Practice Swings ? (Why)

FixdePitchmark · 03-07-2015 1:43am #1

Was looking at some of the slowest golfers I ever seen today. Totally clueless in every way , they played as a 3 ball, 3 holes in the time I played 9 :eek: . The problem was they were golfers. A 2 ball played 7 in the time they played the same 3.

But also part of the problem, was a double practice swing for each of the 3 golfers and this bizarre pause that is now accepted as part of the game. Also, this , I will not start any part of my shot (or pre shot) before the partner ball is stopped.

Do you do one ? (practice swing)
Do you pause ? ( i respect you saying if you do)

Why do people do 2 practice swings ?

Should they be banned ? ("serious question")

My own idea on this is, it is habitual , if you look at most other sports , you just hit ball - some sports you hit ball as moving.

Why has golf got a practice swing and why do we tolerate such slow routines.

Watching one of the most skillful sports in the world here now Tennis - why do we tolerate what we do in golf ?

I played with a lad recently (about 60), he told me he hits his putts quickly now as his previous routine was too slow :eek:, he honestly had walked every angle on green twice, looked then looked again , then looked, then a pause over ball for about 20 seconds after standing over it - he told me he was quick now :eek:

Seriously , maybe I'm being too honest - but golf has got a bit crazy ?

It is the one thing I love about Rory - great example to kids.
Rory can do all he wants as world number 1 - but he doesn't hang about when jp gives him the club, I even love how quick rory does a practice swing.

I'm a bit more tolerant than this comes across - but has this tolerance in the game got out of hand , should someone be allowed to look at a putt from 360 degrees ? (another topic)

Anyway - good place to ask questions that need to be asked.

JIdontknow · 03-07-2015 2:00am

FixdePitchmark wrote: »

Was looking at some of the slowest golfers I ever seen today. Totally clueless in every way , they played as a 3 ball, 3 holes in the time I played 9 :eek: . The problem was they were golfers. A 2 ball played 7 in the time they played the same 3.

But part of the problem, was a double practice swings for each golfer and this bizarre pause that is now accepted as part of the game. Also, this , i will not start any part of my shot (or pre shot) before the partner ball is stopped.

Do you do one ? (practice swing)
Do you pause ? ( i respect you saying if you do)

Why do people do 2 practice swings ?

Should they be banned ? ("serious question")

My own idea on this is, it is habitual , if you look at most other sports , you just hit ball - some sports you hit ball as moving.

Why has golf got a practice swing ?

Watching one of the most skillful sports in the world here now Tennis - why do we tolerate what we do in golf ?

I played with a lad recently (about 60), he told me he hits his putts quickly now as his previous routine was too slow :eek:, he honestly had walked every angle on green twice, looked then looked again , then looked, then a pause over ball for about 20 seconds after standing over it - he told me he was quick now :eek:

Seriously , maybe I'm being too honest - but golf has got a bit crazy ?

It is the one thing I love about Rory - great example to kids.
Rory can do all he wants as world number 1 - but he doesn't hang about.

Snedeker another player whose a joy to watch.

I personally only take a practice swing for chip shots and putts, to get a feel for it. Driver, irons, etc never take a practice swing.

I see lads I play with take a big divot with practice swings, even with driver and then step up with ball teed up and swing, there's no consistency there...

I guess for some it's a complex, they are stuck in that routine almost like OCD, look at keegan Bradley / duffner, for their routines, Bradley especially ( see the video posted somewhere last week, took him 52 seconds to hit a shot)

The only answer I can think of for two practice swings is either a- they didn't like feel of first swing or b - muscle memory, so when they step up they "remember" how it should feel.

I actually rather not take practice swing, my reason being if I don't like the feel of it then do you take another or "chance it".

These new techniques of reading putts by standing and judging from stance the break seems a bit strange to me, I saw bubbas caddy do it last weekend, there was Robert rock whose caddy used line up his putts etc at times.

FixdePitchmark · 03-07-2015 2:09am

I was thinking ( too much)

Could you get a golfer - reduce every aspect of his routine and see score change,

( there would be an initial period to be ignored - such a change in his game)

But after ten games - these guys could have same score and speed up by 25%

Should everyone in golf be tolerating a reduction in speed - for individual problems ?

