Bullet proof reliability

selous · 18-11-2015 6:38pm #1

I am just wondering if anyone has ever heard of having to have the injectors on your diesel car reconditioned every 60k miles 100k-km, to keep your car in perfect working order?

I bought a car new in 2008 from a main dealer, never had an ounce of bother with it at all, it was serviced every 15k at the main dealer,
Then last month, 2months after a service the oil light flashed and 2minutes later the engine was totalled, less than 100k miles

I have looked through enthusiasts sites and found that there seems to be a problem with crankshafts breaking, (but mine didn't) it seems the conrod did though.

Dealer stripped the engine, and sent a report to the importer and the injectors to be checked out to whoever does them, it seems there is only place 1 in Ireland that does this car brand, The report came back that they were shagged and contributed/caused (?) the damage.

I recently seen the same model of car advertised from a main dealer and they had advertised on the page
"Make sure the injectors have been reconditioned if purchasing "said model" with 100000km travelled"
I have NEVER been made aware of this, and with only 6k km since my last service, and it went in with the engine warning light on, which I was told was carbon build up in the intake manifold and was cleaned.

After the dealers report went to the distributor/importer they are going to supply the main parts for a rebuild, but I still have to pay E5k, but for what I don't know, I did ask, and have not so far been replied to.

I am a bit peeved that I have to pay that money for a fault that has nothing to with me. the car was fully serviced, and only serviced shortly before, and if the injectors are that "soft" why are the used, they cost E1000 to recondition, if one dealer knows and advertised it, why don't others. or is it, would you buy a car if you knew that.

What do you think?
Would you pay the E5k happily for the return of the car
or be seriously peed off?

vandriver · 18-11-2015 6:40pm

Model?

selous · 18-11-2015 6:54pm

Subaru

But was just throwing it out how would people feel if it was any car. what would they think

Atomic Pineapple · 18-11-2015 7:09pm

selous wrote: »

Subaru

Subaru is a make not a model

selous · 18-11-2015 7:11pm

I know.
But it's the same engine in them all.

rex-x · 18-11-2015 7:52pm

Certainly commonrail injectors should be rebuilt after 60-100k for optimum running but they shouldn't cause catastrophic engine failure if not done promptly. Perhaps a known common fault?

selous · 18-11-2015 8:13pm

I never knew that, I don't know of anyone that has even said they've had to have it done on any car make.

would you pay the E5k to get it back on the road if it was yours?

vandriver · 18-11-2015 8:16pm

selous wrote: »

I never knew that, I don't know of anyone that has even said they've had to have it done on any car make.

would you pay the E5k to get it back on the road if it was yours?

Mine should have been done 3 times!
And no,I've never heard of it either.

rex-x · 18-11-2015 8:17pm

Its the case across any commonrail diesel, 100k miles of being battered by 1800-2000 bar of pressure combined with questionable diesel and Irish fuel filter habits lead to degradation. Bosch, Siemens, Denso etc don't typically make all the parts available for a rebuild so buying brand new is usually best. I would find out what made the car explode in the first place, for an injector to do that it would need to stick wide open and burn a hole in the piston? Breaking a conrod would be very unlikely from an injector problem unless it got the peak cylinder pressure extremely high.

TrailerBob · 18-11-2015 8:19pm

258,000 miles on mine (Toyota 3L common rail turbodiesel) and never had to touch injectors, or anything on the engine for that matter. Timing belt and routine maintenance is all its had. It does sound strange that injectors would have to be serviced at 60,000 miles or they'll blow up.

Yakkyda · 18-11-2015 8:19pm

I'd be surprised if it's worth much more than that repair quote tbh. Poxy situation to be in. I'd be pissed meself if it's the same main dealer that's been maintaining it since you bought it.

JohnBoy26 · 18-11-2015 8:33pm

The crankshaft seems to have a habit of breaking on those
http://www.scoobynet.com/general-technical-10/981734-boxer-diesel-crankshaft-broken.html

selous · 18-11-2015 8:36pm

There was no loss of power or rise in temp, just flashing oil light, I slowed down and about 2km 2 ish minutes to take exit off motorway it want bang at the roundabout at top of exit.
I know you see adds with cars/vans having over 200k miles on them but never saying injectors being done or replaced. Should the dealer not recommend doing it, he never did, and as I said the last service was only 2month previous,
It's the dealer that said injectors first, then seeing the add on internet saying "Make sure they're done" set the alarm bell off, that someone knows something fishy, and if there's only one place in Ireland that re-cons them, they mustn't be multi manufacturer ones.

selous · 18-11-2015 8:39pm

Yakkyda wrote: »

I'd be surprised if it's worth much more than that repair quote tbh. Poxy situation to be in. I'd be pissed meself if it's the same main dealer that's been maintaining it since you bought it.

