What to say when you friend runs 3:00:01

MisterDrak · 15-04-2014 9:20am #1

A friend of mine, ran 3:00:01 in Rotterdam at the weekend, and has being trying to run a sub 3 for several years now. Also just missed out in Dublin last year running 3:00:30. He is in the M50 category so I guess the chances of running sub 3 are dwindling ?

He has a solid training base, and was running 70-80mile weeks in the lead up to Rotterdam.
His Half time in Bohermeen indicated that he would easily run sub 3.

Any and all advice gratefully accepted...

ger664 · 15-04-2014 9:22am

Take 2 weeks recovery and go again in Limerick.

Krusty_Clown · 15-04-2014 9:40am

ger664 wrote: »

Take 2 weeks recovery and go again in Limerick.

If he gave it all he had to cross the finish line in 3:00:01, then there isn't a hope in hell he will be in shape to have another go in a couple of weeks time. He shouldn't even be considering any sessions for a couple of weeks.

My suggestion would be to train for 2:55 in their next marathon. It sounds (loose interpretation based on no data whatsoever!) like it has become a mental barrier, so the key lies in ramping up the intensity, rather than the mileage. Once recovered, have him focus on breaking 18 minutes for 5k and 37 minutes for 10k, while maintaining a semi long run at the weekend. If he's already faster than those times, set more aggressive targets, but increase the intensity of the long run at the weekend (include some marathon pace miles towards the end of the occasional long run).

Unless you were just looking for a way to console him?
In that case, tap him gently on the shoulder, and say "there there.... there, there...".

Micilin Muc · 15-04-2014 9:51am

Tell him it was the sniper's fault.

rom · 15-04-2014 9:52am

2:59:61

roadsmart · 15-04-2014 9:54am

Run faster?

Ron DMC · 15-04-2014 9:56am

Clock time or chip time? Tell him the mat was farther than the 26.2.

MisterDrak · 15-04-2014 10:02am

Krusty_Clown wrote: »

If he gave it all he had to cross the finish line in 3:00:01, then there isn't a hope in hell he will be in shape to have another go in a couple of weeks time. He shouldn't even be considering any sessions for a couple of weeks.

My suggestion would be to train for 2:55 in their next marathon. It sounds (loose interpretation based on no data whatsoever!) like it has become a mental barrier, so the key lies in ramping up the intensity, rather than the mileage. Once recovered, have him focus on breaking 18 minutes for 5k and 37 minutes for 10k, while maintaining a semi long run at the weekend. If he's already faster than those times, set more aggressive targets, but increase the intensity of the long run at the weekend (include some marathon pace miles towards the end of the occasional long run).

Unless you were just looking for a way to console him?
In that case, tap him gently on the shoulder, and say "there there.... there, there...".

Krusty,

Sage advice us usual...By way of brief background (and I'm not 100% on the detail here) :-

He followed a generic club plan, with lots of miles.
6 days per week training, with following key sessions -
1 LSR hitting 20-23 miles 5 times.
1 track session day.
1 hill day.
1 MLR
2 other days...

Craughwell 10m - 62:45
Bohermeen Half - 84:34

Possibly the problem was fatigue with the last LSR was only 2 out with 18miles at 7:07avg ???

MisterDrak · 15-04-2014 10:03am

Ron DMC wrote: »

Clock time or chip time? Tell him the mat was farther than the 26.2.

Garmin time 3:00:01
Chip 3:00:04

Ron DMC · 15-04-2014 10:04am

MisterDrak wrote: »

Garmin time 3:00:01
Chip 3:00:04

Ugh, that actually feels like a kick in the face.

Peterx · 15-04-2014 10:12am

lose one kilo*

Tell him to enter Dublin, with a 16 week programme which starts on Monday the 7th of July.
After he recovers in two weeks time it's time to change focus to getting his 5k time down for the 12 weeks between now and the start of the 16 week program.
Or trying something different like hillrunning or swimming or try a few track races, take up yoga.

