The new trafic mess on the Quay.

The_Shotz · 16-12-2014 7:22pm

cgcsb wrote: »

with a new pedestrian bridge,

I'd say we'll be doing well to see this in our lifetime!

I think the Waterford bike scheme was also shelved

http://m.rte.ie/news/2013/0611/456034-public-bike-scheme-cities/

7upfree · 16-12-2014 9:33pm

Sully wrote: »

I wouldn't take the bypass to go to Ardkeen.... and I take the bypass a fair bit to avoid the quays!

But according to yourself theres no problem with traffic flow on the Quays.........:)

From your post in August.........

"Was on the quays again today just before 4pm so kept an eye on the time. Took exactly 25mins to get from John Street, down to the railway station and back down to the tower hotel. This is despite the City being at it's busiest and despite the quay being further restricted due to a lane closure to facilitate the music in the Plaza".

obezyana · 16-12-2014 10:57pm

I encountered another ambulance trying to get up the quay this evening it got caught in light traffic by the traffic lights at the clock tower it could barely get through even tho it wasn't busy, the works are not giving me much belief that they are a good thing given the hassle it can be for Emergency vehicles to get through.

cgcsb · 16-12-2014 11:59pm

The_Shotz wrote: »

I'd say we'll be doing well to see this in our lifetime! 
 
I think the Waterford bike scheme was also shelved 
 
http://m.rte.ie/news/2013/0611/456034-public-bike-scheme-cities/

The bike scheme will eventually get going. In 2 years the cork limerick and Galway schemes will be due an expansion. Belfast will be getting its own scheme and at that point integration of the schemes with leap will get going. Eventually new schemes will be reviewed, Waterford, Sligo, Athlone and some others will be considered.

cgcsb · 17-12-2014 12:01am

obezyana wrote: »

I encountered another ambulance trying to get up the quay this evening it got caught in light traffic by the traffic lights at the clock tower it could barely get through even tho it wasn't busy, the works are not giving me much belief that they are a good thing given the hassle it can be for Emergency vehicles to get through.

Ambulances encountering traffic obstacles is a feature of urban environments the world over.

wmpdd3 · 17-12-2014 2:13am

But this issue didn't exist when each side on the quay was 2 lanes wide, when each lane moved there was room down the middle for an ambulance. This often happens on the bridge.

wellboytoo · 17-12-2014 9:15am

wmpdd3 wrote: »

But this issue didn't exist when each side on the quay was 2 lanes wide, when each lane moved there was room down the middle for an ambulance. This often happens on the bridge.

All the other terrible things that were predicted to happen didn't, so this is all you have to hang onto?

obezyana · 17-12-2014 10:42am

cgcsb wrote: »

Ambulances encountering traffic obstacles is a feature of urban environments the world over.

Yes i know that i never said things like this dont happen anywhere else. So let me ask you this, are you suggesting that its OK that the Emergency services are caught up in traffic. Would you like it if some one you knew was in an accident and the Ambulance didn't get to the scene on time because it got caught in traffic on the quay? I'm not against the works on the quay but its clear to see that it has created a major problem for the Emergency services.

wellboytoo · 17-12-2014 10:47am

obezyana wrote: »

Yes i know that i never said things like this dont happen anywhere else. So let me ask you this, are you suggesting that its OK that the Emergency services are caught up in traffic. Would you like it if some one you knew was in an accident and the Ambulance didn't get to the scene on time because it got caught in traffic on the quay? I'm not against the works on the quay but its clear to see that it has created a major problem for the Emergency services.

It's not a Major problem, it's an every day problem for all emergency services, as are drivers who panic when they see flashing lights in their mirror and stop in the middle of the road.

obezyana · 17-12-2014 10:59am

wellboytoo wrote: »

It's not a Major problem, it's an every day problem for all emergency services, as is drivers who panic when they see flashing lights in their mirror and stop in the middle of the road.

The two times iv encountered it there was no room at all for the ambulance to get through. There was actually no space for anyone to pull in. I was lucky as i seen the lights flashing before it was near me and i happened to be just in front of a parking spot by the GPO so i could pull in but others could not and it took alot of close calls for the Ambulance to eventually squeeze through the traffic.

I get that you are all for these changes on the quay as am I but you honestly dont have a good case that there is no problem there when it comes to the Emergency services getting through the quays. It is a problem a big problem. I can only imagine what it would be like if an Fire engine was trying to make its way along the quay.

