Ever been swayed by a thread??

gramlab wrote: »

I am an avid reader of this forum (and the A&A) and have to admit that am still on the fence reading the thoughts, arguements and reasoning of all sides.
Would consider myself more an athiest I suppose but on the other hand I seem to see too many things around me that I cannot just put down to mere evolutionary chance.

But I was wondering has anyone ever been swayed or queationed their faith in any way (even a little) due to discussions in this forum. I myself have often gotten lost in a thread and tipped one way or the other because of the points being made by contributers (except for hell and damnation scripture quoting - just doesn't do it for me). The sheer amount of debate that has gone on month after month and post after post - has anyone ever got someone around to their way of thinking by the end of a thread??

Should probably post this on the A&A forum as well but in my general experience it seems a lot easier/more common for someone to question their faith than it is for an "unbeliever to find it (especially for a confirmed athiest;))

I've not yet been swayed from my faith by atheists or brought closer to my faith by Christians in this forum. I believe that if God exists then He is the answer to all questions and is not afraid of them.

If a confirmed atheist has a valid question that he/she wants an answer to then it is they're right to ask such questions and it is they're right to not be swayed by what they would consider an inadequate answer.

What I find in here for the most part though (please do not assume I'm talking about everybody, there are a lot of good posters on both sides of the fence) are two equally wrong reasons for posting. They are mostly from Atheists who don't actually want answers to their own questions; they just want Christians to get on the defensive about their faith. And also from Christians who get on the defensive and cry hell and damnation on the questioners because they (the Christians) can’t answer their (the Atheist’s) questions. Both positions do not produce a good debate.

If atheists are so convinced that Christians are wrong then why bother them at all? Let us be wrong. We have a right to be wrong don't we? Plus all Christians that post here post from a personal viewpoint and are not posting from a strictly Christian viewpoint which causes a lot of confusion. Atheists then take their viewpoint as a Christian view point when its not and then proceed to bash Christianity with it.

Take Bishop Ussher’s dating of the earth for instance. Christians have been put on the defensive for a long time about this becuase he (Ussher) used the chronological record of the descendants of Adam to date the earth at just over 4000 years old. He was wrong to do this because there is nothing in the Bible that suggests that the earth is only 4000 years old. The source that states it took God six days to create the heavens and the earth is in the same book as the other source that says “a day with the Lord is as a thousand years”. It states that “In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth” and then the next verse says literally from the original Hebrew that “and the earth became a waste and a desolation”. There could be a vast gulf of time between these two verses but it doesn’t say how long. It doesn't say that the earth was "void and without form", it says it became a waste and a desolation. What happend to make it so? Don't know but it was before Adam was created. What we have in the bible is a re-creation as the former became desolate.

The point I’m trying to make with this illustration is don’t judge God’s Word through the ignorance of others. That’s what most atheists do here. They judge Christianity through other posters’ (who claim to be Christians) ignorance on the subject. To Christians: If God's Word is not your basis for argument then point out that it is your opinion that you are giving. To Atheists: If God's Word does not have the answers to your questions then it doesn't have the answers to your questions. Why not? You may ask. I haven' got a clue. God just didn't include them in His Word. Why? Don't know.

gramlab wrote: »

Would consider myself more an athiest I suppose but on the other hand I seem to see too many things around me that I cannot just put down to mere evolutionary chance.

I read Richard Dawkins' "The Ancestors Tale" last year. It took me 3 months to finish it. He begins with man today and goes backawards in evolutionary time meeting cousins in the animal kingdom right back to LUCA, (Last Universal Common Ancestor).

I never had a problem thinking we evolved from a common ancestor shared with all Apes - it seems intuitive. However, the further you go back in evolution time i.e fish, insects, plants the more counter intuitive it becomes. I accept but it takes a lot of logical reasoning because it's so counter intuitive. Reminds me of the Monty Hall problem.

The biggest thing that puts me off atheism is the arrogance and ignorance I have experienced from quite a lot of them. I hate that sort of Chris Hitchens style - full of sloppy logic, dumbed down arguments and insensitive biggotry.

As for changing my view, I'd have no problem doing that, if some objectiive evidence manifested. I accept the "power of prayer" but I put this down to its mediative properties not because of some blessed Deity.

Welcome back Tim
Guys, this thread is way off topic. If you would like to start your own thread be my guest, otherwise, back to the original OP
Asia

robindch wrote: »

You may find a few seagull atheists doing that, but few of us longer-serving posters are here to annoy christians. For my own part, I'm fascinated by religions and how they "work", but the kind of patient questioning that needs to take place is what some posters find offensive to the point of thinking it trolling. Which is unfortunate because that's not what it is.Because christians wield the kind of political power that produces large-scale and very visible effects in society. You may (or may not?) remember that contraception was first made legally available in Ireland in 1979 with a doctor's prescription, and for "bona fide family planning purposes" only. And it took until the early 90's for condoms to become generally available without a prescription. Both events being vigorously opposed by the catholic church. If religious belief had no side-effects, then religious beliefs religion wouldn't be much more interesting than knowing which end of an egg people crack open.Firstly, christians generally do not reciprocate that right. There are perhaps millions of christians (and those of other religions) trawling the world looking to convert people to their "right" beliefs. Engaging, in one area of ideas, in what I suppose one could reasonably term the cultural equivalent of genocide.

Secondly, yes, of course you have a right to be wrong. But christians should be more honest and not claim that their ideas are infallible, or that they are speaking or working on behalf of a deity who chooses to remain mysteriously invisible.I admire your honesty in admitting at least some imperfection in the text of the bible. It's not something we see here very often.

However, as above, religious texts are not the focus of most atheists ruminations. Rather it's what religious believers do with these religious texts that we find interesting, and that's as varied as the believers themselves, and quite possibly for a very good reason too.

I can understand that reasoning. A lot of evil has been done in the name of Christianity over the centuries as it has in other religions and ideologies but that does not mean that the ideologies or religions in question dictate these evils. Christianity started off with a few people reporting that Jesus the Christ rose from the dead and ascended into heaven with a promise to return. Oh how it has strayed from that purpose for the most part. The Church's function is to preach Jesus. Anything else is purely add-on traditions which Jesus says makes void the word of God. It is not the Church's role in this world to convert people and cultures to Christianity. Only God can do that, the Church is a people that belong to the Lord and is not restricted by denomination, its men and women of faith no matter what the denomination. There are many people in all denominations that have no faith in God. They think their works of the flesh will get them in. The purpose of the Church of Jesus is to proclaim the Gospel i.e Good News of Jesus. Which said good news is that He died and paid the penalty for all mankind's sins and is raised from the dead and is alive and promises to never leave you nor forsake you, and all that He wants is your trust in His word. Simple doctrine until it gets confused with worldly matters like war and issues that pertain to government and worldly entities. No wonder the world is turned off on Chrsitainity.