Formula 1 2015: Round 6 - Monaco GP

Terrontress · 25-05-2015 10:01am

ShaunieVW wrote: »

Places cannot be changed post race unless it's done through time pelantys accumulated in the race. A system where teams could swap drivers post race would be a stupid one.

You can swap drivers post quali by breaking the gearbox seal and getting an automatic five place penalty.

Myrddin · 25-05-2015 10:01am

Christ on a bike folks, seriously....highly passionate racing driver loses highly desirable race win through no fault of his own in disappointment shocker.

There's not a single hope, anyone on the spoilt child bandwagon wouldn't have been extremely pee'd off and every bit as visibly annoyed as he was yesterday, if in the same position. But no, lets judge nearly two hours of hard earned work going down the drain from the comfort of our armchairs. Christ lads.

sword1 · 25-05-2015 10:01am

A bit off topic, but it is obvious that Hamilton and rosberg have a far superior car, as vettel is the only one near their performance would it be fair to say he is probably the best driver?

walshb · 25-05-2015 10:06am

ShaunieVW wrote: »

Places cannot be changed post race unless it's done through time pelantys accumulated in the race. A system where teams could swap drivers post race would be a stupid one.

Thanks. I was almost certain that was the case. I just wanted to be sure.

Myrddin · 25-05-2015 10:06am

sword1 wrote: »

A bit off topic, but it is obvious that Hamilton and rosberg have a far superior car, as vettel is the only one near their performance would it be fair to say he is probably the best driver?

They do have the best car currently. The Ferrari has made a big jump in performance this season, but all things being equal, it's still not quite up there with the Merc yet. Vettel is a great driver, not sure if I'd call him the best though.

walshb · 25-05-2015 10:09am

I think Ted Kravitz was spot on. Maths aside and seconds aside there just didn't seem to be a real reason for pitting and taking the risk. Track position being key, as well as overtaking being very difficult. There was only 10/11 laps remaining at the pit time. They took a risk that they juts didn't at all need to take. Anyway, it was the only exciting/interesting part of the whole race.

antodeco · 25-05-2015 10:13am

walshb wrote: »

I think Ted Kravitz was spot on. Maths aside and seconds aside there just didn't seem to be a real reason for pitting and taking the risk. Track position being key, as well as overtaking being very difficult. There was only 10/11 laps remaining at the pit time. They took a risk that they juts didn't at all need to take. Anyway, it was the only exciting/interesting part of the whole race.

Ah, Verstappen was pretty impressive. Sneaking through the "back markers" and then his crash were pretty impressive

Andrew76 · 25-05-2015 11:03am

antodeco wrote: »

Ah, Verstappen was pretty impressive. Sneaking through the "back markers" and then his crash were pretty impressive

He's fast turning out to be the only exciting part of each race. Never driven around Monaco before and had a great weekend until the botched pitstop and then the crash, he's got some potential. Felt a bit sorry for him with the crash though, Grosjean seemed to break way earlier than normal. 5 place grid penalty for Canada too. Shame.

mickdw · 25-05-2015 11:09am

As someone said earlier, verstappen and the marshals were very lucky that his car didn't clear the crash barrier.
Slightly bigger kerb and he would have and there could have been multiple deaths.

Andrew76 · 25-05-2015 11:28am

mickdw wrote: »

As someone said earlier, verstappen and the marshals were very lucky that his car didn't clear the crash barrier.
Slightly bigger kerb and he would have and there could have been multiple deaths.

Aye, stupid place for marshals to be standing to be fair - in front of a kerb with F1 cars coming straight at you. I see they left Alonso's car parked up there too.

mickdw · 25-05-2015 11:32am

Andrew76 wrote: »

Aye, stupid place for marshals to be standing to be fair - in front of a kerb with F1 cars coming straight at you. I see they left Alonso's car parked up there too.

Yep. I though F1 safety was abit more advanced than that. Surely the Marshals could have been positioned out of line of high speed accidents. 30 or 40m up the hill would have been safer.