Rikand · 03-07-2015 7:43am

Just on watching Bradley last night, it appears that he has changed his routine. He was getting in behind the ball much quicker.

Evidently the social media storm surrounding his routine caused him to change.

Webbs · 03-07-2015 8:50am

I would only take a practice swing for chips around the green and in certain positions in the rough just to get a feel for how the rough will react with the clubhead. I have putted and driven the ball better since going to a no practice.

I am sure i was the same but you watch an awful lot of players take a practice swing and their full swing bears no resemblance to it whatsoever. A lot of these players would I think improve by not taking the practice swing just getting to the ball and hitting it.

Keano · 03-07-2015 9:15am

Is this a thread about practice swings or slow play

loadwire · 03-07-2015 9:32am

Only for chips or putts to get a feel for the length of swing. In my experience with very slow players the 'thinking' time is the problem rather than (or at least as much as) practice swings- changing clubs, taking an age over alignment etc. I do agree that a double practice swing is OTT though.

TrapperChamonix · 03-07-2015 9:39am

FixdePitchmark wrote: »

I was thinking ( too much)

Could you get a golfer - reduce every aspect of his routine and see score change,

( there would be an initial period to be ignored - such a change in his game)

But after ten games - these guys could have same score and speed up by 25%

Should everyone in golf be tolerating a reduction in speed - for individual problems ?

Last year I played with a guy in his 70's. Scratch golfer in his day, still playing off 5 or 6. For full shots he never took a practice swing. TBH I kept having to apologise for talking during his shots as I instinctively throught they were practice shots.
Good junior golfers tend to be much more deliberate with their set up routines. It can be blamed of coaches, Bob Rotella, or watching the PGA, but it a stark difference in how they approach hitting the ball without any noticeable benefit

FixdePitchmark · 03-07-2015 10:38am

Ahhhh - I have no real issue.

But , if you look at the 20/30 things that cause slow play , this is one of the most infuriating.

If you put 2 practice swings, on a routine guy, who walks slow and freezes.
The routine to two practice swings is the most infuriating.

But in reality, the slow walker the worst of all.

Boskowski · 03-07-2015 10:42am

I sometimes take a practice swing for full shots, sometimes I don't. It depends on how comfortable I feel that day with what I'm doing. I don't do it for the sake of it.

I agree with all of the things being said about slow play, but I will also say one other thing. Golf is not a game where you just walk up to it and whack the ball. I can't think of another game where a meticulous setup is equally important to playing the game well. Even the best golfers in the world cannot do this instinctively. Maybe it works for them (and us) one day, but it doesn't work the next day let alone on an ongoing basis. The ball creeps back in our stance, our alignment starts to go off to the right. There's just two examples I have to pay attention to myself or else it goes off on me.

I'm not a slow golfer, but I pay attention to what I'm doing. I try to apply myself and whatever 10 seconds I 'waste' by picking my line, walking up from behind, maybe taking a practice swing... I'm saving it tenfold by not having to play that extra shot from 20 yards right of the green let alone rummage around in the shrubs or whatever. Thats not saying I never find myself off the green, but what I'm trying to say is that careless setup will produce careless shots, producing poor results resulting in more shots played overall.

Edit: Having said that I think it is important to pay attention what goes on around you. I have most of that stuff done when its my turn to play the ball. i walk briskly, I leave my bag in the right spots, I have my putt sussed out by the time its my turn etc. They are the things that really annoy me when people don't pay attention to them.

yipsnomore · 03-07-2015 10:59am

FixdePitchmark wrote: »

Ahhhh - I have no real issue.

But , if you look at the 20/30 things that cause slow play , this is one of the most infuriating.

If you put 2 practice swings, on a routine guy, who walks slow and freezes.
The routine to two practice swings is the most infuriating.

But in reality, the slow walker the worst of all.

Yes its what catches your attention alright but the problem is always what he was doing leading up to the ball. Anyway its been covered ad nauseam. TBH we are worse for talking about it but doing nothing.

Senna · 03-07-2015 11:00am

I take two practice swings on every shot, didn't ever think of it as slowing me down, it's my routine.

