Annoying rattle, can anyone help?

lismore7 · 20-04-2014 9:35pm #1

I have an annoying rattle coming from the front of my bike and I cannot find where it's coming from.
Strangley, it only rattles badly when my hands are on the hoods, only a little bit when they are on the drops and not at all, when they are on the tops...
When on smooth tarmac, there is no rattle, it's just rough roads...
I've checked all nuts n bolts etc and can't find where it is.

My bike is a Cube Agree GTC...
I was wondering if it was the gear cables knocking against the carbon frame but no...tried that.
Has anyone any ideas and moreover, for those who have this bike, do they have a similar problem?

meercat · 20-04-2014 9:53pm

Try tightening the front skewers a fraction.

duffyshuffle · 20-04-2014 9:55pm

Is your tube valve rattling against the wheel?

martyc5674 · 20-04-2014 9:59pm

duffyshuffle wrote: »

Is your tube valve rattling against the wheel?

That's what I was going to suggest...can make a hell of a racket if loose..amazing for such a small component

disco1 · 20-04-2014 9:59pm

Headset may be loose....what about cable outers may clatter off each other or cable outers against the bars...

some shimano 6700 and 7900 series shifters rattle terribbly , although shimano never admitted there was an issue.

check bottle cages...

check valve stems are not clattering off rims.

the internal brake cable if internal may clatter off frame...

Wishbone Ash · 20-04-2014 10:10pm

duffyshuffle wrote: »

Is your tube valve rattling against the wheel?

martyc5674 wrote: »

That's what I was going to suggest...can make a hell of a racket if loose..amazing for such a small component

Sorry to hijack the thread but you may have answered a rattle which has been bothering me in the last few days. I've just done a few very long descents and noticed a rattle coming from the front wheel at speed. It was bothering me no end and hampering the pleasure. I had checked loads of things to no avail but the tube on the front has a threadless valve. Perhaps this is the root of my problem. :cool: Thanks!

disco1 · 20-04-2014 10:15pm

Yep...treadless valves can be quietened with some black insulation tape around the area nearest to the rim hole then just push it into the hole using as much pressure as you can to jam the valve.

lismore7 · 20-04-2014 10:20pm

duffyshuffle wrote: »

Is your tube valve rattling against the wheel?

I've just checked that and have noticed I dont have a nut on it that tightens the valve to the wheel rim....
Could that be the problem?

But why would it only rattle when my hands are on the hoods?

lismore7 · 20-04-2014 10:23pm

disco1 wrote: »

Headset may be loose....what about cable outers may clatter off each other or cable outers against the bars...

some shimano 6700 and 7900 series shifters rattle terribbly , although shimano never admitted there was an issue.

check bottle cages...

check valve stems are not clattering off rims.

the internal brake cable if internal may clatter off frame...

Checked bottle cages and that's fine, looking into valve as a poss....I was wondering if it was the cables running inside the frame ?? but why only rattling when my hands are on the hoods and not drops or tops??

disco1 · 20-04-2014 10:25pm

Prob not the wheels..but secure the valves anyway ..process of elemination...check the cable outers..you can cable tie them together to stop rattleing

XtotheZ · 20-04-2014 10:36pm

Did you Try loosening stem and top cap and check the 2 sets of bearings, retighten then?

lismore7 · 20-04-2014 11:47pm

XtotheZ wrote: »

Did you Try loosening stem and top cap and check the 2 sets of bearings, retighten then?

Have had trouble with front stem loosening a few times...
Where are the 2 sets of bearings, you mentioned? (not meaning to sound stupid)

XtotheZ · 21-04-2014 12:08am

lismore7 wrote: »

Have had trouble with front stem loosening a few times...
Where are the 2 sets of bearings, you mentioned? (not meaning to sound stupid)

if you take the stem and top cap off and pull the forks out there top and bottom of the 'hole' where the steerer goes in the frame. On my dolan frame there fairly wedged in, I'd say it's a case of just taking it all apart and putting it back together

Brian? · 21-04-2014 11:47am

I thought I had a rattle from my front wheel, turned out to be a loose bottle cage.

lismore7 · 21-04-2014 2:34pm

XtotheZ wrote: »

if you take the stem and top cap off and pull the forks out there top and bottom of the 'hole' where the steerer goes in the frame. On my dolan frame there fairly wedged in, I'd say it's a case of just taking it all apart and putting it back together

Thanks XtotheZ, will get the tool kit out tonight and do what you suggest....
There's something uneasy about taking the front of a new bike apart.

