TV Inspector Pays A Visit

Ulsterman 1690 · 12-11-2005 10:33am

What if I take the telly up to the top field for some DXing, do I need a field license? And if I take it there on a bicycle, a bicycle license.

The law in Ireland is actually unclear on TV's outdoors. If you have a TV in your car you are supposed to have a seperate licence for it TECHNICALLY even if the car is just being used to move the TV from one place to another (and yes that even includes the shop where you bought it) The fact that the TV isint being used in the car is besides the point since the law in Ireland is based on possesion rather than use. Irish law in relation to TV in caravans is also unclear.

Of course on could dismiss the requirement to have a TV licence for your car while you bring the TV home from the shop (The legalities of carrying it home on the bus are also unclear) as over-technical legalistic nitpicking but then this is the sort of attitude that leads to planning corruption, Child abuse and cannibalism :rolleyes:

watty · 12-11-2005 11:16am

I beleive there is a distinction between a mobile caravan and a non-mobile, mobile home. The later would count as a holiday or 2nd home for TV licence purposes.

Ownership of TV does NOT require licence. One being transported under no interpretation would require a licence. It you can prove the TV can't be watched (no aerial or no mains plug or no mains supply) it does not need a licence.

In UK they don't require a TV that is using its own internal battery to have a licence, but one on external power (even if it is charging internal batteries from Car) does need a licence, so in UK a pphone with DVB-h (need not at all be a 3G phone) does not need a licence.

I have no idea what law here on TV in car or pocket TV is, except:
1) Very small area of ROI has good enough coverage for a pocket TV, which is why at one stage retailers in Limericjk stopped selling them, too many complaints!

2) A video or TV screen must not be viewable by the driver. For this logic in UK car Radios must not be capable of animated RDS or animated DAB text , on static text. One wonders about some of the radios with animated graphic display and on the GPS mapping. I suspect that some of the GPS units could be dangerours to use for the driver while driving.

So Ithink, Mr. Ulsterman 1690 that while an earlier post was very sussinct, your last post finds nits where there is only clean hair.

Ulsterman 1690 · 12-11-2005 12:14pm

Watty read the text of your television licence It allows you to POSSESS a television. Whether you actually operate, install, watch or even plug it in doesnt matter diddly squat IRISH WIRELESS TELEGRAPHY LAW IS BASED ON POSSESION NOT USE. Note the Irish television licence also can be issued in respect of an address OR a vehicle registration number but not both hence the (admititedly technical legalistic nitpicky) requirement to have a licence for any vehicle you keep a TV set in for any length of time even if its just for the purpose of transporting the damn thing.

As for whether TV licence evasion is the beginning of a slippery slope of lawless attitudes that leads to planning corruption, child abuse and whatever-youre-having-yourself Well there was certainly a grain of truth in your comment but just like the television licencing legislation can if over rigorously interpreted lead to all manner of nit picky absurdity.

As mush of the discussion on this thread demonstrates

bungeecork · 13-11-2005 2:14am

RainyDay wrote:

(...)it would more sense to buy a cheap telly for the holiday home(...)The owner(s) of the home could get a single licence to cover it.

But not contents insurance to protect it. Insurance companies don't insure holiday homes (unless they are permanently occupied) and we've had several break-ins over the years, thats why we bring the tellys with us.

Rippy · 13-11-2005 1:51pm

Bond-007 wrote:

So by your reckoning possesion of a sky digibox and nothing else would need a licence?

How about digibox or other sat reciever used solely for radio , if no TV set is present in the house? Or VCR used just for audio recording?

I carry a portable TV in my van for checking reception when installing aerials on new houses where no TV is present. Should I have A TV licence issued under the van's registration number and would that cover me to operate the TV in these unlicensed houses?

How about the common pratice of using 14'' portable TVs as CCTV monitors? This is because it is usually cheaper to buy a portable telly than a dedicated monitor. No aerial, no licence?

It is a legal minefield and I am sure no prosecutions would be brought on anybody using "wireless telegraphy equipment " in any of these ways due to the can of worms it would open.

Our man in Havana · 13-11-2005 2:08pm

How about the common pratice of using 14'' portable TVs as CCTV monitors? This is because it is usually cheaper to buy a portable telly than a dedicated monitor. No aerial, no licence?

The tuner has to be removed to beat the licence in that case.

Ulsterman 1690 · 13-11-2005 2:16pm

Under Irish WT law Bond is spot on

Sat reciever used soley for radio doesnt need a licence (having said that most modern sat recievers being kinda over reliant on on-screen menus would be kinda difficult to operate without being connected to a TV/monitor/display of some sort which would immediately invalidate any claims of it being solely an audio reciever)

Video recorder for audio recording .....ummmm I guess youd have to remove the TV tuner from it

TV in van. Yes strictly speaking under Irish law you should have a licence for it

RE: Multiple occupancy of a holiday home it would actully only be necessary for the occupants to purchace one licence between them in respect of the home itself (although going back into nit-picky mode that still wouldnt cover the vehicle or vehicles used for transporting the TV's to and from the holiday home)

You know If RTE were willing (and able) to actually enforce the more extreme nit-picky apects of TV licencing law they could probably end up being able to run without advertising

but then again they would probaly just blow it all on overpaid chatshow hosts :rolleyes:

watty · 13-11-2005 7:31pm

No I have had past contact with TV licence people. A TV with plug cut off deosn not count as possing a TV. We had put away our TV for about 2 years as an experiment (saved money too!).