Yep, same one, sale and all servicing, I am getting pissed off, I rang for a breakdown of the E5k bill (estimated) but hasn't called me back yet.

_Brian · 18-11-2015 9:09pm

I know my mechanic warned me to steer clear of the diesel Subaru as injectors were a weak point.
He also said they come with a large labor bill as the injectors are buried down behind the engine and huge amount of strip/rebuild is required.

cerastes · 18-11-2015 9:25pm

selous wrote: »

There was no loss of power or rise in temp, just flashing oil light, I slowed down and about 2km 2 ish minutes to take exit off motorway it want bang at the roundabout at top of exit.
I know you see adds with cars/vans having over 200k miles on them but never saying injectors being done or replaced. Should the dealer not recommend doing it, he never did, and as I said the last service was only 2month previous,
It's the dealer that said injectors first, then seeing the add on internet saying "Make sure they're done" set the alarm bell off, that someone knows something fishy, and if there's only one place in Ireland that re-cons them, they mustn't be multi manufacturer ones.

Oil light? If the oil light came on I'd have stopped and turned off the engine at the side of the road and checked for oil, if oil then maybe no pressure, I'd have it towed, that may have been the problem? Seems you're trying to connect the outcome to a known fault but not suspect the oil pressure which you were aware of? Maybe the known problems did contribute but if you were aware of the oil light, why not treat it with caution? Instead of drive it on?
Unless the car is something you like or want to keep and is something special in the way of spec and condition, 5kk sounds like an awful lot, that said, it might be worth very little without paying it up.

selous · 18-11-2015 10:19pm

It's worth nothing without the engine it seems, I rang around a few places, when I say no engine, they say no thanks, best I did get offered was E400.

I know now, that a flashing oil light is worse than an on light, If it was on the same road during normal working hours I probably would have stopped and rang dealer to see what it was, but on the commute to work at 4.30am, less options, dealer wasn't open, and less than 2km it was gone, yes, I do the "if only" over and over.

As I said, I never had an ounce of bother with it in 7yr, no body work done, well minded, so E5k is cheaper than a new (to me) car. And I do like it.

They are supplying the parts as goodwill gesture, which I appreciate big time, or I wouldn't be contemplating putting it back on the road, or if it was any other make, I may not even be as peeved.

cerastes · 19-11-2015 12:06am

selous wrote: »

It's worth nothing without the engine it seems, I rang around a few places, when I say no engine, they say no thanks, best I did get offered was E400.

I know now, that a flashing oil light is worse than an on light, If it was on the same road during normal working hours I probably would have stopped and rang dealer to see what it was, but on the commute to work at 4.30am, less options, dealer wasn't open, and less than 2km it was gone, yes, I do the "if only" over and over.

As I said, I never had an ounce of bother with it in 7yr, no body work done, well minded, so E5k is cheaper than a new (to me) car. And I do like it.

They are supplying the parts as goodwill gesture, which I appreciate big time, or I wouldn't be contemplating putting it back on the road, or if it was any other make, I may not even be as peeved.

Hindsight is 20 20,
Could be viewed that if they are contributing parts that adds to the value for you or reduces the cost of your input to the 5k? If you don't feel you are paying for the parts they are supplying?, putting in 5k could be viewed as a good option, for one the car is worth nothing without it, 2 its worth maybe more than the 5k and what will you get for 5k anyway if you spend that on a replacement?
If you have the 5k it might be worth investing that in the repair, if not?