HighLine · 25-05-2015 11:39am

As I said yesterday, it was a crazy place to have the marshals stand on an elevated podium so that, height wise, they were above the barrier. Look at the following photo and see Verstappen's car begin to get some airtime over the kerb.... We all remember Webber's spectacular crash a few years ago. Those marshals are very lucky boys indeed.

https://twitter.com/NobleF1/status/602728630771388416

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r3iOan9YN_Q

Seannew1 · 25-05-2015 11:59am

Surely, Verstappen could be elevated up to Red Bull for next year??

Btw, heard one of Rosberg's post-race interviews, very very gracious and humble in victory, fair play to him, not sure if Mr. Hamilton would have been the same!

walshb · 25-05-2015 12:01pm

I'm rooting for Nico to win this title. Something that bit more jovial and likable about him. I am now a former Hamilton supporter!

mickdw · 25-05-2015 12:07pm

Massa talking about verstappen yet the last similar accident I can remember was massa and perez. He was all over perez, then at breaking point they crash.
These things happen.

antodeco · 25-05-2015 12:11pm

Max went to overtake but wasn’t expecting Grosjean to break as much as he did. The speed differential was massive. It was a little bit of inexperience and a little bit of bad luck. He managed to pull out, rather than go nose into exhaust.

In relation to the marshalls, thought the same myself. The little kerb could easily have lifted him up. I don’t know why they don’t have a full height fence there.

Charlie-Bravo · 25-05-2015 12:13pm

If Verstappen wasn't driving this year, the Monaco GP would have been very, very dull.

weisses · 25-05-2015 12:21pm

I still don't get it why he gets a 5 places grid penalty and 2 points on his license.

There was nowhere he could go when Grosjean created that dangerous situation

Unless the objective is to stay at least 5 car lenghts behind the person in front of you to avoid any possible collision

If a driver wants to give you a "break test" then that at least should happen on a spot where there is a change to avoid a possible collision.

Stupid action from Grosjean

Korat · 25-05-2015 12:45pm

Obviously you don't want to encourage reckless driving but it's not good to discourage drivers from being adventurous especially on a dull track like Monte Carlo. It looked to me like the Frenchman took his foot off a bit early but the experts at the track made their decision. Pity for Verstappen but I hope it doesn't knock him.

challengemaster · 25-05-2015 1:19pm

walshb wrote: »

Rules question: Red Bull had an agreement that Kyvat would get the place back if Daniel failed to pass Hamilton. If Daniel crossed the line first can that place be given back, or is that not possible?

No, but I can't imagine Ricciardo would put himself on such bad terms with his team/boss/teammate over 1 place on the grid.

You could argue with the fact Ricciardo was on better tyres and catching very rapidly that he might have passed Kyvat anyway by the end of the race, but team orders allowed him to have a crack at getting a podium which would be better for a struggling team - at the end of the day a 4/5 finish for RB doesn't matter to them which car is in which position.

antodeco wrote: »

Ah, Verstappen was pretty impressive. Sneaking through the "back markers" and then his crash were pretty impressive

Verstappen clearly will be one to watch in the next few years. At the minute it seems he just doesn't have the experience in the F1 car to match what's going on in his head.

mickdw · 25-05-2015 1:49pm

challengemaster wrote: »

No, but I can't imagine Ricciardo would put himself on such bad terms with his team/boss/teammate over 1 place on the grid.

You could argue with the fact Ricciardo was on better tyres and catching very rapidly that he might have passed Kyvat anyway by the end of the race, but team orders allowed him to have a crack at getting a podium which would be better for a struggling team - at the end of the day a 4/5 finish for RB doesn't matter to them which car is in which position.

Verstappen clearly will be one to watch in the next few years. At the minute it seems he just doesn't have the experience in the F1 car to match what's going on in his head.

Plenty experienced f1 drivers have been caught out in similar fashion. Think schumacher for example.

