Single life as a guy...

ancapailldorcha · 02-09-2014 11:02am

Piliger wrote: »

The OP was raising the issue of life as a single man, as opposed to wanting children. If you want children then don't stay single until you're 60

My point was that it may become an issue if you want kids depending on your circumstances.

Piliger wrote: »

My only comment to contribute to the thread is this. KEEP YOUR FRIENDS. I cannot stress this enough. It is so easy to allow them to drift away and lose them. Maybe they get married and are busy for years with children. No matter. Stay in touch a couple of times a year. They will come back in time and making new friends is never as satisfying or easy as when we are young.

The most time I've lived in one place since I moved to the UK for work is 18 months so I can easily see this becoming an issue.

LordNorbury · 02-09-2014 12:35pm

Deleted User wrote: »

You will never find someone who is perfect in every way and thats the trouble now. We all think we will and we keep looking because we have more options than our parents had. OD adds to this - you see people on sites for years!! Maybe they are just unlucky - or maybe they have their long checklist and every box needs to be ticked - be wary of that!

+ 100, total perfection seems to be the order of the day, especially when dating online. If you are on the most popular OD site in Ireland, you will see stunning looking girls who have been on the site for the last 5-6 years and are now cruising towards their 40's, if they are not already there. These are seriously attractive women, no kids, non smokers, with their own established careers, independent women, etc, basically they have every reason to not be on a dating website for 5 years straight, yet there there are!

You'd have to wonder why they have not been snapped up long ago, but you only need to go on a date with them to find out why. They will spend every minute that you are together, looking for a flaw in you. If it isn't 20 questions about your career or the car that you drive, it is "do you own where you live or are you renting?". I got wrote off recently on a date because I mentioned over dinner that I rented where I live as opposed to actually had a mortgage. This actually raised an eye brow on a date! The alternative (which would have been perfectly acceptable had I ticked the "property owner" box, would have been that I could have been 2 years in arrears on my mortgage and 100K in negative equity, but this would have been grand because I'd have ticked the little box in her head that needed to be ticked!).

I say I am "looking for a relationship", but secretly I am kind of not, not because I wouldn't like to have one, although it would have to be not hugely intense, but I could do exclusive, but I have come to understand that many people (and I include myself in this by the way!), who are single and in their 30's, they tend to be a bit broken and are often giving off vibes that they are highly uncomfortable with being single, I suppose I'm trying to say that I don't believe relationships are actually on offer or are obtainable once you are into the post 35 age category. That will sound like a huge sweeping and very general statement to make but in my view and more importantly in my experience, it is true. In my experience, this is something that is exclusively to do with being in your 30's, and considerably worsens when you get to 35 and beyond.

God I can't believe this discussion has lasted 30 something pages!

woodchuck · 02-09-2014 1:34pm

Ok I'm not a guy, but hope it's ok for me to post here

I've seen a lot of comments about not putting things on the long finger in terms of having kids etc. But I think people need to take into account that things don't always go according to plan. I'm a 29 year old woman, and if you'd asked me this time last year to predict my future, I would've thought I'd be engaged right now, married next year, and then still have plenty of time to think about kids in my early/mid thirties. However, that all got shot to sh1te and now I'm single again: "Do not pass go, do not collect $200".

I'm not even sure what point it is that I'm trying to make... don't judge others unless you've walked in their shoes maybe? Not that I think people here are being particularly judgemental, but I have experienced it in other walks of life. "Hurry up old girl, you won't be young forever" type of jibes. As if I'm not aware :rolleyes:

Even the most well laid plans can go off course, so whatever else just make sure that you're happy in your own skin.

beks101 · 02-09-2014 1:55pm

woodchuck wrote: »

Ok I'm not a guy, but hope it's ok for me to post here

I've seen a lot of comments about not putting things on the long finger in terms of having kids etc. But I think people need to take into account that things don't always go according to plan. I'm a 29 year old woman, and if you'd asked me this time last year to predict my future, I would've thought I'd be engaged right now, married next year, and then still have plenty of time to think about kids in my early/mid thirties. However, that all got shot to sh1te and now I'm single again: "Do not pass go, do not collect $200".

I'm not even sure what point it is that I'm trying to make... don't judge others unless you've walked in their shoes maybe? Not that I think people here are being particularly judgemental, but I have experienced it in other walks of life. "Hurry up old girl, you won't be young forever" type of jibes. As if I'm not aware :rolleyes:

Even the most well laid plans can go off course, so whatever else just make sure that you're happy in your own skin.

+1 on all of this. 'You can't hurry love' and all that jazz.

I’ve never been strategic when it comes to my love life and tbh I wouldn’t want to be, that’s not the kind of person I am. I feel things out in life, people included. That’s how I’ve been with my career, my friends, my travels, my general course in life - including men.

I’m 29 and in a relationship with a wonderful guy, but before I met him I dated all sorts of characters over years - none of whom would’ve been the right guy to settle down with and set up shop with. If that had happened, I’d be living a life that wasn’t quite designed for me. I’d get on with it and it would work, as with all things in life, but while I have the choice to work off my gut and true feelings as opposed to some five-year plan, that’s always the route that I will take. That’s who I am.

I agree that you have to be business-minded about many things to get to where you want to be, but I don’t agree that romantic love is one of those things. Until you meet someone that inspires all these desires in you to build a life together, I don’t think you can really approach it in a clinical way because it’s simply not a clinical process. At least for me. I’d rather be alone and childless, or go the sperm donor/adoption route if I decided that I really wanted kids, than project all these life plans on some guy I was only lukewarm about in a ‘you’ll do’ kind of way.

LordNorbury · 02-09-2014 2:47pm

woodchuck wrote: »

Ok I'm not a guy, but hope it's ok for me to post here

I've seen a lot of comments about not putting things on the long finger in terms of having kids etc. But I think people need to take into account that things don't always go according to plan. I'm a 29 year old woman, and if you'd asked me this time last year to predict my future, I would've thought I'd be engaged right now, married next year, and then still have plenty of time to think about kids in my early/mid thirties. However, that all got shot to sh1te and now I'm single again: "Do not pass go, do not collect $200".

