yourtel - Landline Phone Service

Hi Hawksticks,

Thanks for the info - can't believe all the different knacks you discover in dealing with Yourtel?!
Never heard of the NDD or your Security Code before, will certainly try the security code and hope that is the end of it.

Involved ComReg, update them regularly but still no end and it's very hard seeing your 80 year old father swing between upset and anger anytime a bill lands...

Delighted to hear you came out best, well done!

Same problem here my mother managed to be signed up for a two year contract without even realising she had thought it was an Eircom survey. Have tried everything to get rid of them but no joy and Comreg can only add the details to the case against them.

Tried to ring Eircom about the code on the account but the person I spoke with had no idea what that was would love some more info on it especially since it seems to be the only way to get them to stop sending bills.

Hi Hurricane,

Just had all this today with Eircom & ComReg - was your father subject to lead up calls? Yourtel made numerous calls to my parents prior to taking over their landline. My undersrtanding of what happend is they purported to be Eircom and asked the parents to confirm their Eircom account number. Following that they again called and got my dad to say yes to a barrage of questions and this according to Yourtel constitutes a verbal agreement. Yourtel then contacted Eircom and Eircom signed my parents over no questions asked because, as I was informed by ComReg, Eircom must treat any request by another telecoms provider as legit?!

Have you asked Eircom to sign your father back to them again? I did this and my parents are unable to make outgoing calls until the account is ported back to Eircom which I'm told can take up to 48 hours.

Sorry your dad was caught too

Hi Hawsticks,

Thanks for the good wishes - called Eircom and they claimed never to have heard of the security code?!
They told me that signing back to Eircom would stop Yourtel seeing the call info and therefore stop any further bills issuing.

Nothing's happened since! Will keep you posted

This is the parent company, text in German, maybe any German speakers can have a
look for any clues.
primaholding.de/tochterunternehmen/

A report from Comreg Dec 2014 relating to National Directory Database abuses by Yourtel.
comreg.ie/_fileupload/publications/ComReg14137.pdf

Anyone translate these from German and give the general gist of the posts.

Go to ie.trustpilot.com/
and search for primacall.de

solocheck.ie/Irish-Company/Yourtel-Limited-528267

There is a Yourtel in the UK
yourtel.co.uk/

and also a Yourtel America Inc (sister comapny Terracom)

I cant say they have connections to "our" Yourtel as there is not information to connect the two. Yourtel America and Terracom have some stories relating to poor data protection practices and dodgy phone handsets but I repeat NO connection as far as I can see

independent.ie/business/technology/comreg-threatens-yourtel-with-court-action-over-alleged-spam-phone-calls-30901913.html

Jenna Sweet Shipyard wrote: »

Any chance you could just explain what they say in all those links?

Auld Jim Halpin wrote: »

NO

Sorry Jenna Sweet Shipyard, a bit burnt out after all that Googling!

Copy the last link and drop in to google translate and you will get the jist of it.
I would post the text only its translated and not that readable.
As I said earlier, a human translation would be better.

The post in the last link is dated Jun 2011.

slimjimmc wrote: »

@Auld Jim Halpin. Repeatedly posting links adds nothing to the conversation.

I am not intending to add to the conversation by providing links.

I am intending to address the problem of the thread.

The conversation is secondary when you have a pile of debt collectors letters for a service you were tricked into signing up for.

I am intending to add to the conversation by providing information that feeds the conversation.

I assume your comment comes from you, having read the information in the links, then deciding the information is irrelavant to the conversation?

I assume the people that have an interest in the issue will read and take on board the information to be found in the links.

Would you prefer if I quote and reference the information into the thread?

slimjimmc - TBH I think you are quite hard on Auld Jim Halpin.

Unless you've had first hand experience of Yourtel you can't appreciate how underhand the tactics employed are.
It is impossible to find sound advice from regulatory bodies and so boards.ie by its very nature is designed as a forum for users to exchange information on their chosen topics.

I don't see how the information contained in the post was disruptive to the discussion. The points raised would be very useful in approaching the problem that lead us to this thread.

Apologies MariaV for not getting back to you earlier, the censorship police got to me....
You and Aul Jim Halpin seemed to get a hard time too.........

Anyhow as to your question about Eircom and the NDD, yes Eircom make money off it, about €5000 a pop to sell it to third parties that can then cold-call you.
Now by default, they are catching elderly people, because they inevitably are in the house during the day because retired and that is when yourtel calls. And many people who are working no longer have landlines in the house.

