Fixed Penalty Notices for Cycling by end of year

Jawgap · 18-07-2013 7:30am #1

From d'Indo.....

Cyclists facing on-the-spot €50 fines for road offences

CYCLISTS will receive on-the-spot fines if they are caught riding on
pavements or running red lights.

The Government is to introduce new regulations allowing gardai to impose
fines of €50 on cyclists who break road safety laws.

The measure is contained in the Government's road safety strategy and comes
after independent TD Finian McGrath caused a furore in May after blasting
cyclists for being arrogant and lacking respect for other road users.

You'd have to wonder what took them so long and why it will still be about another 6 months?

Darkglasses · 18-07-2013 7:32am

They must have finally got around to reading our thread :pac:

Brian? · 18-07-2013 8:13am

I'm wondering how this will be inforced. As there's no requirement to carry ID when cycling, it's basically relying on the honesty of the person stopped to give their correct name and address. Seems like a PR exercise more than anything.

Invincible · 18-07-2013 8:15am

The on the spot fine was mentioned on Newstalk and will be discussed now.

Bigcheeze · 18-07-2013 8:18am

Brian? wrote: »

I'm wondering how this will be inforced. As there's no requirement to carry ID when cycling, it's basically relying on the honesty of the person stopped to give their correct name and address. Seems like a PR exercise more than anything.

Radio back to the station to verify an address? Isn't that what Dublin Bus inspectors do?

I imagine if at that stage it's discovered you gave false name and address to a Garda you're in a lot more poo than a €50 fine.

Qualitymark · 18-07-2013 8:21am

Fine - *if* it's going to be linked to a serious drive stopping the bicycle theft epidemic.

It's ridiculous to fine cyclists - another tax hitting the poor disproportionally - while the people who steal bicycles face absolutely no police action, and if your bike's stolen the gardaí will just shrug at you and say "nothing we can do", despite CCTV identifying the thieves.

Jawgap · 18-07-2013 8:27am

Brian? wrote: »

I'm wondering how this will be inforced. As there's no requirement to carry ID when cycling, it's basically relying on the honesty of the person stopped to give their correct name and address. Seems like a PR exercise more than anything.

Easy enough - the Guard seizes the bike, which he is entitled to do already, and gives you 7 days to come to the station with your id, or else the bike goes to the auction.

Qualitymark wrote: »

Fine - *if* it's going to be linked to a serious drive stopping the bicycle theft epidemic.

It's ridiculous to fine cyclists - another tax hitting the poor disproportionally - while the people who steal bicycles face absolutely no police action, and if your bike's stolen the gardaí will just shrug at you and say "nothing we can do", despite CCTV identifying the thieves.

Not really, it'll only hit people who ignore three of the many laws that apply to road users who are cyclists.

Chips Lovell · 18-07-2013 8:32am

I'm not paying any fines until all the bankers are in jail, Joe.

Invincible · 18-07-2013 8:32am

Cycling near Kilmacud last Saturday I noticed the disregard motorists have on cycling lanes, parking in them, forcing cyclists to dismount or head onto road.

Jawgap · 18-07-2013 8:34am

Vladimir Kurtains wrote: »

I'm not paying any fines until all the bankers are in jail, Joe.

Even the ones who did nothing wrong......

dub_skav · 18-07-2013 8:34am

There is one piece of footpath that I cycle on when I'm bringing the baby to creche, it is to get to the LUAS crossing in Windy Arbour.

I could instead cycle the wrong way up the one way street at the same spot, seeing as that is not an on the spot finable (?) offence, I might be doing that instead.

dub_skav · 18-07-2013 8:36am

Jawgap wrote: »

Even the ones who did nothing wrong......

They're all the same, working for the same poisoned organisations. If they did nothing to expose the wrongdoings they are guilty.

Paraphrased from some rambling about the church elsewhere on boards

average_runner · 18-07-2013 8:42am

Qualitymark wrote: »

Fine - *if* it's going to be linked to a serious drive stopping the bicycle theft epidemic.

It's ridiculous to fine cyclists - another tax hitting the poor disproportionally - while the people who steal bicycles face absolutely no police action, and if your bike's stolen the gardaí will just shrug at you and say "nothing we can do", despite CCTV identifying the thieves.

