Interesting letter in todays Indo

ronbyrne2005 · 15-04-2009 12:12pm #1

http://www.independent.ie/opinion/letters/now-golfing-pays-better-than-work-1708412.html

I recently had a long conversation with a friend of mine who lost his job. He was in a reasonably good job and after a little bit of overtime was earning a gross salary of €35,000 per year.

So I asked him the obvious question of how he was going to cope now with four children to feed and, I have to be honest, the answer startled me.

He was actually a lot better off and now in a position to go out golfing every day while his children are at school.

Frankly, I did not believe him until I sat down and did the sums. On a salary of €35,000, his annual net income after the mini Budget was €28,854, after all deductions.

Now he is on the supplementary welfare allowance which -- with a wife and four children -- gives you €443.90 per week, or €23,083 annually.

As he also has a mortgage, he is entitled to mortgage interest supplement which pays all the interest on your mortgage. In his case, this was €1,200 per month of his €1,500 mortgage, or €14,400 per annum.

He is also entitled to back-to-school and footwear payment of €905 per year for four children, a medical card which is worth, on average, say €500 per year (probably more) and a heating supplement which I cannot quantify.

In total, he now has tax-free income of €38,888, an increase in his net income of €10,034 per year for working on his golf handicap.

Based on the calculations after the mini-Budget, you would need to earn more than €47,000 per year if you have four children to justify continuing to work.

This is even before taking into account the costs of working, such as petrol, car maintenance, tolls, lunches and so on.

Now in any civilised society, and especially in a society in a deep recession with a huge welfare bill, surely the government must give people an incentive to go out and work

Making the child benefit taxable or means tested later this year is just going to make the situation worse and encourage more people to give up work and rely on the State to live.

It could even drive our small economy to collapse as the welfare bill gets bigger and bigger as more people, including myself, ask: why should I bother to go out to work when it is basically costing me money to work?

Unless something radically changes, I will be joining my mate on the golf course very soon.

Andy McNamara
Drogheda, Co Louth

ShooterSF · 15-04-2009 12:58pm

Instead of doing a load of maths and getting outraged at the government why doesn't he get outraged at his "mate" who instead of seeking a job is out playing golf and therefore committing fraud?

ScumLord · 15-04-2009 1:21pm

ShooterSF wrote: »

Instead of doing a load of maths and getting outraged at the government why doesn't he get outraged at his "mate" who instead of seeking a job is out playing golf and therefore committing fraud?

Not if he intends to become a professional golfer.

I've heard this kind of stuff from loads of people before, once from a single mother who wouldn't take any extra hours at work because she'd end up worse off. I wouldn't blame them for it either why break your balls every day if you can get paid more relaxing.

Sam Vimes · 15-04-2009 1:23pm

Makes sense to me

/quits job

Rented Mule · 15-04-2009 1:32pm

The System that works .....so you don't have to.

ShooterSF · 15-04-2009 1:35pm

ScumLord wrote: »

Not if he intends to become a professional golfer.

I've heard this kind of stuff from loads of people before, once from a single mother who wouldn't take any extra hours at work because she'd end up worse off. I wouldn't blame them for it either why break your balls every day if you can get paid more relaxing.

He's still not seeking a job. Either pro or not

I do understand people on 3 days not taking extra hours but by god ya really would want to enjoy your golf.
Still I love this misplaced outrage. His mate is basically the big problem with the system not the amount paid out.

dade · 15-04-2009 1:39pm

ScumLord wrote: »

, once from a single mother who wouldn't take any extra hours at work because she'd end up worse off.

that's why it's known as the poverty trap. that if they did work full time and earn over the threshold they'd loose some monetary benefits and also things like the medical card etc so it's financially not worth their while trying to get a job/work more hours etc.

dade · 15-04-2009 1:42pm

ShooterSF wrote: »

instead of seeking a job is out playing golf and therefore committing fraud?

just out of ignorance on my part what is the guy doing that is fraudulant?

ShooterSF · 15-04-2009 1:45pm

dade wrote: »

just out of ignorance on my part what is the guy doing that is fraudulant?

