Aircoach Ballsbridge new route from 29 October 2013

AlekSmart · 14-04-2013 8:52am #1

bk wrote: »

Aircoach 4pm ex-Dublin today full, about 20 people left behind, given tickets for the next coach.

Aircoach 5pm ex-Dublin, full again, about 25 people left behind, given tickets for the next coach.

Aircoach 6pm ex-Dublin, two coaches come, both full or very close to it.

Obviously a very busy day, but looks like Aircoach to Cork is doing really well, if they keep this up they will need to get one or two double deckers!!

BTW the 3 Aircoaches I saw heading to Cork were all Jonckheeres.

The chap boarding passengers was recommending people book online in future. That is good advice, but it would be much easier if you could book the same day, rather then just 5pm the day before.

Dublin Coach to Limerick, saw two services, both completely full.

Checking online, it seems the 6:30 GoBE to Cork was sold out too.

I really can't believe GoBE cancelled the 5:30 to Cork service, it must be the busiest service every day, makes no sense at all. Fair enough going, bi-hourly for the rest, but you would think they would keep this service. Having a service at 4:30 and 6:30 only and leaving 5 and 6 (right in the peak) to Aircoach seems crazy.

Anyway good to see all the coach companies doing well.

Whilst it is good to see the upswing in these services,it is necessary also to understand that there is considerable re-entrenchment afoot.

I understand an announcement is imminent from Aircoach on some further curtailment/realignment of it's core Airport Express services.

I would speculate that the intention is to divert resources from the core services on to the far more sustainable Express Services.

There is little doubt in my mind,that the continuing freeze on DSP Free Travel Scheme payments at 2010 levels is now percolating down and,in no small way,providing a certain impetus for operators to make decisions on a commercial basis.

It's not all bad however,as any reduction in the core Aircoach service,could provide BAC with reason and to reintroduce a 746 style route linking South Eastern Dublin with the Airport.

However,such a route would most certainly have to recognize the term "Semi-EXPRESS" or even "EXPRESS" for it's North Side leg,and therein lies the issue....;)

devnull · 14-04-2013 9:14am

The Ballsbridge/Donnybrook route is being withdrawn soon from what I have heard, but that is hardly surprising since that route only has about 4-5 unique stops and hasn't been doing as well as the Leopardstown service for a while as people will have seen.

I guess you can say that the taxi drivers have won the war on that route, so any passengers who took a taxi from the Ballsbridge stop should pat themselves on the back, if they come on here and moan about the withdrawal they are hypocrites.

If a new DB route is to go ahead and share any ground with an Aircoach operation post the revision it would have to be a commercial route you'd think else there would be issues that are created. However if that is the case they'd have a higher fare, which would once again put them at the mercy of taxi drivers.

Personally I don't see how they would get a license unless it was only for the stops that are surrendered by Aircoach and for ones already serviced by Dublin Bus, perhaps as a spur of the current 747.

A lot of the stop congestion is simply caused by too many stops for DB city services being close together in my view, four stops between Suffolk Street and Parnell Square is nuts for services and is a major contributing factor to this, as is illogical spread of departing services where some stops are overloaded and others have barely anything stopping there.

SandyfordGuy · 14-04-2013 12:54pm

According to the Aircoach booking engine, the Ballsbridge - Donnybrook - City Center - Dublin Airport service is going to have it's last day of service on the 20th April 2013.

From this date the following stops will no longer be served
Merrion Square North
The Schoolhouse Hotel
Pembroke Road
Merrion Road
Simmonscourt Road

The other stops on the route will not be effected, since they are also covered by the Leopardstown - Sandyford - Donnybrook - City Center - Airport route which will continue to operate every 15 minutes as far as I'm aware.

This in essence means the frequency for Donnybrook - City Center - Dublin Airport will be down to every 15 minutes (4 buses an hour) from every 10 (6 buses an hour) as it no longer has the Ballsbridge services which operated twice an hour to supplement it.

There is no official news article on the Aircoach website yet, but the booking engine message is self explanatory I think.

bk · 14-04-2013 1:19pm

While unfortunate, seems like a sensible and relatively low impact change.

Hopefully it will mean we will see an increase in intercity services.

devnull · 14-04-2013 1:26pm

I would think there is not enough demand for a dedicated City Center / Ballsbridge service these days whereas before there was. Now it's just too short to get the numbers on it to be economically viable in addition to the other route. Whenever I've seen them around the city, the Leopardstown always seemed better loaded than the Ballsbridge.

As the Leopardstown route is longer (therefore more potential customers) and serves the majority of ground that the Ballsbridge one does, it's far more sensible to pull the Ballsbridge one back, than the other way around.

