Returning to Ireland with UK car

GalwayGirl33 · 16-02-2015 3:55pm #1

Hi there,
I am returning home for work in two weeks after living in the UK for nearly 6 years. I am driving home in my Ford Fiesta Zetec, which I bought in 2010. It is an 07 car. I get the ferry on Sunday 28th Feb. According to my insurance company, I am good to drive in Ireland for a few weeks, and I am due to pay my road tax on the 1st March too.
So, should I use those couple of weeks that I m covered by my insurance to organise getting my car registered here? Obviously if I am stopped for whatever reason I can say I am home temporarily with the possibility of staying. I still have an address, bank accounts and all the relevant links to the UK, including a UK drivers license after I had to change my Irish one over, so until I get set up in my job, and open a bank account etc, should I wait a couple of weeks before officially exporting my vehicle from the UK?
I think the DVAL here refund unused car tax.

Any advice is welcome, I just dont want to be voiding my insurance or anything, but I think I am ok to drive for my first couple of weeks at home on my UK details.

draiochtanois · 16-02-2015 3:57pm

This post has been deleted.

GalwayGirl33 · 16-02-2015 4:01pm

Hi, I did, and to be honest, I didn't get a clear enough answer. The guy on the phone said something about being able to drive abroad for 90 days, then when I said I wasnt sure if I would be returning, and I would be home for a few weeks initially he said that was fine, and said when I get back to the UK, I have to then inform them if I return to Ireland again. Basically I pay my insurance by DD, and when I register my car at home I will have to insure it there too. I just dont want to pay for insurance twice! I will of course check with them if they will cancel the policy if my car is exported. I am probably making it more complicated than it needs to be!

draiochtanois · 16-02-2015 4:09pm

This post has been deleted.

CiniO · 16-02-2015 4:32pm

draiochtanois wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

It's surely already in writing on her policy.
Also it's only discussion in relation to full cover.
Third party cover is working automatically no matter how long OP stays in Ireland with her car.

AndyBoBandy · 16-02-2015 4:35pm

GalwayGirl33 wrote: »

Hi, I did, and to be honest, I didn't get a clear enough answer. The guy on the phone said something about being able to drive abroad for 90 days

I've often wondered, would a monthly trip up the North be the same as going back 'home' thus ensuring you are never affected by that 90 day rule?

CiniO · 16-02-2015 4:41pm

Andybobandy wrote: »

I've often wondered, would a monthly trip up the North be the same as going back 'home' thus ensuring you are never affected by that 90 day rule?

Depends on the wording in the policy.
Many Irish policies f.e. state that you can only spend 30 (or 60 or 90) days abroad during one period of policy (one year).
If that was the case, going up north woulnd't help.
On the other hand, as I said above it's only about extra cover on the policy.
Obligatory third party cover which is legally required to be driving on public roads, is not affected by any time limits abroad.

GalwayGirl33 · 16-02-2015 4:46pm

Thanks folks,
I guess I am just wondering how soon I become 'resident' at home again, I am literally starting up again, I closed my bank account when BOI started scalping for even having one, and I have no proof of address there yet... So I guess until I get an account, and I get paid, I am still in limbo a bit! I can't even get an insurance quote though until I have registered my car back home and I can't seem to find out how I do that online, as I am exempt from VRT as I have had the car for 5 years over here, at least thats what I have read?

You are all so helpful, thanks!

CiniO · 16-02-2015 4:54pm

GalwayGirl33 wrote: »

Thanks folks,
I guess I am just wondering how soon I become 'resident' at home again, I am literally starting up again, I closed my bank account when BOI started scalping for even having one, and I have no proof of address there yet... So I guess until I get an account, and I get paid, I am still in limbo a bit! I can't even get an insurance quote though until I have registered my car back home and I can't seem to find out how I do that online, as I am exempt from VRT as I have had the car for 5 years over here, at least thats what I have read?

You are all so helpful, thanks!

I'd say just bring the car and drive it like it is.
In the mean time start organising registration here. You need to have VRT inspection and you need to somehow arrange VRT exemption (sorry I don't know how you do it).
Until this is sorted drive on UK plates and UK insurance.
In relation to UK tax, technically probably you don't need to pay it considering it's due 1st March and you are leaving UK on 28th Feb, as no one in Ireland is going to ask you for it.
On the other hand I'm not sure what are the laws in UK, as they might send out fines if you don't pay it and still have car registered in UK on your name.