I'm not even sure what point it is that I'm trying to make... don't judge others unless you've walked in their shoes maybe? Not that I think people here are being particularly judgemental, but I have experienced it in other walks of life. "Hurry up old girl, you won't be young forever" type of jibes. As if I'm not aware :rolleyes:

Even the most well laid plans can go off course, so whatever else just make sure that you're happy in your own skin.

This sounds exactly like me 5 years ago. 5 years ago I wanted a marriage, kids, family life. Fast forward 5 years and the idea of a marriage, kids and a family life, would actually seriously stress me out now...

If you strip away all the people throwing their oars in, and their regular commentary, with their: "when are you going to give us a day out?", or "you better get a move on as you won't be young for ever you know?", and all that stupid commentary that people seem to have to throw at single people, if you strip all that away and ask yourself, "do I really want the hassle and expense of trauma of having children in these crazy times we are living in?", I don't know how people ask themselves this question in these times we are living in, and come away with a yes answer.

Potatoeman · 02-09-2014 3:03pm

I dont think its a good idea to marry just for the sake of it but if its something you want, dont listen to people that say you have plenty of time. It undermines peoples agency. If you want it you should be trying to achieve it.

RainyDay · 02-09-2014 3:17pm

woodchuck wrote: »

Ok I'm not a guy, but hope it's ok for me to post here

I've seen a lot of comments about not putting things on the long finger in terms of having kids etc. But I think people need to take into account that things don't always go according to plan. I'm a 29 year old woman, and if you'd asked me this time last year to predict my future, I would've thought I'd be engaged right now, married next year, and then still have plenty of time to think about kids in my early/mid thirties. However, that all got shot to sh1te and now I'm single again: "Do not pass go, do not collect $200".

Very true - it's not just relationship issues. One in five couples will experience infertility. Like most people, we fecked around doing the travel thing and got the house sorted, and expected kids to arrive on tap as soon as we were ready. Our bodies had other ideas, and I was touching 40 when ours arrived, after five years of fairly challenging infertility processes including IVF. So I'm quite a bit older as a Dad than I'd like to be. The old joke about 'give God a laugh - tell him your plans' springs to mind (even for an atheist).

So don't assume that kids will arrive when YOU decide that you're ready.

Piliger · 02-09-2014 3:54pm

Wibbs wrote: »

In fairness a 35 year old woman is hardly a teenybopper and would usually have a fair amount of life experience behind her and it massively depends on the individual.

I worded that poorly. I didn't mean they don't have life experience. What I meant to say but didn't want to turn it into a tome ... was that they grew up in a different era ... they don't know the movies, music, life incidents, life history, culture etc etc etc that match my era or even close. While the physical infatuation lasts it is fine ... who cares. But after that, you sit chatting and you say ' remember that Doors album ? that movie Sean Connery made, Marne ? remember Dublin in the 70's ....? Duh .... nope :-)
That sounds ridiculous I know ... but it actually becomes a lot more important.

Piliger · 02-09-2014 4:05pm

LordNorbury wrote: »

I have come to understand that many people (and I include myself in this by the way!), who are single and in their 30's, they tend to be a bit broken and are often giving off vibes that they are highly uncomfortable with being single, I suppose I'm trying to say that I don't believe relationships are actually on offer or are obtainable once you are into the post 35 age category. That will sound like a huge sweeping and very general statement to make but in my view and more importantly in my experience, it is true. In my experience, this is something that is exclusively to do with being in your 30's, and considerably worsens when you get to 35 and beyond.

I understand your comment but it is as you say a sweeping generalisation. I had some similar experiences on OD. But they are the minority. The truth is that even a woman with that kind of attitude will drop if if the chemistry is there. If it's not, then the 'plan' dominates. Don't make the mistake of interpreting that the other way around.

The other truth of life is this. Life is complicated. And as we get older, life gets more and more complicated. Having a relationship becomes more complicated. Even a simple one. We develop habits, and prejudices and comforts and knit pickings and preferences and we ALL develop this kind of sh1te as we travel through life. So it becomes more difficult to tolerate other's sh1te unless we also develop an open and tolerant and compassionate attitude to other people.

Trouble is .. a lot of people don't bother their arses. They become intolerant and closed minded ... and then complain when they don't find a partner.

When your conversation starts to contain a sh1t load of 'I don't like people who ...' sentences, and 'I don't like when people do ...." sentences then you don't exactly come across as an attractive person to be with, and why on earth would someone want to spend time with you.

God I can't believe this discussion has lasted 30 something pages!

I am not in the least surprised. It is a massive issue for a massive number of people in today's society who are dating and looking for relationships at an older age than ever before in history.

Wibbs · 02-09-2014 9:22pm

Piliger wrote: »

I worded that poorly. I didn't mean they don't have life experience. What I meant to say but didn't want to turn it into a tome ... was that they grew up in a different era ... they don't know the movies, music, life incidents, life history, culture etc etc etc that match my era or even close. While the physical infatuation lasts it is fine ... who cares. But after that, you sit chatting and you say ' remember that Doors album ? that movie Sean Connery made, Marne ? remember Dublin in the 70's ....? Duh .... nope :-)
That sounds ridiculous I know ... but it actually becomes a lot more important.

Just goes to show how folks can differ P.

I'd be in the opposite camp. I tend to dislike nostalgia and reminiscing*. I actively prefer a different set of memories and culture to me. It's more stimulating for me and I learn so much more. I've always sought out different people to me(not just romantically), older, younger, different cultures and backgrounds. I'm very lucky with my mates that are around my age(48) that they're very diverse in views and it would be a bloody rare event where any one of us would start a convo with "remember when...".

Being with someone akin to a "mirror" to my own life experiences wouldn't be nearly so attractive for me. Indeed it would be the opposite, damn near a purgatory TBH. Over the years I've been more attracted to/ended up going out with foreign women and that's a helluva lot of the reason why(plus the locals can spot my BS from a thousand yards

). I need novelty, always have, likely always will do considering my male rellies tend to be like that too. My maternal grandfather got into Thin Lizzy and Zep in his late 70's and had a gra for the New York Dolls. I've an uncle in his early 70's that plays more video games than I ever have. Another rellie is learning French at 81. Another is a fiend for the interwebs and forums on all sorts of subjects.