What is for certain though is this will leave them with a number of surplus coaches, it will be interesting to see if anything will leave the fleet or they are redeployed elsewhere.

Victor · 14-04-2013 3:36pm

For clarity, the message when you attempt to book is "Sorry. Services on the Ballsbridge/Donnybrook route will be withdrawn from 21st April 2013. Please adjust your journey details and try again. "

devnull · 19-04-2013 9:02am

Just one day before the last journey is run and still nothing on the Aircoach website under Latest News or the Timetable page itself which is quite simply disgraceful for passengers who may well rely on the Ballsbridge part of the route who are not being given adequate notice.

They seem to think everyone will book online and find out that way but for me that is not really that feasible or the case so if they don't change the timetables on the stops, a large number of people are not going to know and get pretty annoyed and rightly so since in my view it is not acceptable.

I would hope that the NTA will require in future an at least 5 working day notice of any withdrawal of service or significant timetable change for license applications and renewals, and not just for the CIE companies like they do now since passengers deserve to be given adequate notice.

Once again Aircoach get the simple things wrong which take a few seconds to sort. They still haven't updated the Cork timetable with the new service that was added over a week ago now. True they have a news article announcing a new service, but it doesn't say when it starts, so some people may believe ti hasn't started yet.

For all the good things Aircoach do, this communication and web-site stuff has been going on for far too long and really needs to be sorted. It's basic stuff and shows a lack of customer focus, which is astounding when a company is struggling, you'd think they'd want to do everything to turn around the losses of recent years.

SandyfordGuy · 19-04-2013 3:02pm

I'm sure it will all be done in good time, there are still another two days to go and besides had you thought of checking the bus stops before coming up with that remark, maybe there are signs already there?

devnull · 19-04-2013 3:20pm

Well considering the Cork Timetable hasn't been updated 11 days later I think I'll have to disagree with you on that one. If someone really did bother to write out something and print it out on the stops then is it really that hard to copy and paste it into a news article on the website.

The Ballsbridge service is mentioned on a huge number of pages on that website, now considering the large number of broken links, outdated information, bad grammar, contradicting information, duplicate pages all doing the same thing but some more up to date than others, I shudder to think what it will look like if the Ballsbridge service cancellation can't be handled properly.

I'd love to see Aircoach prove me wrong, and go and simply erase every mention of the Ballsbridge service on their website after it's gone, but judging by their track record I'm sure it'll still be mentioned months later.

The NTA really would have my support to be able to levy fines to operators who do not give sufficient notice of a cancellation of a service.

Victor · 19-04-2013 3:54pm

I spoke to Aircoach - 21 April appears to be the last date for which they are taking bookings. They will be continuing to operate the route for the moment.

I'm sure the agent at the airport said April 29 to me this morning - he didn't know why there was nothing on the website.

devnull · 19-04-2013 4:00pm

The NTA Journey Planner website shows the last day of running as being the 21st of April with nothing appearing from Ballsbridge after that day. So that would be from licensing data yes so should be correct?

However if you try and book for the 21st April it says that you can't as services will be withdrawn that day so that suggests the 20th April is the last day that the service will run so just one more day.

The fact that someone at the airport is now suggesting the 29th April means we now have three different dates, which just makes it even more confusing. If it will run until then without on line booking then the error should just say that!

The fact that the staff at the airport don't know really says it all. It's almost like internal communication is as bad as external. There really needs to be someone to take charge of such things, whoever changed the booking system should write the article!

munchkin_utd · 22-04-2013 8:18am

devnull wrote: »

<snip>
For all the good things Aircoach do, this communication and web-site stuff has been going on for far too long and really needs to be sorted. It's basic stuff and shows a lack of customer focus, which is astounding when a company is struggling, you'd think they'd want to do everything to turn around the losses of recent years.

I agree 100%

For an airport service where you are looking to get to catch a flight (which all going well) leaves at a specific published departure time, Air coach are virtually unusable from the city centre for early morning flights leaving you with no option but to get with Dublin Bus or get a taxi.

They have no timetable, ever.
Not at day nor not even at night or early morning when there is no traffic or congestion to deal with.
And when you request the times for the morning they will reply (if they actually do reply) that its "roughly" every hour.

So.
For a flight departing at say 7am which means you want to be at the airport at 6am, at how early an ungodly an hour must I stand waiting (in the rain and cold) for the aircoach in Dublin City centre?
Is 5.30am ok? Is 5am ok? Or should it be 4.30am that you begin the wait for a bus that has no departure time?