With insurance, if they say 90 days then it is 90 days.
Fact that you are changing residency shouldn't really matter, as within first few months no one will be able to prove that you changed it (as you said yourself you are in kind of a limbo).
And after 90 days expire, you will be left with third party cover only.

GalwayGirl33 · 16-02-2015 5:02pm

Yeah good plan I think... I will probably just pay the road tax here, its only £70 for the 6 months (makes me ill to think I will be paying 3 times that back home!!) and I will just wait until my insurance expires, or they tell me to cancel it as I am in Ireland permanently. Fun!

CiniO · 16-02-2015 5:33pm

GalwayGirl33 wrote: »

Yeah good plan I think... I will probably just pay the road tax here, its only £70 for the 6 months (makes me ill to think I will be paying 3 times that back home!!) and I will just wait until my insurance expires, or they tell me to cancel it as I am in Ireland permanently. Fun!

When is you insurance expiring?
Remember that once you register your car in Ireland and be assigned Irish registration number, you UK insurance won't cover you anymore.

GalwayGirl33 · 16-02-2015 6:09pm

My insurance is until June 7th, but my MOT will be due again in May, so really I will have to change everything over to home well before that.. if I can drag my insurance cover to the end of March maybe, and then I only lose a month of my MOT cert, before I have to get the NCT.. feckin cars, they are a pain in the hoop!

View · 16-02-2015 7:11pm

GalwayGirl33 wrote: »

My insurance is until June 7th, but my MOT will be due again in May, so really I will have to change everything over to home well before that.. if I can drag my insurance cover to the end of March maybe, and then I only lose a month of my MOT cert, before I have to get the NCT.. feckin cars, they are a pain in the hoop!

You are legally required to make an appointment with the NCTS within 7 days (of moving to Ireland) to re-register your car, were it applicable to pay VRT, to have an NCT and to get local motor tax.

You also need insurance in Ireland. Once the above is done getting insurance would be straightforward. If you can't get it yet then you need to ask for "Import Insurance" (which covers your case) - if you get refused it multiple times contact the Insurance Federation (or whatever it is called) and they are required to find an insurer to cover you (if I remember correctly).

If you have the misfortune to be involved in an accident, you want your insurance to cover you and it to be absolutley clear you are "above abroad" in all of the above.

Remember, UK stuff such as the MOT, motor tax are valid for the UK only. You should stop them as soon as you disembark from the ferry lest you incur fines for failing to renew them.

PS Don't forget your license. I don't know how the DVLA handle address changes in an emigration case but you don't want then racking up fines if you get a speeding ticket on the way to the ferry (I know someone in London who ended up paying 800 for a parking ticket as they forgot to tell the DVLA when they moved and got penalties applied). EU standard for license swops is it MUST be swopped to country of residence when either due for renewal or after 10 years BUT a member state can set lower limits for these (not sure if Ireland does but many others do so).

sunnysoutheast · 16-02-2015 7:53pm

GalwayGirl33 wrote: »

Hi there,
I am returning home for work in two weeks after living in the UK for nearly 6 years. I am driving home in my Ford Fiesta Zetec, which I bought in 2010. It is an 07 car. I get the ferry on Sunday 28th Feb. According to my insurance company, I am good to drive in Ireland for a few weeks, and I am due to pay my road tax on the 1st March too.
So, should I use those couple of weeks that I m covered by my insurance to organise getting my car registered here? Obviously if I am stopped for whatever reason I can say I am home temporarily with the possibility of staying. I still have an address, bank accounts and all the relevant links to the UK, including a UK drivers license after I had to change my Irish one over, so until I get set up in my job, and open a bank account etc, should I wait a couple of weeks before officially exporting my vehicle from the UK?
I think the DVAL here refund unused car tax.

Any advice is welcome, I just dont want to be voiding my insurance or anything, but I think I am ok to drive for my first couple of weeks at home on my UK details.

Are you planning to bring the car in vrt free under transfer of residence?

If so you had better read up on the revenue website, evidence requirements are strict.

The clock , offhand i think it's 30 days, starts ticking once you drive off the boat BTW and you have to show shipping ticket. Takes a week or so for revenue to issue exemption cert, then you have to go to nct centre for ie reg. You can insure on UK plates until ie reg is done.

Ignore the above if you just plan to pay the vrt.

myshirt · 16-02-2015 8:22pm

Yeah the VRT rules are borderline insane. You really need to go in there with lever arch folders of stuff. What you and I believe is enough proof you were living in the UK etc... not good enough. Very, very, very stringent. And you have to hold on to the car for two years afterwards, or else pay the VRT.