Actually it's why I love a place like Boards(Though I've only very rarely ventured into the Oulwans & Oulfellas or all things retro forum. I just wouldn't fit in, nor get much from it). I can interact and learn from anyone. I don't know their age, or gender, or background most of the time and they don't know mine. I could be having a convo with a 19 year old transgender Welsh person who is convinced the moon landings were a hoax, or a 62 year old grandfather who digs Lego. I'm either agreeing or disagreeing, but I'm always learning. I think that's bloody fantastic.

*though for some reason I did have a short phase of it when I was 37. Christ knows why. Midlife crisis or somesuch. I think it was more personal circumstances at the time. Odd given I my GF was 13 years younger than me, but I switched on the oulfella gene in response to. I know why now, but it felt well odd

Knex* · 02-09-2014 10:04pm

Girl I went to school with, who's 23, just got engaged. Was a little shocked when I saw it, actually.

I couldn't even contemplate that, at all, to be honest. Can't even remotely get into that headspace.

Probably not at all relevant, but she used to get around quite a bit back in secondary school, and then she's the first that I know from my year of 100+ who has gotten engaged.

I just can't help but think that she is far too young to be committing herself like that, but I suppose we are all different. All I know is that I could think of few things worse for myself, relationship wise, right now.

tomwaterford · 02-09-2014 10:11pm

Knex. wrote: »

Girl I went to school with, who's 23, just got engaged. Was a little shocked when I saw it, actually.

I couldn't even contemplate that, at all, to be honest. Can't even remotely get into that headspace.

Probably not at all relevant, but she used to get around quite a bit back in secondary school, and then she's the first that I know from my year of 100+ who has gotten engaged.

I just can't help but think that she is far too young to be committing herself like that, but I suppose we are all different. All I know is that I could think of few things worse for myself, relationship wise, right now.

look it....well over half my year from school have kids or are engaged now....and im not that much older than you

*a large proportion of them are onto there second kid now:eek:

ongarboy · 03-09-2014 10:24am

Knex. wrote: »

Girl I went to school with, who's 23, just got engaged. Was a little shocked when I saw it, actually.

I couldn't even contemplate that, at all, to be honest. Can't even remotely get into that headspace.

20 years ago and more, it would have been fairly commonplace for many under 25s to be engaged or married (men and women). It is indeed rare nowadays and alien to most young people, particularly those who go onto 3rd level education to commit to marriage so young.

In relation to Lord Nordbury's comments about the challenges faced by being single post 35, I think, ironically and unfortunately, the feelings of being broken and uncomfortable of being single at that age is probably doing more harm to such individuals finding someone that the fact of just being single or older than 35.

I acknowledge for women, post 35, that there are biological challenges with ticking clocks etc, but for men I really believe a late 30s or 40something single guy who is very comfortable in his own skin, has no hang up about being single and does not project desperation vibes will still be considered an attractive commodity for many women. You might say such men would already have been snapped up and therefore would not be single but many men do not care to be tied down at all until they reach their 40s or maybe never get tied down at all if it so suits them.

My dad only met my mother when he was 39 and got married at 40. Should he have written himself off 5 years earler and become a monk? By all accounts, he played the field during his single days (still hearing anecdotes about that from his 80 year old friends today...!!:) but that just shows he was not one to be uncomfortable to be single until his 40s.

Gael23 · 03-09-2014 12:04pm

Agree with what ongarboy said about people being married later these days. My parents got married at 23 which is the same age as I am now, and 2 years later I was born. I couldn't imagine that myself.

DarByrne1980 · 03-09-2014 10:11pm

ryanf1 wrote: »

Agree with what ongarboy said about people being married later these days. My parents got married at 23 which is the same age as I am now, and 2 years later I was born. I couldn't imagine that myself.

either could I put I'm 34 now and starting to get worried, so are my parents I think

berrygood · 04-09-2014 8:29pm

Piliger wrote: »

I worded that poorly. I didn't mean they don't have life experience. What I meant to say but didn't want to turn it into a tome ... was that they grew up in a different era ... they don't know the movies, music, life incidents, life history, culture etc etc etc that match my era or even close. While the physical infatuation lasts it is fine ... who cares. But after that, you sit chatting and you say ' remember that Doors album ? that movie Sean Connery made, Marne ? remember Dublin in the 70's ....? Duh .... nope :-)
That sounds ridiculous I know ... but it actually becomes a lot more important.

The bit in bold - if you have nothing to talk about after the lust cools down, then I'd imagine there wasn't much there to start with. I'll give you the life history/incidents (to an extent), but music and films are not, thankfully, bound by the shackles of time. Most of the films, music and books I enjoy are (in some cases) decades before my time. That doesn't mean I can't appreciate them. I wouldn't close myself off to something, or someone, just because it was before my time.

Think it kinda comes down to the individual really. Hell, some 20 year olds have seen more of life than some 50 year olds.

I'd prefer to sample all of life and experience other people and other times. Keeps the mind fresh, I think.

Gael23 · 04-09-2014 9:46pm

DarByrne1980 wrote: »

either could I put I'm 34 now and starting to get worried, so are my parents I think

Age is a number. I know a guy got married last year at 45, she was 39, a year on they are expecting a baby any day now.

Pawwed Rig · 05-09-2014 6:03am

ryanf1 wrote: »

Age is a number. I know a guy got married last year at 45, she was 39, a year on they are expecting a baby any day now.

It really is not just a number when you consider the added risks of a woman over the age of 35 having children.

05-09-2014 9:33am

berrygood wrote: »

The bit in bold - if you have nothing to talk about after the lust cools down, then I'd imagine there wasn't much there to start with. I'll give you the life history/incidents (to an extent), but music and films are not, thankfully, bound by the shackles of time. Most of the films, music and books I enjoy are (in some cases) decades before my time. That doesn't mean I can't appreciate them. I wouldn't close myself off to something, or someone, just because it was before my time.