Who knows because even aircoach havent a clue when their busses go.

devnull · 22-04-2013 9:01am

I think it's a double edged sword for them on the City Center, I'd say if they gave exact times it would allow taxis to know when the bus is approaching, which may impact them even more as taxis would know when it is, and it isn't safe to poach as we've seen on the Ballinteer route when a group of taxis runs about 2-3 minutes in front and mop up all the passengers.

I do agree though that waiting in the early morning is pretty random since there is no intermediate times ever, even a rough guide would be better, such as saying a time then buses every 15 minutes until another time then every 20 minutes etc than the current one which is useless like you say to most people, but this is also not helped by a few other things on their site about the city center services, check this out.

http://www.aircoach.ie/table.routes.dublin.citycentre.php
(every 10 minutes to and from airport)

http://www.aircoach.ie/table.routes.ballsbridge.php
(Every 30 minutes from airport, 15 minutes to airport)

There are inconsistencies like that all over the Aircoach site on many pages which have been done to death on here that really could be easily sorted out if someone had the attention to detail and customer focus but that website lacks a lot in that regard and emails with criticism tend not to get answered. For a company that is making a loss you'd think they'd want to turn this around by doing the simple things first which do not cost money.

As for the Ballsbridge route? Well you can't book it anymore since the "Sorry. Services on the Ballsbridge/Donnybrook route will be withdrawn from 21st April 2013. Please adjust your journey details and try again." message occurs, but no information on the Aircoach site, the timetables are still there, no news article or anything. It will lead to confusion about if the service is still running as not everyone will try and book online at the end of the day.

That speaks volumes about the communication the company has with it's passengers that such confusion was even allowed to develop in the first place.

SandyfordGuy · 22-04-2013 12:23pm

Site has been updated, the last day is the 28th now.

devnull · 22-04-2013 12:33pm

Having turned passengers away for around seven days, by allowing the booking engine to tell people that the service would be WITHDRAWN as of the weekend and they could not book tickets because it wouldn't exist, only to then a day after the service 'finishes' to then allow bookings for the seven days the system claimed the service would not run for is a strange turn of events indeed.

It is this style of communication, confusion and lack of clarity that really sums up in a nutshell what is happening in the company when it cones to communication with customers. If this was always going to be the case that it closed on this date, why did the booking system say otherwise? Why not say the correct date? Or was it simply the fact that nobody tested the booking engine before they made the changes?

Of course, had they placed a news article up on their site rather than just playing with the booking system which it seems was either set incorrectly, not tested or someone simply changed their mind, this confusion could all have been dealt with when this thread was first posted here, but nope, as per usual, that didn't happen.

How long before the next confusing issue crops up with something similar because of confusing or incorrect information given out on their website?

Victor · 23-04-2013 11:10am

http://www.aircoach.ie/news.article.php?ID=386

Statement regarding Ballsbridge to Dublin Airport Route
23rd April 2013

Aircoach Customer Notice
Temporary Suspension of services on Ballsbridge Route
Effective Monday 29th April 2013.

It is with regret that Aircoach has to advise customers of the temporary suspension of services to the following stops on its Ballsbridge route with effect from Monday 29th April, 2013, until further notice.

In conjunction with this change we will be increasing the frequency on our Dublin Airport – Leopardstown service up to every 15 minutes and this service will continue to operate 24 hrs per day.

Aircoach customers who currently use the affected stops in Ballsbridge will be able to use alternative stops on our Leopardstown or Greystones/Dalkey service as outlined below.

Ballsbridge Stops suspended 29/4/13 Alternative Stops Leopardstown Route - services up to every 15 mins Alternative Stops Greystones / Dalkey Route - services every 30 mins
Merrion Square Dawson Street n/a
The School House Hotel Leeson Street Bridge Sean Moore Road
Pembroke Road Burlington Hotel, Leeson Street Upper Strand Rd / Gilford Ave Junction
Merrion Road Hampton Hotel, Morehampton Rd, N11 Strand Rd / Gilford Ave Junction
Simmonscourt Road Donnybrook Road, Opp Old Wesley Rugby Club Strand Rd / Gilford Ave Junction

Any customer with a ticket for the above stops in Ballsbridge for travel after the 28th April 2013 will be able to use their ticket on either the Leopardstown or Greystones/Dalkey services, or should this not be a suitable alternative will be able to receive a refund on the unused portion of their ticket by sending it to Aircoach, Airport Business Park, Dublin Airport, and their refund will be processed.

This will be a temporary suspension of the route and we are currently assessing the options for the stops impacted by this change.

Aircoach routes from, Leopardstown, Greystones, Dalkey / Killiney and Cork to Dublin Airport and Belfast to Dublin are not affected by this decision.