Actually can I ask you a question, have you actually seen any of the Emergency services try and get through there when there is traffic?

Minister · 17-12-2014 11:36am

I was chatting with an Ambulance Driver last week and he said they are really frustrated at the delays on the Quay due to lack of room. The space is just not there to get past traffic.

Also, he said that they are also conscious of a patient when transporting them; which means that if they are taking a through route via smaller streets in town the patient experiences excessive movement due to frequent turns and some speed humps. This also makes it more difficult if the paramedic is treating the patient enroute to the ED.

cgcsb · 17-12-2014 12:14pm

obezyana wrote: »

Yes i know that i never said things like this dont happen anywhere else. So let me ask you this, are you suggesting that its OK that the Emergency services are caught up in traffic. Would you like it if some one you knew was in an accident and the Ambulance didn't get to the scene on time because it got caught in traffic on the quay? I'm not against the works on the quay but its clear to see that it has created a major problem for the Emergency services.

That's making a sort of emotive ransom really. Ambulances in all cities generally know where the busiest spots are and how best to avoid them, e.g. by going the wrong way down one way systems, driving up on the foot path etc. If it were as big an issue as you claim, would you be opposed to another lane being added for emergency service vehicles only? Or is it just that the ambulances provide a justification for ploughing a dual carriageway through the river front.

mire · 17-12-2014 12:28pm

Ambulances have to deal with traffic and road works. It's messy and often frustrating, even dangerous. It's a universal issue. People trying to use this issue as a basis for a wholesale critique of the quay scheme are simply missing the point. Get over it.

obezyana · 17-12-2014 1:09pm

cgcsb wrote: »

That's making a sort of emotive ransom really. Ambulances in all cities generally know where the busiest spots are and how best to avoid them, e.g. by going the wrong way down one way systems, driving up on the foot path etc. If it were as big an issue as you claim, would you be opposed to another lane being added for emergency service vehicles only? Or is it just that the ambulances provide a justification for ploughing a dual carriageway through the river front.

OK so your constant argument is that the Ambulances have to deal with it as its something that happens in every city. Think about it for a minute......if the Emergency services have to get across to Ferrybank they used to be able to go across the quay pretty much unobstructed but now its no longer like that. Now you could say oh they could go another route but here is the problem, most others routes around the town can be too long to get around or the traffic can be just as bad as it is on the quay at this moment.

Anybody who works in the Emergency service will tell you time is of the essence its one of the most important things and that now is being
hampered by the problem the traffic on the quay is now creating.

It would be great if there was somebody on here who actually worked in the Emergency services and could give their opinion. I reckon (as Minister above has said) they would say its a hindrance to them.

cgcsb · 17-12-2014 2:10pm

obezyana wrote: »

OK so your constant argument is that the Ambulances have to deal with it as its something that happens in every city. Think about it for a minute......if the Emergency services have to get across to Ferrybank they used to be able to go across the quay pretty much unobstructed but now its no longer like that. Now you could say oh they could go another route but here is the problem, most others routes around the town can be too long to get around or the traffic can be just as bad as it is on the quay at this moment.

Anybody who works in the Emergency service will tell you time is of the essence its one of the most important things and that now is being
hampered by the problem the traffic on the quay is now creating.

It would be great if there was somebody on here who actually worked in the Emergency services and could give their opinion. I reckon (as Minister above has said) they would say its a hindrance to them.

It has been shown, study after study that more road capacity=more cars that'll be attracted to use it. The more cars the more traffic. If the quays remained as a 70's style dualer eventually it'd be too congested for an ambulance to get through anyway. Would you advocate widening then? Just for the odd ambulance?

The traffic will reduce anyway. When the project is finished a great many drivers will cop that this route isn't handy to use and they'll either find a different route or switch to a more sustainable mode, bus or bike.

It's been shown time and time again, take Dublin's O'Connel Street, it's one that was a major traffic blackspot, now most drivers avoid it, indeed most drivers avoid the City Centre entirely.

