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Stop family from giving a religious funeral

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24

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    #32
    CptMackey
    Registered Users Posts: 1,783 ✭✭✭CptMackey


    Pick a funeral director and put your wishes in writing with them. Get a copy and give it to your solicitor.


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    #33
    Eeden
    Registered Users Posts: 17,912 ✭✭✭✭Eeden


    jon1981 wrote: »
    This is ridiculous, you'll be dead! You will cease to exist. Why do you care?

    Let those left behind grieve and celebrate your life.

    Quite a selfish act in my view.

    What about if you want to leave your body for research, not because you want to make a statement about your religion/lack of religion or deny your loved ones their preferred way of mourning, but because you actually believe that this would be a really good use of your corpse, i.e. furthering medical understanding of human health?

    If you want to take this to its conclusion, you could even be said to be helping your left-behind loved ones to possibly live a longer, happier life.

    If you make your family aware that this is why you want to do it, then it really can't be called selfish.


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    #34
    nozzferrahhtoo
    Registered Users Posts: 9,336 ✭✭✭nozzferrahhtoo


    Chris___ wrote: »
    When I die I want my remains to be donated to the Royal College of Surgeons to be used by them and then disposed of.

    I don't want a funeral, head stone whatever and I know when I die my family will want to do all this. I'm an atheist and they're all bible thumping conservative Catholics.

    Is there anyway to stop this happening? I don't want a mass I don't want prayers or flowers and I know it sounds pretty selfish but my body/organs are more use to society than rotting in a box 6ft under.

    If there is anyway to look after your own remains, there is only one way to be sure of it.

    Make sure you leave friends behind who will do it just right

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CkxCHybM6Ek


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    #35
    endacl
    Registered Users Posts: 22,232 ✭✭✭✭endacl


    lazygal wrote: »
    A will often isn't read until long after you're dead. So I wouldn't leave that as your direction after death and it's easy to ignore such wishes anyway. All you can do is make sure you're not eligible for a Catholic sacrament like a funeral by getting yourself excommunicated.

    Rather a simple process, as it happens. Simply drop the phrase "Jesus' foreskin" into conversation, and you're automatically out.

    Strange, but true.


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    #36
    branie2
    Registered Users Posts: 10,292 ✭✭✭✭branie2


    there is a two-part documentary on donating your body to science starting this Thursday on RTE 1


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    #37
    cooker3
    Registered Users Posts: 6,646 ✭✭✭cooker3


    sillysmiles wrote: »
    Surely a funeral is more about the people left behind and while you can talk to your family/next of kin as to your wishes surely once you are dead, you are dead, and what ever eases the pain of those left behind is the most important thing not stomping your foot and making it about the disposal of decaying tissue?

    I look upon it as the opposite. My funeral, my rules. I see funerals/end of life services as all about the person who passed, their personality and wishes. If you respected them as a person when alive you should be able to deal with whatever wishes they had.

    In the same respect if someone I know who dies is a hardcore christian, muslim or whatever I have no issue attending their service or respecting those wishes.


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    #38
    Cantremember
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,305 ✭✭✭Cantremember


    The emerging value of this thread is that it may be revealing the need to copper fasten legally the right to dictate ones funeral rites. (For the benefit of the law students present save yourselves some typing, this is about change, not interpretation...got it? And yes we can all see difficulties but that's part of anything so don't be frightened. )


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    #39
    Fear123
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 9 ✭Fear123


    when I die, I want people to bury me in a grave. The grave should not exist any graveyard associated with religion. It should be a unique location. My remains will fertile the soil and a tree of knowledge will grow. Its shadow protect people against they rays of Sun. People will rest in its shadows. It will bring oxygen to the people of land of dust. But there is problemito, beware of the old serpent in that tree.


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    #40
    Peregrinus
    Registered Users Posts: 26,056 ✭✭✭✭Peregrinus


    Cantremember wrote: »
    The emerging value of this thread is that it may be revealing the need to copper fasten legally the right to dictate ones funeral rites. (For the benefit of the law students present save yourselves some typing, this is about change, not interpretation...got it? And yes we can all see difficulties but that's part of anything so don't be frightened. )
    Ah, but who would enforce this on your behalf after your death?


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    #41
    BarryD
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,917 ✭✭✭BarryD


    OP and others might consider this place if you're looking for a site to locate your remains: http://www.greengraveyard.com/index.php/woodbrook

    Edited to add: discussion re donating bodies on Sean O'Rourke RTE1 this morning, promo for some sort of TV documentary coming up this week.


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    #42
    Cantremember
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,305 ✭✭✭Cantremember


    Peregrinus wrote: »
    Ah, but who would enforce this on your behalf after your death?

    Ah, but that could be established. Ah.


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    #43
    Turtwig
    Registered Users Posts: 26,578 ✭✭✭✭Turtwig


    I'll move this stuff to a new thread later.