I got knock down on the footpath a few weeks ago, bike coming around corner flying it and bursted into me.

Lucky enough i didnt suffer any major injuries and the cyclist admitted to been in the wrong and no bad vibes between us.

But if he had hit my little daughter or grand parent, then looking at broken legs etc

average_runner · 18-07-2013 8:44am

Invincible wrote: »

Cycling near Kilmacud last Saturday I noticed the disregard motorists have on cycling lanes, parking in them, forcing cyclists to dismount or head onto road.

Unless no parking sign up they can park there, stupid i know

Kurtosis · 18-07-2013 8:47am

Qualitymark wrote: »

It's ridiculous to fine cyclists - another tax hitting the poor disproportionally - while the people who steal bicycles face absolutely no police action

How does fining cyclists for offences disproportionally hit the poor?

laraghrider · 18-07-2013 8:49am

I know this has been discussed before but what does this mean now to my son when he's playing outside on his bike going up and down the path? He due a nice €50 fine?

Actually here is a question. If you're cycling in a cycle lane and a car in traffic is stopped pretty much blocking the entire lane. We've seen that many times. A cycling squeezing by clips the wing mirror or something. Does the car owner have any come back there? Reason I ask is I saw this happen coming through harrolds x a few weeks back. Cyclist clipped the wing mirror which smashed the glass, motorist went mental and told you shouldn't have been blocking the cycle lane.

Seaneh · 18-07-2013 8:52am

average_runner wrote: »

Unless no parking sign up they can park there, stupid i know

This can't be true.

You can't park in a cycle lane.

TinyExplosions · 18-07-2013 8:59am

Seaneh wrote: »

This can't be true.

You can't park in a cycle lane.

Unless it's got a solid white line separating it from the road you can.

Solid line, cars not allowed in it, dashed line, they can

kenmc · 18-07-2013 9:05am

average_runner wrote: »

I got knock down on the footpath a few weeks ago, bike coming around corner flying it and bursted into me.

What, like a big balloon when you stick a needle in it? Or more like one of those angry birds that explode if you press the screen after launching them? Oh - and what "it" was the the bike flying?

jimd2 · 18-07-2013 9:13am

Being discussed on John Murray show with Marian Finucane now.

Jawgap · 18-07-2013 9:33am

laraghrider wrote: »

I know this has been discussed before but what does this mean now to my son when he's playing outside on his bike going up and down the path? He due a nice €50 fine?.

I doubt even the thickest, most bogger Guard is going to dish out a penalty for that unless your son is about 17 and practising his slalom technique among the ol' dears coming out of the post office with their pensions:D

laraghrider wrote: »

Actually here is a question. If you're cycling in a cycle lane and a car in traffic is stopped pretty much blocking the entire lane. We've seen that many times. A cycling squeezing by clips the wing mirror or something. Does the car owner have any come back there? Reason I ask is I saw this happen coming through harrolds x a few weeks back. Cyclist clipped the wing mirror which smashed the glass, motorist went mental and told you shouldn't have been blocking the cycle lane.

Only if the motorist catches you.......

If you do it deliberately, it's criminal damage.

ScouseMouse · 18-07-2013 9:33am

Qualitymark wrote: »

Fine - *if* it's going to be linked to a serious drive stopping the bicycle theft epidemic.

It's ridiculous to fine cyclists - another tax hitting the poor disproportionally - while the people who steal bicycles face absolutely no police action,

Its ridiculous to fine road users who dont follow the rules of the road?

I see the lunatics every day.

About fu**ing time to !!!!

kenmc · 18-07-2013 9:35am

superscouse wrote: »

Its ridiculous to fine road users who dont follow the rules of the road?

I see the lunatics every day.

About fu**ing time to !!!!

But but but if they're on the path, then they're surely not a road user :pac:

ashleey · 18-07-2013 9:36am

Do they pay road tax?

Seaneh · 18-07-2013 9:38am

ashleey wrote: »

Do they pay road tax?

Pay what now?