selous · 19-11-2015 2:55pm

One part they are supplying cost approx E4.5k (the short block) and are also supplying the cylinder heads which were cracked, I have rang the dealer and asked how the E5000 is used, labour, parts/labour, or both and recon of the injectors, The guy who answered the phone said he wouldn't know, but will get the main guy to ring me back, (I'm waiting 4 days now), As for what happened to the car, I'm only going on what the dealer has told me, but searching the internet it seems there is something wrong with the early diesel engines, and not up to the usual "bullet proof reliability"

cerastes · 19-11-2015 5:53pm

I dont think Id be looking for a detail of the costs and where it goes, ID be either deciding for or against, from what you say, Id be inclined to go for, but its a personal matter to decide, depends on things you only know, car condition, how much you like it or consider the hit of the total loss of value of the car vs the loss or cost of 5k to make it useable.

walus · 19-11-2015 6:25pm

selous wrote: »

One part they are supplying cost approx E4.5k (the short block) and are also supplying the cylinder heads which were cracked, I have rang the dealer and asked how the E5000 is used, labour, parts/labour, or both and recon of the injectors, The guy who answered the phone said he wouldn't know, but will get the main guy to ring me back, (I'm waiting 4 days now), As for what happened to the car, I'm only going on what the dealer has told me, but searching the internet it seems there is something wrong with the early diesel engines, and not up to the usual "bullet proof reliability"

You are right there saying that the Subaru diesel is a far from bullet proof. It is said that the problem with these starts at the clutch/dual flywheel end that in the later stages causes the crankshaft to go off its axis and wreck the whole bottom end. I did not hear that the injectors had anything to do with it - cannot see how they would. The injectors are a separate topic on these engines and require a thorough maintenance. From what I know in cases where the car had a full service history with the Subaru dealer FHI normally participate in the cost of the short block and labour. To what degree - I do not know as this is considered on case to case basis. From what I know in those cars that got a software upgrades early on and with 6 speed manual transmissions such horrible stories are non existent.

selous · 19-11-2015 7:24pm

Im only going on what the dealer is telling me, (I suppose and independent guy is what is needed)
The cylinder heads got cracked too, he says probably by some broken part hitting it, they were supplying that part too.
I do remember when I got the car first, there was a judder in the clutch and used to conk out a lot when slowing to a stop, but it got a software update and it went, (mines a 5 speed)
I was told by the dealer that injectors were bad, and then seen an add for the same make and model saying
"When you are buying make sure the injectors are reconditioned when 100000km travelled"
Maybe the injectors had no part to play, maybe they did, as I say I'm only going on what I'm been told, either way the engine is shagged and I'm being asked for E5k, if for only labour that's 40ish hours, would it take that long to assemble the engine from scratch and install?
Im still waiting for dealer to phone back with that information.

Colser · 19-11-2015 7:54pm

What should you look out for to stop this happening,is a service with the dealer enough or do you have to specifically ask for injectors to be checked? I cant see what you could have done to stop this happening and as you bought it and serviced it with the dealer should they be willing to go furthur to cover the costs?

Id definitely be pushing for more of an explanation on what happened,very few people would be in a position to pull in straight away in fairness so you got no real warning that there was anything going to go wrong.I drove mine to the dealer when the engine light came on and was told that unless the light starts flashing Im ok to keep driving (I wont be doing that after reading this anyway).

walus · 20-11-2015 10:04am

selous wrote: »

Im only going on what the dealer is telling me, (I suppose and independent guy is what is needed)
The cylinder heads got cracked too, he says probably by some broken part hitting it, they were supplying that part too.
I do remember when I got the car first, there was a judder in the clutch and used to conk out a lot when slowing to a stop, but it got a software update and it went, (mines a 5 speed)
I was told by the dealer that injectors were bad, and then seen an add for the same make and model saying
"When you are buying make sure the injectors are reconditioned when 100000km travelled"
Maybe the injectors had no part to play, maybe they did, as I say I'm only going on what I'm been told, either way the engine is shagged and I'm being asked for E5k, if for only labour that's 40ish hours, would it take that long to assemble the engine from scratch and install?
Im still waiting for dealer to phone back with that information.

Take a look at this OP: http://www.scoobynet.com/general-technical-10/981734-boxer-diesel-crankshaft-broken.html

As I said what happened to you is a known problem and in many countries FHI participates in the cost of the repair as long as the car has a proven service history with the main dealer. This issue has nothing to do with the injectors afaik. It "normally" happens to early 08/09 boxer diesels with under 100k miles of mileage. If the dealer is slow to deal with it I would take tha matter further up the chain and contact Subaru Ireland direct. I know that in Germany, UK and Poland FHI participated in repairs like yours.

