Constituency Commission Report 2012

REPSOC1916 · 21-06-2012 10:19pm #1

The Constituency Commission Report published today has reduced the number of TDs by 8 and has made a number of radical changes to a vast number of constituencies.
The report will be voted on later this year.

http://www.constituency-commission.ie/docs/report2012.pdf

Dublin

A new five seat constituency, Dublin Bay North, has been created from the merger of Dublin North-Central and Dublin North-East. Dublin North has gained Portmarnock from Dublin North-East and the south west part of Swords which was controversially assigned to Dublin West for the 2011 election; and has been renamed Dublin Fingal, a five seater.
Dublin South-East has gained the remaining part of Terenure in Dublin South Central and has been renamed Dublin Bay South. Dublin South Central is now a four seater while Dublin Bay South will be a four seater.
Dublin South has been abolished. Dun Laoghaire gains Foxrock from the former constituency while Dublin South West gains Rathfarnham and Knocklon. The remainder of the constituency has been renamed Dublin Rathdown. Dublin Rathdown has three seats, Dun Laoghaire four seats, while Dublin South-West is now a five seat constituency.
Dublin Mid West remains unchanged.
Dublin West loses south west Swords to Dublin Fingal but gains part of the Cabra LEA from Dublin Central. There is no change in seats. Dublin North-West gains Glasnevin and part of Drumcondra from Dublin Central. Dublin North-West remains a three seat constituency while Dublin Central loses a seat. It also becomes the smallest constituency by geographical size.

Rest of Leinster

There is no change to Meath East, Meath West, Wicklow, Carlow-Kilkenny, Longford-Westmeath, Louth and Wexford.
Laois-Offaly has been split into two three seat constituencies Laois and Offaly. Laois gains Monasterevin from Kildare South, while Offaly gains part of the former Tipperary North constituency.
There are minor changes to the Kildare North constituency with a small area being transferred to Kildare South. Kildare South remains a three seat constituency while Kildare North retains four seats.

Munster

There are no changes to Clare, Cork East and Cork South-West.
Four three seaters; Kerry North-West Limerick, Kerry South, Tipperary North and Tipperary South and Tipperary have been merged into two five seaters: Kerry and Tipperary. While Kerry is coterminous with the county (with West Limerick returned to Limerick), Tipperary loses it's northern tip centred around Las Borrisokane as well as two DEDs south of the Borough of Clonmel, in county Waterford, which has been transferred to Waterford. Waterford remains a four seat constituency and it conterminous with its traditional county boundaries.
Limerick regains territory from the former Kerry North-West Limerick constituency but loses an area to the east of the Limerick City constituency. Both constituencies remain a three seater and a four seater.
Cork North Central loses rural territory in it's north east to Cork North-West but gains Bishopstown from Cork South-Central. Cork South Central loses a seat to become a four seater.

Connaught Ulster

Galway West combines with an area around the town of Ballinarobe in of South Mayo. It remains a five seater with the rest of Mayo losing a seat.
Roscommon and some of East Galway will make up Roscommon-Galway with three seats.
Leitrim is re-uninted . The new four seat constituency of Sligo-Leitrim contains the two counties as well as a rather large chunk of West Cavan and south Donegal centred around Ballyshannon.
Cavan Monaghan is now a four seater while the merged constituency of Donegal has five seats.

mikemac1 · 21-06-2012 10:37pm

Was expecting Tipp North and South to merge to 5 seater
And was expecting to lose the south Offaly part, up around Obama country

But they've taken a knife to the county

Such a redrawing has not been attempted since 1898!

Alan Kelly just lost a lot of his support. As did Noel Coonan a bit
No bother for Michael Lowry at all

Don't realy know the reps down south

SMASH THE UNIONS · 21-06-2012 10:40pm

I would have liked to have seen a greater reduction in the number of TDs to bring us into line with similarly sized nations, but this is a step in right direction. The Israeli pariliament has 120 representatives for a population 7.8 million. Comapare this to our 166 TDs for a population of 4.5 million. We are way over-represented and the tax payer is of course left to carry the burden.

However, according to our constitution, there must be one TD elected for every 30,000 people. This is why the Constituency Commission couldn't reduce the number of TDs by more than 8. We need a referendum to amend our constitution - one TD for every 50,000 sounds fair. Pity it wasn't carried out at the same time as the Fiscal Stability Treaty referendum but I imagine our dear leaders are trying to delay such a vote for as long as possible. Turkeys don't vote for Christmas.

