Can you make enough money in an amateur band to life on in ireland?

Corn Flake · 28-12-2011 10:27pm #1

Just some amateur band in ireland

boneitis · 28-12-2011 10:34pm

Corn Flake wrote: »

Just some amateur band in ireland

Probably not. Maybe briefly, but... Not long.

And it also depends on your desired standard of living.

honru · 28-12-2011 10:50pm

If you're in an amateur band and you're making enough money against the costs of being in a band (such as regularly replacable equipment like strings and drumsticks, transport, possible studio rent, etc.) I think you'd be doing amazing.

Corn Flake · 28-12-2011 11:06pm

Off to America so... 'Cause compared to Ireland, America's a breeze to get signed with a record label...

Toobz · 28-12-2011 11:12pm

Corn Flake wrote: »

Off to America so... 'Cause compared to Ireland, America's a breeze to get signed with a record label...

Thats funny, theres probably a couple of hundred thousand, talented, never to be signed amateur bands in America buddy.

Furious-Red · 28-12-2011 11:22pm

Corn Flake wrote: »

Off to America so... 'Cause compared to Ireland, America's a breeze to get signed with a record label...

Yea its not as easy as heading to America and getting signed straight away , plus most bands dont really want to get signed since it can work out better by DIY , just look for a publishing deal or something and work at it . If you keep working at it , it will eventually work out for ye

boneitis · 28-12-2011 11:42pm

Corn Flake wrote: »

Off to America so... 'Cause compared to Ireland, America's a breeze to get signed with a record label...

I can 100% vouch that this is complete BS.

abouttobebanned · 28-12-2011 11:44pm

Answer to the OPs question is yes. IF...

1. You're very good.
2. Versatile.
3. Willing to work every night of the week.
3. Relatively inexpensive.
5. Don't pay tax.

boneitis · 28-12-2011 11:49pm

abouttobebanned wrote: »

Answer to the OPs question is yes. IF...

1. You're very good.
2. Versatile.
3. Willing to work every night of the week.
3. Relatively inexpensive.
5. Don't pay tax.

This is why it's unsustainable.

abouttobebanned · 28-12-2011 11:52pm

Exactly.

Corn Flake · 29-12-2011 12:45am

Hmm... Someone has a cork stuck up there ass... Never said that all was going to work out mate it's just, even though there may be thousands of bands in the us, unsigned, it's still an easier place to score a record deal than this place.

Corn Flake · 29-12-2011 12:49am

Sorry, my comment was aimed at Boneitis, thank you all for the comments everyone

boneitis · 29-12-2011 1:13am

Corn Flake wrote: »

Hmm... Someone has a cork stuck up there ass... Never said that all was going to work out mate it's just, even though there may be thousands of bands in the us, unsigned, it's still an easier place to score a record deal than this place.

It's certainly not easy in the US, or anywhere to get a decent deal.

That being said, even compared to Ireland it's not "a breeze" to get a deal in the states. I spent a long time there around massively talented people, people that would (and in a few cases did) clean up in London, and even those folks never found getting a decent deal "a breeze".

So...

Drumstuck · 29-12-2011 2:45am

It may not be a breeze to get a deal in America but at least people will actually listen to bands playing original music. If you get yourself a fanbase from your first couple of gigs, they will make an effort to travel to see you on later gigs. There's an appreciation for music there that's sadly lacking here!
Over here 99.9% of people just don't care about songs they've never heard before - especially from rock bands.

Jordo141 · 29-12-2011 3:47am

If you made enough to sustain yourselves wouldn't you be professionals, not amateurs.

(Sorry, nitpicking

)

Corn Flake · 29-12-2011 1:49pm

@Drumstuck Exactly...

boneitis · 29-12-2011 2:27pm

Drumstuck wrote: »

It may not be a breeze to get a deal in America but at least people will actually listen to bands playing original music. If you get yourself a fanbase from your first couple of gigs, they will make an effort to travel to see you on later gigs. There's an appreciation for music there that's sadly lacking here!
Over here 99.9% of people just don't care about songs they've never heard before - especially from rock bands.

