SF Aengus O'Snodaigh has claimed €50,000 in expenses for Printer Ink

Hannibal · 03-03-2012 3:58am

K-9 wrote: »

Well I'll remember come voting in a constituency with a SF TD. I'll also remember Thomas Pringle claiming his allowance that he chose not to give back, as basically they're all at it. Well AOS and Pringle, you weren't elected to be all at it, just like FF/FG!

Thomas Pringle isn't a member of Sinn Féin, he left the party in 2007 and got elected as an independent!!

K-9 · 03-03-2012 4:10am

Dotsey wrote: »

Thomas Pringle isn't a member of Sinn Féin, he left the party in 2007 and got elected as an independent!!

Yep, well familiar with that, my old constituency after all. Notice I didn't mention SF in that post, just individuals? That was on purpose.

yourpics · 03-03-2012 4:17am

Liam Byrne wrote: »

Well they shouldn't have moved on until he is forced to pay back most of it and possibly even suspended for a while.

It won't happen though, because far too many of them are at it.

Hopefully all other politicians will pay back what they owe to the taxpayer aswell, unlikely though.

john reilly · 03-03-2012 9:44am

raymon wrote: »

Not true ..... I care

Not true ...... it was covered by all media outlets

Not true ........ millions of leaflets was the number provided by experts

Personally I don't believe his explanation, I think it is more likely that others used the cartridges

you missed the most important part of the post . specifically refering to those who would never vote sinn fein and yet the next few posts. are from those very people

lugha · 03-03-2012 10:12am

Liam Byrne wrote: »

Speak for yourself.

Liam Byrne wrote: »

Do not taint me by association, please.

Liam, I think you are missing an essential point in what I am saying, which is that the Irish electorate (i.e. “we”), as opposed to many of us as individual voters, do not punish unethical politicians. There is no “I” in electorate!

You are at pains to disassociate yourself from the ranks who would put people with low standards in high office. Of course you can only be responsible for how you use your own vote, and if you maintain high standards, then certainly you can say “I deserve a better standard of public representative”

But it is the electorate as a whole, in the various constituencies, that decide who holds public office. You can distance yourself from the decisions that they make if you wish but you can’t say “we deserve a better standard of public representative”, or “Limerick does”.

The people (plural) in a democracy always get the representatives they deserve, notwithstanding that a great many individuals within the collective may deserve much better. In my contributions, I am referring to the former.

raymon · 03-03-2012 10:28am

john reilly wrote: »

you missed the most important part of the post . specifically refering to those who would never vote sinn fein and yet the next few posts. are from those very people

You missed the most important part of my post. I didn't mention any party.

If there is a suspected thief in leinster house , that should be investigated regardless of party.

kippy · 03-03-2012 11:19am

john reilly wrote: »

there is a cost for me getting to work. but i pay that myself. also the bigger parties get more money ensuring they will stay the bigger parties. hardly suprising given it was them that introduced these expenses

The problem isn't with the political expense system, how often does that have to be said.
You have to see the logic of politicians getting expenses.
Yes, we can and should question them, there should be more accountability and there definitely should be a system of punishments for those that abuse it. But guess what, there isn't and that is the problem. Not the fact that they get expenses in the first place.

Who introduced these expenses? FF were the biggest party in the last Dail - therefore they got the most expenses - they sure as hell aren't the biggest party this time out. There goes your logic about expenses.
The bigger parties being the bigger parties has nothing directly to do with the amount of expenses they claim.

I have to say, your attitude depresses me. You are defending and backing the indefensible.

raymon · 03-03-2012 1:11pm

I think we are all being too lenient here.

Let's say I started swiping the coffee at work. I am entitled to free coffee after all. There is no rule that says stealing the coffee is prohibited. And because I was told coffee is free I am not breaking the law.
Every evening I throw a few bags of freshly ground into my bag. I do this for a few years until someone tells me to stop.

Now I am not a thief so this scenario is hypothetical.

If I was caught I would be fired I am sure. Or sent to counselling for kleptomania.

Why are politicians different than workers in the real world?

walshb · 03-03-2012 1:17pm

raymon wrote: »

Why are politicians different than workers in the real world?

Beacuse it's their club, their rules, and they investigate if rules may have been broken. A disgusting system set up by some disgusting people.

Bannasidhe · 03-03-2012 1:38pm

raymon wrote: »

I think we are all being too lenient here.