First port of call for anyone here is to specify with Eircom that you want to be on the telemarketing opt out register for the NDD. I explained how to do this earlier - just search my posts.
In fact people's landline numbers should automatically be opted out of the NDD in my opinion - all mobile phone numbers are - start lobbying your local politicians if you want this change to happen. After all, who wants to be on a list that cold-callers can access?!

Now as to Comreg - they are both useless and have a vested interest in keeping Yourtel in business in Ireland, because guess, what, they get licence fees from them!
There is a Dail Committee of Public Accounts pdf from 17 Jan 2013 on the web in which there is a discussion on Comreg's accounts. In this Alex Chisholm, chairperson of Comreg presents to the Dail Committee. Alex states and I quote:

"Turning now to funding and operations, ComReg does not receive any funding from the State. We receive levy income from the electronic communications, postal and premium rate services industries we regulate. In addition, we receive licence fees and spectrum access fees from these firms/individuals using radio spectrum licenced under the Wireless Telegraphy Acts. Income in excess of our costs is treated as surplus and handed over to the Exchequer. Since the establishment of our organisation in 1997, we have already passed on over €820 million in surplus to the Exchequer.

ComReg has a staff of 107, comprised mainly of professionals such as engineers, accountants, legal staff, economists and analysts, who have the skills and qualifications needed to undertake economic regulation."

So hehehehehehe (apologies I am in fits of bitter laughter here), Comreg gets paid by Yourtel to have a licence for Carrier Pre-Select. All them peeples in Comreg gotta get paid you know......
So now all of you know why Comreg has not investigated them properly at all. In fact I pointed out to Comreg before about the wrong cooling off period (in August and Nov 2014) and they are only coming out with that judgement today. WTF!!

And the other galling thing is that the State makes money off the poor affected people on here and their parents with the royalties passed back. It is bad enough taxpayers bailing out private banks and developers, investors, it is something else for the state and Comreg to make money off us as well along with a so-called company in Berlin.........

No, this is much bigger than Comreg now in my opinion. Parish pump politics at its best needs to be displayed here - contact the Dept of Communications, Energy and Natural Resources about Yourtel. Contact your local politician and councillors etc.
The little people need to rise up and Yourtel needs to be shut down.

Tigamber - did you ask for the full recording of the voice recording where your mother unwittingly signed up? Refer to how to do this in an earlier post of mine.

As I have said previously regarding debt collection, these are only threats. The only person that has legal powers to demand you pay up is a sheriff. He is a court officer who will have a warrant to collect money and goods up to the value of the debt - after a court judgement. Anyone else does not have this power. A debt collector can turn up on your doorstep and demand you pay them money you owe to someone else, but you can tell them to go away and the debt collector would have no choice but to do so.

Yourtel have employed Crosskerrys of Merrion Square to issue demand letters with big red writing on them.

A judgement is required BEFORE any debt can be collected. The steps here are:
1) Demand Letter
2) Court action to secure judgement
3) Judgement Issued
4) POSSIBLY yourtel may engage sherriff to collect on foot of the judgement.

I don't believe that Yourtel have a snowballs chance in hell of getting a Court Judgement for the majority of people affected, so they issue threats (step 1) to get people to pay up.. Use my opinion if you wish, but I don't believe you will see a Step 2.
So not a penny more, cancel contract and get back to another tel company is what I would do in your boat. After all how many little people here in the same situation?


As Enda Kenny said as he cavorted around Davos with Cheryl Sandberg and other big business aficionados, he wanted to make Ireland the 'best little country to do business'.
Now, big business likes little, lax or no regulation and they sure as hell got it here with the telecommunications business and Comreg. The banks had it before and look where that got us....

Not to mind the Irish Data Commissioner's office either - another body that does not want to upset business. Refer to Max Schrems, founder of Europe v Facebook on privacy issues, where the Irish Data Commissioner rejected his case initially (Facebook Europe are headquartered in Ireland, so upsetting them would be a no-no), and he had to go to the High Court to appeal it.

Sorry for long-winded post.
Rise up little people and wage a jihad against Yourtel!

Hi Tigamber

If that was the way the call was structured, and you had already instructed Eircom not to authorise changing carrier, and it was written on the account with Eircom, and Eircom did not comply with this request, then Yourtel haven't a leg to stand on. Cancel the contract and go back to Eircom or someone else would be my action immediately. This can be hard to explain to an old person sometimes, as the letters Yourtel send are very threatening to people that have no experience of this type of behaviour.
Them obtaining your mother's Eircom account number does not bestow any rights to Yourtel whatsoever.