I have a solution to your problem. Make the remaining traffic lanes on the Quays a high quality bus way. Then there'll be no traffic and plenty of space for an ambulance to wiggle through.

hardybuck · 17-12-2014 3:05pm

Does anyone have the costs of this project to hand?

hairybelly · 17-12-2014 3:20pm

Lads, what we need is a big fúckin tunnel that goes from ferrybank under the river that comes out of the band stand in the peoples park!
Then we need to slap a bridge between slieverue and the hospital to connect the ringroads.

tell ya boi we'd be sorted.

obezyana · 17-12-2014 10:31pm

cgcsb wrote: »

It has been shown, study after study that more road capacity=more cars that'll be attracted to use it. The more cars the more traffic. If the quays remained as a 70's style dualer eventually it'd be too congested for an ambulance to get through anyway. Would you advocate widening then? Just for the odd ambulance?

The traffic will reduce anyway. When the project is finished a great many drivers will cop that this route isn't handy to use and they'll either find a different route or switch to a more sustainable mode, bus or bike.

It's been shown time and time again, take Dublin's O'Connel Street, it's one that was a major traffic blackspot, now most drivers avoid it, indeed most drivers avoid the City Centre entirely.

I have a solution to your problem. Make the remaining traffic lanes on the Quays a high quality bus way. Then there'll be no traffic and plenty of space for an ambulance to wiggle through.

OK so ill go with the ones in bold.

1; Even if one Ambulance is held up and some one unfortunately dies because of it then that's one too many in my opinion.

2; Indeed many may avoid the quays ........and they will go and add traffic to some other part of the town.

3; A lot of people avoid many parts of Dublin for traffic reason but Dublin is congested all of the time and i would love to see any info on traffic levels before and after what you say about O'Connell street.

4; Its not my problem I have no issues driving the quays whether there is traffic or not as being stuck in traffic doesn't bother me, again its the problem that the Emergency services are encountering.

7upfree · 17-12-2014 10:41pm

cgcsb wrote: »

Ambulances encountering traffic obstacles is a feature of urban environments the world over.

Not where they didn't exist in the first instance.

7upfree · 17-12-2014 10:42pm

wellboytoo wrote: »

All the other terrible things that were predicted to happen didn't, so this is all you have to hang onto?

No-one's "hanging onto" anything. This scheme is hair-brained. They haven't closed off the end of Conduit Lane yet. For obvious reasons.

7upfree · 17-12-2014 10:44pm

cgcsb wrote: »

That's making a sort of emotive ransom really. Ambulances in all cities generally know where the busiest spots are and how best to avoid them, e.g. by going the wrong way down one way systems, driving up on the foot path etc. If it were as big an issue as you claim, would you be opposed to another lane being added for emergency service vehicles only? Or is it just that the ambulances provide a justification for ploughing a dual carriageway through the river front.

Wow. Great plans. Instead of leaving the access to the hospital (which was fine) alone, let's drive on paths and the wrong way down one way streets. It'll be ever so safe. :roll eyes:

As for "emotive ransom' you would't be saying that if it was one of your own.

robtri · 18-12-2014 12:32am

plenty of room for emergency services topass cars..

problem is the citizens of waterford parking like idiots and making that impossible

wellboytoo · 18-12-2014 9:37am

7upfree wrote: »

No-one's "hanging onto" anything. This scheme is hair-brained. They haven't closed off the end of Conduit Lane yet. For obvious reasons.

Whoa there, without trawling back through your many posts on this matter, you were very sure it would not work as far as traffic flow was concerned, namely cars backed up all the way down exchange street onto the Quays, and many other examples.
We are now in the busiest traffic period of the year and none of this has happened, traffic is flowing smoothly, slowly at times due to those damned pedestrians crossing the street but flowing all the time.
It looks well the trees are going to be lovely in leaf, the roundabouts allow you to do a 180 on the Quay without holding up traffic, the perception of being nearer the water works.
As regards Conduit lane, it will never be closed off, as someone with your extensive knowledge of traffic would know, there is not enough space to swing an artic left onto the Quay, so it will always be there,
So what exactly is "hair brained" about it now please do tell?

Minister · 18-12-2014 10:50am

Remember the fire service also. It can be particularly awkward for them to traverse the city and traffic given their physical structure.

The firepersons (see I can do PC!!) are driving trucks; and having driven trucks for years I can assure you getting around the centre of town streets in a 18 tonne rigid can be awkward given that Waterford is a Medieval city, in parts, and also because of its topography - not to mention drivers who panic! They are also slowed down because of the layout on the Quay.

wmpdd3 · 18-12-2014 11:47am

The mail had been hit on the head.

Can't quote on the phone but whi ever said better road equals more traffic is spot on. We now have worse road and a hope that less traffic will use it.