Will let you know how we do...

ashleey · 21-04-2014 4:57pm

I have the same rattle. Found out that it is the cables where they exit the bar tape against the underside of the handle bar. If you have good cables (shimano 9000) they are quite stiff. I finally diagnosed mine by gripping them as I rattled over Donegal Tarmac today.

crosstownk · 21-04-2014 8:40pm

Same here.

I've a similar 'buzz/rattle' from my left lever. LBS said very little can be done. I've Shimano Claris. It's doing my head in and I've no idea how to resolve it.

lismore7 · 21-04-2014 11:22pm

XtotheZ wrote: »

if you take the stem and top cap off and pull the forks out there top and bottom of the 'hole' where the steerer goes in the frame. On my dolan frame there fairly wedged in, I'd say it's a case of just taking it all apart and putting it back together

Took the front stem to pieces as you suggested. Couldn't find any obvious issue with anything being loose but made sure all was tight when putting back together. Apart from the 2 side front stem alan bolts and the top stem nut, didn't find anything else to tighten??
It's not the where the cables exit the frame, as they are solid.
From the symptoms i.e. rattles only when riding the hoods, does sound like a frame issue, rather than cables. but will tie up cables and put tape around front tyre valve as others suggested.
Will be taking her out for a spin morrow night (weather permitting) so will report back...

lismore7 · 22-04-2014 8:20pm

Now this rattle is starting to do my head in!!!!

I've taped the cables, and where the cables rub the carbon frame.
Taped up the deviders on the front stem.
Taken off the front stem and re-tightened.
Checked all nuts n bolts and taped the valve on the front wheel...and STILL the bloody rattling continues...maybe even louder.
But ONLY when my hands are on the drops, riding on a rough surface.?????
As soon as i move a hand away to fiddle with any bits on the front when the rattling noise starts...it stops!!!!
The sound is like something vibrating adainst the carbon....
Any help is greatly appreciated...

XtotheZ · 22-04-2014 8:45pm

lismore7 wrote: »

Now this rattle is starting to do my head in!!!!

I've taped the cables, and where the cables rub the carbon frame.
Taped up the deviders on the front stem.
Taken off the front stem and re-tightened.
Checked all nuts n bolts and taped the valve on the front wheel...and STILL the bloody rattling continues...maybe even louder.
But ONLY when my hands are on the drops, riding on a rough surface.?????
As soon as i move a hand away to fiddle with any bits on the front when the rattling noise starts...it stops!!!!
The sound is like something vibrating adainst the carbon....
Any help is greatly appreciated...

Hmm this is a tricky one. Is there any chance its from the wheels? if you have a spare set try swapping them. I had a problem with a loud creaking sound when I was out of the saddle and was sure it was from the stem or valve expander. Turned out to be the FFWD skewer and just replaced that with a Bontrager one and it was sound.

Logically, going in the drops would shift your weight forward. is the rattling periodic? ie everytime you pedal or is it constant?

lismore7 · 22-04-2014 9:59pm

XtotheZ wrote: »

Hmm this is a tricky one. Is there any chance its from the wheels? if you have a spare set try swapping them. I had a problem with a loud creaking sound when I was out of the saddle and was sure it was from the stem or valve expander. Turned out to be the FFWD skewer and just replaced that with a Bontrager one and it was sound.

Logically, going in the drops would shift your weight forward. is the rattling periodic? ie everytime you pedal or is it constant?

Yes, that's what I was thinking exactly same thing...noise only when wieght is on the hoods (may have mistakenly said drops before..meant hoods), therefore only when my weight is furtherest forward.
Am I opening up a gap somewhere when my weight is forward?
I taped up the 4 metal dividers between handle and frame (think they are for heightening handle bars?) no diff.
The rattle comes when riding over rough road and peddling or not makes no difference. The rougher the ground the louder the noise. Nice tarmac has no noise, hands on tops and drops has no noise either and lifting 1 hand off also stops the noise....

Unfortyunately I don't have spare wheels to swap around.
i'm loathed to cycle much now, in case I'm doing damage.
I could do what you mentioned previously by taking apart the front stem etc...but not sure what I'm looking for, as there was allot of bits...
Do appreciate your assistance.
The sound is like something knocking off the carbon frame..

Cee-Jay-Cee · 22-04-2014 11:39pm

When you were refitting the stem did you tighten down the top cap BEFORE tightening the stem nuts? You should have no need to tape the spacers under the stem if the stem is tightened correctly. You basically tighten down the top nut in the cap until you can no longer turn the spacers by hand and then tighten the nuts on the stem clamp. If the spacers were slightly loose and you were able to turn/spin them round then your headset isn't tightened correctly.

If you bounce the front of the bike from an inch or two off the ground can you hear the rattle?

Have you checked all spokes are tight?