Think it kinda comes down to the individual really. Hell, some 20 year olds have seen more of life than some 50 year olds.

I'd prefer to sample all of life and experience other people and other times. Keeps the mind fresh, I think.

all the more reason why that 20 year old wouldn't suit that 50 year old! (nothing worse than an older person who is set in their ways and hasnt experienced a lot in life)

I tend to agree with berrygood and I think his point was that its not just the music and films thing..... its more being at the same (ish) stage of life. There is less pressure. I have been with younger and older people and at this stage feel more comfortable with just a 5 year difference either side. You're not trying to keep up or keep cool. If you're a woman you're not trying to look much younger and keep up with his age group. Guess I'm talking about long term stuff here.

LordNorbury · 16-09-2014 12:05pm

Just read this article, written by an Indo journalist in her mid 30's. It is interesting I think to see what are the well written thoughts of what I assume is a single woman in her mid 30's. The article only discusses her obvious upset at this stage, that she does not have any children:

Childless in my mid-30s. It's not how I imagined things panning out, but the best-laid plans rarely work out.

At 22, climbing the Fox Glacier in New Zealand, I recall the moment we were asked what our life ambition was, and I said, "To have a baby, surely it's the greatest gift of all." But then I went on more adventures, worked hard, partied harder and spent most of my prime child-bearing years hung over.
Western society is full of contradictions, constantly fighting against nature. As a female growing up in Ireland, where men and women are equal, we're brainwashed to put child bearing off.
"An unplanned pregnancy will ruin your life." The mantra was like an indoctrination. Yet it's widely known that the optimum age to conceive is between the ages of 18 and 25 - less complications, easier delivery and you've got more energy when your bundle of joy arrives.
Attending an all-girls' convent school, we were conditioned to study like robots and get enough points in the Leaving Cert to secure our first choice in the CAO. You then get the dream job, find the one, lose the one, only to face the pathetic realisation you're in your 30s and your window of opportunity may have vanished. A little beating heart beat inside you may never become a realisation. Time is running out.
We live in a bubble of choosing to ignore the very real statistics. Our societal pre-conditioning has a funny way of making us think we can have it all and that our bodies are invincible.
If you're under 30, you have a 90pc chance of getting pregnant. Leave trying for kids until you're 40, and you've only got a 40pc chance of conceiving.

The great fertility debate plays out in spectacular fashion when it comes to the world of celebrity. Leading Hollywood ladies have been fighting against nature for years, knowing that it could have an impact on their careers. Julia Roberts took time out to raise her twins and her career never fully recovered.
Recently wed Angelina Jolie is an exception to the rule. Her football team of kids almost enhanced her brand. Hooking up with Brad Pitt also strengthened her position as a super mom. "Brangelina and their brood of kids…" The power couple make having it all look so easy, but then again the normal Joe Soaps of the world don't have around-the-clock staff pandering to the needs of their offspring.
Paradoxically, Brad's ex, Jennifer Aniston, has lived her life plagued with questions on when she's getting married and reports even commenting on how her fertility is diminishing.
When Jen was spotted with cupping marks on her back last year, there was in-depth analysis on whether the ancient Asian therapy was in a bid to boost her fertility. Ever since she found love with fiance Justin Theroux, there have been reams of headlines about their dream to start a family.
Some A-listers have weathered the storm and made leaving it late look simple. Nicole Kidman, Gwen Stefani and Mariah Carey all gave birth in their 40s and now they're the poster girls of their generation - an ad for how you too can have it all. But Mother Nature has a funny way of sneaking up on us. Ironically, the very society which deems leaving pregnancy on the long finger the norm, is now fighting against nature, and friends of mine resorting to IVF, in a desperate attempt to turn back the clock, are 10 a penny. I've witnessed the devastation as some of their efforts are fruitless.
It's ironic that the society that turned us off conceiving has an uncanny way of making you feel less of a person for not having children. As I get older, it's hurting more and more when people ask me why I don't have kids. At times, it feels like I'm only half a human for not having a child. I recall when a close friend once said: "You'll never understand what I mean because you don't have children, you'll only get it when you become a mum yourself." Another uttered, "Nothing beats hugging my daughter, but you wouldn't understand."
Maybe they don't realise how lucky they are that they've been blessed with children. Having to focus on another human being makes you less selfish. I, for one, am so sick of myself that I relish the thought of becoming a mum one day.
That's tempered by the realisation that now, at 35, it may never happen. It begs the question: are we lesser beings if we don't procreate? Some people just don't want kids and that should be accepted too. I mean, there are enough children left wanting in the world and bizarre adoption regulations. I have a dog who I adore, but I need a licence for him - anyone can have a child if they're blessed. My only regret is I wish I had frozen my eggs!
- See more at: http://www.independent.ie/opinion/as-i-get-older-it-hurts-more-and-more-that-i-dont-have-kids-30589147.html#sthash.Lrk9xoa7.dpuf

http://www.independent.ie/opinion/as-i-get-older-it-hurts-more-and-more-that-i-dont-have-kids-30589147.html

Piliger · 16-09-2014 3:59pm

I don't find it of much interest at all. It is only indicative of one single person's viewpoint. Woman are many and varied and have a lot of different attitudes to this topic. Taking one and thinking that it reflects all women is a major mistake.

kiffer · 16-09-2014 5:25pm

I'm childless in my mid thirties too!
She really is living the life of a single man.

Potatoeman · 17-09-2014 4:25pm

LordNorbury wrote: »

Just read this article, written by an Indo journalist in her mid 30's. It is interesting I think to see what are the well written thoughts of what I assume is a single woman in her mid 30's. The article only discusses her obvious upset at this stage, that she does not have any children:

http://www.independent.ie/opinion/as-i-get-older-it-hurts-more-and-more-that-i-dont-have-kids-30589147.html

She was not brainwashed though. She made her own decision. She just had different priorities.

catallus · 17-09-2014 6:42pm

Take seven slebs names and fluff it out with 300 words?