Lumen · 18-07-2013 9:38am

"Transport Minister Leo Varadkar now plans to introduce new regulations before the end of the year, which would allow gardai to impose fines for three offences - breaking a red light, cycling on a footpath and overtaking in a dangerous situation."

That last one is going to be interesting.

ashleey · 18-07-2013 9:39am

Seaneh wrote: »

Pay what now?

I'm trying to stir the motors forum into action

ThisRegard · 18-07-2013 9:40am

Invincible wrote: »

The on the spot fine was mentioned on Newstalk and will be discussed now.

The piece was going well until they got to the part about high vis clothing. Listeners were texting in about some cyclists not wearing them and should there be also fines for not doing so.

Then the oul chestnut, 'rural' listeners were texting in to complain about cycling two abreast.

Sadly there was no "are you listeners mental" response from any of the participants which would lead to these type of fools thinking that their texts were right on.

Bigcheeze wrote: »

I imagine if at that stage it's discovered you gave false name and address to a Garda you're in a lot more poo than a €50 fine.

Sure how can they trace you, it's not like they have a licence plate to follow up on.

dub_skav wrote: »

There is one piece of footpath that I cycle on when I'm bringing the baby to creche, it is to get to the LUAS crossing in Windy Arbour.

Has me wondering that too, surely a bit of common sense applies if you're cycling behind kids. Unless you're doing it in Santry of course.

average_runner wrote: »

But if he had hit my little daughter or grand parent, then looking at broken legs etc

The cyclists legs presumably ?

RobertFoster · 18-07-2013 9:40am

penguin88 wrote: »

How does fining cyclists for offences disproportionally hit the poor?

Cyclists are poor, which is why they're on a bike instead of driving a car.

Kumsheen · 18-07-2013 9:40am

ashleey wrote: »

Do they pay road tax?

What's road tax?

seamus · 18-07-2013 9:42am

Brian? wrote: »

I'm wondering how this will be inforced. As there's no requirement to carry ID when cycling, it's basically relying on the honesty of the person stopped to give their correct name and address. Seems like a PR exercise more than anything.

If the Garda's not satisfied, they take the bike off the offender, who can only get the bike back by presenting themselves, their ID and their fine at the station. If they don't present themselves in 56 days, the bike is sold.

I suggested this about 18 months ago, and I'm telling you, this is what they'll do. They read these forums and they steal my feckin ideas. Wouldn't be the first time.

ashleey · 18-07-2013 9:42am

Lumen wrote: »

"Transport Minister Leo Varadkar now plans to introduce new regulations before the end of the year, which would allow gardai to impose fines for three offences - breaking a red light, cycling on a footpath and overtaking in a dangerous situation."

That last one is going to be interesting.

I've been overtaken dangerously by about a foot clearance by fast moving traffic while cycling this week in Donegal. Any chance of clamping down on that while they are at it?

ArseBurger · 18-07-2013 9:44am

laraghrider wrote: »

I know this has been discussed before but what does this mean now to my son when he's playing outside on his bike going up and down the path? He due a nice €50 fine?

You're ok with your kid breaking the law? Fine parenting...

ThisRegard · 18-07-2013 9:47am

Is there some sort of rapid alert system for the loons whenever such a thread is started on boards.ie ?

bren2001 · 18-07-2013 9:47am

I've no issue with an on the spot fine being issued for breaking lights or cycling on the path.

However, there are a couple of small sections of road that I just cannot cycle on. They are full of potholes and are extremely bumpy. The road is tight enough since there are a lot of trucks on it so I usually pop up on the path for the 100m or so. Guess I will be cycling in the middle of the road now. I look forward to the beeping motorists now.

ashleey · 18-07-2013 9:47am

ArseBurger wrote: »

You're ok with your kid breaking the law? Fine parenting...

He's a future ifsc banker in the making

Jawgap · 18-07-2013 9:48am

I assume they mean dangerous overtaking - as in weaving in and out of traffic - which lead me to wonder how will they catch me........

If I'm zipping through the lines of stopped cars and a Guard judges that to be dangerous and he's on foot how will he catch me (I doubt I'd stop just because he shouts.....)

......if the Guard is in a car he won't be able to follow me

.....if he's on a motorbike, he might be able to follow, but if the traffic is locked up I reckon he'd struggle.