Anyway, nice to see political reform gradually taking place.

REPSOC1916 · 21-06-2012 10:43pm

Thought I wouldn't have enough space for this so I've posted it separately.

Dublin Central is one of the oddest looking constituencies I’ve ever seen. The new boundaries, which transferred the two most affluent areas in a very working class constituency out, means FG have effectively lost a seat. Mary Lou MacDonald lost some of her area around the Navan road here but FF can kiss any chance they had of regaining a seat good bye. I’d wonder if Mary Fitzpatrick will stand in Dublin West. Mary Lou will still hold her seat while I can easily see Donohoe standing in Dublin North West. I'm not too sure about Labour here.

Labour's Eric Byrne will have to retire with Terenue and Kimmage gone in DSC. Catherine Byrne could also be at risk. Although Inchicore is still in the constituency she was largely elected on the transfer of her two running mates which were based in that more salubrious part of the constituency. Labour have the numbers to hold one even if Connaghan retires. Both O'Snodaigh and Collins will be re-elected easily.

RBB will not be able to hold on in Dun Laoghaire. Given the CC, its a three seater and Foxrock would not be friendly to him. Gilmore will be re-elected while Peter Mathews, if he's still a member of FG by 2016, will move here and run with Mary Mitchel "Woman driver" O'Connor. Shatter will stay in Dublin Rathdown - his base is in Balinteer - while Alex White is pretty much snookered. Cait Keane of FG will take the fifth seat in Dublin South-West. The changes also will more than likely prevent FF and the Greens from targeting a seat in any of these constituencies.

Dublin Bay North is very hard to predict. It an extremely diverse constituency and FG, Lab, FF and SF will be targeting seats here. At a guess Bruton (FG) and Broughan (Lab) will hold and the final three seats will be a fight between Averil Power (FF), either Larry O'Toole or Michael Mac Donnacha of SF, Aodhain O'Riordain of Labour and FG2.

REPSOC1916 · 21-06-2012 10:52pm

SMASH THE UNIONS wrote: »

I would have liked to have seen a greater reduction in the number of TDs to bring us into line with similarly sized nations, but this is a step in right direction. The Israeli pariliament has 120 representatives for a population 7.8 million. Comapare this to our 166 TDs for a population of 4.5 million. We are way over-represented and the tax payer is of course left to carry the burden.

However, according to our constitution, there must be one TD elected for every 30,000 people. This is why the Constituency Commission couldn't reduce the number of TDs by more than 8. We need a referendum to amend our constitution - one TD for every 50,000 sounds fair. Pity it wasn't carried out at the same time as the Fiscal Stability Treaty referendum but I imagine our dear leaders are trying to delay such a vote for as long as possible. Turkeys don't vote for Christmas.

Anyway, nice to see political reform gradually taking place.

I'm happy with the reduction but tbh a real change would be actually TDs doing a bit less constituency work and actually acting like members of a legislature and not effectively overpaid social workers.

mikemac1 wrote: »

Was expecting Tipp North and South to merge to 5 seater
And was expecting to lose the south Offaly part, up around Obama country

But they've taken a knife to the county

Such a redrawing has not been attempted since 1898!

Alan Kelly just lost a lot of his support. As did Noel Coonan a bit
No bother for Michael Lowry at all

Don't realy know the reps down south

The new Tipp constituency makes it difficult for Kelly but also for Seamus Morris of SF - a lot of the SF vote is based around Neanagh. Expect to see from both of them "I'm the only chance for a Neanagh TD" when canvassing. In the south FF will target McGrath or he might decide to return to the fold (if FF would have them). The ULA TD Healy might find it difficult as well.

mikemac1 · 21-06-2012 10:59pm

Was looking at submissions, anyone could put their views forward of course
And the huge amounts of people and groups from Terenure in Dublin reminded me of a story a few months ago

RESIDENTS OF A suburb in south Dublin have asked that their neighbourhood be moved into a different electoral constituency as they believe local TDs do not represent their middle class concerns.

The Association of Residents of Terenure (ART), representing around 300 households in the northwest of Terenure village, has written to the Constituency Commission – the body currently reviewing electoral boundaries in Ireland – to ask that their neighbourhood be moved from Dublin South Central to Dublin South East.