Depending on the car, sometimes not worth the hassle. Just sell over, pocket the money, and buy on this side.

And say thank you to all the Donegal boys for prompting all this hassle (off the cuff remark from a Revenue official!). Apparently they have an awful problem with guys up there thinking they can pull a fast one.

sunnysoutheast · 16-02-2015 8:47pm

myshirt wrote: »

Yeah the VRT rules are borderline insane. You really need to go in there with lever arch folders of stuff. What you and I believe is enough proof you were living in the UK etc... not good enough. Very, very, very stringent. And you have to hold on to the car for two years afterwards, or else pay the VRT.

Depending on the car, sometimes not worth the hassle. Just sell over, pocket the money, and buy on this side.

And say thank you to all the Donegal boys for prompting all this hassle (off the cuff remark from a Revenue official!). Apparently they have an awful problem with guys up there thinking they can pull a fast one.

Can't dispose of the imported vehicle within 12 months.

I brought a car in to Ireland vrt free in 2006 and all I had to show that time was a ferry ticket and an ie gas bill. In 2014 I had to provide uk bank statements, pay slips, the lot. The number of people who think you just need to own it for 6 months in the UK is mad.

GalwayGirl33 · 17-02-2015 12:13pm

Oh my good god, I have just looked at the transfer of residence form... Are they seriously asking for 6 months of bank statements as well as evidence of every load of groceries I have purchased?? Holy christ.
I would sell the car here, but the problem is there is a dent in it and besides it being perfectly fine to run, no one will buy it with a dent so no point selling. This is more complicated than I thought...
I am coming home to Galway for a couple of days next week, looks like I need a visit to the motor tax office while I am there to get my head around this. I definitely will be keeping it in my possession for the next couple of years as I wont be buying a new car.
Ugghhh this is so very annoying!!!

CiniO · 17-02-2015 12:27pm

GalwayGirl33 wrote: »

feckin cars, they are a pain in the hoop!

Heh great thing to say on a motoring forum

GalwayGirl33 wrote: »

Oh my good god, I have just looked at the transfer of residence form... Are they seriously asking for 6 months of bank statements as well as evidence of every load of groceries I have purchased?? Holy christ.

Well that isn't really that unreasonable.
You just need to prove them you were living in UK for that time.
6 months bank statements should be easily downloaded from your internet banking website, and this will include your groceries shopping listed there.
Doesn't really sound like too much hassle - 5 minuts on your PC to print it.

I would sell the car here, but the problem is there is a dent in it and besides it being perfectly fine to run, no one will buy it with a dent so no point selling. This is more complicated than I thought...
I am coming home to Galway for a couple of days next week, looks like I need a visit to the motor tax office while I am there to get my head around this.

Motor tax office has nothing to do with it.
It's the revenue and NCT centre you will be dealing with.

Sheldons Brain · 17-02-2015 1:25pm

The OP won't have any problem proving that she was living in the UK, but she will also have to prove that she has actually decided to move here in some sort of permanent way. I don't know how they do it since the tax discs were abolished in the UK, but they would expect current UK tax at the point of importation.

GalwayGirl33 · 17-02-2015 2:34pm

OK, so assuming I arrive home with Bank Statements for the last few months, proof of employment of the last two years, a P60 if I can get my hands on one, proof of payment of car insurance, road tax and MOT certs, the receipt of when I bought the car originally in 2010, AND, when I start my new job, a letter confirming my new job, a letter from my new bank (as I closed my account in BOI a couple of years ago) and maybe a letter from the credit union, as I have an account there, will this suffice? Also, does it make a difference that my car is actually 7 years old, with a dent in the back side of it, so therefore I am guessing I would only hypothetically sell it for pittance..???
I know this will all be fine, but i like to know every eventuality!

You are all very kind to be answering my mad queries, besides this I am very much looking forward to getting home!!!

ZV Yoda · 17-02-2015 5:28pm

GalwayGirl33 wrote: »

OK, so assuming I arrive home with Bank Statements for the last few months, proof of employment of the last two years, a P60 if I can get my hands on one, proof of payment of car insurance, road tax and MOT certs, the receipt of when I bought the car originally in 2010, AND, when I start my new job, a letter confirming my new job, a letter from my new bank (as I closed my account in BOI a couple of years ago) and maybe a letter from the credit union, as I have an account there, will this suffice? Also, does it make a difference that my car is actually 7 years old, with a dent in the back side of it, so therefore I am guessing I would only hypothetically sell it for pittance..???
I know this will all be fine, but i like to know every eventuality!

