Separate uniforms for GR.. Yes/No....

Santa Cruz · 11-05-2014 5:57pm

bluetop wrote: »

So this gives them the right to do and say what they like, including the bullying tactics that some endure in some stations, i am not sure if you are living in another world to some of the reserves that do endure this, but as i have pointed out no two stations are the same in any aspects.

Its like a domino effect in stations once one person does something they all follow as they dont want to be seen as been different, i am totally glad now that all this has come out now as the guy on the radio has opened yet another can of worms for AGS, the whistle-blowers are coming out of the woodwork now.

Someone can't take a bit of slagging so goes off crying to Joe Duffy. Do you think that will endear them to the full timers. If they can't manage to deal with it maybe they are in the wrong place. How do they think they will deal with confrontation on the street if they can't stand up to a bully boy. You will find bully boys in every profession but if you take them on they usually go away

Two Cent · 11-05-2014 6:50pm

Santa Cruz wrote: »

Someone can't take a bit of slagging so goes off crying to Joe Duffy. Do you think that will endear them to the full timers. If they can't manage to deal with it maybe they are in the wrong place. How do they think they will deal with confrontation on the street if they can't stand up to a bully boy. You will find bully boys in every profession but if you take them on they usually go away

Again I fear for the future if this is the attitude that prevails!

Slagging is another word for bullying. It's one person making fun at another persons situation.

Ah sure, it was only a bit of slagging...
Mental health issues are serious so slagging to one can be bullying to another.
Please spare a bit of time and go on to the D.O.H website and look up what is deemed to be bullying and harassment ....
You expect that crap of thugs out on the beat but off your own is totally unexceptable under any circumstance... It should NEVER be accepted.
It's like slagging off other races... THATS NOT SLAGGING THATS BEEN A RACIEST.
You have basically shown me that you really don't understand the nuts and bolts of this complex situation and are looking at things in a one dimensional perspective ...

timwynne · 11-05-2014 9:02pm

Santa Cruz wrote: »

Do you think that will endear them to the full timers.

exact example of the boys club mentality - typical narrow minded country view. no wonder the force is in turmoil

his hardwork, professionalism, positive contribution and spirit of volunteerism should endear him to fulltimers not a neck like a jockeys bollox

bluetop · 11-05-2014 10:51pm

Santa Cruz wrote: »

Someone can't take a bit of slagging so goes off crying to Joe Duffy. Do you think that will endear them to the full timers. If they can't manage to deal with it maybe they are in the wrong place. How do they think they will deal with confrontation on the street if they can't stand up to a bully boy. You will find bully boys in every profession but if you take them on they usually go away

Slagging is one thing, we can all take a bit of banter thats not a problem for some people, but been left to sit on a chair for hours, or walking a beat with a statue that is a different kettle of fish, FT refusing to work with a RG because they are part time, what other industry would you see that happen in, there are lots of Companies have part time staff what do you think if you said to the boss i am not working with them, i can tell you now it would be work with them or get your coat simple.

What we are dealing with here is peer pressure from other FT members that are possible staunch GRA reps or members forcing their will upon other members, this is due to 8yrs of the GRA and the AGSI bashing them at every opportunity at meeting at their conferences, this is the first year the GRA have not had a mandate on the Reserves and i for one could not believe it was true, but hay sure the AGSI was going to have their bash at it, when FT members see this from their own representative body what message does this portray, it portrays contempt for the reserve force and shows at any cost we need to get rid of these people, they make the members think the reserves are costing money, costing them overtime when in actual fact they are not costing the service nothing, the overtime myth is just that there is none, and there is no money to pay it either, so they make up the shortfall using reserve members, when an event takes place there is a budget allocated to it, now from what i hear ever year that budget is cut down, so when the event has allocated the money for the FT members there is always not going to be enough so they make that short fall up with Part time members, so there is no overtime lost, there just is not enough money to pay it, so unless you want to do it for nothing like the part timers are let someone know you will do it for nothing, how many FT members will then put their hands up............. ??.

So the part time members come in give up their free time and are also watching the FT back if something does kick off, do you think its fair they are left sitting in a chair for most of the night regardless of powers they are still there under the same threat as a FT member yet they do it, do you think its fair that FT members refuse to work with them, let them in the car or van, ignore them when they are on the beat with them, remember one day you might rely on that part time member and if you treat them badly who knows what could happen........ will they be there for you then think about it, so remember the next time you are assigned a part time member treat them as you would like to be treated by others, next time they could be saving your life or helping you in a bad situation we just dont know what is around the next corner.