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    #44
    SameDiff
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 145 ✭✭SameDiff


    The whole point of the OP's post is so juvenile. It is to 'stick one in the eye' of his "bible thumping catholic conservative" family, like some protest against catholicism.....when he's dead.

    Is is quite pathetic. I hope he is in his early teens for his sake.

    I am not a catholic myself, but so what.

    This whole forum is laughable, a group of people congratulating and back-slapping each other on what they DON'T believe in.


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    #45
    Peregrinus
    Registered Users Posts: 26,056 ✭✭✭✭Peregrinus


    SameDiff wrote: »
    The whole point of the OP's post is so juvenile. It is to 'stick one in the eye' of his "bible thumping catholic conservative" family, like some protest against catholicism.....when he's dead.
    Seems a bit harsh.

    He cares about how he is remembered and mourned when he dies. He's hardly alone in caring about that.

    You might argue that it's irrational for an atheist materialist to care about this - how can the form of his funeral possibly affect him when he doesn't even exist? And perhaps on one view it is irrational. But it's also extremely human. Atheists are allowed a bit of human sentiment and human vanity as much as the next bloke.
    SameDiff wrote: »
    This whole forum is laughable, a group of people congratulating and back-slapping each other on what they DON'T believe in.
    If you find the forum so laughable, I wonder why you take the time to post to it? It seems to me that the nature, varieties and implications of non-religious views of the world and our place in it are as much worth discussion as religious views are.


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    #46
    Cantremember
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,305 ✭✭✭Cantremember


    Peregrinus wrote: »
    Seems a bit harsh.

    He cares about how he is remembered and mourned when he dies. He's hardly alone in caring about that.

    You might argue that it's irrational for an atheist materialist to care about this - how can the form of his funeral possibly affect him when he doesn't even exist? And perhaps on one view it is irrational. But it's also extremely human. Atheists are allowed a bit of human sentiment and human vanity as much as the next bloke.


    If you find the forum so laughable, I wonder why you take the time to post to it? It seems to me that the nature, varieties and implications of non-religious views of the world and our place in it are as much worth discussion as religious views are.

    Starting in reverse order:
    Extraordinary to see a supernaturalist claim that "atheists are allowed". Very revealing. Of course how you are remembered won't affect you either once you're dead because you won't know. The point is that the arrogance of a religion that can reclaim someone's funeral and claim to have some magical effect of interceding with a god through its words when the dead person regarded that stuff as nonsense, that arrogance is mind boggling. It's not confined to the RCC btw. It's not irrational to wish that your human body be disposed of as you wish: it simply extends the oppostion to supernaturalists to the disposal of your remains.


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    #47
    Cantremember
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,305 ✭✭✭Cantremember


    SameDiff wrote: »
    The whole point of the OP's post is so juvenile. It is to 'stick one in the eye' of his "bible thumping catholic conservative" family, like some protest against catholicism.....when he's dead.

    Is is quite pathetic. I hope he is in his early teens for his sake.

    I am not a catholic myself, but so what.

    This whole forum is laughable, a group of people congratulating and back-slapping each other on what they DON'T believe in.

    To help you along:
    Chris___ wrote: »
    When I die I want my remains to be donated to the Royal College of Surgeons to be used by them and then disposed of.

    I don't want a funeral, head stone whatever and I know when I die my family will want to do all this. I'm an atheist and they're all bible thumping conservative Catholics.

    Is there anyway to stop this happening? I don't want a mass I don't want prayers or flowers and I know it sounds pretty selfish but my body/organs are more use to society than rotting in a box 6ft under.

    You dismiss this part of his OP. You said "it is quite pathetic" about his OP. You hardly meant this too?

    To understand the backlash against the RCC in Ireland you have to understand the way it claimed to govern every aspect of people's lives. The older generation who have stepped out from its beliefs find it extraordinary that they ever suffered it and want, even in death, to assert their independence of it.


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    #48
    robindch
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 24,399 Mod ✭✭✭✭robindch


    SameDiff wrote: »
    This whole forum is laughable [...]
    Instead of writing something laughable, why not contribute something worth reading?


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    #49
    SameDiff
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 145 ✭✭SameDiff


    robindch wrote: »
    Instead of writing something laughable, why not contribute something worth reading?

    You are a mod of atheists and skeptics. What are you here to discuss? You have the absence of an opinion, you believe in nothing.

    What is your motive here? To shout down what others believe in? What difference does it make to you? Why aren't you over in the paranormal forum slagging them off too? Is it just the religious you enjoy harassing?


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    #50
    Pherekydes
    Registered Users Posts: 16,110 ✭✭✭✭Pherekydes


    SameDiff wrote: »
    You are a mod of atheists and skeptics. What are you here to discuss? You have the absence of an opinion, you believe in nothing.