Tea 1000 · 25-05-2015 5:26pm

LIGHTNING wrote: »

Unless his results don't improve and he gets thrown off the Red Bull train to make room for the next big driver...

They seem to waste more than they nurture to be honest!! I like Sainz too, but one of the pair of them will get chucked out soon, and if that chucking doesn't correspond with an opening in another team then they'll be forgotten.

Going Strong · 25-05-2015 5:46pm

LIGHTNING wrote: »

Unless his results don't improve and he gets thrown off the Red Bull train to make room for the next big driver...

According to Martin Brundle, the other teams are very impressed by Verstappen so he may not have to worry too much about his future employment prospects.

jasonb · 25-05-2015 6:09pm

Verstappen seems to me to have real potential, for someone so young he's quick and intelligent and not afraid to overtake. While some much more experienced Drivers are saying they can't get within 2 seconds of the Driver in front or they'll ruin their tyres, he's constantly a few feet from the other Driver's gearbox.

Yes, it will occasionally cost him, like yesterday, but he's also made up spots with some great overtaking so far this season. I only hope the crash won't shake him too much, he sounded a little breathless (and rightly so) over the radio after it. Once he lost his wheel he was just a passenger and he hit that barrier hard. Like others have said, I was surprised at the Marshalls (and McLaren) sitting up there, above the barriers!

As someone above posted, the race was dull enough apart from Verstappen. Not only because of his crash and that bringing out the Safety Car, but also because he was going for it in the first place! Sneaking past someone he was racing (was it Bottas?) by following Vettel, who was lapping that Driver, showed he's willing to try things and take a risk.

Thought Red Bull had a good race too and their agreement to let Riccardo go for it, and then give the spot back to Kyvat if it didn't work was also good thinking, a little outside the box and not just happy to go around in circles like most of the other teams...

J.

AMKC · 26-05-2015 10:35am

antodeco wrote: »

Max went to overtake but wasn’t expecting Grosjean to break as much as he did. The speed differential was massive. It was a little bit of inexperience and a little bit of bad luck. He managed to pull out, rather than go nose into exhaust.

In relation to the marshalls, thought the same myself. The little kerb could easily have lifted him up. I don’t know why they don’t have a full height fence there.

Exactly. The crash was not Grosjean,s fault as some people on here seem to think. Maybe Grosjeans tires were worn and he was just being cautious so he could get home without a crash. The crash was all Max's fault he got too close and hit grosjean. He could have ruined Grosjeans race too. Yes he has made some of the races more exciting but he is also just a boy a spoiled one at that that needs to learn the hard way that sometimes you have to be thinking ahead. It might put some manners on him now after having his first real crash in F1.

Charlie-Bravo · 26-05-2015 11:39am

If it was the M50 and someone braked suddenly and the guy behind wasn't expecting it , then maybe yes the guy behind is at fault as he is not leaving sufficient space for such an eventuality. This is racing, it's going to be close and if Grosjean changes his braking behaviour then he's got to know he'll be creamed if covering the corner while braking early. The more I think about this, the more I feel the stewards haven't looked into the incident in as much detail as is needed. The penalty is harsh - I think it is just to teach him a lesson and to try and tame a beast without looking at the facts fully!

recyclebin · 26-05-2015 12:25pm

If Grosjean broke early it would have shown up on the telemetry and Toro Rosso would definitely appeal the penalty. I think Verstappen just got it wrong. He tried to jink out from behind Grosjean to try outbrake him but he left it too late.

Thidp · 26-05-2015 1:48pm

I don't think Grosjean would be stupid enough to break early while in the racing line... I guess Verstappen tried to find the space do overtake at St. Devote and that's it.

That being said, I'm sure he will learn the lesson, especially with all this talking about "this is what you get when a 17 year-old drives a F1"... and I really hope that this doesn't stop him for trying other overtakes. After all, that's what we like to see.

Slutmonkey57b · 26-05-2015 5:26pm

I absolutely think Grosjean would be that stupid, based on his career to date.