Receiving Job seekers benefit while not actively seeking a job. Instead he's out playing golf while "the kids are at school".

S.I.R · 15-04-2009 1:46pm

thats it, im going to start paying tax... but i need kids first...

Ebay here i come...

nomorebadtown · 15-04-2009 1:47pm

Playing golf instead of seeking work (he's on jobseekers payments)
of course you can do both

Sam Vimes · 15-04-2009 1:47pm

ShooterSF wrote: »

He's still not seeking a job. Either pro or not I do understand people on 3 days not taking extra hours but by god ya really would want to enjoy your golf.
Still I love this misplaced outrage. His mate is basically the big problem with the system not the amount paid out.

I can see your point but when you get right down to it, his mate is now considerably better off than he was when he was working. That should not be possible in a functioning welfare system because it's only human to take the easier option.

Usually the welfare option is easier in exchange for not having as much money but the only downside here is "loss of pride" and for a lot of people, their pride can be bought for an extra 10k a year, especially now because whenever he does decide to go and get a job it'll be easier than before Stephen to explain to an employer why he's been unemployed so long.

As far as I can see there is no incentive for him to get off welfare and that situation needs to be rectified.

Saibh · 15-04-2009 1:47pm

ShooterSF wrote: »

Receiving Job seekers benefit while not actively seeking a job. Instead he's out playing golf while "the kids are at school".

Can't imagine he is out playing golf the whole day either. He should have time to do both, play golf and look for a job.

Dyr · 15-04-2009 1:48pm

hmmm..where would I acquire four kids post haste?

Mr.Lizard · 15-04-2009 1:50pm

If I was on 35k I wouldn't consider it sensible to have four kids. But hey that's just me.

15-04-2009 1:54pm

ShooterSF wrote: »

Receiving Job seekers benefit while not actively seeking a job. Instead he's out playing golf while "the kids are at school".

you have no idea what you're talking about. he is in no way committing fraud..

cop on.

gurramok · 15-04-2009 1:56pm

The mortgage interest supplement is only paid for 1 year afaik

frag420 · 15-04-2009 1:58pm

I can see nothing wrong with this at all. We have been taken for a ride by the government for far too long now and if there is a loophole available then lets jump through it! Why break your balls for a pittance when you can get more while at the same time improving your swing. Its a no brainer.

Now i wonder if it aplies to surfing as my golf swing is atrocious!

LouOB · 15-04-2009 2:01pm

Will you ask him to give me my money back
As Im paying for him to improve his handicap

*goes off to be passive agressive elsewhere

Saibh · 15-04-2009 2:03pm

frag420 wrote: »

I can see nothing wrong with this at all. We have been taken for a ride by the government for far too long now and if there is a loophole available then lets jump through it! Why break your balls for a pittance when you can get more while at the same time improving your swing. Its a no brainer.

Now i wonder if it aplies to surfing as my golf swing is atrocious!

Its all well and good saying that, but where do think the government is going to get the money to pay for people on the dole - it will be left to the workers who will have to be pay higher taxes, prsi etc.,

The money has to come from somewhere.

brianthebard · 15-04-2009 2:08pm

I didn't think golf clubs allowed unemployed people to play on their courses, I think this letter writer is a troll! :eek:

dade · 15-04-2009 2:10pm

ShooterSF wrote: »

Receiving Job seekers benefit while not actively seeking a job.

ok so supplementary welfare allowance is job seekers benifit? geniunly not taking teh pi$$ here I don't know teh terms for these benifits I haven't been on teh dole in about 15 years

ntlbell · 15-04-2009 2:10pm

brianthebard wrote: »

I didn't think golf clubs allowed unemployed people to play on their courses, I think this letter writer is a troll! :eek:

this rule was revoked after a number of high profile builders went bust.

They also will now take butter vouchers as part membership

ShooterSF · 15-04-2009 2:12pm

Deleted User wrote: »

you have no idea what you're talking about. he is in no way committing fraud..

cop on.