Let's say I started swiping the coffee at work. I am entitled to free coffee after all. There is no rule that says stealing the coffee is prohibited. And because I was told coffee is free I am not breaking the law.
Every evening I throw a few bags of freshly ground into my bag. I do this for a few years until someone tells me to stop.

Now I am not a thief so this scenario is hypothetical.

If I was caught I would be fired I am sure. Or sent to counselling for kleptomania.

Why are politicians different than workers in the real world?

Exactly - it's just eejits like us who don't see the stuff supplied to us to help us do our work as an invitation to help ourselves to what ever is available.

Perhaps I should pop into work and load the car up with the boxes of paper they supply for staff? I have the keys to the room they are kept in, and they are 'free' (i.e paid for by the taxpayer). May as well stock up on folders, envelopes and the like while I'm there.

Now that I think about it - my colleagues have some books I wouldn't mind having copies off...and I get unlimited photocopies....and I do use those books for work....

nuac · 03-03-2012 1:41pm

Any statement yet from SF on this.

I think they are hoping it will go away - not likely to do so

walshb · 03-03-2012 1:42pm

nuac wrote: »

I think they are hoping it will go away - not likely to do so

Eh, very likely to do so, isn't that the problem here in Ireland?

Liam Byrne · 03-03-2012 1:44pm

raymon wrote: »

I think we are all being too lenient here.

Let's say I started swiping the coffee at work. I am entitled to free coffee after all. There is no rule that says stealing the coffee is prohibited. And because I was told coffee is free I am not breaking the law.
Every evening I throw a few bags of freshly ground into my bag. I do this for a few years until someone tells me to stop.

Now I am not a thief so this scenario is hypothetical.

If I was caught I would be fired I am sure. Or sent to counselling for kleptomania.

Why are politicians different than workers in the real world?

You probably don't get paid extra for actually turning up to work either, or expenses for actually getting to work.

nuac · 03-03-2012 6:48pm

In any organisation such abuse of resources would risk disciplinary action - exept Dáil Éireann.

yourpics · 03-03-2012 10:34pm

raymon wrote: »

I think we are all being too lenient here.

Let's say I started swiping the coffee at work. I am entitled to free coffee after all. There is no rule that says stealing the coffee is prohibited. And because I was told coffee is free I am not breaking the law.
Every evening I throw a few bags of freshly ground into my bag. I do this for a few years until someone tells me to stop.

Coffee? Like Minister for Health James O'Reilly who spent over €600 on 2 coffee machines, too lazy to walk to the canteen!

Raiser · 03-03-2012 10:51pm

nuac wrote: »

Any statement yet from SF on this.

I think they are hoping it will go away - not likely to do so

Are you mad? Rabid Mary Lou already came out and blamed the 'system'.

- Be a good little dumb as fcuk Irish person now and forget all about it.

SF have always made my skin crawl...... never met a Shinner that I could tolerate for more than 30 long seconds either.......

GombeanMan · 03-03-2012 10:55pm

This cNut should be forced out of office over this. No justification for this whatsoever. I would consider this as an act of criminal theft. This guy is a thief.

raymon · 03-03-2012 10:56pm

yourpics wrote: »

Coffee? Like Minister for Health James O'Reilly who spent over €600 on 2 coffee machines, too lazy to walk to the canteen!

That was excessive.

However the thread is not about Reilly

It is about o Snodaigh

50,000 euros vs 600 euros ......

tayto lover · 04-03-2012 12:12am

nuac wrote: »

Any statement yet from SF on this.

I think they are hoping it will go away - not likely to do so

This will probably go on until Christmas. I can hear it in my mind already -

" two turtle doves,
... and a cartridge in a pear tree"

Liam Byrne · 04-03-2012 12:35am

nuac wrote: »

Any statement yet from SF on this.

I think they are hoping it will go away - not likely to do so

We should constantly remind them about it until the individual involved is forced to resign.

You've actually prompted the perfect karma campaign slogan :

"It hasn't gone away you know"

gerryo777 · 04-03-2012 12:41am

Liam Byrne wrote: »

We should constantly remind them about it until the individual involved is forced to resign.

You've actually prompted the perfect karma campaign slogan :

"It hasn't gone away you know"

If every TD who fiddles their expenses were to resign, there wouldn't be one left.
They're all corrupt, one way or another.