Jordan 199 · 26-05-2015 5:35pm

Slutmonkey57b wrote: »

I absolutely think Grosjean would be that stupid, based on his career to date.

That's harsh.

AMKC · 26-05-2015 5:35pm

recyclebin wrote: »

If Grosjean broke early it would have shown up on the telemetry and Toro Rosso would definitely appeal the penalty. I think Verstappen just got it wrong. He tried to jink out from behind Grosjean to try outbrake him but he left it too late.

I agree. Don,t think Grosjeon got it wrong. It was all Verstappens own fault. He got it wrong. Lack of experience.

Slutmonkey57b · 26-05-2015 7:00pm

Jordan 191 wrote: »

That's harsh.

Not as harsh as some of the frankly insane crashes he's caused in gp2 and f1.

Short memory syndrome for him to give out about verstappen, it's not that long since he almost killed someone and was banned for a race, and many thought that was too lenient.

v3ttel · 26-05-2015 10:33pm

Just back from Monaco. What an amazing place. The general admission section on race day is an experience and a half.

Vettels "I'm happy! I'm happy!" and two thumbs up to the camera at the end was absolutely brilliant.

I thought Lewis came across as an absolute dick after the race. Fair enough, he should be rightly pissed off at the team, but parking up at Portier for no reason, crawling around at a snails pace then to hold up the entire ceremony, before purposely crashing into the 3rd place marker, walking off from the interviews on the podium before being brought back and then to throw his team under the bus in the press conference. What a child.

Mike Litoris · 27-05-2015 12:16am

v3ttel wrote: »

Just back from Monaco. What an amazing place. The general admission section on race day is an experience and a half.

It's awesome, isn't it! Did you get a good spot on the hill?

I just read there were no grid girls, but grid guys. Vettels comment was pretty funny ""Why didn't we have any grid girls today?" Vettel joked. "What was that? You get there and park behind George or Dave. What's the point?"

v3ttel · 27-05-2015 8:13pm

Mike Litoris wrote: »

It's awesome, isn't it! Did you get a good spot on the hill?

Unbelievable experience. We arrived at 7am, so pretty much had the best view that we possibly could of the track and a decent view of the screen at Rascasse. Next time we'll bring some furniture and a trowel. Watching people constantly battle gravity helped to pass the time until the race. People who were sitting for hours suddenly sliding down randomly, falling over, etc.

The only bad thing is that it's an absolute battle to get to the toilet (between getting down off the hill without killing yourself or others, battling through all the people standing on the walkways, getting back up the hill, etc). A few more toilets so you could have a couple of relaxing beers in the sun (not that I'm a drinker really) would really make the day.

collie0708 · 27-05-2015 8:38pm

To the guys that went in so jealous defiantly going next year. Any tips on where to do and things to do in Monaco without spending thousands ???

Tea 1000 · 28-05-2015 9:44am

collie0708 wrote: »

To the guys that went in so jealous defiantly going next year. Any tips on where to do and things to do in Monaco without spending thousands ???

I'd recommend not bothering paying big bucks for the race, it's a procession and you can't really tell what's happening anyway as the commentary is hard to hear. Instead pay the money to stay in Monaco if possible and buy tickets for the practice sessions. You get the full experience of a Grandstand for only €60! They're at full speed anyway. Buy the tickets on the day, wait till half an hour after the start and the prices start plummeting.
Having been to a Grandstand for race day, I wouldn't spend that kind of moeny again on Monaco. The experience of the town itself after qualifying and that night is what makes it.

flazio · 28-05-2015 12:43pm

Theoretical question, unless Toto answered this already. Say Hamilton got ahead of Vettel, either by getting out of the pits faster or by overtaking him. Would Mercedes tell Rosberg to give the place back or tell Hamilton to race it out?

Mike Litoris · 28-05-2015 1:07pm

flazio wrote: »

Theoretical question, unless Toto answered this already. Say Hamilton got ahead of Vettel, either by getting out of the pits faster or by overtaking him. Would Mercedes tell Rosberg to give the place back or tell Hamilton to race it out?