ChippingSodbury · 03-07-2015 11:22am

I take a practice swing for most shots but I don't take the time to line up, all the waggles etc. pause before swinging and all that for the practice so it doesn't take more than a couple of seconds. The things that really slow down a round are:

Treating a practice swing like it's your real shot and taking ages before swinging, waggles etc.
Not being ready to hit your shot when your partner has already hit (e.g. only measuring distance when it's your turn, not having club chosen etc.)
Walking slowly
Not playing a provisional if a ball is in danger (incidentally, if you decide to walk back to play a prov., your ball is declared lost at that point even if your partners find it within the 5 mins)

From the time "it's your shot" to actually striking the ball should take < 10 seconds. If everyone's routine in a 3-ball is 10 seconds slower: that's 10 X approx 75 / 60 seconds = 37.5 minutes
If you take 1 minute longer to walk each hole because of slow walking, that's another 18 minutes. Suddenly, that's an hour longer to play a round without ever having to look for a ball.

FixdePitchmark · 03-07-2015 11:28am

Senna wrote: »

I take two practice swings on every shot, didn't ever think of it as slowing me down, it's my routine.

Well fair enough - but some guys with 2 practice swings also have many other things in this routine.

I think we are in trouble when as amateurs we think we should have a routine. Ok, I'll go back on that and say - People think they have a routine, it becomes the norm, then add to it, then add to it. There is no - ok is any of this of value.

I think a golf shot should be less than 10 seconds. Do anything you want in that 10 seconds.

ChippingSodbury · 03-07-2015 11:30am

FixdePitchmark wrote: »

I think a golf shot should be less than 10 seconds. Do anything you want in that 10 seconds.

Well said:)

Ben1977 · 03-07-2015 11:32am

How long does a practice swing take? A second? That's not slowing the game down

FixdePitchmark · 03-07-2015 11:33am

ChippingSodbury wrote: »

I take a practice swing for most shots but I don't take the time to line up, all the waggles etc. pause before swinging and all that for the practice so it doesn't take more than a couple of seconds. The things that really slow down a round are:
Treating a practice swing like it's your real shot and taking ages before swinging, waggles etc.

Not being ready to hit your shot when your partner has already hit (e.g. only measuring distance when it's your turn, not having club chosen etc.)

Walking slowly

Not playing a provisional if a ball is in danger (incidentally, if you decide to walk back to play a prov., your ball is declared lost at that point even if your partners find it within the 5 mins)

From the time "it's your shot" to actually striking the ball should take < 10 seconds. If everyone's routine in a 3-ball is 10 seconds slower: that's 10 X approx 75 / 60 seconds = 37.5 minutes
If you take 1 minute longer to walk each hole because of slow walking, that's another 18 minutes. Suddenly, that's an hour longer to play a round without ever having to look for a ball.

That is a good one, there are some guys you have to say this to - even when it clearly is.

They don't like anything happening on the earth until the runway is clear for their full 360 walk routine.

galwaylad14 · 03-07-2015 11:42am

As someone else said I'm not sure if the thread is about slow play or practice swings. I take one anyway on all full shots. Always have. Take maybe 2 or 3 before I chip and always 3 before I putt. No particular reason but I think if I like the feel of it then it gives me a bit of confidence to hit the shot. If I hate the feel of it then I can think "well thankfully I didn't put that swing on the ball". So I think either way it helps me a little.

Though having said that when I'm at the range I obviously don't bother with practice swings as it would just take too long then and I hit the ball at least as well on the range as I do on the course so I presume I could easily enough adjust to playing without a practice swing if I had to.

Don't really think they slow the game down once the player transitions quickly between the practice swing to the actual swing.

redzerdrog · 03-07-2015 12:38pm

I alway take a practive swing and mostly 2 practice swings. Helps me get the club the right lenght in my grip as I used to have a bad problem of hitting about 4 inches beofre the ball.

I am certainly not slow and I play with a fella who doesn't take any practice swings yet spends more time lineing up a shot and is far slower overall

Jawgap · 03-07-2015 12:48pm

I always take one practice swing, sometimes two (on a tee or if it's a tricky shot) just to ease any tension.

I also always try to be at my ball, with club in hand and ready to play - it does my head in to see a group amble down the fairway to the first ball, then amble as a group to the second one etc. It's fine if you've the course to yourself, but if it's busy there should be more consideration.