I'd love her job.

riveratom · 17-09-2014 8:57pm

Interesting article and no doubt there are many more in the same boat..

beks101 · 17-09-2014 9:22pm

She had and has a good life. Far more opportunities and far better quality of life than the majority of young mothers in Ireland I would say. And she's 35. It's certainly not as fertile as 20 but it's not hopeless, impossible or out of the question for her to get knocked up and do the family thing now or a few years from now.

I've a cousin who met the love of her life at 38, got married a year later and is now expecting her first. My own mother had her third at 41. I'm 29, loved up but nowhere near it. It's still 'some day'. I'm simply not going to bring a child into the world when I'm not ready, emotionally, mentally, financially. And that's a decision I'm prepared to face the consequences of if I 'miss my window' - having kids is not the be all and end all for all women, as this journalist seems to believe.

Pug160 · 17-09-2014 10:08pm

I'll not argue with science as it's something we should all take very seriously, but IMO it's not responsible for people to scaremonger when it comes to topics like that. Far too many people have children too soon or with the wrong partners and have to face some harsh consequences as a result (as do the children). Encouraging people to panic is definitely not helpful whatsoever.

If someone is unfortunate enough to have waited too long but has led an otherwise decent life, I don't think they can complain too much.

Mokuba · 17-09-2014 10:09pm

beks101 wrote: »

She had and has a good life. Far more opportunities and far better quality of life than the majority of young mothers in Ireland I would say. And she's 35. It's certainly not as fertile as 20 but it's not hopeless, impossible or out of the question for her to get knocked up and do the family thing now or a few years from now.

I've a cousin who met the love of her life at 38, got married a year later and is now expecting her first. My own mother had her third at 41. I'm 29, loved up but nowhere near it. It's still 'some day'. I'm simply not going to bring a child into the world when I'm not ready, emotionally, mentally, financially. And that's a decision I'm prepared to face the consequences of if I 'miss my window' - having kids is not the be all and end all for all women, as this journalist seems to believe.

You might determine that she had a good life, but when she was on top of a mountain her main goal in life was to bring a child into the world. By her metric, she hasn't lived the life she wanted to live, and she is somewhat resentful towards being told she could have it all - it's almost like she bought into what many young women are told about enjoying your 20's and then settling down in your 30's.

For right or wrong, that simply isn't how it works. A recent study by OKCupid, showed that men are clearly after younger women - maybe it's biology, maybe it's evolutionary programming still in our brain, but men are looking for a woman between 20-24 in that study, which is when a women is at her most fertile. Now in no way am I trying to say all men are like that, but there is no point in telling women that they can have it every way. Some can, and do, and are extremely happy, but quite often many are lied to about what they can expect from life.

As for your point about older mothers, a cousin of mine was born to a 40 year old mother, and he had downsyndrome - absolutely no way would I personally even entertain the possibility of children with somebody of that age, it just increases the risks of complications exponentially.

And forgive me for being cynical, but the amount of people that just so happen to end up finding the love of their lives at 35+ is intriguing to say the least. Strange how before people found the love of their lives much earlier, like 10 years earlier. So much settling goes on because people are told to focus on their careers and "experience things"

You are free to live your life however you choose, but the author shouldn't expect what she really wanted to be there after 13 years of putting it off.

http://www.irishmirror.ie/female/sex-relationships/startling-dating-graphs-reveal-what-4194587

Pug160 · 17-09-2014 10:39pm

Mokuba wrote: »

You might determine that she had a good life, but when she was on top of a mountain her main goal in life was to bring a child into the world. By her metric, she hasn't lived the life she wanted to live, and she is somewhat resentful towards being told she could have it all - it's almost like she bought into what many young women are told about enjoying your 20's and then settling down in your 30's.

For right or wrong, that simply isn't how it works. A recent study by OKCupid, showed that men are clearly after younger women - maybe it's biology, maybe it's evolutionary programming still in our brain, but men are looking for a woman between 20-24 in that study, which is when a women is at her most fertile. Now in no way am I trying to say all men are like that, but there is no point in telling women that they can have it every way. Some can, and do, and are extremely happy, but quite often many are lied to about what they can expect from life.

As for your point about older mothers, a cousin of mine was born to a 40 year old mother, and he had downsyndrome - absolutely no way would I personally even entertain the possibility of children with somebody of that age, it just increases the risks of complications exponentially.

And forgive me for being cynical, but the amount of people that just so happen to end up finding the love of their lives at 35+ is intriguing to say the least. Strange how before people found the love of their lives much earlier, like 10 years earlier. So much settling goes on because people are told to focus on their careers and "experience things"

You are free to live your life however you choose, but the author shouldn't expect what she really wanted to be there after 13 years of putting it off.

http://www.irishmirror.ie/female/sex-relationships/startling-dating-graphs-reveal-what-4194587

Most people's lives don't revolve around statistics. If they did everything would be mind numbingly boring and there would be no spontaneity or fun or adventure. Climbing up mountains can be rather dangerous, as can riding a motorcycle, but we are fortunate enough to live in a free-ish society. Intelligent people assess risks and plan accordingly. If you want to play the morality card I could give you a million other examples that IMO are much worse than what you're against.

As for finding 'the love of your life' - I'd say that's rare at any age. Most people go through a few partners and never truly love anyone as deeply as that. Younger people would be more inclined to get together for superficial reasons, which is why those relationships often end when there's a large amount of supposed commitment.

Wibbs · 17-09-2014 11:27pm

Mokuba wrote: »

You might determine that she had a good life, but when she was on top of a mountain her main goal in life was to bring a child into the world. By her metric, she hasn't lived the life she wanted to live, and she is somewhat resentful towards being told she could have it all - it's almost like she bought into what many young women are told about enjoying your 20's and then settling down in your 30's.

There can be an element to that alright. Modern society and feminism does on the one hand make women's(and men's) lives better, but on the other hand and ironically can actually put more pressure on women. The "you can have it all" guff. Backed up by unrealistic media portrayals of women of the right shape, weight and lifestyle and with a few kids to boot. While I have serious issues with some aspects of US college Nouveau "feminism" to the point where I no longer describe myself as Feminist, I do see bloody huge pressure on women in this regard. Yes men have pressures too and to head off the whataboutery at the pass I acknowledge that and see it on a regular basis, but in two respects; body image and fertility, we among us who are blokes do have it easier and have less pressure on us from society. Far less.

