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1916 Aresenal Found . Who were the Norgrove Women ????

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  • 21-08-2011 9:30am
    #1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,649 ✭✭✭✭


    Last week the Army removed old grenades from a house in Dubln's North Strand.

    Riddle of the 1916 Rising family and the deadly grenades hidden under floor which shut the DART

    SECURITY ALERT: Weapons hoard found in tiny two-bed terrace



    rising_952326t.jpg
    By Conor Feehan

    Saturday August 20 2011

    A DUBLIN house where grenades and artillery shells were found was once home to a family heavily involved in the 1916 Rising.
    The hoard of grenades and other ammunition, which sparked a security alert that shut down the DART for a period, had been hidden under the floor of the back kitchen in 15 Strandville Avenue, off North Strand.
    Members of the Army Bomb Disposal team were called to the house to remove the dangerous devices and make them safe, shutting down rail services while they worked in the property, located near one of the railway bridges.
    Research by the Herald has uncovered that a family of nine living in the tiny two-bed in 1916 was active in the Rising.
    DRILL
    Gas fitter Alfred Norgrove and his wife Maria, and seven children ranging in age from a baby to a 13-year-old, were living there at the time the 1911 census was taken.
    The Norgrove parents, and two daughters named Emily and Annie, who would have been 18 and 16 in 1916, are documented for their part in the Rising.
    Emily and Annie were members of the Irish Citizen Army positioned in City Hall, while Alfred was in the GPO and sent to City Hall on Easter Monday evening.
    Mrs Norgrove, meanwhile, was in Jacobs.
    Records show that after the Rising, Alfred Norgrove was removed from Richmond Barracks on May 8, 19016 and incarcerated in Wandsworth Detention Barracks, London, on May 9.
    Local worker Dudley Costello, of As New Crash Repairs, works under the railway bridge beside the house where the devices were found.
    He was able to grab this photograph, inset right, of the devices before they were destroyed. The builder who was digging out the old floor, Cezar Disca, described how he came across the ancient explosive devices, while using a pneumatic drill.
    "I was working in what would have been a back kitchen in the house, when the drill dropped through a cavity under the ground," he explained.
    "I thought I had broken into an old sewer pipe we didn't know about, so I dug down to see what it was and I saw something like a rusted canister, and when I took it out I saw a grenade on the bottom of it."
    SCHOOL
    Cezar had spent some time in the Romanian army after leaving school, and knew what it was he was dealing with.
    "I knew straight away, so I brought it out the back and phoned the foreman Pat Lawlor.
    "I told him we had a bit of a problem," he said.
    After Pat had seen the grenade he called the gardai.
    "Then they called in the bomb squad. When they looked first they thought it might take a half hour to sort out, but in the end it took a lot longer because the deeper they went, they kept finding more," said Pat.
    "In the end they were in a hole that was chest deep when they were in it.
    "The railway and everything had to be shut down. It was quite a sight."
    cfeehan@herald.ie
    - Conor Feehan

    That is quite an impressive record.

    We are used to seeing the Gifford Girls eulegised but who were the Norgroves and does anyone know what they did and what happened them ?


Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 1,145 ✭✭✭kabakuyu


    Link to 1911 census, they were very young at the time of the Rising.
    http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Dublin/North_Dock/Strandville_Place/22523/


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 715 ✭✭✭HellsAngel


    CDfm wrote: »
    Last week the Army removed old grenades from a house in Dubln's North Strand.




    That is quite an impressive record.

    We are used to seeing the Gifford Girls eulegised but who were the Norgroves and does anyone know what they did and what happened them ?
    Like the old saying, the pike is in the thatch. God knows how many old .303 Lee Enfeilds and Tommy guns etc are still lying hidden around the country. When I was a child their was part of the shell casing of an old grenade in a box with old junk under the stairs, probably a Mills bomb. I was told that it was found near the RUC barracks in Brookeborough where Sean South was killed in 1957. How true that was remains open to question, possibly my father winding me up :)


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,021 ✭✭✭johnny_doyle


    there's a few bits of info re the Norgroves on the web and in various genealogy systems but it's a bit sparce sadly. Hopefully more will come out as the centenary of the Rising looms.

