Cycling the wicklow Way

ulif · 07-02-2008 10:33am

joemc99 wrote: »

Cross, amazing sport, got a deadly 3rd in the nationals, loved it.....amazing bikes, sooooooooo fast, especially with my new tubs and carbon wheels. On the edge of the tyres EVERYWHERE. Great bikes for fields and fast smooth tracks, but crap for off-road.

All this talk of WW amkes me want to try the whole thing again, doing a couple of overnighters soon, down to Brooklodge and back next day etc, but no plans to do the whole thing.............mmmmmmmmmmmm????

Joe

Great result at the nationals, fair play to you!
It indeed IS a great sport. And you're right, on single trails or on rough stoney paths they're pretty useless. At the place where I originate from we have miles of what I believe you call "fireroads". On a CX you're a lot faster than a HT.

Have you ever done the "three peaks CX" in the UK?

So how about we gather a bunch of guys to do the whole WW in a day and you guys smack the crap out of me?

I just have to wait to get my new sweetie:

joemc99 · 07-02-2008 3:31pm

ohhhhh, ti cross bike......droooolllllllllllllllllllll.....ti cross forks.....SNAPPPP

. did you get the bike? Looks v nice indeed. I just got my ridley supercross, just in time for 08/0-9 season :mad:

I have absolutly no interest in doing the 3 peaks. Some people may love the challenge, but kinda pointless IMO. Like trying to surf with high heals in a chicken suit....dont get it!

ulif · 07-02-2008 3:39pm

No, isn't mine. Was looking for a CX for MONTHS when I saw this on a forum. HAD to have it. It's exactly what I always wanted. Hope to get it by spring

I'm sure the Ridley is a great ride - enjoy! (Maybe we should go downunder this summer for cross season.)

Re: 3peak - true indeed if the course would be slower than on a HT (which I don't know but you seem to know).

joemc99 · 07-02-2008 6:04pm

ulif wrote: »

No, isn't mine. Was looking for a CX for MONTHS when I saw this on a forum. HAD to have it. It's exactly what I always wanted. Hope to get it by spring

I'm sure the Ridley is a great ride - enjoy! (Maybe we should go downunder this summer for cross season.)

Re: 3peak - true indeed if the course would be slower than on a HT (which I don't know but you seem to know).

yeah, 3 peaks may be quicker on a crosser for the front guys, a lot of it is on tarmac. Not really my problem with the race, I fecking HATE really rough surfaces in cross, seems to be a lot of it in the 3 peaks.....would be a good challenge though.....its defo a bike breaker too.

Enduro · 07-02-2008 11:52pm

Now that's a bloody nice bike. I love Titanium. My HT is Titanium.

But actually racing not just finishing an Ironman in the Hawaiian heat and humidity (I was a slow pro) is bloody tough. As is running 400m... However, I still consider Ironman the toughest one-day-event. The toughest sport IMHO is the Tour de France. But we're getting OT.

Believe me, the 4 of us who set the record are racers, not finishers, at events tougher than an ironman. I was cycling with a bunch of my pals on road in wicklow a few weeks back, and we were dropping a guest cyclist we had with us on all the climbs. He was a sub-10 Ironman triathlete. None of the rest of us compete on road, or train for road cycling.

The Ironman is a long long long way off being the toughest one day event. There are tougher events than that closer to home, if you look for them. You should get out of the soft world of triathalon and try something a bit harder. The TDF is certainly a contender for being one of the toughest sports to do well in, but its not the only one.

ulif · 08-02-2008 7:35am

Enduro wrote: »

Believe me, the 4 of us who set the record are racers, not finishers, at events tougher than an ironman. I was cycling with a bunch of my pals on road in wicklow a few weeks back, and we were dropping a guest cyclist we had with us on all the climbs. He was a sub-10 Ironman triathlete. None of the rest of us compete on road, or train for road cycling.

The Ironman is a long long long way off being the toughest one day event. There are tougher events than that closer to home, if you look for them. You should get out of the soft world of triathalon and try something a bit harder. The TDF is certainly a contender for being one of the toughest sports to do well in, but its not the only one.