*"1 percent loss of body mass, primarily as body fat, there will be an approximate 1 percent increase in running speed....marathoners who are carrying excess body weight, primarily body fat but also excess upper-body muscle.....Excessive weight loss, however, may impair the health and performance"
http://www.marathonandbeyond.com/choices/williams.htm

rom · 15-04-2014 10:17am

The total course also has a .1% error factor (added to it to ensure it’s never short). So he did run sub 3 as it would take 10.8 sec to cover the extra distance. He ran 26.2 in under 3 hours

Krusty_Clown · 15-04-2014 10:23am

MisterDrak wrote: »

Krusty,

Sage advice us usual...By way of brief background (and I'm not 100% on the detail here) :-

He followed a generic club plan, with lots of miles.
6 days per week training, with following key sessions -
1 LSR hitting 20-23 miles 5 times.
1 track session day.
1 hill day.
1 MLR
2 other days...

Craughwell 10m - 62:45
Bohermeen Half - 84:34

Possibly the problem was fatigue with the last LSR was only 2 out with 18miles at 7:07avg ???

His half marathon time puts him 'there, or thereabouts' as the expression goes. The problem with aiming for sub 3, is that there is no comfort zone, no margin for error. Even the slightest variable change can put you slightly off course and mean that you miss out on your goal. A couple of degrees hotter, a head-wind towards the latter parts of the race, mild dehydration. Any of them can just push you slightly outside of 'planned marathon effort', and cost you those vital seconds. You should communicate to your buddy that he has run the equivalent of a sub-3 marathon, and he needs to move onwards and upwards to target a more aggressive goal (like 2:55). To do that, he'll need to get faster and stronger. If he has followed the same style of marathon plan for a few spins of the marathon wheel, he should consider looking at a different style of plan, just because it will stretch him and improve him in different ways. But mostly, just buy him a beer and congratulate him on running a three hour marathon!

hmmm · 15-04-2014 10:23am

When he's out with friends, saying "I ran 2.59" sounds like boasting, but putting on a rueful face and saying "I ran 3.01 I nearly killed myself training for it, ffs" will lead to plenty of slagging and a better story overall. So there's always that

drquirky · 15-04-2014 10:30am

Make sure to tell him not to make an attempt on sub 3 in a marathon where Ecoli is the pacer

:D:P:P:P:P

rom · 15-04-2014 10:35am

hmmm wrote: »

When he's out with friends, saying "I ran 2.59" sounds like boasting

Nothing wrong with boasting. Putting hard work in for a few years to achieve your goal you should boast. Well thats my plan for the week :pac:

morceli · 15-04-2014 10:36am

Tell him well done that great running. No reason why he cant go sub 3 at all without changing anything in his plan.

ger664 · 15-04-2014 10:51am

Krusty_Clown wrote: »

If he gave it all he had to cross the finish line in 3:00:01, then there isn't a hope in hell he will be in shape to have another go in a couple of weeks time. He shouldn't even be considering any sessions for a couple of weeks.

His Half time in Bohermeen indicated that he would easily run sub 3.

I based my answer on this comment from OP. I assumed that he ran a stinker thus would recover quickly and have the disappointment of been so close fresh in his mind to drive him on in Limerick.

On now seeing the times he ran for Craughwell and Bohermeen I would totally agree with your sentiment. He was just about knocking on the door of 3 Hours and has a really hard race in his legs. He needs to move on target a more aggressive time to give himself some wiggle room.

belcarra · 15-04-2014 12:11pm

If it was a week ago you could have told him he was still quicker than Gavlor.
I guess those days are over now though...:pac:

RayCun · 15-04-2014 12:19pm

still faster than ecoli

carlton36 · 15-04-2014 10:50pm

MisterDrak wrote: »

He is in the M50 category so I guess the chances of running sub 3 are dwindling ?