Thats interesting. You'd hope they'd have told them to race it out. I reckon if that happened and Rosberg won, Hamilton would have drove straight into the sea instead of parking it.

Dany 678 · 28-05-2015 1:24pm

Verstappen did mess from this race in Monaco...and not just that Grosjean overtake before 90 degrees turn, but whole race, using and following Vettel's blue flags to overtake drivers like Botas while they giving a way for Vettel etc. He pretty much tried to trick them all, till' Grosjean get radio message to cut him off. After race Verstappen still have said something stupid like that he didn't have idea that Grosjean will brake early before 90 degree turn...

I believe that Mercedes-Lewis pitting was just honest mistake and miscalculation, also mixed with mess of Virtual safety car and the Real safety car and GPS system is not available in Monaco as well.

I think even if Hamilton overtake Vettel, Hamilton will have to race for the first place with Rosberg.

challengemaster · 30-05-2015 1:24am

Didn't see it mentioned on thread, but Verstappen's been given a 5 spot grid penalty for Canada for causing the crash. Telemetry showed Grosjean braked 5m later than the previous lap.

clear thinking · 30-05-2015 11:38pm

1. Dignity in despair

Lewis Hamilton has not only mastered the twisty street of Monaco – where he has not won since 2008 – but also his own temper. There was a maturity about his dignified reaction to his utter despair following his failure to win on Sunday we have not seen in the past. This is partly to do with his age, for he was 30 in January, but it also has something to do with a new serenity since he took his second world title last year. You still would not bet against him doing something daft in the future. He can still be impulsive but he is much more grown-up these days.

This is from the Guardian - 5 things we learned, awesome in its inaccuracy. He has not mastered his temper, his reaction was petulant and crashing the '3' was most certainly not serene. The hacks must be get holiday home access or something.

mickdw · 31-05-2015 12:32am

clear thinking wrote: »

1. Dignity in despair

Lewis Hamilton has not only mastered the twisty street of Monaco – where he has not won since 2008 – but also his own temper. There was a maturity about his dignified reaction to his utter despair following his failure to win on Sunday we have not seen in the past. This is partly to do with his age, for he was 30 in January, but it also has something to do with a new serenity since he took his second world title last year. You still would not bet against him doing something daft in the future. He can still be impulsive but he is much more grown-up these days.

This is from the Guardian - 5 things we learned, awesome in its inaccuracy. He has not mastered his temper, his reaction was petulant and crashing the '3' was most certainly not serene. The hacks must be get holiday home access or something.

The brit media actually tried to put forward the notion that his behaviour was impeccable after the race when it couldn't be further from the truth.
You go to Monaco and drive the event. It is incredibly poor manners to leave the royals and presentation party waiting because you are having a sulk. He really let his team, his country and himself down imo.
The walking away straight after the podium was terrible too. The fia communications guy had to haul him back.
He doesn't realise he is being a d1ck bit in sure in later years he will see how silly he was being.
Don't get me wrong, if I lost a casual kart race in the manner he lost that, I would be pissed so I can only imagine how angry he was but he is world champion, he has to have abit of class and just act properly while in public view.

Myrddin · 31-05-2015 10:33am

His behaviour was certainly not impeccable, though given the circumstances - combined with his fiery temperament, I was expecting the podium & interviews to be a lot, lot worse than they were.

The media are playing the expected cards, & in particular, I thought Sky F1's approach was very sore, & plenty of loaded questions were asked of Toto & Lauda by Ted. The above article is very poor too, as there were clear signs Lewis was burning up inside.