We would like to thank our loyal customers for their support of this service and apologise for any inconvenience this decision may cause. Should you have any queries or questions please do not hesitate to contact a member of the Aircoach Team at info@aircoach.ie or by calling 01 8447118 between 08:00 and 17:30 Monday to Sunday.

Aircoach Team.

devnull · 23-04-2013 5:12pm

You can guess that whoever wrote that article isn't the usual person who does the articles on the website. It's too well written, clear and thought out compared to the normal stuff and written in a commercially sensitive way.

I'd be surprised if it's temporary though, I'd say that part may be positive spin unless there is some realignment of services in future, the existing service obviously was no longer working the way it was.

bikeman1 · 23-04-2013 5:33pm

I would imagine that some of the hotels in D4 which the Ballsbridge route serves will be pretty annoyed that their hotel no longer has a direct service to their door which would have been an important factor for people booking into non city centre hotels.

Good to see some proper communication from Aircoach for once.

bk · 23-04-2013 5:47pm

bikeman1 wrote: »

I would imagine that some of the hotels in D4 which the Ballsbridge route serves will be pretty annoyed that their hotel no longer has a direct service to their door which would have been an important factor for people booking into non city centre hotels.

Well then perhaps those hotels should offer to part finance this service. Would benefit both Aircoach and the hotels.

Airocach could carry people with bookings for these hotels for free. Would be better if Aircoach was also allowed to drop off and pick up people going to and from these hotels.

dowlingm · 23-04-2013 9:53pm

bk wrote: »

Well then perhaps those hotels should offer to part finance this service. Would benefit both Aircoach and the hotels.

Airocach could carry people with bookings for these hotels for free. Would be better if Aircoach was also allowed to drop off and pick up people going to and from these hotels.

They could organise something like the Toronto Airport Express perhaps. Mind you the distance from the airport is more like 28km in Toronto than the 15km in Dublin.

coylemj · 23-04-2013 11:25pm

bk wrote: »

Well then perhaps those hotels should offer to part finance this service. Would benefit both Aircoach and the hotels.

Airocach could carry people with bookings for these hotels for free. Would be better if Aircoach was also allowed to drop off and pick up people going to and from these hotels.

Or the hotels could accept an Aircoach ticket from the guest at check-in and deduct the fare from the room tariff and give them a voucher for the trip to the airport when they're checking out.

Anyone could print a bogus reservation confirmation e-mail and use it to travel for free inbound on the Aircoach.

Victor · 23-04-2013 11:32pm

bk wrote: »

Well then perhaps those hotels should offer to part finance this service. Would benefit both Aircoach and the hotels.

Airocach could carry people with bookings for these hotels for free. Would be better if Aircoach was also allowed to drop off and pick up people going to and from these hotels.

I get the impression this does happen somewhat in the bus industry - the developers in Royal Canal Park paid Dublin Bus to extend the 120.

ScottSF · 11-06-2013 5:12pm

Add me to the list of very disappointed AirCoach customers who regret to see the Ballsbridge route eliminated. They told me via Twitter they are looking into alternative options to serve these stops but have offered no addition details. You can AND SHOULD email them with your feedback so they hear from regular customers.

info@aircoach.ie

I have to believe the many popular hotels in the area want to continue to say they are served by AirCoach. Like the Grand Canal Hotel, Schoolhouse, Ballsbridge (D4) hotels, the ones near the RDS, and the various B&Bs in the area. Do you think they are lobbying behind the scenes?

I can only hope they add these stops to another route or the Dublin city-run Airport Bus adds a Ballsbridge route. With the RDS and Aviva Stadium plus tons of tourist friendly hotels in the area, it demands better airport access. Most major European cities offer good transport options especially to a convention centre and stadium that draws in tourists. It is a shame that Dublin visitors (and locals too) are forced to take taxis to the airport. It isn't only economics but also for comfort, WiFi, and a green option.

ScottSF · 11-06-2013 5:18pm

One more thing to add...

I agree with the comments about taxi drivers taking AirCoach passengers away as being part of the cause. However I have to say that AirCoach (Ballsbridge) was definitely more frequent a few years ago and the posted schedule was reasonably accurate.

If they posted more accurate stop times like most airport bus services in Europe do (I was just in Toulouse France and their airport bus had a fixed schedule that was adhered to), people would know when to wait and not be lured by taxis. They harmed their own business by reducing the number of buses serving the Ballsbridge route and having limited accountability. I took taxis many times in the past year after waiting and having no clear evidence that a bus was eventually on its way.