Why should this be the case? Your friend shouldn't think of his age as a negative factor, just look at the M50 results in Rotterdam where there were 27 sub 3 finishers.

PaulieYifter · 15-04-2014 11:24pm

I feel gutted for him. I did a 21 mile run with him in Feb and he was full of sympathy for me missing by 18 seconds saying I was a lot closer to sub 3 than he was on his previous effort. He was in great shape for that run but I was wondering if he'd be able to stay sound at that intensity for another 2 months.

If you look at his splits he ran the 1st half in low 1:28. Obviously with hindsight now that looks a bit agressive.

I've been full of my own 3:00 story since last June and have been saying to AMK it's a good story. However this chap already had the 3:00 story and must be gutted. He's a legend though!

TFBubendorfer · 16-04-2014 8:12am

MisterDrak wrote: »

His Half time in Bohermeen indicated that he would easily run sub 3.

MisterDrak wrote: »

Bohermeen Half - 84:34

I wonder if that's where the problem lies. If he expected the sub-3 to be easy he might not have been mentally able to switch into "hard" mode when push came to shove.

As has been pointed out, a mid-84 half certainly does not indicate that sub-3 would come easily. Quite the opposite, it's touch and go and the runner would have to run at the edge of his abilities and most things on the day would have to go right.

Sickening though, your mate has my sympathies. It's a bit like coming 101st in Ballycotton :rolleyes:

christeb · 16-04-2014 8:32am

PaulieYifter wrote: »

If you look at his splits he ran the 1st half in low 1:28. Obviously with hindsight now that looks a bit agressive.

I've a feeling this is where the problem lies. When you're cutting it close, which he was always gonna do, then something closer to 1:29:00 - 1:29:30 sounds much better.

A consolatory beer and lots of easy runs out are what's needed right now.

MisterDrak · 16-04-2014 9:50am

christeb wrote: »

I've a feeling this is where the problem lies. When you're cutting it close, which he was always gonna do, then something closer to 1:29:00 - 1:29:30 sounds much better.

A consolatory beer and lots of easy runs out are what's needed right now.

Think your right there. He was under on illusion that sub 3 was going to be easy.

Due to run with him tomorrow night for 3-4 easy on grass, if he is still set on DCM14, I might steer him to the "Sub 3 Support Tread"...

Timmaay · 16-04-2014 10:13am

What is the friends opinion on it? Is he utterly gutted also? To be bluntly honest I wouldn't let this phase ya at all, nobody died etc ha, its still a big achievement, lets imagine he like dipped on the line or whatever and ran his 0.05 of a sec quicker, does that suddenly make him a better person etc ha? Not in the slightest unfortunately

. And next time when he does hopefully blow 3hrs out of the water, its usually a case of ok, next target, 2.55/50 etc! It does all make for a great story down the pub or at training etc, and at the end of the day if ya can't have the craic about it your frankly doing it wrong

rom · 16-04-2014 11:25am

I heard a story of someone running Belfast. Afterwards they were gutted as they thought they were well able to run sub 3. They found out that there was someone important running at the time and the route was changed so they ran longer and they would have ran sub 3 on the original route. This was before the time of watches. They never did run sub 3. Your friend has the opportunity to go and run sub 3 the next time.

buck65 · 17-04-2014 1:56pm

Say well done, a fantastic achievement.

PaulieC · 17-04-2014 2:18pm

Say "Just think if you had just ran a bit faster you'd be a sub-3 marathoner, but now you're just a wannabe"