Mate

I just re-read my posts - I believe that at no point I questionned your fitness or anyone else's here on the board. If you got that impression though, please accept my apologies. That is not my intention.
However, this thread shouldn't be about who has the biggest balls (not literally).
My hopefully last comments about IM: I think we do agree indeed. Sub10 is not racing but merely a long training day for an elite triathlete. Racing starts somewhere below 9 hrs depending on the course.
And to be more precise: Ironman is the toughest event if you take the average percentage of rel.VO2Max needed over the time span of one day's daylight. However, that alone shows the difficulty to compare what is "tough". And it might also vary from person to person. What some might perceive as tough, is a walk in the park for others.

I'm sure you are a better MTBer than I am. You would probably be a great training partner.

Cheers
uli

joemc99 · 08-02-2008 9:54am

ulif wrote: »

Mate

I just re-read my posts - I believe that at no point I questionned your fitness or anyone else's here on the board. If you got that impression though, please accept my apologies. That is not my intention.
However, this thread shouldn't be about who has the biggest balls (not literally).
My hopefully last comments about IM: I think we do agree indeed. Sub10 is not racing but merely a long training day for an elite triathlete. Racing starts somewhere below 9 hrs depending on the course.
And to be more precise: Ironman is the toughest event if you take the average percentage of rel.VO2Max needed over the time span of one day's daylight. However, that alone shows the difficulty to compare what is "tough". And it might also vary from person to person. What some might perceive as tough, is a walk in the park for others.

I'm sure you are a better MTBer than I am. You would probably be a great training partner.

Cheers
uli

None of this matters, WW is a great day out, sub 10 hours is acheivable for most resonable MTBers........

Dunno what savage is, but that adventure event you did Enduro, 10 days with only 24 hours sleep, first 3 days without stopping, nuts, dont know how you did that......I'm into my challanges, but I like a nice hotel bed at the ned of the day.

Enduro · 09-02-2008 8:45pm

Sorry if I was coming across as being aggressive there Uli... Thats not my intention. I'm actually enjoying the discussion!

I've seen a lot of triathletes move into adventure racing in particular, and generally they don't seem to be able to handle the incresed challenges that it presents (including off road cycling). I've no doubt at all that you have the fitness necessary to do the WW cycle... what I'm trying to get across is that you shouldn't undersestimate the additonal challenges that being off road throws your way (and I have no idea whatsoever how good you are off road... I'm making assumptions based on what I've seen of other trialthetes which may not be fair) Quite often (Usually) an normally fit but highly skilled biker will be faster than a very-fit biker of more limited skills in an MTB race.

And to be more precise: Ironman is the toughest event if you take the average percentage of rel.VO2Max needed over the time span of one day's daylight. However, that alone shows the difficulty to compare what is "tough". And it might also vary from person to person. What some might perceive as tough, is a walk in the park for others.

I'm sure you are a better MTBer than I am. You would probably be a great training partner.

That's a new defintion of a one day race you have there... only racing in daylight, which straight away takes out a huge amount of difficulty regarding any 1 day race, since for the tougher athletes out there a day is actually 24 hours long

, and there are plenty of races which use up all that available time, making them considerably tougher than something as short and sprinty as an Ironman. Not everyone is so soft as to need to stop in darkness. There are biking races, running races, and adventure races which all use up the full 24 hours available in the day. There are examples of each of them either in or near Ireland too, so if you really want to see why an Ironman can be regarded as short and soft try giving one a go. Given your obviously extremely strong fitness and endurance background you should do rather well at them.

(And of course, riding the WW on a bike is a piece of cake in comparison to all of the above)

ulif · 09-02-2008 10:41pm

No probs, all good.
Yeah, it's a bit unfair to label me as "one of those triathletes" esp. here in Ireland where the level of racing is very low. My IM PB would be Irish record by far but that says nothing about my overall ability, only about the state of triathlon here. I am sure this will change though.
Also, I have a road racing background (I raced for the pre Gerolsteiner team as useless domestique

) and did some CC and Marathon MTBracing in the mid 90s (with minimal success:o).

Enduro wrote: »

I've seen a lot of triathletes move into adventure racing in particular, and generally they don't seem to be able to handle the incresed challenges that it presents (including off road cycling).

That's a new defintion of a one day race you have there... only racing in daylight, which straight away takes out a huge amount of difficulty regarding any 1 day race, since for the tougher athletes out there a day is actually 24 hours long , and there are plenty of races which use up all that available time, making them considerably tougher than something as short and sprinty as an Ironman. Not everyone is so soft as to need to stop in darkness. There are biking races, running races, and adventure races which all use up the full 24 hours available in the day. There are examples of each of them either in or near Ireland too, so if you really want to see why an Ironman can be regarded as short and soft try giving one a go. Given your obviously extremely strong fitness and endurance background you should do rather well at them.