For right or wrong, that simply isn't how it works. A recent study by OKCupid, showed that men are clearly after younger women - maybe it's biology, maybe it's evolutionary programming still in our brain, but men are looking for a woman between 20-24 in that study, which is when a women is at her most fertile. Now in no way am I trying to say all men are like that, but there is no point in telling women that they can have it every way. Some can, and do, and are extremely happy, but quite often many are lied to about what they can expect from life.

That is a part of it sure. Yes men given the choice will tend to select for younger women as a general thing. That's painting it in too reductionist a manner IMH. Yes men at 50 may generally say a 22 year old woman is their ideal, but the facts are that vanishingly few such 50 year old men could look at a 22 year old woman without her calling security. I'd also question that result in a big way. Maybe it's me being subjective, but given that my overwhelming relationship tendency has been with an age gap of at least 6 years all the way to 15 odd, I at nearly 50 wouldn't consider a 22 year old woman even if she was drunk/mad enough to consider me. That's not some imposed societal thing either. I might say and think she is gorgeous, but it would be in a very detached way. I'd find her a lot more gorgeous and sexy to me if she was 30 +(and that's still a big age gap).

As for your point about older mothers, a cousin of mine was born to a 40 year old mother, and he had downsyndrome - absolutely no way would I personally even entertain the possibility of children with somebody of that age, it just increases the risks of complications exponentially.

My personal experience goes the other way. My maternal grandmother had one of my uncles at 44 and he's knocking on the door of 80 and looks, acts and feels in his mid 60s. My paternal grandmother had her last at 42 and she's fine(and she in turn had her last at 40). A mate of mine had her first at 39 and her second at 42. Yes there is a sliding slope, but it so depends on the individual, their genetics and fitness and biological age. Put it another way lads, if you're having the regular sexeh time with a 40 year old woman who is fit and sexy and looks good "for her age" and you don't want kids, I'd wrap up the willie or you could become a daddy a lot easier than you may believe.

And forgive me for being cynical, but the amount of people that just so happen to end up finding the love of their lives at 35+ is intriguing to say the least. Strange how before people found the love of their lives much earlier, like 10 years earlier. So much settling goes on because people are told to focus on their careers and "experience things"

I would tend to agree with that alright M. I saw that on a regular basis going through my 30's. There was defo more of the "let's head to the burbs, buy white goods and nest" going on. With both the women and men, but especially the women. To the degree that it was almost a script where you knew how the next act was going to turn out. "Accident" pregnancy incidences were higher too. Quite the number of women I knew who had plenty of good clean fun in their 20's(and some not so clean

) and fair play, but with nary a pregnancy scare between them. Then between the ages of 30 and 35 suddenly became hyper fertile. It makes good biological sense though. Women are much more aware of their window of fertility. They're much more reminded of their fertility full stop(period if you're American). Every month they're reminded of it. We men don't have that to nearly the same degree. We really don't.

beks101 · 18-09-2014 12:27am

Of course if you survey a bunch of lads they're going to say they generally find younger women more attractive. Just as if you survey a bunch of women they'll say taller men are more attractive, or athletic men, or very confident men.

Does that mean that shorter men who don't pump iron every day and have the charisma/social command of Bill Clinton are doomed in their dating lives? No, it means that certain features in isolation are deemed more favourable to the opposite sex. Add in the 'dating site' component, which over-emphasizes these qualities anyway by its very nature and where a strong percentage of its users are looking to get laid. Of course that 22-year-old is the preferred candidate.

I don't really deal in statistics when it comes to these things anyway, my own personal experiences are all I care about. I get a lot more male attention now at 29 than I ever did at 22. I look at photos and see a more attractive woman now - my face has changed, it's slimmer and less 'cherubic', and my style is a lot sharper, a lot more together. I know who I am now and carry myself accordingly. And I'm far more comfortable in my sexuality. When I was 22, I seemed to exclusively attract a demographic of lads who very obviously just wanted to get their rocks off. Nowadays I get conversations, I get looked at and I get asked out. I'm in a relationship so it's all wasted anyway but it's an interesting observation to note.

And yes, people are generally finding the 'love of their lives' later in life these days. Because women have more freedom and more opportunities than they did yesteryear. It's not 'get married and set up shop the second school is out' anymore. We can further our education, build careers, travel, see the world. Husbands and babies aren't sold as the only option anymore; and yes, that comes at a price to some women. Does that mean that we should all be scaremongered into having babies before 30? Or indeed that it's wrong for people to settle a lot quicker into their 30s because they have decided it's time and they've found their partner in crime?

Relationships generally tend to evolve at a quicker rate the older you get anyway - you've met enough of the wrong men to know what 'right' looks like - and there's biology to think about. Cynicism doesn't come into it.

Tarzana · 18-09-2014 12:46am

It's an interesting conundrum. I think Kirsty Allsopp got too hard a time recently for stating that women should have children younger. I think what got people's backs up was that she has quite a privlieged background so is in some ways a bit oblivious to the freedoms she enjoyed compared to others. But she was right in ways, there is a conflict for ambitious women between chasing a career and having children, if having children is what they want. So many of my female friends and acquaintances are approaching their 30s or in their 30s and are single, and a good portion of them want kids. It leaves a smaller and smaller window to find someone and settle down to baby-making. Having kids after 35 is possible of course, but just not really advisable. I'm not saying they should settle, but I think there is such a thing as being way too picky. Nobody is perfect, including themselves! They need to put themselves out there, and chat to a wide variety of men, because you really never know who will end up beguiling you. :pac:

Potatoeman · 18-09-2014 10:28am

Tarzana wrote: »

It's an interesting conundrum. I think Kirsty Allsopp got too hard a time recently for stating that women should have children younger. I think what got people's backs up was that she has quite a privlieged background so is in some ways a bit oblivious to the freedoms she enjoyed compared to others. But she was right in ways, there is a conflict for ambitious women between chasing a career and having children, if having children is what they want. So many of my female friends and acquaintances are approaching their 30s or in their 30s and are single, and a good portion of them want kids. It leaves a smaller and smaller window to find someone and settle down to baby-making. Having kids after 35 is possible of course, but just not really advisable. I'm not saying they should settle, but I think there is such a thing as being way too picky. Nobody is perfect, including themselves! They need to put themselves out there, and chat to a wide variety of men, because you really never know who will end up beguiling you. :pac:

I think its important for them to look at it from the guys perspective. Im in my early thirties and meeting women on a timetable can be a real turn off. I wouldnt just have a child with someone I hadnt dated and then lived with for a few years.