Not trying to be negative here, but I spent 10 years in a major US market and saw a pretty similar attitude there to here... if you're good you'll have fans; if you're not you'll play to a lot of empty rooms...

I have had no problem getting Irish people to drive hours to see projects, and at the same time I have seen bands here who pay to be on the radio and can't get 10 people at a Fri gig in a good venue.

It's about the music and the look and the vibe, much more than location... bear in mind that America is MASSIVE and only has a few places with PROPER scenes. I have toured the US multiple times... I'm not just making this up like.

For getting signed, London is the easiest place I've seen. Lots of very mediocre acts gets signed there after almost no gigs and very little experience... also much easier to get management and media exposure there...

LA, like London is pretty easy in some respects, but you better be willing to have no opinion about your own music/look/recordings...

NYC is good, but only if you "know" people... it's simple then.

After that it's a lot tougher... Boston/Chicago/Dallas/Miami/Seattle all have scenes, but all are pretty closed to complete outsiders, if I'm honest.

Smaller than that, good luck...

raindog.promo · 29-12-2011 4:46pm

If you're going to travel around Ireland, I'd imagine expanding into the UK is as easy and probably more profitable to do so.

roast · 30-12-2011 5:05pm

Consider the proportions. There's as much chance of getting signed in the US as there is in Ireland. For every one band in Ireland, there's at least 50 times that in the US. There's a larger number of bands signed over there, but compared to the number of bands that aren't signed, the ratio is the same as here really.

BigBadDom · 30-12-2011 8:53pm

NO matter where you go, it is hard work 'making it'. Having been involved with artists who were signed in the past, I can tell ye all that getting signed is only the beginning of the hard work. You go from being a free musician, to having constant demands made upon you. It is not the answer to your prayers, trust me. Even the guys I know who were signed and successful, they are not making music as good as they were when they were young and free. Mixing with corporations like major record companies compromises you. Couple that with the fact that you are, more than likely, young when you get signed, one's confidence can be easily shaken. Simply put, you have to love what you are doing as that is the only thing that lasts over the course of a career. If your only reason for playing is to 'make it', then give up now as you don't have what it takes.

DublinWriter · 30-12-2011 8:56pm

Corn Flake wrote: »

Off to America so... 'Cause compared to Ireland, America's a breeze to get signed with a record label...

Wasn't it Frank Zappa who called record label contracts the worst form of bank loan ever?

boneitis · 30-12-2011 9:35pm

BigBadDom wrote: »

NO matter where you go, it is hard work 'making it'. Having been involved with artists who were signed in the past, I can tell ye all that getting signed is only the beginning of the hard work. You go from being a free musician, to having constant demands made upon you. It is not the answer to your prayers, trust me. Even the guys I know who were signed and successful, they are not making music as good as they were when they were young and free. Mixing with corporations like major record companies compromises you. Couple that with the fact that you are, more than likely, young when you get signed, one's confidence can be easily shaken. Simply put, you have to love what you are doing as that is the only thing that lasts over the course of a career. If your only reason for playing is to 'make it', then give up now as you don't have what it takes.

None of this is wrong, but it's also not "absolute" truth.

As soon as you collaborate with anyone on anything, you compromise. Relationships are, in fact, compromise, at their core.

A label and an artist's relationship is, like any other relationship, based on compromise.

To pretend that playing music for fun protects you from compromise or even in some way protects the integrity of music flies in the face of the simple truth we all experience in every collaboration we enter into: working with others means not always getting our way.

So.

Ask yourself, if I have to compromise, and if I'm willing to value my own creation enough to work hard at it, what am I trying to gain. After all, you're compromising and working hard already, so what are you trying to get
In return?

There's a few other harsh realities that need to be accepted. Money can be made without labels, to some extent, but proper living wage cannot be made, if you're a nobody, with out engaging with some sort of business interests. It can't.