Peel back the rubber hood covers and make sure the shifters are properly tight (5mm Allen key required)

lismore7 · 22-04-2014 11:57pm

CJC999 wrote: »

When you were refitting the stem did you tighten down the top cap BEFORE tightening the stem nuts? You should have no need to tape the spacers under the stem if the stem is tightened correctly. You basically tighten down the top nut in the cap until you can no longer turn the spacers by hand and then tighten the nuts on the stem clamp. If the spacers were slightly loose and you were able to turn/spin them round then your headset isn't tightened correctly.

If you bounce the front of the bike from an inch or two off the ground can you hear the rattle?

Have you checked all spokes are tight?

Peel back the rubber hood covers and make sure the shifters are properly tight (5mm Allen key required)

Thanks CJC999. I get on that tomorrow and go through all you've suggested and let you know how I get on. All of the above do sound plausible...so fingers crossed.
Did try to drop bike down from 2 inches up but no rattle...
Cheers

jamesd · 23-04-2014 9:16am

Have a read here : http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=40004&t=12841755

http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=40004&t=12844482

http://www.cyclingweekly.cc/forum/tech-312/internal-routing---cable-rattle-15955

LEt me know how you get on as I have a 2012 cube agree gtc and have a rattle too.

RV · 23-04-2014 1:02pm

Had one of them too - but in the car!
Left the "other half" at home and hey presto - problem solved.

To OP: You haven't one of them annoying basket cases on the handlebars by any chance.

D__G · 23-04-2014 1:24pm

Do you have a multi-tool in your saddle bag rattling against the seat-post or Saddle rails?

ericzeking · 23-04-2014 4:24pm

I had something similar with my cube agree....cleaned and lubed up the fork and headset and cleaned the spacers.

Other suggestions

Loose shifters
Water bottle rattling in cage
Saddle
Saddle bag contents
pedals need clean/lube
Cleats need clean/lube
Loose spokes

Jesus I hate rattles, I'd nearly turn around and go home from a spin if I hear a rattle.
I currently have a squeeky saddle but the fact that I know exactly what it is means it doesn't bother me so much

It's the not knowing that'll kill ya!

crosstownk · 23-04-2014 8:27pm

crosstownk wrote: »

Same here.

I've a similar 'buzz/rattle' from my left lever. LBS said very little can be done. I've Shimano Claris. It's doing my head in and I've no idea how to resolve it.

OK - I've taken a bit of time to identify where the buzz is coming from. It's from the stupid clear plastic that covers the front mech position indicator. Why Shimano think that I need an indicator is beyond me.

Anyway OP - check that out in case it helps identify your source of the noise. If I drop the bike an inch from the ground it rattles but if I put my finger on the clear plastic while I drop it - it cures it. I'll need to find some way to secure the thing.

torydiver · 23-04-2014 9:55pm

crosstownk wrote: »

OK - I've taken a bit of time to identify where the buzz is coming from. It's from the stupid clear plastic that covers the front mech position indicator. Why Shimano think that I need an indicator is beyond me.

Anyway OP - check that out in case it helps identify your source of the noise. If I drop the bike an inch from the ground it rattles but if I put my finger on the clear plastic while I drop it - it cures it. I'll need to find some way to secure the thing.

Good excuse to replace whole groupset with ultegra or dura ace ðŸ˜‹ðŸ˜œ

lismore7 · 23-04-2014 10:02pm

jamesd wrote: »

Have a read here : http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=40004&t=12841755

http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=40004&t=12844482

http://www.cyclingweekly.cc/forum/tech-312/internal-routing---cable-rattle-15955

LEt me know how you get on as I have a 2012 cube agree gtc and have a rattle too.

After checking out your links above, particulary the first link, it seems that there is a common fault with the Cube Agree GTCs, regarding this rattle.
It seems a fault can develop over time with the cables when they run inside the carbon frame. Moreover this fault seems to develop after a few months, which is exactly what happened to mine and this would be the kinda sound I'm hearing.
According to some Cube Agree owners, it can rectified by pushing the cables further into the frame.
Last night I tightened the front stem as previously suggested but unfortunately I've just come down with a bad dose of flu and am stuck in bed dying!!!!!

As soon as I'm able, I.ll take the bike out to test the first adjustment regarding the front stem and then again after pushing the cables further back into the frame.
Seemingly Cube have finally recognised this fault and have brought out a damping kit to fit to the bike, which can be ordered from your LBS under gaurantee.
But it seems those with this issue resolved it by pushing in the cables....
We will see...
I'll update you once I'm back on my feet and able to go for a spin...

lismore7 · 23-04-2014 10:05pm

D__G wrote: »

Do you have a multi-tool in your saddle bag rattling against the seat-post or Saddle rails?