People who take forever to line up a putt - walking from one side to the other etc then back again - do serve as a source of some irritation. I get it when you have a gettable 12 footer, but when your 50 feet on an undulating links green?

ChippingSodbury · 03-07-2015 12:58pm

redzerdrog wrote: »

I am certainly not slow and I play with a fella who doesn't take any practice swings yet spends more time lineing up a shot and is far slower overall

Jawgap wrote: »

I also always try to be at my ball, with club in hand and ready to play - it does my head in to see a group amble down the fairway to the first ball, then amble as a group to the second one etc.

It really does boil down to "how long does it take you to play your shot when it's your turn". < 10 seconds and nobody will complain.
I've seen plenty who you'd think they were in contention on the last day of The Open because they take so long. I played with a young lad last year who, before every long shot, put the club along his back before addressing his ball so that his posture would be good. I nearly felt like shoving the club up his h*le to help him with his posture!!

WacoKid · 03-07-2015 1:05pm

I find that too much time is spent where other players won't break the "game line". By this I mean they stand behind the first ball they reach after their tee shots etc. and don't move forward to their own ball until that ball is played, and so on.

For example, if you are 60 yards further up in the fairway/rough etc. the walk on ahead and start looking/preparing for your shot. Only if you are in direct line of the person behind should you be cautious...and that don't happen too often.

In my opinion this is wher real time can be saved.

Also, if another player is looking for their ball and yours is close by, hit your shot while they have an initial look and then help them afterwards.

Dr_Colossus · 03-07-2015 1:12pm

ChippingSodbury wrote: »

[*]Not playing a provisional if a ball is in danger (incidentally, if you decide to walk back to play a prov., your ball is declared lost at that point even if your partners find it within the 5 mins)

Just for clarity on the incidentally comment above as it's often unknown or misinterpreted. Had a long arguement with two playing partners in a JSC last year where after a couple of minutes search we couldn't find my ball in the semi rough. I said I'd go back to the tee to hit another but that if they found it to let a roar. Hit the second ball off the tee and when approaching it to play my 4th shot my partners on the day were adamant I could pick it up and play the first ball they'd found while I was making my way back to the tee.

Once the 2nd ball left the tee that was then the ball in play and I had no option to play the 1st now found ball. I could have tee'd it up and prepared to strike it and had my then playing partners indicated they'd found the ball I could have picked it up and proceeded back to the 1st ball once under the 5 mins.
If however the previous shot was from anywhere other than the tee box once I had gone back and dropped the ball that was then the ball in play so even if my partners and shouted before I'd played another shot it was too late and I'd no choice but to continue with the 2nd dropped ball.

Bit of a derail of the tread but thought it was worth clarrifying as my two playing parterns that day were adamant I was wrong and couldn't understand why I wouldn't play the first ball when they found it. Made for a bit of an awkward moment even though they were trying to help my score.

ChippingSodbury · 03-07-2015 1:53pm

Dr_Colossus wrote: »

Just for clarity on the incidentally comment above as it's often unknown or misinterpreted. Had a long arguement with two playing partners in a JSC last year where after a couple of minutes search we couldn't find my ball in the semi rough. I said I'd go back to the tee to hit another but that if they found it to let a roar. Hit the second ball off the tee and when approaching it to play my 4th shot my partners on the day were adamant I could pick it up and play the first ball they'd found while I was making my way back to the tee.

Once the 2nd ball left the tee that was then the ball in play and I had no option to play the 1st now found ball. I could have tee'd it up and prepared to strike it and had my then playing partners indicated they'd found the ball I could have picked it up and proceeded back to the 1st ball once under the 5 mins.
If however the previous shot was from anywhere other than the tee box once I had gone back and dropped the ball that was then the ball in play so even if my partners and shouted before I'd played another shot it was too late and I'd no choice but to continue with the 2nd dropped ball.

Bit of a derail of the tread but thought it was worth clarrifying as my two playing parterns that day were adamant I was wrong and couldn't understand why I wouldn't play the first ball when they found it. Made for a bit of an awkward moment even though they were trying to help my score.

I don't think that's quite correct. You cannot play a provisional once you start to go forward to to your ball. See here: http://www.randa.org/en/Playing-Golf/Quick-Guide-to-the-Rules/Ball-Lost-or-Out-of-Bounds-Provisional-Ball.aspx
In particular this piece:
If, after playing a shot, you think your ball may be lost outside a water hazard or out of bounds you should play a provisional ball. You must state that it is a provisional ball and play it before you go forward to search for the original ball.