Publishing contract? That's a business deal? Sync? Business deal. The list goes on...

So... If you're willing to engage in a business deal, for money, so that you can do music professionally, why would you refuse a GOOD record deal? And guess what, there's plenty of good deals out there, still.

So, why would you do that?

A label is bank, but it's also a corporation that has people who, if you're lucky, know how to make money for themselves and you, eventually.

People like to talk ****e about labels, but it's childish nonsense.

BigBadDom · 31-12-2011 3:00pm

boneitis wrote: »

None of this is wrong, but it's also not "absolute" truth.

As soon as you collaborate with anyone on anything, you compromise. Relationships are, in fact, compromise, at their core.

A label and an artist's relationship is, like any other relationship, based on compromise.

To pretend that playing music for fun protects you from compromise or even in some way protects the integrity of music flies in the face of the simple truth we all experience in every collaboration we enter into: working with others means not always getting our way.

So.

Ask yourself, if I have to compromise, and if I'm willing to value my own creation enough to work hard at it, what am I trying to gain. After all, you're compromising and working hard already, so what are you trying to get
In return?

There's a few other harsh realities that need to be accepted. Money can be made without labels, to some extent, but proper living wage cannot be made, if you're a nobody, with out engaging with some sort of business interests. It can't.

Publishing contract? That's a business deal? Sync? Business deal. The list goes on...

So... If you're willing to engage in a business deal, for money, so that you can do music professionally, why would you refuse a GOOD record deal? And guess what, there's plenty of good deals out there, still.

So, why would you do that?

A label is bank, but it's also a corporation that has people who, if you're lucky, know how to make money for themselves and you, eventually.

People like to talk ****e about labels, but it's childish nonsense.[/QUOT

With respect, that view comes from experience. It doesn't colour my entire world view however, it's a studied opinion you could say and one I don't need to be corrected on, as I speak of my own experience, I mention that to save you some typing trying to convince me otherwise....cause you won't LOL. since that first experience, I have always worked for the artist, which allows me a measure of distance from the corporate decision makers. To paraphrase Charles Bukowski '...it's not that I don't like major record labels, it's just that I seem to feel a lot better when they're not around'! Peace and a happy new year.

boneitis · 31-12-2011 4:10pm

BigBadDom wrote: »

boneitis wrote: »

None of this is wrong, but it's also not "absolute" truth.

As soon as you collaborate with anyone on anything, you compromise. Relationships are, in fact, compromise, at their core.

A label and an artist's relationship is, like any other relationship, based on compromise.

To pretend that playing music for fun protects you from compromise or even in some way protects the integrity of music flies in the face of the simple truth we all experience in every collaboration we enter into: working with others means not always getting our way.

So.

Ask yourself, if I have to compromise, and if I'm willing to value my own creation enough to work hard at it, what am I trying to gain. After all, you're compromising and working hard already, so what are you trying to get
In return?

There's a few other harsh realities that need to be accepted. Money can be made without labels, to some extent, but proper living wage cannot be made, if you're a nobody, with out engaging with some sort of business interests. It can't.

Publishing contract? That's a business deal? Sync? Business deal. The list goes on...

So... If you're willing to engage in a business deal, for money, so that you can do music professionally, why would you refuse a GOOD record deal? And guess what, there's plenty of good deals out there, still.

So, why would you do that?

A label is bank, but it's also a corporation that has people who, if you're lucky, know how to make money for themselves and you, eventually.

People like to talk ****e about labels, but it's childish nonsense.

With respect, that view comes from experience. It doesn't colour my entire world view however, it's a studied opinion you could say and one I don't need to be corrected on, as I speak of my own experience, I mention that to save you some typing trying to convince me otherwise....cause you won't LOL. since that first experience, I have always worked for the artist, which allows me a measure of distance from the corporate decision makers. To paraphrase Charles Bukowski '...it's not that I don't like major record labels, it's just that I seem to feel a lot better when they're not around'! Peace and a happy new year.