“The current constituency boundary has left us at a great disadvantage because the make-up of the public representatives who have been elected to our constituency do not, in general, seem to feel they represent the ‘middle class’ suburb of Terenure, and instead draw their support from, and give their attention to, the western part of the constituency,”

http://www.thejournal.ie/residents-claim-tds-do-not-represent-middle-class-in-dublin-suburb-325310-Jan2012/

Poor souls, they were ignored
The north-west of Terenure remains with the rest of us poor people in Ballyfermot, Inchicore and other areas.

May not have a "middle class feel"
But decent working people who don't write off large areas of the city

Shower of snobs :mad:

Sponge Bob · 22-06-2012 12:54am

mikemac1 wrote: »

May not have a "middle class feel"
But decent working people who don't write off large areas of the city

Shower of snobs :mad:

I thought it ws fair enough as a submission and I thought it was fair enough it didn't work.

You won't hear me complaining about all the Mayo people fecked into Galway West.

K-9 · 22-06-2012 1:15am

Sponge Bob wrote: »

I thought it ws fair enough as a submission and I thought it was fair enough it didn't work.

You won't hear me complaining about all the Mayo people fecked into Galway West.

They chopped off part of Donegal to add to Sligo/Leitrim and also add part of Cavan, odd constituency! Can't see that or indeed Donegal as a 5 seater favouring Independents.

Sponge Bob · 22-06-2012 8:26am

K-9 wrote: »

They chopped off part of Donegal to add to Sligo/Leitrim and also add part of Cavan, odd constituency! Can't see that or indeed Donegal as a 5 seater favouring Independents.

Donegal, uniquely, elected a TD to 'save' the peoples 'right' to free BBC and UTV. This was in a 3 seater where 25%+ of the vote was needed to get elected. Only 16%+ is required to get elected in a 5 seater so lets say I'm not too sure k9 !!!

dulpit · 22-06-2012 10:53am

Loss of seat in Cork South Central is interesting, wonder how that will play out. Currently there's 2 FF, 2 FG and 1 Lab.

Initially you would think the 2nd FF seat might be in danger, although Jerry Buttimer (FG) is losing part of his support base in Bishopstown, so maybe it'll be him?

Fromthetrees · 22-06-2012 12:07pm

Cork South-Central looks quite odd to me, you have Bishopstown which is one area split between 2 separate constituencies. They're breaking up the natural divide of the city that the River Lee provides.

You've also got Ballincollig in Cork South-West which puts it in the same constituency as Goleen which is over a 100 km away when Ballincollig is essentially apart of Cork City (I'm pretty sure nothing has changed here I just thought it would look better).

To me it seems that Ballincollig, Bishopstown and Douglas should all be in the Cork South-Central constituency whereas they are split between 3 separate districts leaving just Douglas in what I perceive to be the correct electoral area.

It's like they wanted to get Cork South-Central to lose a TD when it doesn't actually seem necessary. That's not my constituency just to say if people think I'm being biased.

K-9 · 22-06-2012 12:15pm

Sponge Bob wrote: »

Donegal, uniquely, elected a TD to 'save' the peoples 'right' to free BBC and UTV. This was in a 3 seater where 25%+ of the vote was needed to get elected. Only 16%+ is required to get elected in a 5 seater so lets say I'm not too sure k9 !!!

I wasn't a fan of that campaign but it wasn't about free UTV or BBC!

Fromthetrees · 22-06-2012 12:22pm

SMASH THE UNIONS wrote: »

I would have liked to have seen a greater reduction in the number of TDs to bring us into line with similarly sized nations, but this is a step in right direction. The Israeli pariliament has 120 representatives for a population 7.8 million. Comapare this to our 166 TDs for a population of 4.5 million. We are way over-represented and the tax payer is of course left to carry the burden.

However, according to our constitution, there must be one TD elected for every 30,000 people. This is why the Constituency Commission couldn't reduce the number of TDs by more than 8. We need a referendum to amend our constitution - one TD for every 50,000 sounds fair. Pity it wasn't carried out at the same time as the Fiscal Stability Treaty referendum but I imagine our dear leaders are trying to delay such a vote for as long as possible. Turkeys don't vote for Christmas.

Anyway, nice to see political reform gradually taking place.

Without getting into it but there could be so many political, social and religious reasons why Israel has that amount of seats.

For example Denmark has more nationally elected members of it's house than we do and our population is much closer to there's than ours is with Israel. Just to say.

Sponge Bob · 22-06-2012 12:47pm

K-9 wrote: »

I wasn't a fan of that campaign but it wasn't about free UTV or BBC!

Oh Right...it was a protest at Pat the Cope going to Europe was it ???