You are all very kind to be answering my mad queries, besides this I am very much looking forward to getting home!!!

You'll be grand. I did the same thing years ago. VRT office will want to see proof of UK residence, but as above, your documentation should be easy to obtain. Some other things to consider:

Motor insurance here is more expensive than the UK, so you might want to get some quotes so you know what you're facing. I would plan on having Irish insurance in place as soon as you get your new car reg number from the VRT office. Personally, I wouldn't rely on your UK insurance unless they confirm your cover in writing.
If you have a UK driver's licence (I do), some insurance firms are a bit finnicky. I had a few probs initially, but not anymore.
The annual motor tax rates here are different for pre 2008 cars (based on engine size) vs. post 2008 (based on CO2 emissions). You might find that your 2007 car is more expensive to tax (every year) than an identical 2008 car. Def worth checking, because will impact the resale value of your car.
Given the current high stg to euro exchange rate, you might be better off selling your car in the UK & using the proceeds to buy a similar car here.

Best of luck. Nice to hear about somebody actually being able to return home to a job.

saffdon · 26-05-2015 9:25pm

Folks,
In a bit of bother I think and need advice
I'm from Northern Ireland and I've owned my car since 2010.
Its always been fully tax, registered, MOTed and insured to my address in the North.
I've been back and forth working the south since then. I always been in England studying. But the whole time the car has been essentially sorted from northern ireland viewpoint
I've decided to switch my car over.
When I asked revenue they said I dont qualify for the VRT exemption because I got a wage in the south about a month after a bought the car in 2010. Essentially saying thats when the car entered the state. Even though it was stored and operate in the North. They gave me the option of VRTing or exporting.
Leaving that argument aside. Which I understand is shakey at best.
If I go to pay the VRT - which at this stage I'm willing to do- What date do I then say I enter the State - will I honestly be setting myself for penalties dating back to 2010!?!?
Can I just state for the form the last time the car crossed the border?
The car is probably worth 3.5k. VRT calculator says the VRT would be 950 or thereabouts.
I've seen some references to the penalties being 0.02% of the VRT - if you take the 2010 date thats 36k!!!

Please help!

td2008 · 26-05-2015 10:20pm

Have you been working and living in the UK for the last 6 months?
As long as you have had the car in the UK for last 6 months and can prove living there for that time you should be exempt.
What happened in 2010 is irrelevant.

saffdon · 26-05-2015 10:29pm

No, I've been down here.
I was in the Uk for 2 years before moving back down here in July 2014.
The car was based in the North for the most part.
As sickening as it is, I don't think I can get the exemption.
The person I was talking to in Revenue was only looking at the dates I bought the car and the date I first received wages.
He did not entertain anything else.
I've more or less made peace with it.
That is the VRT - but my main concern are any kind of penalties.
I am honestly struggling to get together the VRT charge.
If there were any additionals, I could not afford them

26-05-2015 10:40pm

Things much have got fierce tough since I brought in a car under the VRT exemption 6 years ago. I drive it here on UK plates for 6 months and the sent in my mother (as I hadn't time) with my documents to register it. All they looked at was my UK insurance cert and the registration cert. All done in a few mins.

td2008 · 26-05-2015 10:50pm

saffdon wrote: »

No, I've been down here.
I was in the Uk for 2 years before moving back down here in July 2014.
The car was based in the North for the most part.
As sickening as it is, I don't think I can get the exemption.
The person I was talking to in Revenue was only looking at the dates I bought the car and the date I first received wages.
He did not entertain anything else.
I've more or less made peace with it.
That is the VRT - but my main concern are any kind of penalties.
I am honestly struggling to get together the VRT charge.
If there were any additionals, I could not afford them

Yeah doesn't look like you qualify. Just book the car in for a VRT import in the nct, fill out the VRTVPD2, you can put you bought it as a private sale or whatever then flll out this
https://www.ncts.ie/pdf/VRTFormFinal%20Version.pdf

and put the date as today or whenever you get around to doing it.

saffdon · 26-05-2015 11:07pm

Yeah I think you are right.
I've booked in for the VRT - and I've accepted that I will have to bite the bullet and pay.
But my main concerns are penalties etc.
Is it simple enough to put down the date I was stopped / last time it crossed the border?
Like I said, if I can pay the VRT and be done with it - I'll be happy (kinda) enough!