Your partners were definitely wrong though

Seve OB · 03-07-2015 2:21pm

Most of the time I take practice swing(s). And a good few of them when I'm chipping.

I use them to get into my head what I should be doing, stance, ball position, follow through, etc... things I have trouble with that I should be correcting. If I don't do them, and just stand up and hit, then I could most likely end up in trouble. Looking for a ball, playing provo, knocking one back into play will all add up to being slower than taking a couple of practice swings. If my head is right, I will hit the ball fine. Problem is my head is not always right :rolleyes:

I take a good few swings when chipping close to the green to gauge how hard or soft I need to hit the ball.

I might be slow over the ball, but I'm not a slow golfer. I hit and walk to my ball. I get there early and use this time to prepare. I will be ready to hit when my playing partner hits. I don't hang around waiting, i move while they are hitting (as long as I am not interfering)

You have played with me Fix though so maybe I am... you tell me.

You want slow.... played with 2 guys last week who insisted on marking 12inch putts, correct batting order every single shot. it was torturous.

ForeRight · 03-07-2015 2:33pm

I only practice swing over a delicate shot around the green to get a good rhythm or when I have an awkward shot where by I'm hampered by something. Off the tee, fairway or rough in the open I just prefer to hit it straight away.

I always find it mad when lads have a stupid practice swing routine and then spray the ball all over the place.

Just get on with it!

Mr.Goodman · 03-07-2015 3:36pm

I would always take 2 practice swings on my first shot of the day,but after that i would only take 1 practice swing except for short pitches and chips where i might take 2 swings.

But I would be a fast golfer as I would walk fast and I would prepare my shot while my playing partners are taking their shots.

But if I were playing with some one who did take 3 or more practice swings I would not mind if most of their shots were of good quality but I would get annoyed if most of their shots were shanks or duffs.

benny79 · 03-07-2015 3:47pm

I been told by numerous pros to have a pre-shot routine and stick to it which must people would agree practice swings. The first couple of hole probably be 2/3 swings then picture shot walk up pull trigger. The 2/3 at start is mainly to warm up, but after the first 2/3 holes its normally 1 swing behind ball, vision shot, walk in , pull trigger. The quicker I do it the better less time to thing!

Here's a question for you lads? When putting would you always look behind the ball & then look between flag/hole and ball?

I never used to but have since started (quickly I might add why someone is putting) as I get a better read. My biggest weakness is reading putts!

FixdePitchmark · 03-07-2015 4:05pm

Ah don't mind me lads - was in bad mood.

I use to hate slow play , but life is a bit too short.

In fact, I'm a much much slower player versus a year ago. I have way more routine in everything.

I think part of the problem , is in a golf shot - your time perception gets altered , you don't even know you are slow.

So - I'll admit it - I'm now a slow gofer, versus what I was.

All these little things are only nice to have - not sure the long routines are improving many of the guys I see - but would still play golf with anyone, I'd rather a slow golfer versus an angry golfer.

I think the key is to just walk fast, and be puropsefull in all actions. But sadly , some lads are just not built that way , even starting to walk takes longer, is funny to watch.

But you know what - they will die old and happy. So fair play to them in a way.

Just seen my daughter cycle for first time on her own - so in a very good mood now.

Dr_Colossus · 03-07-2015 4:17pm

FixdePitchmark wrote: »

I'd rather a slow golfer versus an angry golfer.

Very true, would make a good thread on it's own, angry golfers.
I'll be the first to admit I occasionally loose the head with a litany of expletitives directed at myself. It's something I try and minimise but people taking out their frustrations physically on their gear and the course can seriously dampen the mood and create an awkward atmosphere.

FixdePitchmark · 03-07-2015 4:38pm

Dr_Colossus wrote: »

Very true, would make a good thread on it's own, angry golfers.
I'll be the first to admit I occasionally loose the head with a litany of expletitives directed at myself. It's something I try and minimise but people taking out their frustrations physically on their gear and the course can seriously dampen the mood and create an awkward atmosphere.

Does - in fact, actually ruins my game a bit.

Practice Swings ? (Why)

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