When other factors than pure physical fitness come into play, such as sleep depriviation and the ability to tolerate huge amounts of food, these events are of course very tough but for different reasons.
I've done a 24hr road race when I was 19 - it was fun but I've seen it's not for me. Like Joe, I need my challenges but prefer a warm bed at the end of the day. Also, sleep depriviation and very cold conditions for days during my time as paratrooper gave me some lasting memories. Times I definitely don't miss.

I'm yet to see an adventure racer being competitive in Ironman. The other way round, for many leisure triathletes adventure racing is the logic step up after finishing an Ironman. Very few have a chance at being competitive at racing Ironman.
IOW: it's two totally different animals. You would kill me in any adventure race (I would probably end up puking half way through and then fall asleep) and I would long be on my way home after an IM while you would be still out there shuffling the marathon.

Back on topic: shouldn't we all team up to do the WW in one day? No record chasing, just for fun? That'd be a neat thing.

cheers
uli

Enduro · 10-02-2008 11:53pm

Now I'm afraid to cycle the WW with you

.

Actually, I would be on for cycling the WW with you at some stage, but given your backgound I reckon I'd just be trailing after you holding you up!(But I could guarantee that I'd know where I was going, and that I would make it from start to finish). One of my own little personal goals is to get the running record for the WW sometime within the next year or two (That record is a bit more official).

And on the off topic stuff...
I'd be quite surprised if an adventure racer would make a competitive IM triathlete myself (but would think they'd all finish no problems once they survived the swim). Generally adventure racers are more endurance oriented, and the IM is a speed event (In an AR world context its an out and out sprint). So yes, I agree with you that they are two different animals, in the same way that the 100 metres and the marathon are two different animals.

When other factors than pure physical fitness come into play, such as sleep depriviation and the ability to tolerate huge amounts of food, these events are of course very tough but for different reasons.

In the context of adventure racing all that all definitely comes into play in a big way. However in something like a 24 hour running race fundamentally its all about physical fitness in a similar way to the IM. I would guess more so in fact, since there is no switching of muscle groups in the race. The physical requirements are so demanding that very few people can contemplate finishing these events, never mind being competitive!

ulif · 11-02-2008 12:42pm

Enduro wrote: »

Now I'm afraid to cycle the WW with you .

Actually, I would be on for cycling the WW with you at some stage, but given your backgound I reckon I'd just be trailing after you holding you up

No need to be afraid given my current off road skills. They come and go because I have been riding offroads more in bouts during the years than continously. And it's been a while...

What's the running record for WW? I assume somewhere around 12 hrs if any of the fine Irish runners have tried?

chrs
uli

Peterx · 11-02-2008 3:45pm

Hiya,

Simon Walters holds the running record in about 18 hours until Eoin gets around to it

The cycling record is 12hours and 4minutes and we would not have finished without the great support given us by Jane+Graham+Campervan numerous times en route. We got lost once, had one puncture and stopped loads of times for good food in the campervan. It's a long day out and you have to pace yourself.
Joe or Robin or loads of lads could do it much quicker then our time but as Joe says the last 30km (we went south) is boring boring boring...
Much more fun would be to WW it to Glenmalure with various side trips for the craic, stay the night, and WW it back home the next day.
cheers,
pd

ulif · 11-02-2008 9:24pm

Peterx wrote: »

Hiya,

Simon Walters holds the running record in about 18 hours until Eoin gets around to it

that doesn't seem too fast for 132k...

Enduro · 11-02-2008 11:40pm

Two punctures Peter! I just got mine about 100 metres from the lunch stop and fixed it while ye ate all the food!

As for the running record... relatively few people could run 132km in one sitting. And then there is the major factor with the WW...hills, followed by hills, with a few more hills afterwards. Over distance, in my experience, your climbing speed detierorates relatively badly compared to flat speed, and descending speed can collapse completely.

Simon isn't one of the fine Irish runners and never will be, since he is doomed to be a Welshman for eternity.

ulif · 12-02-2008 9:53am

Enduro wrote: »

As for the running record... relatively few people could run 132km in one sitting. And then there is the major factor with the WW...hills, followed by hills, with a few more hills afterwards.

