstein


    BigEejit wrote: »
    Why do you think they would cost the same as an injector? They have far more in common with air pistons which only cost a few quid.

    Don't worry, VW will find a way of having them cost a grand each and fail at a rate of knots.


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    #20
    galwaytt
    Registered Users Posts: 12,761 ✭✭✭✭galwaytt


    dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »
    Don't worry, VW will find a way of having them cost a grand each and fail at a rate of knots.

    ....indeed. ....and your AA recovery vehicle will still be a Fiat. .....

    Ode To The Motorist

    “And my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, generates funds to the exchequer. You don't want to acknowledge that as truth because, deep down in places you don't talk about at the Green Party, you want me on that road, you need me on that road. We use words like freedom, enjoyment, sport and community. We use these words as the backbone of a life spent instilling those values in our families and loved ones. You use them as a punch line. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the tax revenue and the very freedom to spend it that I provide, and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather you just said "thank you" and went on your way. Otherwise I suggest you pick up a bus pass and get the ********* ********* off the road” 



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    #21
    dr.fuzzenstein
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 16,635 ✭✭✭✭dr.fuzzenstein


    galwaytt wrote: »
    ....indeed. ....and your AA recovery vehicle will still be a Fiat. .....

    Ha! AA is for wimps! (I took the option after two breakdowns):p


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    #22
    dgt
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,985 ✭✭✭✭dgt


    alias no.9 wrote: »
    Don't Fiat have something similar in production for a number of years?

    Similar idea indeed....
    FiatMultiAirEngine_01.jpg


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