Sheldons Brain · 26-05-2015 11:21pm

saffdon wrote: »

Folks,
In a bit of bother I think and need advice
I'm from Northern Ireland and I've owned my car since 2010.
Its always been fully tax, registered, MOTed and insured to my address in the North.
I've been back and forth working the south since then. I always been in England studying. But the whole time the car has been essentially sorted from northern ireland viewpoint
I've decided to switch my car over.
When I asked revenue they said I dont qualify for the VRT exemption because I got a wage in the south about a month after a bought the car in 2010. Essentially saying thats when the car entered the state. Even though it was stored and operate in the North. They gave me the option of VRTing or exporting.
Leaving that argument aside. Which I understand is shakey at best.
If I go to pay the VRT - which at this stage I'm willing to do- What date do I then say I enter the State - will I honestly be setting myself for penalties dating back to 2010!?!?
Can I just state for the form the last time the car crossed the border?
The car is probably worth 3.5k. VRT calculator says the VRT would be 950 or thereabouts.
I've seen some references to the penalties being 0.02% of the VRT - if you take the 2010 date thats 36k!!!

Please help!

They are bull****ting you. Read the rules carefully.
When you worked periodicially since 2010 you did not transfer your normal residence, your family ties remained in the North and you returned there regularly. So there was no transfer of residence. You are fully entitled to now transfer your residence if you now have a permanent job or the like and some clear intention to move permanently.

There is a certain symmetry with these things. People are always coming on here who work in England for a few months and they cannot bring back a car because they didn't really transfer normal residence. You may have worked in the Republic for a short while, but did not transfer your residence.

saffdon · 26-05-2015 11:30pm

Sorry - just realised there was a typo in my first message - it should have read "I've also been studying in England" not ALWAYS!

Timeline of events basically:
Bought the car Jan 2010
Started work in Feb 2010.
Car tax, insured and etc based in the North. Reg to me.
Stopped work 2012 - moved to UK.
Moved back into South July 2014.
Car still based in North, the entire time. Tax, insurance, reg and MOT.

The guy in revenue on the phone wouldnt accept it - so if I were to argue it - whats my next course?

I dont think I can.

Main fear is penalties

Sheldons Brain · 27-05-2015 12:34pm

saffdon wrote: »

Sorry - just realised there was a typo in my first message - it should have read "I've also been studying in England" not ALWAYS!

Timeline of events basically:
Bought the car Jan 2010
Started work in Feb 2010.
Car tax, insured and etc based in the North. Reg to me.
Stopped work 2012 - moved to UK.
Moved back into South July 2014.
Car still based in North, the entire time. Tax, insurance, reg and MOT.

The guy in revenue on the phone wouldnt accept it - so if I were to argue it - whats my next course?

I dont think I can.

Main fear is penalties

It comes down to detail here. Where was the job in the 26 counties? Where you generally returning to NI at weekends and holidays?

Basically normal residence is "sticky", if you were doing a job for 18 months with the intention of going back to college then you didn't change your normal residence. In fact you could not have imported the car in 2010 if only coming for a short period as it would not be a real transfer of residence. Although it would be easier if you had kept some evidence of coming and going in 2011 you should be in the clear. Basically you were operating under

"if your occupational ties are in a different country from your personal ties then the country of your personal ties is taken as your normal residence if you return there regularly (i.e. for most of your non-working days"

http://www.revenue.ie/en/tax/vrt/leaflets/temporary-exemption-foreign-registered.html

Don't argue on the phone, write and state clearly two things
- in 2010 you never intended to settle in the ROI, only work to get the cash to go back to college
- while working there, your personal ties remained in NI and you returned there regularly

On a small point, did you get any student loans etc for the course, this would be evidence of your NI residence.

saffdon · 27-05-2015 12:43pm

I had emailed revenue initially and then someone had rang me back.
As that person has flat out denied my application from the outset - I'm not sure what my next recourse would be.
I would have been regularly travelling back and forth between the North in the 2010-2012 period - I would have bank statements to prove it I guess. Sky bills in my name for my house in the North.
I have loans as well as utility bills from University in Liverpool 2013-2014.

I think its a done deal that I will have to pay the VRT.

Any opinions on potential penalties?

Returning to Ireland with UK car

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