Lex Luthor · 20-11-2015 2:07pm

ok, just reading this and starting to get stressed out
Mine is a 09 and has 146k km on the clock.
I haven't maintained a full dealer history but have had it serviced on the button every 15,000km
Is there anything I can do to have this checked out as I don't want this big bill on my hands?

Cee-Jay-Cee · 20-11-2015 2:18pm

I was warned off the 08-10 Legacy diesel by a main Subaru dealer. He told me that if buying second hand to go for the 10> model as the injectors were revised/changed. He had 3 08/09 models in stock and knew my budget only stretched to that age car. In the end I decided to hold onto my 'bullet proof' petrol Legacy for another while and up my budget next year.

I think if a dealer is willing to warn a straight cash customer off a car that they're selling citing possible 'injector issues' then it's something that current owners should be made aware of.

BTW I don't know the dealer nor ever had any previous dealings with him.

Lex Luthor · 20-11-2015 5:16pm

so if I ask at the next service to check the injectors, would this be a good way of preventing this catastrophe?

would it be worthwhile getting them replaced now at 150,000km? Is it expensive?

Colser · 20-11-2015 7:11pm

If its a known fault with the cars why is the OP being asked to pay 5000e to repair it..very unfair imo.

@Lex Luthor,I wouldnt wait for next service,what about sending an email to dealer and/or Subaru Ireland and ask if its a potential issue with your car.

Anyone know if its just the Legacy or all diesel Subarus?

selous · 20-11-2015 7:13pm

I didnt know anything about injectors or the seemingly dodgy engine in this car, till it went bang, I had no trouble in the 7yr i owned it, it's last service was 2.5 month before it happened and wasn't advised to get injectors or anything else checked, and it has full Subaru history, It costs E1000 to get the injectors reconditioned, I don't know if that includes the taking out and replacing them or just the recon job, they are buried halfway down the engine, and not easy to get at, So i don't think it would hurt to have them checked, or see if they have been done already,

selous · 20-11-2015 7:18pm

Colser wrote: »

If its a known fault with the cars why is the OP being asked to pay 5000e to repair it..very unfair imo.

@Lex Luthor,I wouldnt wait for next service,what about sending an email to dealer and/or Subaru Ireland and ask if its a potential issue with your car.

Anyone know if its just the Legacy or all diesel Subarus?

As far as i know, it's the same engine, But, i haven't seen any one complain about their Imprezza breaking, although I know a guy who sold an Outback it happened to, he got an engine from U.K and fitted it as he wasn't a main dealer, his customer was happy.

walus · 20-11-2015 7:51pm

There is only one boxer diesel that in between 08-10 was fitted into Legacys, out backs, foresters etc. The issue with injectors has nothing to do with the crankshaft failure. Like I said it starts at the dual mass/clutch interface. Worn out dual mass stresses the crankshaft which eventually cracks wrecking in an effect half the engine. The remedy is to replace the whole short block. The problem is the price and the fact that there are a lot of engines repaired that way that failed again the exact same way. There was also this theory that some part of the early engines had an excess silicon blocking the lubrication channels in the engine block that over time was causing the bearings and crankshaft to go bang. This was what guys in Scandinavia managed to get out of Subaru representatives there. I do not know for certain what is the single course for this. I believe it is most likely combination of things: torque levels at low revs (at the take off), worn out dual mass flywheel, lack of lubrication. What people who know Subaru well say is that before the crankshaft goes its play off the axis is easily detected/spotted. However there is no remedy or a prevention procedure.
Those lucky ones who had their boxer diesels fixed with FHI participating had full service history and mileage under 100k miles. And I really mean full service history - not a single service was done outside the official dealership.

Colser · 20-11-2015 8:10pm

Is it just the 5 speed cars that are affected walus?

walus · 20-11-2015 9:41pm

I'm after restarting this topic on Polish forum Subaru. I asked for opinion guys who know boxer diesels inside out. One is a dealer himself, the other independent mechanic with huge experience. So far I managed to get a price of a short block: 3.5-4k euros. The thing with labour is that every case is slightly different so it is hard to estimate. My knowledge on this is 2 years old as I swapped my Legacy for FR-V and haven't been frequent on the forum there. I'll keep on asking we will see what info I can gather.

selous · 20-11-2015 10:11pm

I was told the shortblock costs about E4.5K here,

I was in contact with a guy in England about a recon engine with upgraded crankshaft in it, I got a price of £5000, but NOT including the injectors, shipping or fitting.