Alicano · 17-04-2014 5:54pm

Hi OP. Not sure which one of the gang you are but it's Al here. If I'm guessing correct based on details, I'd be considered the person in questions 'training partner'?. If so, I fully agree with your post. I have not known what to say since. The finish line was awful. We have trained together for 16months now, and if you were to bet on only one of us getting sub3 in Rotterdamn, it would be not have been me I don't think.(I knew I could do it but the internet said no!).
He was coming off 3:00:28 in Dub and I felt the course alone would give him the 30secs needed. He put in a tonne of training and defo deserved it. He tripped around 16-17miles and wobbled badly. I was a few meters back and he lost 10-15secs of pace at that moment. It must be keeping him awake ever since. I was so sorry for him and it killed my buzz at the time.
He is a great runner and had superb form leading up to it.
Running is just weird like that sometimes. You love it and feel amazing..then it makes a mess of you another time.
I felt the whole gang were very tense all weekend and took it too serious(Of course you take it seriously and give it your best..but like a previous poster mentioned, nobody died).
We didn't even meet for a 7-up that Sun night which i thought was odd seeing as 4 of 5 of us ran a PB?
He'll crack it. And all who know him will be delighted to see it. I hope I've the right person or this was a pointless post!!:D

Chivito550 · 17-04-2014 7:25pm

Alicano wrote: »

Hi OP. Not sure which one of the gang you are but it's Al here. If I'm guessing correct based on details, I'd be considered the person in questions 'training partner'?. If so, I fully agree with your post. I have not known what to say since. The finish line was awful. We have trained together for 16months now, and if you were to bet on only one of us getting sub3 in Rotterdamn, it would be not have been me I don't think.(I knew I could do it but the internet said no!).
He was coming off 3:00:28 in Dub and I felt the course alone would give him the 30secs needed. He put in a tonne of training and defo deserved it. He tripped around 16-17miles and wobbled badly. I was a few meters back and he lost 10-15secs of pace at that moment. It must be keeping him awake ever since. I was so sorry for him and it killed my buzz at the time.
He is a great runner and had superb form leading up to it.
Running is just weird like that sometimes. You love it and feel amazing..then it makes a mess of you another time.
I felt the whole gang were very tense all weekend and took it too serious(Of course you take it seriously and give it your best..but like a previous poster mentioned, nobody died).
We didn't even meet for a 7-up that Sun night which i thought was odd seeing as 4 of 5 of us ran a PB?
He'll crack it. And all who know him will be delighted to see it. I hope I've the right person or this was a pointless post!!:D

I really think this is over the top. It's not a catastrophe. He just needs to aim higher. As Sonia O'Sullivan said about Irish athletes aiming for Olympic and World standards, if they aimed a bit further than the standard then they'd nail it, rather than just aiming for the standard and then missing out. Same applies here. This guy needs to stop thinking about 3 hours. It will just stunt his improvement. Aim for 2:55 or even 2:50 in his next training cycle and he'll get the sub 3.

The whole not celebrating after is ridiculous. Perspective. I was in Auschwitz last week. That was a disaster. This is a minor inconvenience. How old is he? Is he injury free? No reason why he can't nail (and more) it next time with a change in attitude.

Sorry for being harsh. And I can relate. I targeted sub 55 for 400m last season, and what did I run? 55.00!

Alicano · 17-04-2014 8:10pm

Not sure which part of my post is over the top??
I think it's natural to feel really sympathetic with a clubmate who missed a huge goal by a cruel margin.
Yes nobody died. The OP is more of a frienship/social/motivate question than an OMG call 911

He'll be back better than before for DCM14 and even nicer to do it on home soil maybe?
Again, I might have the wrong person here..but ultimatley. Enjoy the great runs and dust off the bad ones I say.

Chivito550 · 17-04-2014 8:20pm

Alicano wrote: »

Not sure which part of my post is over the top??
I think it's natural to feel really sympathetic with a clubmate who missed a huge goal by a cruel margin.
Yes nobody died. The OP is more of a frienship/social/motivate question than an OMG call 911
He'll be back better than before for DCM14 and even nicer to do it on home soil maybe?
Again, I might have the wrong person here..but ultimatley. Enjoy the great runs and dust off the bad ones I say.

I recall one poster here running 3:00:00. He got the sub 3 after that. It will happen, assuming he learns from his mistakes this time around, and keeps pushing for improvement.

What to say when you friend runs 3:00:01

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