Sure, the hills, but ~7.5k/h isn't much. Not that I could do it, don't get me wrong.

If someone can run the Western States (100 miles!) in less than 16 hrs or ~10k/h...

Enduro · 12-02-2008 11:30pm

I've no idea what the profile of the western states is... but I do know what the profile of the WW is, and it doesn't lend itself to speed. Let me put it this way. I've run a few marathons. I've done 2:41 on the flat (ish) over the 42km. I've even done 2:52 on a very very hilly marathon (Snowdon). There is a 44Km race on the wicklow way (the wicklow ultra) that I've run several times. Mostly I manage it around 3:35ish. The fastest I've ever run it (my very best run anywhere ever) was 3:21. So, as you can see, from my experience there is a huge loss of speed in running WW style hills. Now bear in mind that I'm a very experienced hill runner, and an international ultra-runner, so I'm probably one of the best equiped people in the country to do that particular race, but still the the effective loss of speed is obvious.

For the record I've done 100 miles in about 17 hours myself, on the way to doing 219km in 24 hours, all on a track. With all this experience behind me, and knowing Simon's running abilities, I'd say a competitive world class ultra-runner might be able for the WW in about 12 hours, once they could cope with the hills. I haven't worked out the maths of any of this, just instinctive thinking.

ulif · 13-02-2008 7:49am

Yeah, that was my thought, 12hrs seem a lot more realistic than 18. Having run neither WW nor WesternStates, from what I gather they are pretty similar (although you have to add heat at WS).

Well, don't get me started about 24hr track running - you guys are sick!

ryan_sherlock · 14-02-2008 7:02pm

I know the topic has moved back a bit but as far as unoffical kilmashogue records go I can also lay a claim... Did an 11:56 on my Epic (with light light tires) in August 07 (http://ryan.sherlock.googlepages.com/kilmashoguehillclimb and http://ryansherlock.blogspot.com/2007/08/weekend-of-hill-climbs.html). Was a perfect day - it's hard to be that quick at the moment due to all the fresh stone on the last kilometer - I just sucks out all your speed.

As for the WW in one go, I really wanted to give it a go last year and try to do an 8 hour ish run... Getting a weekend without racing and reasonable weather (and the motivation) was the reason I didn't try last year... Maybe this year. I did Marley to Glenmalure in about 4 hours one beautiful summers day last year - a nice spin.

Blackgrape · 29-02-2008 10:28am

hust bumping this to the first page as I found an incredibly enjoyable read. A couple of mates and I are in the preliminary stages planning stages of a WW hike.

joemc99 · 29-02-2008 4:46pm

ryan_sherlock wrote: »

I know the topic has moved back a bit but as far as unoffical kilmashogue records go I can also lay a claim... Did an 11:56 on my Epic (with light light tires) in August 07 (http://ryan.sherlock.googlepages.com/kilmashoguehillclimb and http://ryansherlock.blogspot.com/2007/08/weekend-of-hill-climbs.html). Was a perfect day - it's hard to be that quick at the moment due to all the fresh stone on the last kilometer - I just sucks out all your speed.

As for the WW in one go, I really wanted to give it a go last year and try to do an 8 hour ish run... Getting a weekend without racing and reasonable weather (and the motivation) was the reason I didn't try last year... Maybe this year. I did Marley to Glenmalure in about 4 hours one beautiful summers day last year - a nice spin.

Amazing what can be done with a bit of photoshoping. ;-)

Best unofficial time to be sure, how did you do that on your own, mad I tells ya.

ulif · 26-03-2008 7:51pm

Enduro wrote: »

In the context of adventure racing all that all definitely comes into play in a big way. However in something like a 24 hour running race fundamentally its all about physical fitness in a similar way to the IM. I would guess more so in fact, since there is no switching of muscle groups in the race. The physical requirements are so demanding that very few people can contemplate finishing these events, never mind being competitive!

Am giving this thread a bump for the multisport crowd.

Richard Ussher from NZ has won the coast-to-coast again this year and raced Ironman NZ three weeks later. From what I can gather he's a bit of a legend in the sport.
He got his ass handed in this smaller IM but not nearly as much as expected.