Think I'm making a few Subaru drivers nervous now, sorry guys/girls.

gctest50 · 20-11-2015 11:20pm

new n used subaru diesel engines , might be worth a call

http://www.roadnrace.co.uk/EE20-DIESEL-ENGINE.html

walus · 21-11-2015 12:36am

OK this is what I managed to gather so far:
1. Crankshaft failure is a combination of a number of factors: dual mass flywheel and clutch condition, new or old software more so than a 5MT or 6MT gearbox, driving style, regular oil changes and injector maintenance.
1.A. DMF - knackered and worn out flywheel and clutch put a lot of stress on crankshaft. From what I know at 140k kilometres DMF and clutch are way overdue replacement in 08/09. Replacing the set does not ensure that the engine will avoid the failure. The damage to the bearings and crankshaft is most likely already done.
1.B. Subaru tuned the engine very aggressively with the maximum torque available as low as 1800 rpm. A lot of drivers had issues with conking the engine in the traffic jam etc and Subaru released a software update that moved the high torque higher up in the rev range. The take off was happening way smoother after that. Other than the driver experience what they did was put a lot less load on the crankshaft moving away with the top torque from its natural resonance frequency. In the more modern engines after the cold start the torque levels are additionally restricted to protect the crankshaft until the engine oil is warmed up to its normal temperature.
1.C. Driving style. Prolonged driving at high gear with low revs seriously strains the crankshaft especially when DMF is already on its last legs and one puts his foot down to accelerate from very low revs. It is better to use gears efficiently and keep the revs above 2k. That is true for any engine though and you can spot it when driving a car with automatic gearbox. Say when you want to accelerate from 1600 rpm to overtake instead of staying in the gear the box will drop it down to make sure the required acceleration is performed efficiently. If you do the same in any car with manual gearbox and keep it in a high gear the crankshaft would not be very happy camper.
1.D. Regular oil changes and injector maintenance. Frequent oil changes are a must for a modern diesel. Every 15k is a max in my opinion. If the injectors are dirty or out of calibration they may in certain cases supply too much fuel to the engine. This fuel is then not properly burnt and mixes with engine oil degrading its properties. The oil level rises end engine does not receive the required protection.

2. There was a batch of engines in the early days that were manufactured with assembly silicon that was blocking partially the oil channels.

3. There is a way to diagnose if the engine is already affected by a strained crankshaft symptom. Presence of metal shavings in the oil filter is an early sign of that. Some of the shavings can be as big as 3-4mm. Also the crankshaft will have an axial play (in and out rather than up and down or left and right sort of thing) and there will be a knock present similar to one that suggests worn out DMF. This one however is there irrespectively of whether the clutch is depressed or not.
If any of this signed are present the crankshaft will go for sure.

If I get more info I throw it here later.

walus · 21-11-2015 11:52am

@selous, the fact that the dealer supplies parts at their cost is a very positive thing. I do not know how what they charge for labour but judging on the excess of damage to your engine it could easily take a week. Ask the dealer to list out exactly what needs to be done and ring UK to confirm the man-hour they would quote. I think it is better to rebuild it with new parts as you should get 2 year warranty with it. Bear in Ming though that you will need new clutch and flywheel which may not be covered for parts and labour by the dealer.

selous · 21-11-2015 12:47pm

gctest50 wrote: »

new n used subaru diesel engines , might be worth a call

http://www.roadnrace.co.uk/EE20-DIESEL-ENGINE.html

That's the guy I got the quote of £5000stg off, no injectors,

thanks for taking the time to get in touch, appreciate it.

selous · 21-11-2015 1:00pm

Walus.

Thanks for all that, what an expensive cock up though, for the driver, when you notice it, it's too late kind of thing.

I never went near the engine myself, it was all done by the one dealer, at the 15km service and the big one every 60km
I did notice something different in the last service bill in comparison to the others, only 5lt of oil was charged for, all the others were 7lt or 6lt and 1lt of additive, I'm curious now did 5lt fill it, if it was, how come the mechanic didn't notice, would there be a 2lt blockage in an engine, or did the just not charge me for the 7lt, and im now too suspicious.