I do like AirCoach and wished they would find a way to make it work, perhaps with the financial support of Dublin Tourism and the local hotels since it is an important part of the tourism industry and infrastructure. This is the year of The Gathering and it is sad to see these welcome services disappear.

bk · 11-06-2013 5:57pm

Real Time Passenger Information displays tied to GPS on their coaches should sort the timetable/schedule problem and it is rumoured to be coming.

As for hotels lobbying them, I'm sure nothing sort of actual money from the hotels to help subsidise the service would make a difference.

devnull · 11-06-2013 8:11pm

The trouble with a scheduled timetable is that taxi drivers then know exactly what time the coach is due and that leads to them poaching even more passengers. This is what killed the Ballinteer route.

The fact is that apart from five stops, all of the other stops on the Ballsbridge route are on the Leopardstown route and the ones that have been omitted did not have the loads to justify their own unique service. The new set up cuts duplication and ends a route that was apparently hemorrhaging money, even before the frequency was reduced to every 30 minutes last year.

ScottSF · 11-06-2013 8:24pm

It seems that the Grand Canal Dock, one of the fastest growing residential and commercial areas is really not served by an efficient airport transport link. Now if Dart went there we'd have a winner.

I think that if the 5 Ballsbridge stops mentioned above, you could add in 2 more stops by the Grand Canal Dock. The new Marker Hotel also just opened in addition to the Maldron. Plus the Ballsbridge route helped pick up excess passengers near the tourism office and O'Connell street along the way. Or simply adjust the Leopardstown route to stop near the Ballsbridge Hotels instead of on Lesson Street which has few hotels and tourists nearby. Or what about serving Ranelagh and Rathmines - how can these popular areas to live be missed as well?

Perhaps the boom times are gone but if you can run multiple hourly services all the way to Cork for €10, you could make a profit on the €8 airport run from Dublin 4.
For example the AirLink in Edinburgh runs every 10 minutes for only £3.50
http://www.flybybus.com/

LXFlyer · 11-06-2013 8:59pm

Grand Canal Dock has the Airlink the other side of the Samuel Beckett Bridge. It's barely a 5 minute walk away!!

xper · 12-06-2013 12:28am

If the 'temporary' suspension of the Ballsbridge stops is genuinely to allow for a possible rethink of routes, I would guess that Aircoach are considering diverting the Greystones and/or Dalkey routes through Ballsbridge and then via Clanwilliam Place - Grand Canal Street - Macken Street - Samuel Beckett Bridge and rejoin the existing route for the O2/Gibson/Luas stop.

That would drop three stops from the existing route: Sandymount (Strand Road - Near Parade Ave Jct), Sandymount (Strand Road / Gilford Ave Jct) and Sean Moore Road (Irish Glass Site). Most customers for the Sandymount stops wold be just as well catered for by stops on Merrion Road and Northumberland Rd. The good people of Irishtown might feel a bit stiffed but I am going to guess that numbers using that stop are a tiny fraction of the stops currently without service.

devnull · 29-10-2013 2:38pm

xper wrote: »

If the 'temporary' suspension of the Ballsbridge stops is genuinely to allow for a possible rethink of routes, I would guess that Aircoach are considering diverting the Greystones and/or Dalkey routes through Ballsbridge and then via Clanwilliam Place - Grand Canal Street - Macken Street - Samuel Beckett Bridge and rejoin the existing route for the O2/Gibson/Luas stop.

That would drop three stops from the existing route: Sandymount (Strand Road - Near Parade Ave Jct), Sandymount (Strand Road / Gilford Ave Jct) and Sean Moore Road (Irish Glass Site). Most customers for the Sandymount stops wold be just as well catered for by stops on Merrion Road and Northumberland Rd. The good people of Irishtown might feel a bit stiffed but I am going to guess that numbers using that stop are a tiny fraction of the stops currently without service.

You had a great idea it seems, since they are going to do very similar.

From Wednesday the following stops will be dropped on the Greystones Route
- Sean Moore Road - (Irish Glass Site)
- Sandymount - (Stand Road / New Grove Ave Jct)
- Sandymount - (Stand Road near Parade Ave Jct)

These stops will continue to be served on an hourly basis, 24hrs per day, by the Killiney/Dalkey – Dublin Airport service which it seems is going to be unchanged.

From the same date, the below stops will be added on an hourly basis.
- Maldron Hotel (Cardiff Lane)
- School House Hotel (Northumberland Rd)
- Ballsbridge Hotel (Pembroke Rd)
- RDS (Merrion Rd)
- Bewleys Hotel, Ballsbridge (Merrion Rd)
- St. Vincents Hospital (Merrion Rd)

Full timetable at:
http://www.aircoach.ie/media/Aircoach%20Greystones%20TT%2029-10-13.pdf

LXFlyer · 29-10-2013 4:23pm

devnull wrote: »

You had a great idea it seems, since they are going to do very similar.