SMASH THE UNIONS · 22-06-2012 1:03pm

Fromthetrees wrote: »

Without getting into it but there could be so many political, social and religious reasons why Israel has that amount of seats.

For example Denmark has more nationally elected members of it's house than we do and our population is much closer to there's than ours is with Israel. Just to say.

Oh God, I knew I shouldn't have used Israel as an example. Should have known the IPSC brigade would latch onto it and attempt to derail another thread. It's getting to the point where we can't even meantion the "I" word on this site anymore.

Let's take a look at New Zealand instead. It has a similar population to Ireland (4.4 million) and their national parilaiment houses 120 representatives. Far lower than our 166. Plus NZ doesn't have an upper parliamentary chamber (no Senate) which begs the question, why does Ireland feel the need to have a Seanad? Many other small counties like Portugal, Norway, Greece, Sweden, and Finland don't have bicameral legislatures either, so Ireland needs to take a long hard look at itself and ask why are we funding so many bloody redundant civil servants? Gravy train galore.

dulpit · 22-06-2012 2:17pm

So to have a second chamber we must be a large country?

What puzzles me about Ireland is that we always have to look at what other countries are doing to ensure we match them. Perhaps we have it right and they don't??

I like the representation we have, I like the fact we have an upper house (just fix how people get elected there pls). Just saying.

SMASH THE UNIONS · 22-06-2012 2:40pm

dulpit wrote: »

So to have a second chamber we must be a large country?

What puzzles me about Ireland is that we always have to look at what other countries are doing to ensure we match them. Perhaps we have it right and they don't??

I like the representation we have, I like the fact we have an upper house (just fix how people get elected there pls). Just saying.

Would you be happy to pay extra tax to fund your upper house of parliament? There are 60 senators in the Seanad on top of our 166 TDs in the Dáil. The fact that the Senators are appointed rather than elected by the people lends itself to cronyism and nepotism.

Please tell, what benefits does Ireland get, that the Scandinaivan countries don't, from having an upper house and more TDs?

REPSOC1916 · 22-06-2012 4:52pm

Sponge Bob wrote: »

Donegal, uniquely, elected a TD to 'save' the peoples 'right' to free BBC and UTV. This was in a 3 seater where 25%+ of the vote was needed to get elected. Only 16%+ is required to get elected in a 5 seater so lets say I'm not too sure k9 !!!

It prompted a joke at the time that Donegal North East had voted for a "Brits out" candidate, Harry Blaney (brother of Independent FF TD the then late Neil Blaney) while Donegal South West had voted for a "Brits In" candidate, Tom Gildea.

Fromthetrees · 22-06-2012 5:12pm

SMASH THE UNIONS wrote: »

Oh God, I knew I shouldn't have used Israel as an example. Should have known the IPSC brigade would latch onto it and attempt to derail another thread. It's getting to the point where we can't even meantion the "I" word on this site anymore.

Let's take a look at New Zealand instead. It has a similar population to Ireland (4.4 million) and their national parilaiment houses 120 representatives. Far lower than our 166. Plus NZ doesn't have an upper parliamentary chamber (no Senate) which begs the question, why does Ireland feel the need to have a Seanad? Many other small counties like Portugal, Norway, Greece, Sweden, and Finland don't have bicameral legislatures either, so Ireland needs to take a long hard look at itself and ask why are we funding so many bloody redundant civil servants? Gravy train galore.

Why did you use Israel as an example when it is such a unique democratic country so? I think Denmark is a far better example for instance, it's part of north western Europe, it's closer in population size, culture, tradition ect., it just makes more sense. My point is we are hardly way out of kilter with the way democracy is done. We're going to have 150 odd TDs for a population of 4.5 million which is growing fast, highest birthrate in Europe and all that, and we still have far fewer TDs than Denmark has, there's nothing extreme happening here.

The Seanad is a joke in it's current form, it need serious reform or for it to be abolished. I haven't said anything about it though so why are you bringing it up?

I'm not sure what to say about the 'ISPC brigade' and 'derailing' the thread, I'm not even sure if I've ever posted on an Israeli thread in over 800 posts, my opinion on the issue wouldn't be particularly extreme on either side anyway. Israel is just a strange example to give when we are comparing our democracy with how the rest of the world conduct their business and I had to say it.

Also, if you want, you could work out the population of each country that's been mentioned and work out the number of seats each place has as a percentage of their respective population and the numbers aren't all over the place, again, just to say.

Constituency Commission Report 2012

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