In the early stage when I rang the garage the guy said he only knew of one before and it wasn't as bad as mine, but I had rang a mechanic friend of mine, and he said it happened to a car he sold, and he had to stand over it he was quoted 9k to fix, but got an engine in from UK cheaper, customer was happy with that.

But my garage knew about this guy too, so that was 2 he knew of, not one.

Thank for the information, it's all very surprising and useful, my choice when I was buying this car was this and the Octavia vrs, but chose this for its reputation on reliability, damn.

Lex Luthor · 21-11-2015 6:05pm

walus wrote: »

OK this is what I managed to gather so far:
1. Crankshaft failure is a combination of a number of factors: dual mass flywheel and clutch condition, new or old software more so than a 5MT or 6MT gearbox, driving style, regular oil changes and injector maintenance.
1.A. DMF - knackered and worn out flywheel and clutch put a lot of stress on crankshaft. From what I know at 140k kilometres DMF and clutch are way overdue replacement in 08/09. Replacing the set does not ensure that the engine will avoid the failure. The damage to the bearings and crankshaft is most likely already done.
1.B. Subaru tuned the engine very aggressively with the maximum torque available as low as 1800 rpm. A lot of drivers had issues with conking the engine in the traffic jam etc and Subaru released a software update that moved the high torque higher up in the rev range. The take off was happening way smoother after that. Other than the driver experience what they did was put a lot less load on the crankshaft moving away with the top torque from its natural resonance frequency. In the more modern engines after the cold start the torque levels are additionally restricted to protect the crankshaft until the engine oil is warmed up to its normal temperature.
1.C. Driving style. Prolonged driving at high gear with low revs seriously strains the crankshaft especially when DMF is already on its last legs and one puts his foot down to accelerate from very low revs. It is better to use gears efficiently and keep the revs above 2k. That is true for any engine though and you can spot it when driving a car with automatic gearbox. Say when you want to accelerate from 1600 rpm to overtake instead of staying in the gear the box will drop it down to make sure the required acceleration is performed efficiently. If you do the same in any car with manual gearbox and keep it in a high gear the crankshaft would not be very happy camper.
1.D. Regular oil changes and injector maintenance. Frequent oil changes are a must for a modern diesel. Every 15k is a max in my opinion. If the injectors are dirty or out of calibration they may in certain cases supply too much fuel to the engine. This fuel is then not properly burnt and mixes with engine oil degrading its properties. The oil level rises end engine does not receive the required protection.

2. There was a batch of engineers in the early days that were manufactured with assembly silicon that was blocking partially the oil channels.

3. There is a way to diagnose if the engine is already affected by a strained crankshaft symptom. Presence of metal shavings in the oil filter is an early sign of that. Some of the shavings can be as big as 3-4mm. Also the crankshaft will have an axial play (in and out rather than up and down or left and right sort of thing) and there will be a knock present similar to one that suggests worn out DMF. This one however is there irrespective lily of whether the clutch is depressed or not.
If any of this signed are present the crankshaft will go for sure.

If I get more info I throw it here later.

thanks a million for this....I'll bring the car back to my dealer soon with this info and get it fully checked

I don't want to have to sell this on or car gone, as I love driving it

selous · 23-11-2015 8:27pm

Just looking at a Subaru enthusiast site another one bites the dust in Scotland last week.

Colser · 23-11-2015 9:00pm

selous wrote: »

Just looking at a Subaru enthusiast site another one bites the dust in Scotland last week.

Did you message him to compare your story? Should the cars have been recalled and checked by Subaru?

walus · 24-11-2015 1:24pm

I had a one guy on the forum say that he changed the DMF and clutch in his boxer diesel and AL content in the oil analysis dropped to a quarter the amount from the time before the replacement. He did that at about 120k kilometres and said that even though there was no obvious signs for the DMF to be wearing the thing was knackered when they took it out. This guy though changes oil meticulously at 10k kilometres and sends samples for oil analysis.
I suspect that dealers know exactly what is causing the issue as they are linked to FHI very closely but do not want to spread the information for two reasons: one is that it does not do any good to the brand image, two they want to keep all those owners of diesel engines coming back for servicing long after the warranty expires. In Poland Subaru extended the engine warranty on those diesels to 5 ears or 150k kilometres whichever comes first. The presumption there is to keep the car serviced at the dealer as he would help to avoid the big bang. Worst case if it happens FHI will participate in the cost of the repair.
Interesting thing is that in Sweden it affected engines between 60-80k kilometres, in Poland 100-140k while in Ireland I suspect it would be at 160k and more. Is this to do with outside temperatures and is connected to engine lubrication I wonder?