Santa Cruz i just hope to god i never have to work with you or your type, and if it takes people to air their views at the treatment they get on air great lets do that, lets tell everyone we are human like the rest of the people, we are not robots with no emotions or spirits, that we can turn these off when we arrive at the station, or on the beat.

msg11 · 12-05-2014 12:38pm

bluetop wrote: »

So this gives them the right to do and say what they like, including the bullying tactics that some endure in some stations, i am not sure if you are living in another world to some of the reserves that do endure this, but as i have pointed out no two stations are the same in any aspects.

Its like a domino effect in stations once one person does something they all follow as they dont want to be seen as been different, i am totally glad now that all this has come out now as the guy on the radio has opened yet another can of worms for AGS, the whistle-blowers are coming out of the woodwork now.

I am not disagreeing with you bluetop, just that I think you should ease up on giving the idea that all full time members are disrespectful to us.

I'm not living in a separate planet, I have been sat in the station for about an hour waiting, but in that time I just asked other members if I could tag along with them, these members that say yes are usually the best and I enjoy going out with them.

I have had only had one car fly off without me, now that could have been a mistake. I asked him could I come along with him and he said he would catch up with me in ten and flew off in a car. I just found it quite funny to be honest, that if a grown man could not say to my face 'sorry I am a bit busy or no' and be childish about things by driving off. On the other hand he could have been busy got a call or genuinely forgot about me these things happen. Where I work at the moment has a big work force and I interact with the public so I have come across arseholes in the past and present, there all the same and I can tell them a mile off, best practice around these people is just to keep it basic conversation and don't be made a fool out of.

But at the end of the day, the Reserve needs to be overhauled and given a purpose this assisting the full timers has everyone confused as hell, no one knows what assisting them means, we have no powers only thing we do is prevent assaults or cool situations down by there been more numbers.

ryan101 · 12-05-2014 12:42pm

Mc Jakester wrote: »

“We can perhaps laugh at the one of the YouTube hits in 2013 of the dancing reserve at Independence in Mitchelstown but was it clear from this video that it was a Garda Reserve on the stage and not a full time member? I don’t think so.”

Right enough, that lad didn't do the Gardai Reserve any favours

Sierra Oscar · 12-05-2014 1:49pm

There is another reservist on Joe Duffy now. Currently alleging that his stab vest that was left in the station was 'misplaced' which prevented him from going on patrol for two months.

EDIT: He has clarified that he has since left the reserves.

ryan101 · 12-05-2014 1:53pm

Sierra Oscar wrote: »

There is another reservist on Joe Duffy now. Currently alleging that his stab vest that was left in the station was stolen which prevented him from going on patrol for two months.

That's one way of handling a liability.

Kaizersoze81 · 12-05-2014 2:16pm

Moan moan moan. Reserves doing themselves no favours here on liveline. Giving out that they didn't receive benifitial treatment in the full time recruitment.

msg11 · 12-05-2014 3:35pm

Kaizersoze81 wrote: »

Moan moan moan. Reserves doing themselves no favours here on liveline. Giving out that they didn't receive benifitial treatment in the full time recruitment.

I was listening to the two Reserves or resigned Reserves and the retired Detective Sergeant, again the myth of Reserves robbing overtime.

Again I have said before, the Garda charge a rate for policing events, so regardless if the Reserve is there or not the budget will be used up. This budget includes everything from overtime to paying for petrol use of cars, incident control centers etc..

The Phoenix Park gig that ended in disaster cost 200,000€ ' You’ll find some very forensic claims here about reductions in garda numbers to police the Swedish House Mafia show (page 19; there is, however, no breakdown in terms of public duty vs non-public duty gardai for the Phoenix Park shows, though sources indicate to OTR that MCD were charged €200,000 for policing). ' LINK

So that's 200,000€ to spend and after overtime is agreed Reserves will be asked if they would like to help Police the event.

If anyone is robbing overtime it's higher up the chain and they would be doing so under the pre tense that Reserves will show up, which is not good planning as some Reserves may not show up leaving the event under policed.

I mean we have jobs bridge people in where I work, we have work experience people in work. I work the same hours when they are there and I work the same hours when they are not there. The company won't give out extra hours or change my contract regardless, this is not unique to the company I work for it's a cost saving measure nearly all company's or organizations use that have a budget.