Really? The guy is using the time he was in work to play golf rather than search for a job. If he's searching it's at best a half assed effort. I don't think people on the dole shouldn't be able to enjoy themselves but I think they should invest an equal amount of time searching for work as they would working if they had a job.
He obviously isn't if he has more time now to work on his handicap.

Dublin_Gunner · 15-04-2009 2:22pm

ShooterSF wrote: »

Really? The guy is using the time he was in work to play golf rather than search for a job. If he's searching it's at best a half assed effort. I don't think people on the dole shouldn't be able to enjoy themselves but I think they should invest an equal amount of time searching for work as they would working if they had a job.
He obviously isn't if he has more time now to work on his handicap.

And sure while you're at it, get the government to hire a bunch of people to go around checking that dole claimers are actively looking for jobs. Give me a break. Searching for a job is hardly an 8 hour a day exercise.

But the letter itself merely strengthens points I have been making in other threads.

Why on earth would you go to work to be less well off for the sake of it? Not only that, but a situation like this is a vicious circle.

The more people that get let go - the more will be on benefits. The more on benefits, the more will be unlikely to look for a job, as they are now better off, without even having to put much effort in.

And heres the crux of the issue - the more people that end up like golf-swing bloke, the less money there is to pay for these benefits. In time, this will mean that there will be more money being paid out in benefits, than is being collected through income taxes. The country will implode.

What fantastic economists we have emplyed in our government. Are any of them actually accountants? or even studied maths in school? Own a calculator? Abacus?

I swear this country is gone beyond a joke.

destroyer · 15-04-2009 2:23pm

ShooterSF wrote: »

Instead of doing a load of maths and getting outraged at the government why doesn't he get outraged at his "mate" who instead of seeking a job is out playing golf and therefore committing fraud?

LOL at this nonsense. I know people who work 80+ hours a week and still have time to play golf, so I imagine one could actively look for work and have lots of time for golf.
Are you by any chance trying to distract from the evidence presented in the post that the welfare system is flawed?
I have 4 kids also and no way would I work for 28,000 to try to support them when I could get more on welfare. In fact I would suggest that your
first responsibility is to your kids, so if welfare pays more thats where you should be.

ShooterSF · 15-04-2009 2:31pm

Ok. Fine. Say the guy is hunting a job the letter writer also says "Unless something radically changes, I will be joining my mate on the golf course very soon."

So is he claiming he intends to quit his job and make more money that way while of course searching for a job? Does he then quit again as soon as he gets another job? Is that really hunting a job?

I'm not fond of all these extra add on's for kids and mortgages but I don't think basic social for an honest job seeker is too much.

Rayan · 15-04-2009 2:41pm

gurramok wrote: »

The mortgage interest supplement is only paid for 1 year afaik

I don't think that's correct - nothing mentioned here anyway

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/categories/social-welfare/social-welfare-payments/supplementary-welfare-schemes/mortgage_interest_supplement

This makes me sick though, my new income levy/tax/prsi/etc are paying for this man to basically play golf all day. But there's no point blaming him, the welfare system in place that allows him get away with this is the problem.

The Orb · 15-04-2009 2:42pm

I'd love to put that guy's nutsack on a tee and smack it straight down the middle. This is why the country is fooked, in a well run country it should not be possible to make more money in this manner from the state than from working.And I can't believe a lot posters think it's a great thing altogether. I don't mind my taxes being used to help people get back on their feet but not to live it up and give society two fingers. That's where the country's €20bn welfare bill is going, on wasters like him, and that's why the rest of us are levied up to our necks.

Darkbloom · 15-04-2009 2:44pm

ShooterSF wrote: »

Really? The guy is using the time he was in work to play golf rather than search for a job....

Says you. Say he gets up at 6 to be on the course for 7 and plays for 4 hours. Back home by midday and has plenty of hours to apply for jobs.

destroyer · 15-04-2009 2:46pm

He either finds a job that pays more than the social, or he keeps turning down/quitting any jobs/offers and stays on welfare. To do anything else would be mad and also not in the best interest of his children.
Its the welfare system thats at fault, not the golfer.

Interesting letter in todays Indo

Comments