    What is your motive here? To shout down what others believe in? What difference does it make to you? Why aren't you over in the paranormal forum slagging them off too? Is it just the religious you enjoy harassing?

    There is a thread set up specifically to give feedback on the forum. It's called A&A feedback.

    Having said that, this is a forum for atheists and agnostics. We don't harass anyone about their beliefs. We discuss topics that we find interesting or important.

    Also, to describe someone as believing in nothing is quite incorrect, but to then further conflate that with them having no opinion is just provocatively offensive.

    For the record, we tend to believe in facts and testable hypotheses and evidence.

    And if you stick around you'll find we have opinions on everything!


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    #51
    Turtwig
    Registered Users Posts: 26,578 ✭✭✭✭Turtwig


    SameDiff wrote: »
    You are a mod of atheists and skeptics. What are you here to discuss? You have the absence of an opinion, you believe in nothing.

    What is your motive here? To shout down what others believe in? What difference does it make to you? Why aren't you over in the paranormal forum slagging them off too? Is it just the religious you enjoy harassing?


    Mod:
    Hi,

    Here's a slight suggestion, if you want your time on this forum, nay, this website, to be a long and productive one don't tell others what their opinions are. Listen and communicate with them.

    This isn't your personal soapbox. One more post like this and you'll be taking a holiday.


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    #52
    lazygal
    Registered Users Posts: 12,644 ✭✭✭✭lazygal


    Pherekydes wrote: »
    There is a thread set up specifically to give feedback on the forum. It's called A&A feedback.

    Having said that, this is a forum for atheists and agnostics. We don't harass anyone about their beliefs. We discuss topics that we find interesting or important.

    Also, to describe someone as believing in nothing is quite incorrect, but to then further conflate that with them having no opinion is just provocatively offensive.

    For the record, we tend to believe in facts and testable hypotheses and evidence.

    And if you stick around you'll find we have opinions on everything!

    Does this mean we're allowed to discuss Hawaiian pizzas again????


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    #53
    Shrap
    Registered Users Posts: 3,163 ✭✭✭Shrap


    lazygal wrote: »
    Does this mean we're allowed to discuss Hawaiian pizzas again????

    Hawaiian pizzas FTW!! YUM. All hail the Hawaiian, in all it's pineappley goodness.






    Sorry, any excuse to nail my colours to the mast....


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    #54
    Peregrinus
    Registered Users Posts: 26,056 ✭✭✭✭Peregrinus


    Cantremember wrote: »
    Starting in reverse order:
    Extraordinary to see a supernaturalist claim that "atheists are allowed". Very revealing.

    What’s extraordinary about it? What does it reveal? Did you, until now, suppose the religious believers all held atheists to be incapable of sentiment, feeling, or common humanity? If you did believe that, I’m very pleased to have revealed the truth to you.

    Cantremember wrote: »
    f course how you are remembered won't affect you either once you're dead because you won't know. The point is that the arrogance of a religion that can reclaim someone's funeral and claim to have some magical effect of interceding with a god through its words when the dead person regarded that stuff as nonsense, that arrogance is mind boggling.

    People believe something that you don’t believe that that’s arrogant? Forming your own opinions, and not subjecting them to the prior approval of Cantremember and those who think like him is arrogant now?

    Are you sure you’re not some kind of fifth columnist, whose objective is to make atheists look insecure?

    Cantremember wrote: »
    It's not irrational to wish that your human body be disposed of as you wish: it simply extends the oppostion to supernaturalists to the disposal of your remains.

    Ah, but by the time his funeral comes along it won’t be his human body, will it? Because, of course, dead people - non-existent people - can’t own or possess things. It will just be a disintegrating collection of molecules; if it belongs to anybody at all, which I doubt, it certainly won’t belong to a non-existing being like the late OP. What happens to it cannot affect the OP in any way, on account of him not existing.

    Which is why I say that from one perspective worrying about your own funeral is irrational. And I am not the first person in this thread to make the point; similar sentiments are expressed here and here and here and here. And as far as I know none of those posters are believers. By contrast with them, I’m quite sympathetic to the OP; I understand why he wants the funeral he wants, and I think he should have it. I am genuinely puzzled as to why you react so angrily to that.



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    #55
    Hotblack Desiato
    Registered Users Posts: 33,919 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    Ditch the FONT and COLOR tags will you??
    Peregrinus wrote: »
    People believe something that you don’t believe that that’s arrogant? Forming your own opinions, and not subjecting them to the prior approval of Cantremember and those who think like him is arrogant now?

    You completely misinterpret, or at least pretend to. Cantremember's post isn't hard to understand. The key words which you chose to ignore were when the dead person regarded that stuff as nonsense.