Sure look at any other industry that is struggling with workers and have no volunteers to help, they are not getting any extra staff or overtime, the reason is purely financial. Sure why would someone in the board room care what you have or don't have, all they want to see is the figure on there sheet in the green. The sad thing is, even if it is in the green that figure can always be better so next year the budget is dropped and conditions get even worse for people on the ground.

I mean I couldn't see how if the Reserve was disbanded tomorrow conditions or pay would get better for members. That money will be saved then come the budget that excess will be shaved off so your back where you started.

Can I just add also, I am sure it is different for full timers looking at the Reserve, I am not a Garda and I don't know it all the ins and outs of the job, but I can say the above I have noted in all jobs. But I think it's down to the full time members to either push to keep and support us or push to end it. I understand the frustration members have of us coming in and having to take us out but I can honestly see the benefit it could have if we were accepted fully by everyone in AGS.

Santa Cruz · 12-05-2014 4:03pm

Kaizersoze81 wrote: »

Moan moan moan. Reserves doing themselves no favours here on liveline. Giving out that they didn't receive benifitial treatment in the full time recruitment.

While ye probably know my feelings about the Reserve any fair minded person would have to accept that the signals were given out by Commissioners and politicians that Reserve membership would be an advantage when recruitment commenced. I can understand the anger and frustration when it didn't work that way.
It was not beneficial to the introduction of Reserves that they came in at a time that the pay and conditions of full time members were under attack.
msg11 comments do not reflect the true position about the use of Reserves instead of full time Gardai.

msg11 · 12-05-2014 4:17pm

Santa Cruz wrote: »

msg11 comments do not reflect the true position about the use of Reserves instead of full time Gardai.

Granted I did say that in my post, that it's from my perspective.

All that said it's constant circles on this issue and it's where I leave it and my guise on this site. I shall take the back benches going forward.

I wish everyone the best in where ever there interests, full time or part time.

msg11.

Two Cent · 12-05-2014 6:59pm

Well it might not be my platform going on joe Duffy but all I can say is what did the full timers expect. You fling enough insults at a group of people like the GRA and AGSI did over the last 7 years then expect it back. I am just surprised it took this long.

The GRA has created from their own doing this!

I do hope change will come and a massive reform of AGS will happen and this should include getting rid of Gardai of all ranks from their position and installing new outside people to run the ship correctly ... Then introduce a rolling assessment of all Gardai ...

WilcoOut · 12-05-2014 7:50pm

An outside source to lead the force is a great idea

new leadership, new focus, new results

bluetop · 12-05-2014 11:50pm

Well well now it started with 1 reserve on joe duffy, and has increased to 4 so there is a lot of truth coming to light now, AGS is in turmoil all ranks included how can the public have any faith in the force any longer, there should be new blood from outside of the ranks of AGS to take charge of this and hopefully confidence can be restored before its damaged beyond repair.

Garda reserves should either be given powers fit for purpose or get rid of them simple, anyone that has done the up-skilling should move forward any one that has not done it after been give two lots of time scales should be asked to resign and let people who are willing to do the role in.

As for the refusal of FT members to work with some PT members this should be stamped out with immediate effect anyone that wont work with them should be put on report, more integration is what is needed and team building until this is done we are at nothing, how many more RG are going to come out of the woodwork and be on Joe Duffy till this is sorted GRA & AGSI you only have yourselves to blame on this one, for 8 long years you have be little d the reserve force and encouraged rank and file to do the same, senior management is also to blame for allowing this in the first instance but turned a blind eye and buried their heads in the sand knowing far too well this was going on, you have senior members in the park who are anti reserve sure where can you turn or who even, fix the problem thats all that is required and bring the force together as one force not a divided one.

Santa Cruz · 13-05-2014 10:20pm

bluetop wrote: »

Well well now it started with 1 reserve on joe duffy, and has increased to 4 so there is a lot of truth coming to light now, AGS is in turmoil all ranks included how can the public have any faith in the force any longer, there should be new blood from outside of the ranks of AGS to take charge of this and hopefully confidence can be restored before its damaged beyond repair.

Garda reserves should either be given powers fit for purpose or get rid of them simple, anyone that has done the up-skilling should move forward any one that has not done it after been give two lots of time scales should be asked to resign and let people who are willing to do the role in.