Sully · 04-03-2012 2:12am

yourpics wrote: »

Coffee? Like Minister for Health James O'Reilly who spent over €600 on 2 coffee machines, too lazy to walk to the canteen!

This was denied by one of his colleagues on Facebook. Have you proof to support this accusation? I never did hear about this in the media.

raymon · 04-03-2012 2:28am

Sully wrote: »

This was denied by one of his colleagues on Facebook. Have you proof to support this accusation? I never did hear about this in the media.

In any case , o Snodaigh took this amount of printer cartridges ( 600 euro ) every single week for 2 years.

If I was o reilly I would check if my coffee machine was still there... I would fasten it down with an anti theft device. ( I am not implying that O Snodaigh would steal it...... but it is always a good idea to secure items of value)

Liam Byrne · 04-03-2012 3:50am

gerryo777 wrote: »

Liam Byrne wrote: »

We should constantly remind them about it until the individual involved is forced to resign.

You've actually prompted the perfect karma campaign slogan :

"It hasn't gone away you know"

If every TD who fiddles their expenses were to resign, there wouldn't be one left.
They're all corrupt, one way or another.

If that's true then great! Get rid of all the leeching con-men in one go!

Pompey Magnus · 04-03-2012 6:56am

Sully wrote: »

This was denied by one of his colleagues on Facebook. Have you proof to support this accusation? I never did hear about this in the media.

Link

James Reilly spent €624 of taxpayers’ money on two deluxe Bewley’s coffee machines — one for each of his offices. One has been installed in his office in the health department at Hawkins House while the other sits in his Leinster House rooms.

His spokesman said the minister needed the machines because he worked long hours and the Dáil restaurant and department canteen were not always open.

Which colleague denied it?

kippy · 04-03-2012 10:01am

A least we know where the coffee machine is, what it does and who is using it.Which is a lot more than we know about 50K worth of toner/ink.
600 euro on a coffee machine is a disgrace, but I would class this as a waste of money as opposed to a potential abuse of power/privilege.
There are spendings in the public service that need to be questioned and in a time of austerity, indeed any spending such as this coffee machine are to be frowned on and I agree that the people who sign off on this spending need to be taken to account. An ideal area for the PAC at the very least. The PAC is made up of politicians however and that is an issue.

john reilly · 04-03-2012 10:52am

Sully wrote: »

This was denied by one of his colleagues on Facebook. Have you proof to support this accusation? I never did hear about this in the mea.[/diQUOTE]

sure why would you he's not in sinn fein

john reilly · 04-03-2012 10:55am

tayto lover wrote: »

This will probably go on until Christmas. I can hear it in my mind already -

" two turtle doves,
... and a cartridge in a pear tree"

it probably will.

kippy · 04-03-2012 11:23am

john reilly wrote: »

Sully wrote: »

This was denied by one of his colleagues on Facebook. Have you proof to support this accusation? I never did hear about this in the mea.[/diQUOTE]

sure why would you he's not in sinn fein

SF really have a persecution complex don't they?
Search this forum for threads on John O Donohoe, Ivor Callelly (multiple threads) and many more cross party politicians who have been acting inappropriately.
The reason this might piss off SF supporters is simply because the years of trying to replace the association with the IRA and what they did, with an image of a "working mans" party with the good of the country at heart have been wasted with this one piece of factual information.
The fact that the item hasn't been handled at all well and that the answers given to add up when scrutinised by anyone but a hardcore party supporter make the issue all the worse.

rodento · 04-03-2012 11:35am

This is well worth the read

http://www.independent.ie/opinion/analysis/jim-cusack-shinner-abuses-the-system-but-doesnt-explain-3038837.html

nuac · 04-03-2012 11:37am

Good post Kippy!

Also we must remember that criticisng this abuse of cartridges of any kind is an attempt to undermine the peace process by West Brits.

Monty Burnz · 04-03-2012 11:42am

rodento wrote: »

This is well worth the read

http://www.independent.ie/opinion/analysis/jim-cusack-shinner-abuses-the-system-but-doesnt-explain-3038837.html

Expect the Shinners to attack the journalist, not the facts of the story the journalist tells (which are beyond dispute).

sandin · 04-03-2012 12:37pm

O'Snodaigh and Sinn Fein have always beeing overly fond of cartridges,

Just that O'Snodaigh was too stupid to realise that it wasn't ink cartridges that were wanted.