    Alfred George Norgrove (1876-1937) married Ellen Maria Carter (1877-1934) in Monkstown in 1897 and went on to have 9 children. The last child was born in 1912 and Alfred was listed as a Gas Fitter as per the 1911 census. The last child's marriage record in 1935 had the family still at 15 Strandville Ave. Alfred died in Feb 1937 whilst installing a gas main in Ashtown. There was a rumour that it was gas poisoning but a post mortem revealed heart failure. 2 of the children were still living in Strandville Avenue in 1939/40 according to the electoral register-

    Alfred's father was a Royal Marine who served on several ships including HMS Vanguard and HMS Iron Duke. It's suggested that he was on HMS Vanguard when it and HMS Iron Duke collided in 1875

    http://www.infomar.ie/data/Shipwrecks/Box50/pdfs/HMS%20Vanguard_Final.pdf

    (My Gt Grandfather was a coastguard who also served on both Vanguard and Iron Duke and is believed to have been on Vanguard when it sunk)

    In 1920(?)Emily Norgrove married John Hanratty (also fought in the Rising and in later life helped restore Kilmainham Gaol) and had 2 children. Emily and John in Eccles St in 1939/40.

    In 1930(?) Annie Norgrove married William Grange and had 3 children. Living in Upper Rutland St in 1939/40.

    Annie's birth/baptism record can be seen online

    http://churchrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/details/cc21ff0365286

    Emily Hanratty was one of those interviewed for the RTE commemorations in 1966

    http://www.rte.ie/laweb/ll/ll_t06_schedule_h.html


    Annie, Emily and George are listed on the ICA memorial plaque in City Hall but Ellen isn't as far as I can tell.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1 Paddy The Dub


    Annie Grange nee Norgrove was me mate John's Granny. I let him know that people on the boards were interested in his ancestors and he thought it was great. I told him to get onto the army and claim back the decommissioned weapons and grenades, they'd be cool to have and a brilliant reminder of the the brave men and women who fought for our freedom.


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 16,244 Mod ✭✭✭✭Manic Moran


    For the record, an arsenal is a place where weapons are manufactured. A place where they are stored is an armoury or, in this case as they were hidden, a cache.

    NTM


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1 Nens182


    Annie Norgrove was my great Granny. People are looking up my family history, I feel pretty cool right now!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 20,649 ✭✭✭✭CDfm


    Nens182 wrote: »
    Annie Norgrove was my great Granny. People are looking up my family history, I feel pretty cool right now!

    I listed them in the Comely Maidens -interesting irishwomen thread too.

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056265715&page=4


  • Registered Users Posts: 1 mcilraith


    File1443.jpgFile1444.jpgFile1444.jpg


  • Registered Users Posts: 2 Margaret Ganley


    Hi - Annie was my 2nd cousin. Her grand father Alfred was my great uncle. His sister, my great grand mother, so I guess we is related!!!


  • Registered Users Posts: 2 Audg


    Just found this thread! Annie was my husbands grandmother and Emily his aunt who ended up living on Clonliffe Rd in Drumcondra. We are delighted we have such a great story to tell our children when they are older. There is a plaque with their names at city hall but v little info available from their time in 1916


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  • Registered Users Posts: 2 Margaret Ganley


    Just seen your post. I have a tree on ancestry.com with loads of photos and family info. Please feel free to contact me and I can link you too it. My email is: chapmargaret@gmail.com


  • Registered Users Posts: 2 Alfred56


    Hi Margaret

    I'm Alfred Norgrove; George Alfred Norgrove was my great-grandfather. His third daughter, Agnes (Alexandra) brought me up. She 'shopped' for her elder sister Emily, when the latter began to suffer from reduced mobility in the 1950s. As I was always with my great-aunt as a child on her shopping calls, I got to know the Hanratty family quite well. I also got to know Annie slightly as she was a frequent visitor to the household at Clonliffe Rd. I didn't know her well, as she and Aggie were never on good terms.