But the issue is, what are the alternatives?

For shoping, I used to take the bus but now that takes ages....... Due to delays in the quay and Dunmore road. A ten minutes journey takes 20 once the bus arrives.

If I'm traveling through town, I go up ballybricken and down all the side steets, weaving through residential areas.

If I really need to go shopping I just drive to lisduggan shopping center and forget about town.

I have to drive through town every day add the busses no longer run by the time I finish work, Waterford cc have changed my behavior.......... By driving me out of the town.

I'm not the only one. In work the other night we could.'t name one of the new shops that opened on the quay in the last year because none of us pass there anymore. We are all from Waterford.

cgcsb · 18-12-2014 12:40pm

7upfree wrote: »

Wow. Great plans. Instead of leaving the access to the hospital (which was fine) alone, let's drive on paths and the wrong way down one way streets. It'll be ever so safe. :roll eyes:

Ambulances do that all the time and people get out of the way.

cgcsb · 18-12-2014 12:44pm

wmpdd3 wrote: »

The mail had been hit on the head.

Can't quote on the phone but whi ever said better road equals more traffic is spot on. We now have worse road and a hope that less traffic will use it.

But the issue is, what are the alternatives?

For shoping, I used to take the bus but now that takes ages....... Due to delays in the quay and Dunmore road. A ten minutes journey takes 20 once the bus arrives.

If I'm traveling through town, I go up ballybricken and down all the side steets, weaving through residential areas.

If I really need to go shopping I just drive to lisduggan shopping center and forget about town.

I have to drive through town every day add the busses no longer run by the time I finish work, Waterford cc have changed my behavior.......... By driving me out of the town.

I'm not the only one. In work the other night we could.'t name one of the new shops that opened on the quay in the last year because none of us pass there anymore. We are all from Waterford.

So more bus priority and a more frequent service? perhaps a bus only quay side?

Minister · 18-12-2014 1:32pm

wmpdd3 wrote: »

The mail had been hit on the head.

Can't quote on the phone but whi ever said better road equals more traffic is spot on. We now have worse road and a hope that less traffic will use it.

But the issue is, what are the alternatives?

For shoping, I used to take the bus but now that takes ages....... Due to delays in the quay and Dunmore road. A ten minutes journey takes 20 once the bus arrives.

If I really need to go shopping I just drive to lisduggan shopping center and forget about town.

I have to drive through town every day add the busses no longer run by the time I finish work, Waterford cc have changed my behavior.......... By driving me out of the town.

I'm not the only one. In work the other night we could.'t name one of the new shops that opened on the quay in the last year because none of us pass there anymore. We are all from Waterford.

Indeed, I have shortened the quote to reflect the effect, as I see it, of the changes to the traffic flow on the quay.

I know I have spoken of the effects on emergency services.

But, there are people who work in the city centre affected. I try to avoid driving in town during the day and avoid the quay altogether. If I must go into town I cycle. But that means, I cannot do much shopping. Cycling is faster than the bus from Ferrybank.

If others also do this, then the businesses in the city centre will suffer and ultimately jobs will be lost. When driving, it is quicker and cheaper for me to go to the suburbs and get what I need or my business done. Banks are out there, post offices, coffee shops etc. Also, I will use email and online shopping to avoid going in to the centre of town.

WMPDD3, if I am correct, alludes to the economic effects. I agree that this will be a negative situation for people employed in town.

7upfree · 18-12-2014 10:32pm

Minister wrote: »

Indeed, I have shortened the quote to reflect the effect, as I see it, of the changes to the traffic flow on the quay.

I know I have spoken of the effects on emergency services.

But, there are people who work in the city centre affected. I try to avoid driving in town during the day and avoid the quay altogether. If I must go into town I cycle. But that means, I cannot do much shopping. Cycling is faster than the bus from Ferrybank.

If others also do this, then the businesses in the city centre will suffer and ultimately jobs will be lost. When driving, it is quicker and cheaper for me to go to the suburbs and get what I need or my business done. Banks are out there, post offices, coffee shops etc. Also, I will use email and online shopping to avoid going in to the centre of town.

WMPDD3, if I am correct, alludes to the economic effects. I agree that this will be a negative situation for people employed in town.

The problem is that the ones responsible for this abomination haven't factored in the modern issues you list above.