The reality is simple:

To make money these days you need to do one of a few things:

1. have a string of massive hits
2. sell lots of tickets to gigs, in multiple countries, 6-8 months of the year, min.
3. make a lot of money off of sync, perpetually

In order to do No. 1, you need a label.

In order to do No. 2 you need a label. Here's why: Ticket sales for mainstream "popular" artists - and that's indie/pop/heavy stuff/etc - is connected to radio play... the internet still doesn't compete with mainstream media exposure, by a long shot. Media exposure = spending money... sad, but true. the only entities that have the resources to sustain the cost of media exposure are labels.

3. It happens, but it's one of the most compromising positions to be in... and sync pays a LOT more if the tracks in question are commercially released.

The only REAL path to the money you need to create a career is a label.

Once you're a known brand you can turn these rules on their head, but... look at the facts... Radiohead went back to a label, the internet can get people deals, but it can't make them real money, radio/media exposure cost more money than individuals can afford to spend.

It's all fair and good to hate banksters, etc., and to lump labels all together as crooks, but that's naive and simplistic.

Put it another way: 99.9999999999999999999999% of the music that's consumed in this world is on a label. At least 75% of that is generated by major labels. In other words, most people get 3 out of 4 artists they like from a major. On average.

To dismiss majors you dismiss 75% of released music. That's a very narrow view IMO.

BigBadDom · 31-12-2011 4:16pm

boneitis wrote: »

The reality is simple:

To make money these days you need to do one of a few things:

1. have a string of massive hits
2. sell lots of tickets to gigs, in multiple countries, 6-8 months of the year, min.
3. make a lot of money off of sync, perpetually

In order to do No. 1, you need a label.

In order to do No. 2 you need a label. Here's why: Ticket sales for mainstream "popular" artists - and that's indie/pop/heavy stuff/etc - is connected to radio play... the internet still doesn't compete with mainstream media exposure, by a long shot. Media exposure = spending money... sad, but true. the only entities that have the resources to sustain the cost of media exposure are labels.

3. It happens, but it's one of the most compromising positions to be in... and sync pays a LOT more if the tracks in question are commercially released.

The only REAL path to the money you need to create a career is a label.

Once you're a known brand you can turn these rules on their head, but... look at the facts... Radiohead went back to a label, the internet can get people deals, but it can't make them real money, radio/media exposure cost more money than individuals can afford to spend.

It's all fair and good to hate banksters, etc., and to lump labels all together as crooks, but that's naive and simplistic.

Put it another way: 99.9999999999999999999999% of the music that's consumed in this world is on a label. At least 75% of that is generated by major labels. In other words, most people get 3 out of 4 artists they like from a major. On average.

To dismiss majors you dismiss 75% of released music. That's a very narrow view IMO.

Lick arse! LOL. I'm jesting with you. I respect you have an opinion, even if I don't agree with it. I'd suggest that a balance of opinions like we have would make an ideal management team, call it a sort of managemental 'good cop/bad cop'.
Happy new year to you.n

boneitis · 31-12-2011 4:23pm

BigBadDom wrote: »

Lick arse! LOL. I'm jesting with you. I respect you have an opinion, even if I don't agree with it. I'd suggest that a balance of opinions like we have would make an ideal management team, call it a sort of managemental 'good cop/bad cop'.
Happy new year to you.n

bwahahah goodcop/badcop management... has a certain ring to it... better google to be sure... looks like we're in the clear...

goodcopbadcopmanagment.com
gcbcmgmt.com

hahah

cloptrop · 01-01-2012 3:17pm

if you want to live on playing music , get your semi acoustic and amp out , go from local pub to local pub and arrange nights where you play , every saturday etc , itll take awhile but you will build up enough work if your good making bout 150 to 200 a night and keeping costs down
guitar amp and microphone only , you can make a living , free booze uncomfortable living but a living

Can you make enough money in an amateur band to life on in ireland?

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