Tea 1000 · 02-06-2015 9:50am

mickdw wrote: »

The brit media actually tried to put forward the notion that his behaviour was impeccable after the race when it couldn't be further from the truth.
You go to Monaco and drive the event. It is incredibly poor manners to leave the royals and presentation party waiting because you are having a sulk. He really let his team, his country and himself down imo.
The walking away straight after the podium was terrible too. The fia communications guy had to haul him back.
He doesn't realise he is being a d1ck bit in sure in later years he will see how silly he was being.
Don't get me wrong, if I lost a casual kart race in the manner he lost that, I would be pissed so I can only imagine how angry he was but he is world champion, he has to have abit of class and just act properly while in public view.

Myrddin wrote: »

His behaviour was certainly not impeccable, though given the circumstances - combined with his fiery temperament, I was expecting the podium & interviews to be a lot, lot worse than they were.

The media are playing the expected cards, & in particular, I thought Sky F1's approach was very sore, & plenty of loaded questions were asked of Toto & Lauda by Ted. The above article is very poor too, as there were clear signs Lewis was burning up inside.

With all the money in the sport, and all the money the drivers are getting, you'd think they'd find a way to vent their anger in front of the media without hanging anyone.
Nothing wrong with saying something in an angry raised voice along the lines of "I'm so bloody angry and upset right now. I don't know why things worked the way they did, but I'm angry and disappointed now. Tomorrow will be time enough to analyse when we've all calmed down".
Rather than sulking, walking away, parking for half an hour, then trudging up saying something boring like "I'm not sure what happened, but go team, go me, go everyone" in a dull anesthetised tone.

challengemaster · 02-06-2015 5:48pm

Tea 1000 wrote: »

With all the money in the sport, and all the money the drivers are getting, you'd think they'd find a way to vent their anger in front of the media without hanging anyone.
Nothing wrong with saying something in an angry raised voice along the lines of "I'm so bloody angry and upset right now. I don't know why things worked the way they did, but I'm angry and disappointed now. Tomorrow will be time enough to analyse when we've all calmed down".
Rather than sulking, walking away, parking for half an hour, then trudging up saying something boring like "I'm not sure what happened, but go team, go me, go everyone" in a dull anesthetised tone.

a la Webber?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MLNMDrQ_56U

HighLine · 05-06-2015 8:20pm

Well this radio release certainly changes things! Makes Lewis's post-race actions seems even worse now! The team told him to stay out and Lewis was the one to suggest otherwise. I'm fairly shocked to be honest.... again shows just what an a$$hole he is in letting the team take full blame. Blame on both sides in my opinion.

http://www.formula1.com/content/fom-website/en/video/2015/6/Moving_on_from_Monaco_for_Mercedes.html

_rebelkid · 05-06-2015 8:27pm

HighLine wrote: »

Well this radio release certainly changes things! Makes Lewis's post-race actions seems even worse now! The team told him to stay out and Lewis was the one to suggest otherwise. I'm fairly shocked to be honest.... again shows just what an a$$hole he is in letting the team take full blame. Blame on both sides in my opinion.

http://www.formula1.com/content/fom-website/en/video/2015/6/Moving_on_from_Monaco_for_Mercedes.html

Toto said it straight after the race to Ted, but everyone ignored it. "Lewis said his tyres were gone." That was what forced the stop, not Mercedes f*cking up.

HighLine · 05-06-2015 8:31pm

_rebelkid wrote: »

Toto said it straight after the race to Ted, but everyone ignored it. "Lewis said his tyres were gone." That was what forced the stop, not Mercedes f*cking up.

I just can't believe he let the team take all the stick when in fact it was his call to come in after the team corrected their initial call and told him to stay out.

_rebelkid · 05-06-2015 8:35pm

HighLine wrote: »

I just can't believe he let the team take all the stick when in fact it was his call to come in after the team corrected their initial call and told him to stay out.

I can. I expected it. Look at how the media swarmed around it after; Sky wanted the teams blood, Twitter wanted the same, and Hamilton was the innocent victim. He did everything perfectly, and was robbed "once again" by Mercedes. Exactly the narrative he craves. I mean, he has "Still I Rise" tattooed on his back for f*ck sake...

Formula 1 2015: Round 6 - Monaco GP

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