As for the refusal of FT members to work with some PT members this should be stamped out with immediate effect anyone that wont work with them should be put on report, more integration is what is needed and team building until this is done we are at nothing, how many more RG are going to come out of the woodwork and be on Joe Duffy till this is sorted GRA & AGSI you only have yourselves to blame on this one, for 8 long years you have be little d the reserve force and encouraged rank and file to do the same, senior management is also to blame for allowing this in the first instance but turned a blind eye and buried their heads in the sand knowing far too well this was going on, you have senior members in the park who are anti reserve sure where can you turn or who even, fix the problem thats all that is required and bring the force together as one force not a divided one.

I'm sure Aunty Frances and Aunty Noirin will make things better

Two Cent · 13-05-2014 11:36pm

Santa Cruz wrote: »

I'm sure Aunty Frances and Aunty Noirin will make things better

Well intermin commis won't be in the job long enough to make a difference as it will be filled by an outsider ... Then the fun will start with changes.. Haven't been wrong so far... AGS is in for some culture shock!!!
As for the minister .. She along with the current government will be gone sooner rather than later

bluetop · 14-05-2014 5:18pm

Two Cent wrote: »

Well intermin commis won't be in the job long enough to make a difference as it will be filled by an outsider ... Then the fun will start with changes.. Haven't been wrong so far... AGS is in for some culture shock!!!
As for the minister .. She along with the current government will be gone sooner rather than later

Looking forward to this if it happens !

Santa Cruz · 14-05-2014 5:40pm

Two Cent wrote: »

Well intermin commis won't be in the job long enough to make a difference as it will be filled by an outsider ... Then the fun will start with changes.. Haven't been wrong so far... AGS is in for some culture shock!!!
As for the minister .. She along with the current government will be gone sooner rather than later

Dream on honey. The more things change the more they stay the same. If you believe anything different you are a fool

WilcoOut · 14-05-2014 5:52pm

Open competition for commissioner announced

few would be candidates on here no doubt

bluetop · 14-05-2014 6:42pm

WilcoOut wrote: »

Open competition for commissioner announced

few would be candidates on here no doubt

In addition, the Cabinet resolved to urgently bring forward new legislation to strengthen the operationm of the Garda Síochána Ombudsman Commission. Ms Fitzgerald further said that the new Independent Garda Authority will be up and running by the end of the year.

She reiterated the Government’s commitment to recruit the new Garda Commissioner by open competition in parallel with the establishment of the new inquiry.

Source

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/cabinet-agrees-to-review-of-department-of-justice-operations-1.1793247

Santa Cruz · 14-05-2014 8:29pm

WilcoOut wrote: »

Open competition for commissioner announced

few would be candidates on here no doubt

Canvassing will disqualify. Will Reserve membership be an advantage?

timwynne · 14-05-2014 9:54pm

Santa Cruz wrote: »

Canvassing will disqualify. Will Reserve membership be an advantage?

open competition as they do not want a member of an garda siochana

so the reserves are deffo out!

mfergus · 15-05-2014 12:11am

timwynne wrote: »

open competition as they do not want a member of an garda siochana

so the reserves are deffo out!

They should change the shoulder markings too! Give them a number. RD190 would suit

bluetop · 15-05-2014 6:38pm

My oh My and we have yet another FT member whistle blower now were is this going to end up, and its defo not doing the public any good seeing this carry on they will soon have no confidence in the Garda, personally there should be a clean sweep with a new broom, and i would say this is only the tip of the iceberg coming out and testing the waters

He said Garda Harrison claims that “as a result of arresting a member of the drugs unit in Athlone for drunk driving that Garda management maliciously set about targeting him while the arrested Garda was afforded protection”.

As we have said all along its the Management thats causing all the problem thru out all the lower rank and file members, which in turn follows thru to the reserves, hopefully the people involved will be weeded out and the Garda can get back to what its supposed to be doing.

source
http://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/oireachtas/whistleblower-targeted-after-arresting-garda-for-drink-driving-1.1797349

Two Cent · 16-05-2014 8:46am

Santa Cruz wrote: »

Dream on honey. The more things change the more they stay the same. If you believe anything different you are a fool

I would ask if you could refrain for the personal insults please. I am and have no intension of becoming a fool...
I haven't been wrong on things so far...
For Political reasons, yep Political, the next commis will not be from AGS .. And I can assure you, a representative group from the reserves will be pollity asking for a meeting. The day for bashing the reserve is over. If I were ye, I would be more concerned with the current crisis that seems to be multiplying every week now.... And that's before any reserve has contributed to the wrongs we see while on duty .
Let's wait now and see how all this pans out.... Interesting times ahead folks.