selous · 24-11-2015 4:25pm

That's odd, but you're spot on, mine went at 156k km, 6000km after its last service, only a normal service and nothing to report to me, only extra thing done was intake manifold was scraped clean, as engine light was on and that was the problem on the diagnostics. so regular servicing didn't seem to prevent it happening to mine.
Im flippin raging about this, let me tell you.

walus · 24-11-2015 4:43pm

selous wrote: »

That's odd, but you're spot on, mine went at 156k km, 6000km after its last service, only a normal service and nothing to report to me, only extra thing done was intake manifold was scraped clean, as engine light was on and that was the problem on the diagnostics. so regular servicing didn't seem to prevent it happening to mine.
Im flippin raging about this, let me tell you.

I can only imagine that you must be going mad about this. This is a Subaru after all. The reports from Sweden suggest to be saying that this extra drop of silicon that was supposed to be blocking lubrication channels in the block was only for a narrow batch of cars in 08 or 09. They also say that in those years the crankshaft bearing/bearings were found to be of too tight tolerance.
Sources from Poland seem to suggest the DMF/clutch is to be blamed for excessive vibrations being put on the crankshaft that is already under massive pressure from the 350nm of torque available as low as 1800 rpm. Anyone there that poses a question how to avoid a big bang in his boxer diesel is advised to check the DMF condition. This however is not limited only to 08/09 cars but goes as far as 11/12MY.
Judging that in a very cold Sweden and only seasonally cold Poland these engines lasted 80 and 120k kilometres in average made me think it must be to do with engine wear at the start-up and shortly after. It is well known that diesel engines are very efficient and need a lot longer to get to normal operating temperature. In even less cold Ireland same engine simply lasts even longer.
Subaru dealers in Ireland are disadvantaged on one hand by the limited experience that they have in repairing such a complex problem. They might not know themselves how to diagnose a DMF that needs replacement without taking off the gearbox.
I owned Legacy 2.0 petrol MY04 for a number of years and loved it. However at 120k kilometres I had to get rid of the DMF and clutch as both were knackered. I was not surprised as it was an AWD after all and the clutch is always at the receiving end between the engine and traction. I do not understand how you guys can make the same thing last longer in essentially same car with far more torque?

selous · 24-11-2015 5:07pm

Mine was 80% motor/dual-carriageway, not traffic lights and city driving, only 1 set of replacement brake pads front n rear used, (Subaru too) so I wasn't doing stop start driving, 4th set of tyres though.

I was told 3weeks ago the car should be ready to roll end of the month, but I haven't heard a thing from the garage at all in 2 weeks, when they were supposed to ring me back about the cost, He said I didn't have to decide about a clutch at the time of discussion 3wk ago, as they would clean it up and see what it was like and let me know, hmmm, nothing yet.

ianobrien · 24-11-2015 5:57pm

Well, if the engine is out, in my opinion it would be silly not to change the clutch. All it will cost is the clutch itself, rather than later on where you would be paying for the labour to get at it.

selous · 24-11-2015 8:26pm

I know, E400 instead of E1800, but I would like him to be keeping me informed of whats going on or what he's doing, not a surprise at the end.

walus · 24-11-2015 9:24pm

If they end up not replacing the DMF and clutch after all this it will mean they have no idea what they are at. I would call into the dealer and request an update on the situation. Whoever is paying for this you are entitled to know what is happening with your car.. It's your property after all.

Colser · 24-11-2015 11:16pm

Would it be worth emailing Subaru Ireland and asking if there is anything can be checked in the cars to avoid this happening as it seems to be a known fault? Id be interested to know what they would say or will they only correspond directly with dealers?

selous · 25-11-2015 7:22pm

I rang a few Subaru Ireland times, wouldn't deal with me, first was when the car went bump, I was told send in an email with what happened, they didn't even have the courtesy to acknowledge it, I rang again to see if they received it, I was told we don't deal with the public, it's done thru your garage, I ONLY WANT TO KNOW DID YOU GET MY EMAIL, and it wasn't acknowledged, (No, I didn't shout, inside I was though)

Bullet proof reliability

Comments