7upfree · 18-12-2014 10:36pm

wellboytoo wrote: »

Whoa there, without trawling back through your many posts on this matter, you were very sure it would not work as far as traffic flow was concerned, namely cars backed up all the way down exchange street onto the Quays, and many other examples.
We are now in the busiest traffic period of the year and none of this has happened, traffic is flowing smoothly, slowly at times due to those damned pedestrians crossing the street but flowing all the time.
It looks well the trees are going to be lovely in leaf, the roundabouts allow you to do a 180 on the Quay without holding up traffic, the perception of being nearer the water works.
As regards Conduit lane, it will never be closed off, as someone with your extensive knowledge of traffic would know, there is not enough space to swing an artic left onto the Quay, so it will always be there,
So what exactly is "hair brained" about it now please do tell?

They haven't closed off Conduit Lane,. For obvious reasons. Ergo the traffic is still flowing. The exit from Conduit lane across the Quay will be closed off as part of the madness that is "the green route".

As for hair-brained, I've noted - on several occasions - pedestrians using the island in the middle to cross the road. On a scheme adjudged to be "making things safer".:roll eyes:

But I suppose the diehards will continue to defend this farce.

wellboytoo · 19-12-2014 9:39am

7upfree wrote: »

As for hair-brained, I've noted - on several occasions - pedestrians using the island in the middle to cross the road. On a scheme adjudged to be "making things safer".:roll eyes:

But I suppose the diehards will continue to defend this farce.

Oh now I get you, it's people are the real problem,we should have put an eight foot high pallisade fence down the middle of the Quay to stop them crossing, because that is the only way you will, no matter what design you put in there.

You are against everything but for nothing, what would you have done with it?, and leave it as it was is not an answer.

Cabaal · 19-12-2014 11:45am

I'd like to remind everyone that if you have a problem with another users post then report it, it is not your place to back seat mod.

I've removed a number of off-topic de-railing posts from this thread,

Cabaal · 19-12-2014 11:54am

7upfree wrote: »

As for hair-brained, I've noted - on several occasions - pedestrians using the island in the middle to cross the road. On a scheme adjudged to be "making things safer".:roll eyes:

I've seen hundreds upon hundreds of people over the years before the changes on the quays try to cross four lanes of traffic, utterly insane really....lucky alot of people haven't been killed especially given the speed motorists were doing.

People using the middle island when the traffic is slower then it used to be is FAR FAR safer then the old layout of the quays, unless you think its actually more dangerous now that the traffic is slower?

Yes people crossing in this manner is illegal (jaywalking is illegal in Ireland after all), but thats the fault of the people doing it...not the council.

The only solution to stop these people is either 1. enforce the law or 2. Build a 7 foot high fence in the middle of the road....or secret option number 3 which most Irish people have a serious issue with...obey the law when it comes to road use.

Now of course if you're going to claim that the Gardai need to crack down on jaywalkers on the quays then to be fair they need to crack down on it everywhere. Its a far far bigger issue in Dublin then Waterford, so they can start there perhaps.

Ask yourself, when was the last time you crossed a road illegally? Are you going to turn yourself for a jaywalking fine?

7upfree · 19-12-2014 6:04pm

wellboytoo wrote: »

Oh now I get you, it's people are the real problem,we should have put an eight foot high pallisade fence down the middle of the Quay to stop them crossing, because that is the only way you will, no matter what design you put in there.

You are against everything but for nothing, what would you have done with it?, and leave it as it was is not an answer.

The obvious thing. Not put it there in the first place. And I suppose your font of knowledge supersedes everyone else on here?

7upfree · 19-12-2014 6:04pm

Cabaal wrote: »

I'd like to remind everyone that if you have a problem with another users post then report it, it is not your place to back seat mod.

I've removed a number of off-topic de-railing posts from this thread,

Hopefully that applies across the board. Including mods.

wmpdd3 · 19-12-2014 7:22pm

I contacted the council about the island over a year ago as I nearly hit someone using the one outside the Cantec / Irish cancer shop, they said the island is pretty much there for that reason.

If that is the case, put in orange flashing lights like kilkenny and let pedestrians cross safely.

I have just given up walking there at all. the last issue was a person who did a u turn at the clock tower back into the pedestrian crossing. Couldnt do that when it was two lanes.

wellboytoo · 19-12-2014 7:42pm

7upfree wrote: »

The obvious thing. Not put it there in the first place. And I suppose your font of knowledge supersedes everyone else on here?