Tarzana · 18-09-2014 11:21am

Potatoeman wrote: »

I think its important for them to look at it from the guys perspective. Im in my early thirties and meeting women on a timetable can be a real turn off. I wouldnt just have a child with someone I hadnt dated and then lived with for a few years.

Yeah, a few of my early 30s guy friends are the same. They want to meet women 30 or younger, because they don't want to be rushed. Which is totally fair enough. There is an imbalance there between the sexes once the 30s are hit. Not much can be done about it though.

Tarzana · 18-09-2014 11:22am

beks101 wrote: »

Relationships generally tend to evolve at a quicker rate the older you get anyway - you've met enough of the wrong men to know what 'right' looks like - and there's biology to think about. Cynicism doesn't come into it.

Ah, I don't know, I'd say for many women in their 30s, there is an element of cynicism alright, if you consider the bolded bit. Biology comes into it much more for women.

ancapailldorcha · 18-09-2014 12:16pm

Mokuba wrote: »

http://www.irishmirror.ie/female/sex-relationships/startling-dating-graphs-reveal-what-4194587

That's one of the worst articles I've read in a long time, even for a tabloid.

ghogie91 · 18-09-2014 12:42pm

Some great articals from the women there aswell as some horrible tabloid poop

But the reality (whether on point or not) is that the majority of women who are basically living the life of a man being single in their 30s is alot to do with self perception earlier on in life. If some, not all being tarred with the one brush, wernt so egotistical, self absorbed, posh dopes in their late mid to late 20s then they would probably be happily married into their 30s. No opportunities missed with children and probably a husband/boyfriend who is just starting to prosper in a career, with a family with a solid future.

Lads can be left and forgotten about, unfortunately the girls have more pull here that they can get a lad waaay easier than a lad can go and pull.

ongarboy · 18-09-2014 1:39pm

beks101 wrote: »

I don't really deal in statistics when it comes to these things anyway, my own personal experiences are all I care about. I get a lot more male attention now at 29 than I ever did at 22. I look at photos and see a more attractive woman now - my face has changed, it's slimmer and less 'cherubic', and my style is a lot sharper, a lot more together. I know who I am now and carry myself accordingly. And I'm far more comfortable in my sexuality. When I was 22, I seemed to exclusively attract a demographic of lads who very obviously just wanted to get their rocks off. Nowadays I get conversations, I get looked at and I get asked out. I'm in a relationship so it's all wasted anyway but it's an interesting observation to note.

I think Beks makes a really good point here about being a lot more together now that she is older and knowing who she is and carries herself accordingly and subsequently is getting a lot more attention now (albeit wasted!!

).

I guess I just want to say to single guys who are younger (20s etc), don't despair if you haven't found a partner yet. I think the insecurities that many of us feel when we are/were younger gradually disappear as we get older and more comfortable in our own skin. My resulting experience of this is also receiving far more attention or passes (direct and indirect) nowadays then I ever did and wished for in my single 20s. I' don't think I'm better looking (I'd assume I should be less so than in my more youthful 20s) although I much prefer the way I look, dress and carry myself now (I'm late 30s) then I ever did in my 20s. I think that's mainly due to confidence I've acquired and sense of self ease and contentment that was lacking when I was younger and which I think, translates into making you more appealing to others. (Again, a little wasted as I am also now attached!

)

This doesn't mean older singletons have missed the boat either. I think as we all mature, we should hopefully aspire to become more comfortable and content with who we are (and which indirectly and unwittingly makes us a more attractive human being to others - platonic or romantic) and which I think more than a lot of other aspects can help our chances of finding the right person for us. If not, then hopefully, we would be happy, content and at ease enough with ourselves, our own company and our own lot, that being single would not be such a terrible thing?

youngrun · 18-09-2014 3:27pm

Great thread, I wonder what people here think are the best options for single lads in mid thirties to do to meet women/potential partners etc. In my case I am a perennial lone wolf, solid enough fellow so i think !, good job /own business and active in sports , dont drink at all. Sounds great but have virtually no social circle, work is not one as have a small business and no social outlet, virtually all of the lads crew are settled with kids or working overseas, and while sports/etc is a possibility I play /train primarily male dominated environment .
I am not giving up hope yet, but find most weekends I am on my tod ie billy no mates ..! What to do ?

Potatoeman · 18-09-2014 3:35pm

ghogie91 wrote: »

Some great articals from the women there aswell as some horrible tabloid poop

But the reality (whether on point or not) is that the majority of women who are basically living the life of a man being single in their 30s is alot to do with self perception earlier on in life. If some, not all being tarred with the one brush, wernt so egotistical, self absorbed, posh dopes in their late mid to late 20s then they would probably be happily married into their 30s. No opportunities missed with children and probably a husband/boyfriend who is just starting to prosper in a career, with a family with a solid future.

Lads can be left and forgotten about, unfortunately the girls have more pull here that they can get a lad waaay easier than a lad can go and pull.

I think its easier for them when it comes to hook ups but not relationships. It may even be harder.

Piliger · 18-09-2014 3:43pm

youngrun wrote: »

Great thread, I wonder what people here think are the best options for single lads in mid thirties to do to meet women/potential partners etc. In my case I am a perennial lone wolf, solid enough fellow so i think !, good job /own business and active in sports , dont drink at all. Sounds great but have virtually no social circle, work is not one as have a small business and no social outlet, virtually all of the lads crew are settled with kids or working overseas, and while sports/etc is a possibility I play /train primarily male dominated environment .
I am not giving up hope yet, but find most weekends I am on my tod ie billy no mates ..! What to do ?