I suppose that only leaves the helicopter and these boys to worry about.....

Lumen · 18-07-2013 9:48am

ArseBurger wrote: »

You're ok with your kid breaking the law? Fine parenting...

http://www.dcya.gov.ie/docs/Age_of_Criminal_Responsibility/167.htm

"On 16 October 2006, under the Children Act 2001, the age of criminal responsibility was effectively raised from 7 to 12 years. Under the new provisions, no child under the age of 12 years can be charged with an offence. An exception is made for 10 and 11 year-olds charged with very serious offences, such as unlawful killing, a rape offence or aggravated sexual assault. In addition, the Director of Public Prosecutions must give consent for any child under the age of 14 years to be charged. "

And if you disagree with this I'll send my 7 year old round to beat the crap out of you. :pac:

tomtucker81 · 18-07-2013 9:50am

Brian? wrote: »

I'm wondering how this will be inforced. As there's no requirement to carry ID when cycling, it's basically relying on the honesty of the person stopped to give their correct name and address. Seems like a PR exercise more than anything.

There is no obligation under law for cyclists to carry id. However when someone breaks a road traffic law, id can be demanded off them for the purpose of verifying identity.
If a road user can not provide a name and address or provides details that are believed to be false or misleading, they can be arrested until such time as their proper identity is established.
Except with a cyclist where they can not be arrested for this. Instead, for want of a better way of describing it, the bike can be detained at a station until you come in with id. Strange law that cyclists are different
Basically if you dont break the law you wont need id with you. Anyway I always carry my wallet with id when cycling, either commuting or out for a proper cycle. But then will I need to have to show id to someone.....

seamus · 18-07-2013 9:50am

"On 16 October 2006, under the Children Act 2001, the age of criminal responsibility was effectively raised from 7 to 12 years. Under the new provisions, no child under the age of 12 years can be charged with an offence. An exception is made for 10 and 11 year-olds charged with very serious offences, such as unlawful killing, a rape offence or aggravated sexual assault. In addition, the Director of Public Prosecutions must give consent for any child under the age of 14 years to be charged. "

If a child is over 14, they should be on the road anyway. Problem solved.

check_six · 18-07-2013 9:50am

Lumen wrote: »

"Transport Minister Leo Varadkar now plans to introduce new regulations before the end of the year, which would allow gardai to impose fines for three offences - breaking a red light, cycling on a footpath and overtaking in a dangerous situation."

That last one is going to be interesting.

Yeah, what does that one mean? Is that like going up the wrong side of the road to go past a line of traffic? Or does it mean salmoning up the wrong way on a one-way street? Probably not, because they would have said that if it was.

Nothing for those shoaling cyclists who plonk themselves in front of you at the traffic lights?

Uriel. · 18-07-2013 9:51am

laraghrider wrote: »

I know this has been discussed before but what does this mean now to my son when he's playing outside on his bike going up and down the path? He due a nice €50 fine?

Actually here is a question. If you're cycling in a cycle lane and a car in traffic is stopped pretty much blocking the entire lane. We've seen that many times. A cycling squeezing by clips the wing mirror or something. Does the car owner have any come back there? Reason I ask is I saw this happen coming through harrolds x a few weeks back. Cyclist clipped the wing mirror which smashed the glass, motorist went mental and told you shouldn't have been blocking the cycle lane.

Cyclist liable for the damage.
Motorist may have committed a wrong, but cyclist definitely did.

monument · 18-07-2013 10:03am

dub_skav wrote: »

There is one piece of footpath that I cycle on when I'm bringing the baby to creche, it is to get to the LUAS crossing in Windy Arbour.

I could instead cycle the wrong way up the one way street at the same spot, seeing as that is not an on the spot finable (?) offence, I might be doing that instead.

DLR are planning contra-flow for there.

average_runner wrote: »

Unless no parking sign up they can park there, stupid i know

That's not true.