Of course, it is also a win-win for Eircom, because they will lock your mother into a new 12 month contract.

There is no way that would wash in court, the way Yourtel have behaved, or Eircom for that matter. And as I said, there will be no court action by Yourtel - court action costs a lot of money and they would have to prove their case in front of a judge. Paying their bills is only encouraging their behaviour. Send an e-mail to yourtel stating the facts and cancelling the account and that you are acting on behalf of your mother - back-up with a registered written letter also if you wish.

You will get no joy with Comreg - I have been dealing with Comreg for months. As I said above, Comreg get paid licence fees by Yourtel so they have a huge vested interest in keeping yourtel alive.
Yourtel will not respond to your e-mails either.

Get onto the Dept of Communications, Energy and Natural Resources on Monday about Yourtel and about your dissatisfaction with Comreg (and Eircom) and get onto your local politicians. Also get onto the National Consumer Agency. The Dept of Corporate Enforcement is another option.

I know all this is huge hassle, but these type of companies need to be closed down immediately.

@Tigamber, @ everyone else affected by Yourtel and Comreg fiasco

The jihad against Yourtel needs to be a multi-pronged assault, and you need to go back to the old reliable letter and postage stamp in my opinion, because e-mails can get lost in the ether or obstructed/apprehended by the worker drones and phone calls are only in the moment, unless they are recorded.
(For example, on my numerous calls to the ComReg drones about my Yourtel issues, the drone said and I quote that ‘it depends what the management of ‘ComReg’ decide’. ComReg management won’t do anything unless pushed because they are getting licence fees from Yourtel and there is also the possibility that they are not being told all that is going on from the drones.

Addressing the envelope to the relevant Queen Bee person and mark it ‘To Addressee only, Private & Confidential! will ensure a better hit rate and turn the heat on the Queen Bees.

So I would do the following

1. ComReg.
Address your letter to the current Chairperson of Comreg who is Kevin O’Brien as follows:

To Addressee only, Private & Confidential
Kevin O’Brien Chairperson
Commission for Communications Regulation,
Block DEF,
Abbey Court,
Irish Life Centre,
Lower Abbey Street,
Dublin 1

Link to Comreg Executive Quango here – just put www in front
comreg.ie/_fileupload/Executive%20Management%20Team%20Org%20Chart.pdf

Summarise your case – reference your ComReg case number if you have one, and ask why is it taking ComReg so long to investigate. Raise the fact that complaints against Yourtel have been going on for over a year now –reference this boards thread as evidence.

Now include the links that poster Aul Jim Halpin has given showing that this Yourtel/Primaholding parent company has been at this crack in other countries, incl Austria etc – just copy and paste his links from his posts into your letter. Tell the chairperson to use Google translate to translate it! Ask Comreg why they have granted a licence to Yourtel based on all this evidence and importantly ask him how much does Yourtel pay for the licence and is ComReg acting in the interests of the consumer little people or big business.

2. Who is Comreg answerable to? I believe it is the Minister for Communications, Energy and Natural Resources, a certain Alex White of the ruling elites, who ultimately should in theory be answerable to the little people in a correct functioning democracy.

Address another letter to him as follows:

To Addressee only, Private & Confidential
Minister Alex White
Department of Communications, Energy and Natural Resources,
29-31 Adelaide Road,
Dublin 2,
Ireland

In this letter, you need to lay out your grievance against Comreg and how they have allowed a sham company a licence for Carrier Pre-Select, and how your parents are in deep stress about bills that they did not willingly sign up to and are being threatened by debt collection agencies.
Include relevant info from letter 1 above.

You also need to ask how is Eircom allowed to make money by selling on people’s details to telemarketers as I have pointed out in my last post. Ask why are people not automatically opted out of telemarketers lists instead of having to physically opt out. Ask how is ComReg independent and acting in the best interests of consumers when they are funded by the likes of Yourtel.

3. The Comreg chairman needs to be dragged in front of the Dail Public Accounts Committee to explain their actions in this whole fiasco, so your third letter should be addressed to the Public Accounts Committee members.