I do but the noise is definately coming from around the front stem or front carbon frame

lismore7 · 24-04-2014 1:53pm

After much research, help from boardsies and joint help from my daughter with good hearing....rattle has now been identified but NOT rectified.

It is indeed a design issue regarding the rear brake cable which runs inside the top frame.
There seems to be some internal device connected to this cable inside the frame, that over time begins to vibrate louder against the carbon frame, over rough roads.
Due to the nature of this fault, it will be covered under warranty.
After speaking with my LBS, it seems this can be a problem with other makes of bikes that have the cables running internally.
My LBS have dealt with this issue before and will sort it for me.

Anyone else had this issue?

ashleey · 25-04-2014 8:17pm

Just a suggestion seeing as you say that it's noticeable when you hold the drops:

You will slightly stress the steerer in the headset. This will lift the compression ring slightly that holds down the top headset cartridge bearing. The bearing then rattles in the frame due to the minuscule gap.

It is solved by ensuring that the headset cover (the lower most spacer under stem on top of frame) sits slightly above the frame before preloading the bearings when tightening the top cap. This requires micro spacers or shims inside the headset cover. They are basically 1 1/8 inch washers about 0.25mm or 0.6mm thick.

Then, when you tighten down the top cap, before the stem bolts the spacers and cover squeeze down on the headset bearing to hold it down neatly. The compression ring sort of works a little loose without this pressure and thus rattle.

Try this before worrying about internal cables.

jamesd · 25-04-2014 9:47pm

lismore7 wrote: »

After much research, help from boardsies and joint help from my daughter with good hearing....rattle has now been identified but NOT rectified.

It is indeed a design issue regarding the rear brake cable which runs inside the top frame.
There seems to be some internal device connected to this cable inside the frame, that over time begins to vibrate louder against the carbon frame, over rough roads.
Due to the nature of this fault, it will be covered under warranty.
After speaking with my LBS, it seems this can be a problem with other makes of bikes that have the cables running internally.
My LBS have dealt with this issue before and will sort it for me.

Anyone else had this issue?

Was your bike in or out of warranty?

lismore7 · 26-04-2014 1:02am

jamesd wrote: »

Was your bike in or out of warranty?

Only got the bike end of last year, so only had it 5 months

lismore7 · 26-04-2014 1:08am

ashleey wrote: »

Just a suggestion seeing as you say that it's noticeable when you hold the drops:

You will slightly stress the steerer in the headset. This will lift the compression ring slightly that holds down the top headset cartridge bearing. The bearing then rattles in the frame due to the minuscule gap.

It is solved by ensuring that the headset cover (the lower most spacer under stem on top of frame) sits slightly above the frame before preloading the bearings when tightening the top cap. This requires micro spacers or shims inside the headset cover. They are basically 1 1/8 inch washers about 0.25mm or 0.6mm thick.

Then, when you tighten down the top cap, before the stem bolts the spacers and cover squeeze down on the headset bearing to hold it down neatly. The compression ring sort of works a little loose without this pressure and thus rattle.

Try this before worrying about internal cables.

This does made sense to me. Just to correct an error, I may have stated that the rattle only happens when hands are on drops...I meant to say hoods. Hands on drops and tops, doesn't cause rattle.
However that said, your suggestion is also a possiblity and as the bike is still under warranty, I'll mention this to the LBS, as they wil have the bits you mentioned.
Many thanks

ashleey · 26-04-2014 9:22am

You will be able to see yourself. Loosen top cap and then stem bolts. The headset cover needs to be slightly above the frame. You could lift everything off the steerer column also and check that this top cover when pushed down holds the bearing down

lismore7 · 27-04-2014 10:18pm

jamesd wrote: »

Have a read here : http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=40004&t=12841755

http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=40004&t=12844482

http://www.cyclingweekly.cc/forum/tech-312/internal-routing---cable-rattle-15955

LEt me know how you get on as I have a 2012 cube agree gtc and have a rattle too.

Your suggestion finally resolved the front rattle.
I checked out the links you submitted and they highlighted the same problem and offered suggestions.

It was indeed the rear brake cable which runs inside the top of the carbon frame. It has some kind of connection inside the frame, which over time begins to rattle and gets gradually louder.
I did what was suggested in yours links and that was to push the cabel at the front stem further into the frame until you hear a click! Which I did and low and behold....no more rattle...Took Ruby Cube out for a spin today and experienced 60ks of silent running....absolute heaven....
However I'm unsure how long this fix will last and am dropping bike into LBS to have it perrminantly sorted, as it's still under warranty...

Thanks for your help "jamesd", you were right on the money

and maybe it might be the same issue you have?

Annoying rattle, can anyone help?

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