    It absolutely is arrogant, off the arrogance scale, busting the arrogance meter, to attempt to provide religious ritual to a deceased person who rejected it in life. It is disrespect of the worst order to the deceased and how they chose to live their life.

    If you can't or won't see that, there is zero point discussing the topic of this thread with you.

    Life ain't always empty.



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    #56
    Dionysius2
    Registered Users Posts: 342 ✭✭Dionysius2


    The great trust we had as a nation in religion has been destroyed. That's what comes through to me big time in this thread on body disposal.
    And a huge amount of the damage was inflicted by the enemy within, i.e. the church and it's 'chosen' representatives. The pursuit of religious ideals is bizarre too from time to time as shown by this person's family in the pursuit of their idea of religious respect. It is reminiscent in some ways of the madness of the dissidents in the NIreland situation.....i.e. they will seek to deliver a united country through mindless murder, maimings, criminal acts, utter chaos and the like regardless of what the majority feel should happen.
    As regards the OP in this instance......he/she must tell all the close relatives of the preference for body disposal. If those people exist in numbers then methinks you will be more likely to have your wish fulfilled. Methinks most families would not risk a row in denying the request.


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    #57
    Cantremember
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,305 ✭✭✭Cantremember


    Peregrinus wrote: »

    What’s extraordinary about it? What does it reveal? Did you, until now, suppose the religious believers all held atheists to be incapable of sentiment, feeling, or common humanity? If you did believe that, I’m very pleased to have revealed the truth to you.


    People believe something that you don’t believe that that’s arrogant? Forming your own opinions, and not subjecting them to the prior approval of Cantremember and those who think like him is arrogant now?

    Are you sure you’re not some kind of fifth columnist, whose objective is to make atheists look insecure?


    Ah, but by the time his funeral comes along it won’t be his human body, will it? Because, of course, dead people - non-existent people - can’t own or possess things. It will just be a disintegrating collection of molecules; if it belongs to anybody at all, which I doubt, it certainly won’t belong to a non-existing being like the late OP. What happens to it cannot affect the OP in any way, on account of him not existing.

    Which is why I say that from one perspective worrying about your own funeral is irrational. And I am not the first person in this thread to make the point; similar sentiments are expressed here and here and here and here. And as far as I know none of those posters are believers. By contrast with them, I’m quite sympathetic to the OP; I understand why he wants the funeral he wants, and I think he should have it. I am genuinely puzzled as to why you react so angrily to that.


    LOL. I left it to another to point out your deliberate twisting of what I wrote. :D


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    #58
    CramCycle
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,452 Mod ✭✭✭✭CramCycle


    The place that does cremations in Dublin with whatever ceremony you want seems ideal. No religious stuff, I have a speech for my mate to read, let anyone else say something if they wish, let people say goodbye and 'poof' in a cloud of smoke.

    At the OP if you have a funeral director chosen ( my parents seem to believe alot of people have this done before hand, I don't, ) leave your explicit instructions with them and tell your next of kin that they are handling the funeral arrangements.


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    #59
    Peregrinus
    Registered Users Posts: 26,056 ✭✭✭✭Peregrinus


    Hotblack Desiato wrote: »
    Ditch the FONT and COLOR tags will you??
    I don’t put them in. (And I don't see them on my owns screen. If I did, I would remove them.) Blame effing Microsoft, for whom a special circle in hell is reserved.
    Hotblack Desiato wrote: »
    You completely misinterpret, or at least pretend to. Cantremember's post isn't hard to understand. The key words which you chose to ignore were when the dead person regarded that stuff as nonsense.

    It absolutely is arrogant, off the arrogance scale, busting the arrogance meter, to attempt to provide religious ritual to a deceased person who rejected it in life. It is disrespect of the worst order to the deceased and how they chose to live their life.

    If you can't or won't see that, there is zero point discussing the topic of this thread with you.
    I do see the disrespect that you mention. But I think it’s reasonable to ask how this disrespect can possibly injure somebody who doesn’t exist? And why should we worry about something that cannot possibly injure us?


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    #60
    Peregrinus
    Registered Users Posts: 26,056 ✭✭✭✭Peregrinus


    Cantremember wrote: »
    LOL. I left it to another to point out your deliberate twisting of what I wrote. :D
    That was probably wise of you. :D


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    #61
    SparkySpitfire
    Registered Users Posts: 1,331 ✭✭✭SparkySpitfire


    I dunno, but if I die soon, I want my organs donated and I'd like to be cremated.

    Whether that's done in a religious ceremony or a secular one makes no odds to me. I spend my life learning about other cultures, funerary rites are for the LIVING, not the dead. This is a reoccurring theme. I'm an atheist and my family are Catholic but at the end of the day, I'll be dead. They're the ones dealing with their grief, not me. I wouldn't be so cruel to them to dictate how they should mourn me. How can you actually tell someone you love, what way to grieve?


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