Liam Byrne · 04-03-2012 12:49pm

Monty Burnz wrote: »

rodento wrote: »

This is well worth the read

http://www.independent.ie/opinion/analysis/jim-cusack-shinner-abuses-the-system-but-doesnt-explain-3038837.html

Expect the Shinners to attack the journalist, not the facts of the story the journalist tells (which are beyond dispute).

Well to be fair it is the Sindo, and what they can come out with losely based on one or two facts is equivalent to a McDonalds burger : "we start with 100% Irish beef...."

04-03-2012 12:55pm

rodento wrote: »

This is well worth the read

http://www.independent.ie/opinion/analysis/jim-cusack-shinner-abuses-the-system-but-doesnt-explain-3038837.html

At 3.10am on May 2, 2004, O Snodaigh's wife, Aishling Ni Dalaigh, and her sister Niamh were leaving a Sinn Fein function in the Abbey Hotel, Dublin, when a glass was thrown at a garda patrol car, as the two gardai were in the process of calling an ambulance.

When a barman told Garda Bernard Mullens and Garda Gareth Kane that it was thrown by a woman standing in a group outside the hotel they asked O Snodaigh's wife, Ni Dalaigh, about it. Garda Mullens said she was drunk and cursing and shouting.

"Other people were trying to stop us from arresting her, they told us we'd be in trouble as her husband is a TD," said Garda Mullens in evidence at Dublin District Court in January, 2005.

Garda Kane said that Niamh Ni Dalaigh called him "a ****ing scumbag" and a "Free State bastard" and told him he would lose his job, because their prisoner was the wife of a Sinn Fein TD.

Judge William Early said he had no doubt that the person who threw the glass was O Snodaigh's wife. He said he would normally apply the Probation Act, adding: "However, people who invoke political parties and other organisations in their support to threaten gardai do not, it seems to me, deserve the Probation Act."

Scum.

gerryo777 · 04-03-2012 12:56pm

Liam Byrne wrote: »

If that's true then great! Get rid of all the leeching con-men in one go!

We're being ran from Brussels anyway, sure all we need here is one TD to run each department, just to implement what they are told to implement.

Monty Burnz · 04-03-2012 1:18pm

Liam Byrne wrote: »

Well to be fair it is the Sindo, and what they can come out with losely based on one or two facts is equivalent to a McDonalds burger : "we start with 100% Irish beef...."

The Sindo is a contemptible rag, but the journalist sticks to hard facts in outlining the type of person O'Snodaigh has chosen to surround himself with. If any of these factual claims are untrue, O'Snodaigh can take the Sindo to court and make himself a nice 6-figure sum and repair his reputation.

He won't take them to court, and we all know why.

Pompey Magnus · 04-03-2012 2:18pm

Monty Burnz wrote: »

The Sindo is a contemptible rag, but the journalist sticks to hard facts in outlining the type of person O'Snodaigh has chosen to surround himself with. If any of these factual claims are untrue, O'Snodaigh can take the Sindo to court and make himself a nice 6-figure sum and repair his reputation.

He won't take them to court, and we all know why.

Well one "fact" that definitely is untrue in the article is the claim that election posters relating to O Snodaigh were found in the van. There was no material relating to him in the van. The posters were found in an unoccupied Nissan Almera which was in the area (and none of the 5 arrested had arrived in this car, they all arrived in a Micra).

I am also fairly sure (but not certain) that none of the 5 arrested were members of Sinn Fein but the article claims they all were.

Monty Burnz · 04-03-2012 2:31pm

Pompey Magnus wrote: »

Well one "fact" that definitely is untrue in the article is the claim that election posters relating to O Snodaigh were found in the van. There was no material relating to him in the van. The posters were found in an unoccupied Nissan Almera which was in the area (and none of the 5 arrested had arrived in this car, they all arrived in a Micra).

The facts from the trial:

GARDAI recovered a large quantity of Sinn Fein posters - including election posters for Sinn Fein TD Aengus O Snodaigh - from a car in which they also found a stun gun and CS gas canister, the trial of five men accused of IRA membership heard yesterday.
The Special Criminal Court was shown the posters which read 'Sinn Fein No 1 Aengus O Snodaigh', and also the stun gun which was recovered by gardai from the boot of a Nissan Almera car in Bray in October, 2002.

Another poster found in the car said 'Sinn Fein says no to bin charges'.

Cable ties, car number plates, a blue flashing light similar to that used in emergency vehicles, and a roll of tape were also discovered.

