Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie

Ben Affleck vs. Sam Harris & Bill Maher on Real Time

Options
1…121314151618»

Comments

  • Options
    #512
    marienbad
    Registered Users Posts: 9,463 ✭✭✭marienbad


    Playboy wrote: »
    Maybe I'm missing something here but as far as I can tell the vast majority of the Islamic world are anti fundamentalism and terrorism. Most of them say it plenty too and say it pubically. Unfortunately it doesn't fit the narrative in the media so doesn't really get much attention. The average Muslim can do as much about fundamentalism and terrorism as you and me. Let us not forget that the victims of extremism are overwhelmingly Muslim so it's a little condescending to tell them that they need to do something about it. What would you have the average Muslim do?

    I think we are seeing a different narrative, remember I am talking about these specific values .

    'like freedom of speech,freedom to practice any religion you want without fear of violence,freedom to leave a religion, equality for women, equality for minorities including homosexuals''

    The fact of the matter is if you check the the research , Pew etc , you will find the disagreement with those values is fairly mainstream and Islam seems to get a free pass compared to say Catholicism . For example if you take the coming referendum here on Equal Marriage , the pro side have virtually succeeded in branding anyone opposing it as homophobic.

    For me the water shed was the Salman Rushdie affair - here you had a foreign religious leader issues a death treat on the citizen of another country for writing a book in a language that (as Far as i know ) was in a language he did'nt speak !

    And approval for was much greater than against and on a world wide basis.

    I am on the move now so I will come back to this later


  • Options
    #513
    Michael OBrien
    Registered Users Posts: 533 ✭✭✭Michael OBrien


    Playboy wrote: »
    Maybe I'm missing something here but as far as I can tell the vast majority of the Islamic world are anti fundamentalism and terrorism.
    ARE they the vast majority when it comes to opposing fundamentalism? What does fundamentalism mean in regard to Islam. What stance (or set of stances) does a muslim take that keeps him from being a fundamentalist.
    I have no doubt many muslims don't support terrorism, and in keeping with the topic of this thread, no one said otherwise. Sam specifically is referring to several levels in Islamic adherance and action, from severe to mild.
    However fundamentalism is a lot trickier to define with a religion that states any move to change the central doctrine is one of the greatest sins imaginable.
    So if a muslim puts secularism above his islamic faith, then he has, according to the quran, committed a grave sin. This might indeed be ignored by a secular muslim, but once again, reading the quran makes this quite plain.
    Basically the more liberal a muslim gets on many topics, the less he follows his religion. We are talking about a 6th century religious text that they are proud has NEVER changed (in their view anyway).

    That is why the pew polls are quite worrying. There are large percentages that hold very fundamentalist views, and they don't see that as bad naturally.

    There is a difference between apologetics and genuine reformers. IF a muslim blames everything on everything else except his religion then that is dishonest. There is no way reading the texts and history of islam that you find a peaceful religion. It is a deceitful and violent one at times as well. This needs to be recognises for reform to occur. Otherwise its just a shell of self deception that is being build around a rotten core.

    One way to reform Islam genuinely is to reverse the scholarly doctrine of later revelation. Simply reverse this (not so simple theologically of course) and I would be much much happier. It would make the apologetics more honest as well as what they say in regard to tolerance would actually be valid instead of bull.


  • Options
    #514
    jank
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 13,018 ✭✭✭✭jank






    Almost a continuation of this story. Maher gives his view on the latest attacks by Islamic nut jobs and calls for Liberals to do more to stand up to them.

    The American Spectator has its view.
    http://spectator.org/articles/61416/bill-maher-was-right
    So let’s go back to Bill Maher in October of last year. As written here — as discussed all over the place — there were pyrotechnics when actor Ben Affleck appeared on Maher’s show with writer Sam Harris. The discussion turned to Islam and the fireworks began, as immortalized on YouTube.

    Memorably, Maher said this, which launched the furies. Islam is “the only religion that acts like the mafia, that will f--king kill you if you say the wrong thing, draw the wrong picture or write the wrong book.” Affleck protested, saying that to even suggest this was “gross” and "racist.”

    Today, ten French journalists are dead because they ran insulting cartoons of Mohammed. Ironically, Charlie Hebdo is in its own way a print version of Bill Maher’s style of comedy. The paper has famously insulted every religion on the planet, notably mocking the pope. Maher, an atheist, has made this kind of thing his stock in trade. He can by turns be crude, insulting, and satirical in search of humor. One doesn’t have to agree with him, or for that matter even like him, to understand that he is but one example of free speech at work in a society that cherishes free speech as a right central to human freedom.

    So the world has witnessed yet again a murderous terrorist attack, this time on a French media outlet whose stock in trade is satire. I generally disagree with Bill Maher on most subjects — but most certainly not on this one. He was right to say what he said back there in October. And sadly, the events in Paris yesterday are exactly proof — if in fact any more proof was needed — that Maher was 100 percent right in his assessment.


Advertisement