Link here to the members – put www in front

oireachtas.ie/parliament/oireachtasbusiness/committees_list/public-accounts/members/

Shane Ross is on it, and he should be on the little people’s side. I would gladly pay top dollar to be in the gallery when the ComReg chairman has to explain his quango’s ineptitude and conflicted interest in this whole affair.

Again the PAC members need to be made aware of the ineptitude of ComReg, how this is going on more than a year, ComReg conflicted interest, how yourtel have been carrying on this craic in other countries etc, false Yourtel contracts, threatening letters, debt demand letters from Crosskerry’s (if you got one). Above all, there is a very important question about credit rating impact as well with these threatening letters.

ComReg need to be dragged over the coals by the PAC and the PAC also need to be asked how Eircom is allowed to make money by selling on people’s details to telemarketers as I have pointed out in my last post. Ask why are people not automatically opted out of telemarketers lists instead of having to physically opt out. Ask how is ComReg independent and acting in the best interests of consumers when they are funded by the likes of Yourtel.


Our ruling elites need to understand that they were democratically elected not to vote for bank guarantees, bank bailouts and foisting private banking debt onto the taxpayer, but that they were elected to represent the little people in a fair and equitable Republic, and that includes the case of the Little People versus Yourtel and rooting out corruption and vested interests.

4. The fourth estate, i.e. journalism. The reporting of Yourtel has been very poor by the mainstream media in my opinion, with no investigative work carried out at all.
Reference articles in the Examiner and the Independent.
The consumer champions of the national press need to be informed of this whole sorry saga.
I am sure they would be very interested in how ComReg have carried on, how Yourtel have been at this craic in other countries, how Eircom make money off selling people’s details to telemarketers.

Conor Pope of the Irish Times would be a good person to contact in confidence I guess as well as the journalists that have reported on the Yourtel case from the Examiner and the Independent so that it might open their eyes a little bit.

5. The other people is the local TD’s in your constituency – use Parish Pump politics at its best in the national interest – use a copy of letter two above.

Other options are the Office of Corporate Enforcement, National Consumer Agency, Garda Fraud Squad, Commissioner for Data Protection etc.


After that we should be all lettered out (posted letters will work best for items 1 & 2 above anyhow imo), and hopefully can sit back and watch the sh1t hit the fan in the case of ‘The Little People versus Yourtel’.

emeldc wrote: »

I would have thought the easiest way to eradicate them was simply not to pay them and switch back to Eircom. Is there any evidence of Yourtel taking any action against anyone for non payment. I doubt it.
If you or anyone else have elderly parents that have been 'caught' by this and can't cope, then you need to handle it for them. Seriously, what's the worst that can happen.
That's the way I see it anyway but I'll stand corrected if I'm missing something.

With respect that is wrong. They have issued letters saying that they have passed on the debt to a debt collection agency and also that they have informed the credit bureau of your debt default - to check your credit rating to see if they have actually acted on it, you need to pay a fee. They have passed the debts onto the debt collectors Crosskerry's of Merrion Square who have issued debt demand letters demanding payment within 10 days or threatening legal action if you haven't done so - PM me your email address if you want proof and I will readily send you on my example as well as the threatening letters from Yourtel.

Now if you are an older, vulnerable person that is frightening, and it can even ruin your Christmas - just read all the various posters on here whose elderly parents have been affected.

There is something intrinsically wrong with Eircom, a private company, being allowed to sell personal details like names, landline numbers and addresses to tele-marketers and cold-callers without people's permission, and people having to intentionally opt-out to stop that. There is also something intrinsically wrong with ComReg being funded by the likes of Yourtel through licence fees - that to me creates a huge conflict of interest and is not in the consumer's long-term interest.

As I said before, businesses big and small, and especially crooked businesses like lax or little regulation - reduces their costs for complying with regulation you see, and crooked businesses can act with impunity then. The political and ruling classes need to defend consumers against this financial type extortion as they ultimately oversee the regulators on our behalf. It is not all about 'the best little country to do business'........

@ 893 bet. Yes, they can affect your credit rating if they inform the credit bureau of it. And if you get a bad debt rating, even though it is a financial fraud, it can be nigh impossible to clear your name. Just try to get a mortgage, loans with a bad debt rating. And even if it is your parent's debt, if you apply for a loan, credit card etc using the same postal address, they are likely to refuse you because that address has a bad debt rating.

Yourtel are engaging in financial terrorism in the extreme imo. It is no different to raiders raiding old people. Dealing with it is more than just about helping your direct relatives, if we have any semblance of humanity.