From Wednesday the following stops will be dropped on the Greystones Route
- Sean Moore Road - (Irish Glass Site)
- Sandymount - (Stand Road / New Grove Ave Jct)
- Sandymount - (Stand Road near Parade Ave Jct)

These stops will continue to be served on an hourly basis, 24hrs per day, by the Killiney/Dalkey – Dublin Airport service which it seems is going to be unchanged.

From the same date, the below stops will be added on an hourly basis.
- Maldron Hotel (Cardiff Lane)
- School House Hotel (Northumberland Rd)
- Ballsbridge Hotel (Pembroke Rd)
- RDS (Merrion Rd)
- Bewleys Hotel, Ballsbridge (Merrion Rd)
- St. Vincents Hospital (Merrion Rd)

Full timetable at:
http://www.aircoach.ie/media/Aircoach%20Greystones%20TT%2029-10-13.pdf

Sounds like a good compromise - everywhere originally served pretty much has a service again.

devnull · 29-10-2013 4:31pm

Indeed, but not sure what the obsession in Aircoach is with giving practically no notice once again, it's like they don't want to confirm it until it starts operation.

They post a news item on 25th saying the stops will be dropped, and routing will be changed but don't announce the new ones in the same article or in what way the routing will be changed. Why not detail the changes in full?

This is something that the NTA really need to deal with for commercial services as well as PSO, I just can't fathom why you would do such a thing and start operating the changed service before telling anyone.

LXFlyer · 29-10-2013 4:44pm

I wonder what the exact routing is between Northumberland Road, Macken Street and the O2?

Given the combinations of low bridges east of Pearse Station, and no right/left turns at the Samuel Beckett Bridge, it's not exactly straightforward.

devnull · 29-10-2013 4:52pm

Indeed - certainly relevant if they are going to continue to use the Tri-Axles on that route which are very tall, since they seem to always operate the Greystones route. I see they are allowing 10 extra minutes for the journey, I'm curious if that will prove to be enough at peak times especially.

There is little slack in the timetable too, since previously a coach would arrive in Greystones at xx:50 and then leave at xx:00, now they have coaches down as arriving at xx:00. Similar story with the other direction. I can't imagine they are going to have an hour break at both ends, that would be pretty wasteful.

I doubt it will interwork with the Dalkey route either, since that route cannot take tri-axles due to the narrow roads, of course, unless they are going to change the allocations of vehicles.

ScottSF · 29-10-2013 5:21pm

I am happy to see most of the service restored, perhaps with even quicker times to the airport via the O2 and tunnel from the Ballsbridge vicinity. It took awhile for them to decide what to do and clearly missed out on the busy summer tourist season.

Greystones route with new Ballsbridge stops listed and timed:
http://www.aircoach.ie/table.routes.greystones.php

I am also dumbfounded as to why Aircoach would wait until the last minute to make the announcement. If they told well-connected people (like us of course

we would have helped spread the word.

I wonder if all the hotels in the area were informed directly about this. The hotels advertise their closeness to the AirCoach route as one of the benefits of staying with them which has been in doubt for the last six months.

Idbatterim · 29-10-2013 5:40pm

I stopped using the aircoach and now drive, even though it is only a 10 minute walk away, airport parking has become so cheap, I have managed to get it for E2.99 or E3.99 a day the past few times! When they were running the Ballinteer service, the timing was excellent, I used to get it in the morning and it would be there to the correct minute and you knew it wouldnt leave a stop early...

the numbers using the airport are up again, so hopefully its more viable now... One other thing, on Ryanair, they only sold the tickets going into the city centre, not further...

Personally I would use it more if I thought the average frequency on the Donnybrook route was 15 minutes, 20 is pushing it a bit...

LXFlyer · 29-10-2013 5:52pm

Idbatterim wrote: »

I stopped using the aircoach and now drive, even though it is only a 10 minute walk away, airport parking has become so cheap, I have managed to get it for E2.99 or E3.99 a day the past few times! When they were running the Ballinteer service, the timing was excellent, I used to get it in the morning and it would be there to the correct minute and you knew it wouldnt leave a stop early...

the numbers using the airport are up again, so hopefully its more viable now... One other thing, on Ryanair, they only sold the tickets going into the city centre, not further...

Personally I would use it more if I thought the average frequency on the Donnybrook route was 15 minutes, 20 is pushing it a bit...

Without a major industrial/business park or hotel, the Ballinteer route would never be viable for coaches of the size that Aircoach operated on it.

The difference with all of the other routes is that they all have numerous hotels and other significant traffic generators en route.