He later said that he finds Ironman physically tougher and c2c mentally.
There's a long interview with him on ironmantalk podcast where he goes through both races and compares IM to Multisport.

http://ironmantalk.com/Podcast.html

cheers
uli

Enduro · 11-09-2008 12:03am

Just in case anyone was interested in some of the many and varied contents of this thread....

I'll be making an attempt to break the record for running the Wicklow way this weekend. If I manage it I think I can safely say I'll be the first person to hold the running and (joint) cycling records on the route at the same time. Brief details are here.

If anyone wants to cycle along with me while I'm running they're more than welcome

ryan_sherlock · 11-09-2008 12:29am

Thats funny, I was thinking of going for the bike record some time soon. If there was a dry(ish) weekend in October. I'm thinking 8 hours or so... (That's me guessing based on riding from Dublin to Glenamalure a few times)

trinewbie · 11-09-2008 9:33am

Fair Play to both of you...Best of luck this weekend Eoin.

I never got round to even looking at giving it a go this summer in the end, between one thing and another (mainly the weather and fear of schlomp) it never seemed to suit

ulif · 11-09-2008 3:00pm

Enduro wrote: »

If anyone wants to cycle along with me while I'm running they're more than welcome

I would join you running for parts of the trail but I have moved to NYC since.

Good luck to you and keep blowing your own trumpet, noone else will do it for you (I learned that saying in Ireland).

Cheers to Dublin

uli

Enduro · 11-09-2008 11:56pm

Good to hear from you Uli! Hope you're kicking ass in NYC

Trinewbie... I know how you feel! I've been meaning to do this run for so many years now I can't remember when I first thought about doing it. The good thing is that the WW never gets too schlompy compared to a lot of other trails.

Ryan... you're going to set an amazing time when you go for it. If anyone can do it in 8 hours then you can (especially being Irish MTB marathon champ!!). Hopefully I can get the running record so I can have a brief interlude of hoding both before you smash the biking record to pieces. And wish Mel luck for the Ras Na mBan.

Enduro · 14-09-2008 11:32pm

And just to update....

I broke the running record with a time of 13:46:01. That shows how soft the cycling record is at 12:04. Go put the thing out of its misery Ryan

DirkVoodoo · 14-09-2008 11:59pm

Wow, fair play, dunno how you did it! I get bored running for more than 100 metres (or without a ball at my feet).

No sign of an ipod or anything, I would have gone mad.

ryan_sherlock · 15-09-2008 11:12am

Well done Eoin, that time is shockingly fast! Mel and I were talking about how fast we think the run could be done - your faster than we guessed! I was out on the bike for a chunk of Saturday and thinking how lucky you were with the day.

For the bike - I'm thinking maybe the weekend of October 17/18. I've a race on the 5th, then a bike show (or race...) the week after. If the weather was crap, I don't think I could get myself to do it though.

I'm looking forward to reading your report.

ryan_sherlock · 18-09-2008 9:26pm

Actually - does anyone have a GPX (or similar) track for the Wicklow Way. I've ridden to Glenmalure a few times so that bit is easy - I would just like a base trail so that as I get tired and onto trails/roads I don't know, I don't have to look out for signs.

Enduro · 18-09-2008 10:55pm

aww Ryan, its very easy to follow! Sure you'll be finished before you get tired anyway! I only really started to tire after about 10 hours.

ryan_sherlock · 18-09-2008 11:00pm

hehe,

yeah - yeah - but what about when your bombing along at 30kph - sign posts tend to just fly by you... (I have a history of missing sign posts...)

ryan_sherlock · 08-10-2008 9:55am

So I'm thinking about doing this tomorrow. The weather seems okay (although a 30kph headwind will annoy me) and I think I have a support person to help me out.

A few things people could possibly help me with - it seems Marley Park opens at 10am, is it possible to get around that with a bike?

Also, I hear cycling is not allowed in the Park (as all Dublin parks). I assume walking the bike would be fine though?

I'll confirm later today if I'm going to do it with rough time lines if anyone wanted to come out and time...

What do you think, do I need an 'offical' timer? Will be taking my Garmin with me.

Peterx · 08-10-2008 2:12pm

Good Man Ryan.

We started at about 7am from the sign and cycled through the park and just lifted the bikes over the locked gates.
Cycling slowly and considerately through Marlay should be enough, you are after all on a mission:)

Be careful of that tricky wrong turn near a cowshed in Carlow....