Do you think these men were innocent, or not linked to O'Snodaigh?

Pompey Magnus · 04-03-2012 2:52pm

Monty Burnz wrote: »

The facts from the trial:

Do you think these men were innocent, or not linked to O'Snodaigh?

I think they were guilty, I'm just not at all convinced of their link to O' Snodaigh as I haven't seen what connection the 5 men were shown to have had with the Almera except that it was in the same area. The 5 men arrived in a Nissan Micra, got into the van and later the Almera was checked. What connection was shown between this car and the men? Why did Jim Cusak say the posters were found in the van when they weren't?

Also where did he get the detail about all 5 being members of Sinn Fein?

nuac · 04-03-2012 2:58pm

Anybody know if the evidence of the finding of the AOS posters were challenged at the trial?

john reilly · 04-03-2012 3:03pm

Rojomcdojo wrote: »

Scum.

true. what were the gardai doing at a sinn fein party. some might say they went there just to agravate and provoke people out enjoying a night out. people might think that volunteering to help your country is a bad thing. people might think gardai tell the truth when they are in the witness box and some people just dont have a clue

Monty Burnz · 04-03-2012 3:14pm

Pompey Magnus wrote: »

I think they were guilty, I'm just not at all convinced of their link to O' Snodaigh as I haven't seen what connection the 5 men were shown to have had with the Almera except that it was in the same area. The 5 men arrived in a Nissan Micra, got into the van and later the Almera was checked. What connection was shown between this car and the men? Why did Jim Cusak say the posters were found in the van when they weren't?

Presumably the court was satisfied that the Almeira was being used by the men.

Otherwise you are asking us to believe that:

1. A bunch of IRA men were off on an escapade.
2. They were stopped at random beside a car full of O'Snodaigh and terrorist paraphernalia.
3. The Gardaí randomly searched the car for no reason.

I think we can rule that out. Bertie Ahern would blush if he expected us to believe that stuff.

Pompey Magnus wrote: »

Also where did he get the detail about all 5 being members of Sinn Fein?

Good question. The posters and cable ties could be explained if they just really liked to hang up posters of O'Snodaigh's face in their free time during elections.

Sinn Fein should sue the Sindo if it's not based on fact. They won't.

rodento · 04-03-2012 3:51pm

Why did O'Snodaigh phone the guards if they were nothing to do with SF

That evening, O Snodaigh rang Bray garda station to inquire about the whereabouts of one of his electoral workers

Liam Byrne · 04-03-2012 4:20pm

john reilly wrote: »

Rojomcdojo wrote: »

Scum.

true. what were the gardai doing at a sinn fein party. some might say they went there just to agravate and provoke people out enjoying a night out. people might think that volunteering to help your country is a bad thing. people might think gardai tell the truth when they are in the witness box and some people just dont have a clue

Others seem to think that SF tell the truth, or even worse, suggest that we ignore the lies and fraud even when they accept that they're not telling the truth and try to deflect onto other issues.

Sierra Oscar · 04-03-2012 8:13pm

john reilly wrote: »

true. what were the gardai doing at a sinn fein party. some might say they went there just to agravate and provoke people out enjoying a night out. people might think that volunteering to help your country is a bad thing. people might think gardai tell the truth when they are in the witness box and some people just dont have a clue

Indeed, its all a conspiracy against SF. :rolleyes:

Rafa1977 · 04-03-2012 8:42pm

Cant wait until the Stationery and Photocopying Paper FOI's are released!!

Liam Byrne · 04-03-2012 8:47pm

Rafa1977 wrote: »

Cant wait until the Stationery and Photocopying Paper FOI's are released!!

Hopefully via email - if they have to print out AO'S's he'll claim for twice the ink!

yourpics · 05-03-2012 1:27am

Sully wrote: »

This was denied by one of his colleagues on Facebook. Have you proof to support this accusation? I never did hear about this in the media.

http://www.herald.ie/news/no-tea-for-mum-who-gave-birth-but-reilly-gets-600-coffee-makers-3004189.html

Sully · 05-03-2012 1:39am

yourpics wrote: »

http://www.herald.ie/news/no-tea-for-mum-who-gave-birth-but-reilly-gets-600-coffee-makers-3004189.html

Just as bad as what Sinn Fein did tbh, but id prefer to see the original article on the revelation from a more credible paper.

SF Aengus O'Snodaigh has claimed €50,000 in expenses for Printer Ink

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