The Ballinteer route was totally reliant on the residential market.

dowlingm · 29-10-2013 7:50pm

I think it's very poor form for any public licence operators to give such short notices of changes. Why does NTA not seem to give a stuff is beyond me, as it gives a perception of chopping and changing. Some people may have looked up the schedule a week ago and made plans based on those - maybe they'll check again, maybe not.

Victor · 29-10-2013 8:16pm

ScottSF wrote: »

I wonder if all the hotels in the area were informed directly about this. The hotels advertise their closeness to the AirCoach route as one of the benefits of staying with them which has been in doubt for the last six months.

I wonder if the hotels were subsidising services and that subsidy was withdrawn or disputed and it has now been restored.

Idbatterim · 29-10-2013 8:18pm

yeah i agree about the ballinteer route, also thought it could have possibly went slightly down the n81 and had a "Tallaght" stop, just U turn at the first roundabout and back down onto M50... Also the bus as you say was the usual massive one, certainly way bigger than needed...

xper · 30-10-2013 3:24am

devnull wrote: »

You had a great idea it seems, since they are going to do very similar.

I really must start doing this at work!

munchkin_utd · 30-10-2013 10:57am

dowlingm wrote: »

I think it's very poor form for any public licence operators to give such short notices of changes. Why does NTA not seem to give a stuff is beyond me, as it gives a perception of chopping and changing. Some people may have looked up the schedule a week ago and made plans based on those - maybe they'll check again, maybe not.

to be honest, its more inexcusable for Air Coach to run services via the city centre with no, not even the slightest, indication of when they actually stop in the city centre.
Grand, during the day its hard to predict. But at night? When theres no traffic or congestion.
I contacted them a few times looking for a hint of a time, and the one answer I got was that there was a bus every hour or something, as in: "go wait in the rain and cold at 4 in the morning and see when the bus comes, and at the worst of it you will wait an hour" - but, being Ireland you wouldnt be shocked if a bus just didnt come so you'd be waiting 2 hours with no clue of when you should be seeing a bus arriving. EDIT: and youre looking to catch a flight at the airport so being late isnt an option.
Oh, and thats me coming from grand canal dock so a good 20 minute walk in the first place.

That said, the new bus via grand canal has a TIMETABLE incl intermediate stops so I could see myself using it.
I dont know why they now have a timetable when for the past decade it was deemed superfluous.
Surely it was a much better business model to not bother with it and have the public standing about in the rain and wind to wait for the bus (and be tempted by a nice warm taxi offering the ride to the airport for the same price).

SandyfordGuy · 30-10-2013 11:00am

Taxis poaching passengers since they know when the bus will come is the main reason during the day but makes little sense at night when the bus every half hour

bk · 30-10-2013 11:11am

SandyfordGuy wrote: »

Taxis poaching passengers since they know when the bus will come is the main reason during the day but makes little sense at night when the bus every half hour

I would argue the opposite, I've seen taxi drivers saying the Aircoach service has been cancelled, or isn't coming for another hour only to see the Aircoach turn up 2 minutes later.

I think RTPI would go a long way to reducing this and would also give people a better idea of when it is coming.

There were previously rumours of RTPI coming soon to Aircoach, but that seems to have stalled now.

munchkin_utd · 30-10-2013 11:17am

SandyfordGuy wrote: »

Taxis poaching passengers since they know when the bus will come is the main reason during the day but makes little sense at night when the bus every half hour

to be fair, its really the oposite as by only quoting a time for the terminus the taxi man can shadow the bus a minute or 2 in advance and because the passengers havent the faintest idea when the bus will come (but taximan does, as hes running just in front of it) and the passenger by definition is nervous about missing a flight, the taximan benefits on all fronts by the deliberate concealment of the bus company on when they have busses running.

jesus, if I was running a concert I'd tell people when its on.
If I was running a ferry I'd tell people when it leaves
If im meeting someone in a pub I'll name a time.
But in Dublin, busses just mill about the place without any fixed announced time.
Madness. Sheer madness.

devnull · 30-10-2013 11:27am

In fairness, I believe at least for the night they should be giving times, but the taxi argument is a valid one because I've seen taxi drivers discussing the fact they prefer the Aircoach services that have timetables, since it organises passengers at the stop for them, and they know when the rich pickings will be rather thn the totally random situation which they have at the moment where they don'[t know when the buses will arrive or when the passengers will arrive at the stop.

However I do agree there is a good argument that if passengers knew when the bus was due they would be more likely to hold on rather than take the taxi, but there would be a trade off there which may or may not work out better for the reasons that I outlined above. I'd guess the risk is being taken with the Greystones risk as there is relatively little to lose, they're removing stops that have a low footfall and replacing them ones that should have better, it's a relatively low risk change.