Still smarting from that rub I see, but no answer as usual , you should join Sinn Fein against everything with no counter proposals.
I give up and will not converse with you on this subject again as it is a one way street.

7upfree · 20-12-2014 12:49pm

wellboytoo wrote: »

Still smarting from that rub I see, but no answer as usual , you should join Sinn Fein against everything with no counter proposals.
I give up and will not converse with you on this subject again as it is a one way street.

Lol! "Still smarting"? Hard to believe you can be that arrogant really.

7upfree · 20-12-2014 12:50pm

wmpdd3 wrote: »

I contacted the council about the island over a year ago as I nearly hit someone using the one outside the Cantec / Irish cancer shop, they said the island is pretty much there for that reason.

If that is the case, put in orange flashing lights like kilkenny and let pedestrians cross safely.

I have just given up walking there at all. the last issue was a person who did a u turn at the clock tower back into the pedestrian crossing. Couldnt do that when it was two lanes.

But it's "safer now" doncha know.;)

allthedoyles · 21-12-2014 1:48am

Drove over and back the quay today , and noticed a lack of pedestrian crossings .

There were a few pedestrians crossing the road in front of me , but not at the designated places .

wellboytoo · 21-12-2014 2:48pm

7upfree wrote: »

Lol! "Still smarting"? Hard to believe you can be that arrogant really.

Bmhl, the definition of irony, being called arrogant by 7upfree!

7upfree · 21-12-2014 10:58pm

wellboytoo wrote: »

Bmhl, the definition of irony, being called arrogant by 7upfree!

Takes one to know one.:D

wmpdd3 · 21-12-2014 11:23pm

Not really part of it, but I love the new lights on the bridge, that are beautiful .

All week there have been workers in cherry pickers after midnight fixing them. They were so brave to hover above the side of the bridge.

wellboytoo · 23-12-2014 12:59pm

The Phoenix column in this week's News and Star makes good reading on this subject and other topical issues here, they say some things I would like to say here but would probably get me an infraction.

Max Powers · 23-12-2014 1:52pm

wellboytoo wrote: »

The Phoenix column in this week's News and Star makes good reading on this subject and other topical issues here, they say some things I would like to say here but would probably get me an infraction.

yeah, read that this morning, good. There are a few on here and out in public that think that the old road was better.....i think that is pure lunacy

Somebody posted about the lights on Rice bridge, totally agree, they do look great.

Sully · 25-12-2014 2:37pm

I see that people are ignoring the advanced warning signs and road markings when you're coming from the bridge into Waterford. Left lane is for left only into the car park and the right lane is for straight on. Seeing as people can't grasp that on a lot of roads around Waterford (such as the roundabout at Slieverue for New Ross or the Ballindud roundabout on the Tramore Road), I really don't know what you are going to do to educate drivers to open their eyes! There is lots of space despite it being a single carriageway for a large amount, and this space is still being used to 'double park' by couriers and people in their cars without a care in the world.

Same for pedestrians, there are three sets of pedestrian lights on the quays (excluding the one at the bridge) and yet people insist on ignoring these and continue to just jwalk.

highpath · 25-12-2014 3:40pm

Lads,

Don't know what anybody is whinging about. Haven't been in town in a while.. but drove down the quays today... No bother at all... and at peak lunchtime...Had a choice of parking spaces...didn't see any problem with traffic

Highpath

7upfree · 25-12-2014 6:17pm

highpath wrote: »

Lads,

Don't know what anybody is whinging about. Haven't been in town in a while.. but drove down the quays today... No bother at all... and at peak lunchtime...Had a choice of parking spaces...didn't see any problem with traffic

Highpath

Lol

wmpdd3 · 25-12-2014 10:03pm

highpath wrote: »

Lads,

Don't know what anybody is whinging about. Haven't been in town in a while.. but drove down the quays today... No bother at all... and at peak lunchtime...Had a choice of parking spaces...didn't see any problem with traffic

Highpath

Brilliant!

Had you a good choice of shops too?

highpath · 25-12-2014 11:02pm

That's the worrying bit.

Have to kind of agree that things aren't looking great for the city....Had some job trying to get something to eat. Eventually found a spot with a few auld codgers getting a feed. Joined in , but then went I went to pay the wans dishin up the grub wouldn't take any money.

Now I'm no Bill gates but I think you have to charge to stay in business...plus you should really open up your shops.

Highpath

The new trafic mess on the Quay.

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