We had an official timer team of Jane and Graham Porter - couldn'y have done it without them, Melanie could start a stopwatch for you although as with most of these things it is all trust based.

cheers,
Peter

ryan_sherlock · 08-10-2008 2:58pm

Thanks Peter.

I wouldn't mind an earlier start and be less in a race against the sun. I had a long race at the weekend and don't really know how far I can push my body. I have been in 'off-season' mode the last few days eating everything in front me me.

I'm looking forward to it in a twisted sorta way.

blorg · 08-10-2008 3:22pm

Good luck with that Ryan, let us know how you do (photos would be good too.) Here's hoping the spectacular weather today holds up for you.

ryan_sherlock · 08-10-2008 3:26pm

Yeah - hoping for okay weather. The headwind sucks a bit...

Mel will be taking photos at the start and end and any other points we meet along the way. Like most events I do, there will be a full report on my blog shortly afterwards, although I'm still one race behind.

(Blog is: www.ryansherlock.com)

ryan_sherlock · 09-10-2008 9:28am

I'm all ready to head round to Marley Park in the next while - probably leaving there at 10:10am.

Mel will be updating my Twitter Account with progress as the day goes by on: http://twitter.com/ryan_sherlock

(am I nuts...)

Raam · 09-10-2008 9:30am

ryan_sherlock wrote: »

I'm all ready to head round to Marley Park in the next while - probably leaving there at 10:10am.

Mel will be updating my Twitter Account with progress as the day goes by on: http://twitter.com/ryan_sherlock

(am I nuts...)

I hope it works out for you, but I think bad weather is on the way

http://www.met.ie/

Windy today with rain extending eastwards.

Hopefully you can beat the rain

Good luck.

TinyExplosions · 09-10-2008 9:34am

Bon Chance mon ami!

Hope it doesn't get to wet out there

09-10-2008 9:36am

Raam wrote: »

I hope it works out for you, but I think bad weather is on the way

http://www.met.ie/

Hopefully you can beat the rain Good luck.

Hrm. Hope it stays ok, looks like nice out from my desk at the moment

ryan_sherlock · 09-10-2008 10:16pm

Just back home to Dublin now.

Did the complete thing in 8:17:19 in some very tricky conditions. Everyone told me that the last 50k was easy - it was the hardest! If you were not on a road (which was nice) you where on some slompy path. It was so so wet! The rain didn't bother me, the soaked ground did!

I'll be writing a report about it some time next week.

Man, I'm tired...

studiorat · 09-10-2008 10:27pm

Hardy buck.

blorg · 09-10-2008 10:42pm

Jesus, well done Ryan. That is a new record if I am not mistaken?

Enduro · 09-10-2008 11:24pm

Oh yes indeed it is. The old one was 12:04. So thats the record well and truely shattered (just like Ryan at the moment I would imagine

)

Well done Ryan. Thats a great time. I was up running in the Hills near Dublin this evening and the wind was screaming in the wrong direction, from your point of view, so it must have made for very hard conditions on the higher sections out there today. Sounds like things have got considerably murkier since my run along the route. Welcome to the club

scottreynolds · 10-10-2008 10:19am

ryan_sherlock wrote: »

Just back home to Dublin now.

Did the complete thing in 8:17:19 in some very tricky conditions. Everyone told me that the last 50k was easy - it was the hardest! If you were not on a road (which was nice) you where on some slompy path. It was so so wet! The rain didn't bother me, the soaked ground did!

I'll be writing a report about it some time next week.

Man, I'm tired...

Awesome -- well done that man. i had great fun following you online.... via twitter. Great updates.... infact all the twitter information tired me out so instead of a tough turbo session last night I took it off in you honour -- being that you were tired in all -- thanks

Chips Lovell · 10-10-2008 10:29am

Wel done Ryan. You did it in that time and were posting updates on Twitter???

Raam · 10-10-2008 10:31am

el tonto wrote: »

Wel done Ryan. You did it in that time and were posting updates on Twitter???

I think someone else was posting the updates.

Chips Lovell · 10-10-2008 10:32am

Raam wrote: »

I think someone else was posting the updates.

OK, he seems slightly more human now. I stress the word slightly.

scottreynolds · 10-10-2008 10:35am

Ant testing for CERA, EPO, blood doping required here....

....

Cycling the wicklow Way

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