    I have a lot of information about the Norgrove family and the house at Strandville Avenue; however, I am still astonished by some of the facts I am learning about them on this and other blogs. I am interested in contacting any remaining Norgroves (I think there must be a great many,) plus anyone who knew them. Hope to speak to you soon.

    Regards
    Alfred


  • Registered Users Posts: 8 AHD


    Hi all. I'm related to the Grange family. I believe Annie married a relation of mine but as there is nobody else around I would love to hear from anyone who knows about William Grange, her husband. Thanks so much!

    Linda Jane


  • Registered Users Posts: 2 Alfred56


    Hi Linda
    The essential who I am is given in my earlier posts, but I am currently researching the history of the Norgrove family, including the related branches, Ganleys, Protheros, etc.

    I know someone who is (or was) in regular contact with the Granges, and could supply you with information about them, if you can let me know what your precise link with them is. He is not normally online, because he considers blogs like this a potential waste of time, but I can put you in touch with him, so long as I don't think I am wasting his time.

    Regards
    Alfred


  • Registered Users Posts: 2 Audg


    AHD wrote: »
    Hi all. I'm related to the Grange family. I believe Annie married a relation of mine but as there is nobody else around I would love to hear from anyone who knows about William Grange, her husband. Thanks so much!

    Linda Jane

    Hi Linda,
    My husband is john grange, his father William(Liam) is Annie's eldest son. He just turned 80 last week. My husband would have loads of info on them


  • Registered Users Posts: 1 grangep


    Annie Norgrove was my grandmother, her son Peter is my father and I would like to connect with the Norgroves/Granges to share information on our family history

    I have some and I believe a lot of family info was passed to Kilmainham Jail from Emily Hanrattys (nee Norgrove) house on Clonliffe raod after Kathleen Hanratty's death

    Peter


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,824 ✭✭✭Qualitymark


    A few results in the Bureau of Military History if you search for Norgrove

    http://www.bureauofmilitaryhistory.ie/bmhsearch/search.jsp

    Also a couple of results in military pension records

    http://mspcsearch.militaryarchives.ie/brief.aspx


  • Registered Users Posts: 3 charles p


    Hello everyone, My name is Charles Prothero. My Mother was Martha Prothero nee Norgrove and sister to Annie, Emily, Robert, Freddie, Aggie (as we called her as kids). Alas they have all passed on but, if I can be of any help let me know.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,794 ✭✭✭Jesus.


    Nens182 wrote: »
    Annie Norgrove was my great Granny. People are looking up my family history, I feel pretty cool right now!

    Lots of WC Protestants in the North Strand at that time. Are your people COI mate?


  • Registered Users Posts: 3 charles p


    In answer to your question, no we were brought up as catholics. Martha my mother, with her brother Robert changed from COI.
    As far as I know no other changes happened in the Family. I am now in my 70s and I have one brother, Thomas and one sister Mary. If you look up" Who were the Norgrove Girls" on Boards, you will find a lot of information concerning the Norgrove family. I hope this will be of help to you. Regards


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 12,078 ✭✭✭✭LordSutch


    Annie Grange nee Norgrove was me mate John's Granny. I let him know that people on the boards were interested in his ancestors and he thought it was great. I told him to get onto the army and claim back the decommissioned weapons and grenades, they'd be cool to have and a brilliant reminder of the the brave men and women who fought for our freedom.

    I presume a lot of amunitions came back from the Western Front? what with troops coming & going since the outbreak war in 1914.

    PS; They certainly didn't fight for my family's freedom, happy as they were in the Dublin of the time, foolhardy, deluded & reckless more that 'brave'.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,824 ✭✭✭Qualitymark


    Have you all joined the Relatives' Association? Great place to swap info.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3 charles p


    Hi Margaret,

    Some time ago I contacted you in regards to the Norgrove Family of which my Mother Martha belonged. I was unable to continue with the project. Can you possibly let me know how I can get any photographs for this period as I am able now to continue with my project.

    Regards,
    Charles Prothero


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