Well the first thing is to realise that nothing is going to change if YOU do not change

that may seem trite and obvious but it really isn't.
You own your own business so you may work long hours. You must change that or you simply won't have time to meet people.
You need to reflect on what are the things you like in life ... hobbies ... sports. ... activities ... subjects.
Then start searching for clubs and activity groups that engage in those. Again it may seem superficial to some but finding people with common interests is by far the best way to open up your social circle in order to meet more people. It's NOT necessarily about finding a GF among those clubs...... it's about meeting people THEY meet

Also - be more proactive to check in with mates you used to have that you don't meet with often. Suggest drinks. Suggest coffee. I don't drink alcohol either but I have spent my life in pubs, it's not an issue.
And more important than anything while you do these things is to shake yourself up a bit and say to yourself yes I am going to start being more outgoing ... friendly ... chatty ... smile !!!!

Best of luck.

beks101 · 18-09-2014 4:44pm

Jaguarpicante wrote: »

Who did you think you were at 22?

Wasn't great with the aul confidence, self-conscious around people especially men that I was attracted to, used attention as a form of validation so more likely to court relationships that were no good for me etc

That can affect your demeanour in the most profound way. It's really the difference between walking into a room with your head held high and chatting away to anyone and everyone, as opposed to walking in and feeling small and hugging the wall for the evening.

Tarzana · 18-09-2014 5:53pm

Jaguarpicante wrote: »

What do people define as cynicism?

It sounds like practicality to me.

I guess from the POV that some women who are desperate to have children are just basically looking for a sperm donor. Of course this is a generalisation, but it would certainly be the case for some. No man wants to just be viewed as a walking, talking sperm factory! :pac:

Piliger · 18-09-2014 6:34pm

Tarzana wrote: »

I guess from the POV that some women who are desperate to have children are just basically looking for a sperm donor. Of course this is a generalisation, but it would certainly be the case for some. No man wants to just be viewed as a walking, talking sperm factory! :pac:

In addition there was a time in the past when donating one for a single woman to have a child was an ok thing to do. Now it carries twenty years of child support along with other risks. No matter what the woman assures you at the time !!

Seriously? · 18-09-2014 6:41pm

Piliger wrote: »

Now it carries twenty years of child support along with other risks. No matter what the woman assures you at the time !!

In fairness that is not always because of the woman, sometimes the state forces the issue.

Piliger · 18-09-2014 6:57pm

Seriously? wrote: »

In fairness that is not always because of the woman, sometimes the state forces the issue.

Did anyone blame the woman ? :rolleyes:

Seriously? · 18-09-2014 8:24pm

It read like you where implying that the woman could be deceitful. My apologies if I misconstrued you.

Piliger wrote: »

No matter what the woman assures you at the time !!

Bafucin · 18-09-2014 8:57pm

I think men who are single who over think it are the most unhappy. I have been trying not to. I tend to 'need' to be with someone and can be very clingy and dependent. Even with friends and exes. I think perhaps I don't get enough emotional support from my family. Certainly my Dad was always a bit of a kid more than a Dad.

I think having family support and feeling that relationship is important. If family are abroad or the relationship is not that close I think then being single can actually be lonely. Friends can sometimes fill that 'love gap'. But my male mates are not exactly 'affectionate'.

The last couple of weeks have been tough for me with mental health issues and it was female mates who were the ones dispensing the hugs. I think men don't admit they need affection and love. It can be shown in certain ways by male friends but there is something missing.

Piliger · 18-09-2014 9:31pm

Seriously? wrote: »

It read like you where implying that the woman could be deceitful. My apologies if I misconstrued you.

Well I guess I may be doing that in part .. in that it is men and women who made the laws, but in the fullness of time ... she may change her mind when the child is four or fifteen .. and take you to court for all kinds of €€€, and there will be no defence in law.

Daisy78 · 18-09-2014 9:35pm

ghogie91 wrote: »

Some great articals from the women there aswell as some horrible tabloid poop

But the reality (whether on point or not) is that the majority of women who are basically living the life of a man being single in their 30s is alot to do with self perception earlier on in life. If some, not all being tarred with the one brush, wernt so egotistical, self absorbed, posh dopes in their late mid to late 20s then they would probably be happily married into their 30s. No opportunities missed with children and probably a husband/boyfriend who is just starting to prosper in a career, with a family with a solid future.

Lads can be left and forgotten about, unfortunately the girls have more pull here that they can get a lad waaay easier than a lad can go and pull.

I know you said "some" in your post as opposed to all but I think it reflects this myth that the media and in wider society that single women are living it up, postponing marriage and kids until the very last minute, when Prince Charming comes riding up on his horse to sweep her off her feet and has a well established career to show for her years of singledom. I have many single female friends in their early to mid thirties, all attractive, intelligent and kind individuals. I don't think a single one has actively lived their life with the intention of remaining single, in fact I'd say they have done everything possible to find meaningful relationships with men. Some were in long term relationships and got dumped, some just never had the opportunity to find love in the first place. When you spend too many disappointing weekends in row where you have put yourself out there hoping a nice guy might approach, or that the one who actually did approach and take your number would call (but never does) or that the nice guy at the bar might actually like to get to know you and not just want the leg over, well after a while you just stop expecting or hoping for anything. And then you pretty much forget about it and enjoy the life your blessed to have, you travel, see the world, make the most if the opportunities you have been given.

And then you read some guff about single women in their thirties delaying starting a family, putting their careers first, blahdy blah..

The thing is if I met a guy in the morning the very last thing I would want to do is get down to baby making business, to me that's absolutely mad. I would hope that a guy would see me for the person I am, the good and bad and that I might be somone worth spending time with. Not just a set of ovaries who have past their sell by date. I think people overthink scenarios way too much to be honest. You can say you want x, y , z and something (or somone) else comes along who doesn't meet those criteria and blows you away.

Single life as a guy...

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