No parking is allowed on a solid while lined cycle track in hours of operation, or with no time plate. Half the time motorists also partly park on the footpath which is clearly illegal.

check_six · 18-07-2013 10:07am

I've got to say that this scheme is a much better system than what went before. In case you're not au fait with it, it went as follows: you cycle through a red, or on the path, you were stopped by a guard, they took your details, and (maybe, maybe not, the guard could be wooly about what their intentions were) in six+ months time you got an invite to appear in court where you would be looking at a €200 fine, or more if you don't bother to appear. The Guard has to turn up in court too.

The new plan is far more transparent, you get stopped, they give you fine, end of story. Far better.

Getting fined for going through lights has always existed, so the fine is nothing new, the way it is done is new and is to be welcomed.

dub_skav · 18-07-2013 10:12am

Lumen wrote: »

"Transport Minister Leo Varadkar now plans to introduce new regulations before the end of the year, which would allow gardai to impose fines for three offences - breaking a red light, cycling on a footpath and overtaking in a dangerous situation."

That last one is going to be interesting.

I presume that is to cover cyclists swerving suddenly in front of traffic to get around another cyclist.
Assuming motorists are driving with due care and attention there should be very few of these.

You do wonder where these 3 came from, the lights and path are obvious, but why this overtaking one specifically, why not salmoning for instance.

Lumen · 18-07-2013 10:17am

dub_skav wrote: »

You do wonder where these 3 came from, the lights and path are obvious, but why this overtaking one specifically, why not salmoning for instance.

ThisRegard · 18-07-2013 10:22am

dub_skav wrote: »

but why this overtaking one specifically,

You heard it here first. It'll be used as a way to prevent cycling two abreast. Hey mister cyclist, you're taking a very long time to get by that other cyclist. But mister garda, we're allowed to.
Less of the cheek sonny boy, you're failing to make progress with that overtaking manoeuvre and are making it very dangerous for the queue of traffic behind you've been holding up for what must be seconds. On the spot fine for you.

cdaly_ · 18-07-2013 10:28am

Jawgap wrote: »

I assume they mean dangerous overtaking - as in weaving in and out of traffic - which lead me to wonder how will they catch me........

I'm hoping it only means things like overtaking 4 abreast and doesn't mean I have to sit in the bike lane drafting the commuter in front 'cos leaving the bike lane would be 'dangerous'...

thebionicdude · 18-07-2013 10:29am

check_six wrote: »

Yeah, what does that one mean?

My guess is it means that cyclists should sometimes come to a stop before overtaking as opposed to simply veering to overtake an obstacle even if they are ahead of the car in the lane they move into. An example would be when a bus is pulled into a bus-stop or when a car is parked on a cycle-lane ... these are obstacles to cyclists that many find inconvenient. Assumedly, some ignorant cyclists overtake without paying attention to following traffic, which can be dangerous if the car has to brake suddenly or swerve right.

If they clamp down on us, I hope they clamp down on taxi-drivers (or just clamp them), arguably the most dangerous and obstructive of all road users.

cdaly_ · 18-07-2013 10:32am

tomtucker81 wrote: »

There is no obligation under law for cyclists to carry id. However when someone breaks a road traffic law, id can be demanded off them for the purpose of verifying identity.
If a road user can not provide a name and address or provides details that are believed to be false or misleading, they can be arrested until such time as their proper identity is established.
Except with a cyclist where they can not be arrested for this. Instead, for want of a better way of describing it, the bike can be detained at a station until you come in with id. Strange law that cyclists are different
Basically if you dont break the law you wont need id with you. Anyway I always carry my wallet with id when cycling, either commuting or out for a proper cycle. But then will I need to have to show id to someone.....

The difference is that drivers of mechanically propelled vehicles are required to carry their driver's license while cyclists are not. Driver's license provides the ID (and the vehicle may be hard to impound).

Lumen · 18-07-2013 10:33am

cdaly_ wrote: »

I'm hoping it only means things like overtaking 4 abreast and doesn't mean I have to sit in the bike lane drafting the commuter in front 'cos leaving the bike lane would be 'dangerous'...

Riding 4 abreast is not necessarily dangerous. It is probably illegal though, in the current law.

The new law is making something illegal on the basis that it's dangerous, which is interesting.

The bar on dangerous driving has always been very high because it's difficult to prove, hence lesser offences like "driving without due care and attention".

Fixed Penalty Notices for Cycling by end of year

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