Shady Tady · 17-05-2014 10:05am

An outside commissioner may well see the reserve as surplus to requirements and ineffective and put the resources it takes into CPD or fulltime training, be careful what you wish for!

bluetop · 17-05-2014 1:33pm

Shady Tady wrote: »

An outside commissioner may well see the reserve as surplus to requirements and ineffective and put the resources it takes into CPD or fulltime training, be careful what you wish for!

Cant see that happening nobody in their right mind is going to get rid of 1400 reserve garda that give their time for FREE!! and are already trained up, ok not on all aspects but enough to be able to be utilised properly, maybe they might even go the way the UK model is, then everyone would be happy.

If and i say if they go the other way then we will all know whats what, been stuck in limbo is worse, either give them powers fit for purpose or get rid either way something has to change, hopefully for the better.

timwynne · 17-05-2014 2:12pm

Shady Tady wrote: »

An outside commissioner may well see the reserve as surplus to requirements and ineffective and put the resources it takes into CPD or fulltime training, be careful what you wish for!

wow

new commissioner coming in to scrap a resource of 1200+ people?

not a hope

a new commissioner could be the dawn of a new reserve

I envisage GRs becoming resources for community policing units. a great way to harness that enthusiasm and energy

King Ludvig · 17-05-2014 6:52pm

The reserve is provided for by law. Only the Oireachtas can scrap it. Commissioner, whether civvy or drawn from the ranks, has no power to do so.

Shady Tady · 17-05-2014 7:37pm

King Ludvig wrote: »

The reserve is provided for by law. Only the Oireachtas can scrap it. Commissioner, whether civvy or drawn from the ranks, has no power to do so.

They can just run it down, there are plenty laws on the statute that are not used or relevant

bluetop · 17-05-2014 10:25pm

Shady Tady wrote: »

They can just run it down, there are plenty laws on the statute that are not used or relevant

Well they cant make it any worse then it is now, unless they scrap it, and i just see the media 1400 Garda Reserves put on the scrap heap, that will make great headlines not to mention waves for the ministers.

As i have said fix it or dump it as it stands now its a waste of 1400 members and with resources as low as they are they should be trying to embrace the force, not alienate it.

Mc Jakester · 01-06-2014 4:56pm

Need I say anymore, we are still 10 years behind the U.K.

But here's what the lads are doing across the water !....

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=aBOiFF7IJAs

Shady Tady · 01-06-2014 9:40pm

Mc Jakester wrote: »

Need I say anymore, we are still 10 years behind the U.K.

But here's what the lads are doing across the water !....

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=aBOiFF7IJAs

Well if they are doing it we must do it!!

bluetop · 01-06-2014 10:16pm

Shady Tady wrote: »

Well if they are doing it we must do it!!

Are we afraid of change as that is what is coming across here, stuck in time.

Shady Tady · 01-06-2014 11:27pm

bluetop wrote: »

Are we afraid of change as that is what is coming across here, stuck in time.

Change isn't always good, a bit more life experience will teach you that!

bluetop · 02-06-2014 12:52am

Shady Tady wrote: »

Change isn't always good, a bit more life experience will teach you that!

I think on this occasion an exception is necessary to bring the force into the 21st century and more in line with other forces, as for life experience you are learning it every day of your life till you die.

Richard · 02-06-2014 12:56am

I think they should wear blue shirts.

Kevin3 · 04-06-2014 8:34am

Mc Jakester wrote: »

Need I say anymore, we are still 10 years behind the U.K.

But here's what the lads are doing across the water !....

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=aBOiFF7IJAs

Special Constables have full police powers though. Garda Reserves are more similar to PCSOs in that they have very limited powers. Also Special Constables are completely unpaid while Garda Reserves recieve a yearly allowance.

Peppa Cig · 04-06-2014 11:06am

Kevin3 wrote: »

Special Constables have full police powers though. Garda Reserves are more similar to PCSOs in that they have very limited powers. Also Special Constables are completely unpaid while Garda Reserves recieve a yearly allowance.

Many constabularies pay/give allowances to Specials. Garda Reserves are attested with full powers as per the 2005 Act. The commissioner decides when to release particular powers.

Separate uniforms for GR.. Yes/No....

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