It is still disappointing however that Aircoach suffer from the same fallings regarding information and website that we've come to expect over the years, the service commenced yesterday, yet there is no news item announcing it (Just one about the removal of stops), and the one page people will look, on the Ballsbridge service timetable, it has a message about the previous service being suspended.

http://www.aircoach.ie/table.routes.ballsbridge.php

And to top it all off, they should have been ready to go all guns blazing with none of these issues,with the Dublin Web Sumit at the RDS and the hotels around being fully booked, they are not expoliting this because of this situation where they won't get their website or information in order. Just to think how much benefit they could have had from the Web Sumit and how many people will be going from the airport to the area?

But if nobody knows about it and thinks it's suspended

munchkin_utd · 30-10-2013 11:56am

regarding poaching by taxis, if aircoach were way more aggressive with their internet ticketing and pricing then you'd have more folks with prepay tickets and thus infintely less likely to be tempted by a taxidriver as they already have paid for the bus in advance.

Especially when now they actually know when to expect a bus to arrive!

bk · 30-10-2013 12:02pm

munchkin_utd wrote: »

regarding poaching by taxis, if aircoach were way more aggressive with their internet ticketing and pricing then you'd have more folks with prepay tickets and thus infintely less likely to be tempted by a taxidriver as they already have paid for the bus in advance.

Especially when now they actually know when to expect a bus to arrive!

Yup, Aircoach need to radically redesign and improve their website and also improve the online booking system so that you can book up till 1 hour in advance. The whole book by 5pm the day before is silly.

Also they don't give any discounts for booking online on their city airport routes (they do to Cork and Belfast).

Combine this with RTPI and I believe it would greatly reduce the taxi poaching problem.

It is funny, I often hear drivers and the CS guys whining at customers on the Cork route to use online bookings. But do you know what, IMO it is their own fault people don't use it more. Improve the site and the systems and people will use it.

Idbatterim · 30-10-2013 12:13pm

could i ask how a logistics operation like this which must be a multi million euro operation, is run so poorly, by no doubt management team and CEO on fairly good money? I used to think the service was great initially, after informing myself a bit more having read this, I think its pretty shocking on a number of fronts, including the website and having to book by 5pm the day before, are they operating in the 20th century or what?!

LXFlyer · 30-10-2013 12:24pm

What's even better is that the timetable on the NTA journey planner for the Leopardstown route (route 700) does not equate to that on the Aircoach website.

The NTA planner has departures every fifteen minutes at xx:00, xx:15, xx:30 and xx:45 24/7 from Leopardstown, whereas the Aircoach website shows that between 00:00 and 04:00 they are actually every thirty minutes.

In the opposite direction, from Dublin Airport, the journey planner shows it as every thirty minutes from 23:55 to 02:25 and every fifteen minutes at all other times, while the Aircoach website states that the thirty minute frequency applies from 23:55 to 03:25!

These are the simple things that really need to be done correctly.

devnull · 30-10-2013 1:20pm

lxflyer wrote: »

What's even better is that the timetable on the NTA journey planner for the Leopardstown route (route 700) does not equate to that on the Aircoach website.

The NTA planner has departures every fifteen minutes at xx:00, xx:15, xx:30 and xx:45 24/7 from Leopardstown, whereas the Aircoach website shows that between 00:00 and 04:00 they are actually every thirty minutes.

In the opposite direction, from Dublin Airport, the journey planner shows it as every thirty minutes from 23:55 to 02:25 and every fifteen minutes at all other times, while the Aircoach website states that the thirty minute frequency applies from 23:55 to 03:25!

These are the simple things that really need to be done correctly.

Mistakes like this are nothing new though, neither is inaccurate information, the whole website is a mess of many pages that contradict each other or are out of date, operationally they may well be excellent as I've said before, but the way they communicate with customers and the standard of information that they provide through their website is very poor and lets them down.,

As I've said before, they need someone with the drive and dedication to look after this side of them and to ensure that things like this do not and cannot happen, someone has to take ownership of this side of the business as it's been neglected for far too long and the fact that it has been allowed to carry on for years without being resolved and the fact the website should have been redesigned a long time ago, points to bad management since it is managements job to address this kind of thing.

There needs to be a bigger customer focus and looking at things from a prospective customer point of view. Around two months ago they said a website was coming soon with real time due to launch in October, as usual, with Aircoach, it seems 'soon' means completely the opposite, or as someone elsewhere said that I read, 'NEVER'

I've given up contacting them about such things, as it's simply not worth bothering.

Aircoach Ballsbridge new route from 29 October 2013

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