The reality is if any apparatus is used for TV watching (3G phones is video clips not TV watching) you need a licence. If TV apparatus can't be used at all for watching TV, then it isn't a TV Apparatus under the act.

RTE does not enforce the Licence. Not their job.

Ulsterman 1690 · 13-11-2005 7:58pm

No I have had past contact with TV licence people. A TV with plug cut off deosn not count as possing a TV

Youre absolutely right but thats not what is says on the Oasis misinformation site :rolleyes:

RTE does not enforce the Licence. Not their job

Yes they contract it out to post office and I bow to your superior nitpicking skills

ixtlan · 14-11-2005 2:50pm

Getting back to the core of the matter...

Longfield should pay for a license. Almost everyone on the forum agrees I think on that point from an ethical and legal point of view.

Based on the response of the inspector, he probably will not get a summons... The guy was obviously too confused on the setup, but we pretty much all agree that he should have told Longfield that a license was required regardless of what channels are watched.

I think it's not 100% accurate to call Longfeld a sponger. He does have a point that he's not using the TV service, though he may listen to RTE radio. It may be more accurate, though I know it sounds harsh, to call him a tax evader.

It's harsh perhaps because the license is promoted as a service charge, whereas it is not really. Because it affects everyone it's really a tax. Longfield sees it as a service charge, and understandably doesn't want to pay... Unfortunately, the reality is that it's a poorly set up tax which seeks to subsidise public TV and radio broadcasting for the entire population.

To deny the charge (unless you really never watch TV) is a bit like refusing the pay the portion of your tax that might go to roads, because you walk, or the schools budget because you have no kids, or the funds to sport because you don't play and so on and so on.

Longfield... sorry... pay up.

Ix.

watty · 14-11-2005 8:36pm

Yes it isn't really a "Service charge" but a tax on TV viewing. Historically Governments aways tax new developments to raise more money. The Road "Tax" disc is also just a atx, not really connected to Transport services.

At least they don't tax windows and hearths anymore.

Supercell · 14-11-2005 8:46pm

In fairness, if the govt owned up and called an apple an apple ..ie a tv tax..then i'd pay up.
But calling it a license fee to pay for RTE which I can't receive, continues to be my bone of contention, I honestly believe that i'm in the right not having to pay for it as with my current setup , viewing RTE TV is impossible.
Thus if i get a threatening letter, i'll take legal advice on it and act accordingly.

Bobby bear · 22-11-2005 3:46pm

If I receive a summons for the non payment of a television licence, can I buy one before the court date or will I still be fined? If the television and licence are in my girlfriends name will I get away without the fine?

RangeR · 22-11-2005 4:16pm

Bobby bear wrote:

If I receive a summons for the non payment of a television licence, can I buy one before the court date or will I still be fined? If the television and licence are in my girlfriends name will I get away without the fine?

So you actually ARE a sponger?

secret_squirrel · 22-11-2005 7:04pm

Bobby bear wrote:

If the television and licence are in my girlfriends name will I get away without the fine?

Its the address thats important - not the name. If you move house you can take your license with you by getting the address changed.

Capt'n Midnight · 22-11-2005 8:08pm

BrianD wrote:

My apologies! You can see the economies of scale that the BBC enjoy. Having said that their licence fee pays for: two national terrestrial tv stations, [ We've got 3 ,TG4 ] another 4 digital tv stns [ while BB3/4 CBBC and CBBEBIES are good they have very little content that isn't shown on BBC1/2 ] , 4 national radio stations [RTE1/2, Lyric,RnaG], a local radio network, a world service [radio by Sat and LW finally] , digital radio channels, a huge news serviceI'm so glad we have an independent news service unlike say the US. ], orchestras [do we still have two orchestras don't we?] and that's probably just the obvious stuff. They also have a huge resources business unit (OB trucks, camera platforms etc) that the rest of the industry uses.

Don't forget that the BBC are big into merchandising and have been for decades and have massive worldwide exports of programs. RTE probably haven't had a rdecent money spinner since "Leave it to Mrs O'Brien" was big in Nigera.

And of course RTE got stuck with Eurosong for most of the 90's

Greenman · 22-11-2005 8:33pm

Capt'n Midnight wrote:

Don't forget that the BBC are big into merchandising and have been for decades and have massive worldwide exports of programs. RTE probably haven't had a rdecent money spinner since "Leave it to Mrs O'Brien" was big in Nigera.

And of course RTE got stuck with Eurosong for most of the 90's

Off course if RTE got of their backsides they'd learn how well they're stuff would go down overseas!!!
Look at Riverdance etc.
RTE just don't see it!!!
Rant over!!!

BrianD · 22-11-2005 8:56pm

Longfield wrote:

In fairness, if the govt owned up and called an apple an apple ..ie a tv tax..then i'd pay up.
But calling it a license fee to pay for RTE which I can't receive, continues to be my bone of contention, I honestly believe that i'm in the right not having to pay for it as with my current setup , viewing RTE TV is impossible.
Thus if i get a threatening letter, i'll take legal advice on it and act accordingly.

In fairness, the RTE have responded fairly to those in areas where their analogue signals can not be received. Other delivery platforms now exist - Sky Digital/CATV/MMDS so that 'defense' doesn't hold much water. Especially as the RTE transmission network is to be sold off so no matter how you receive RTE it will be through a third party.

Watty wrote:

Yes it isn't really a "Service charge" but a tax on TV viewing. Historically Governments aways tax new developments to raise more money. The Road "Tax" disc is also just a atx, not really connected to Transport services.

Big difference. Road tax has usually disappeared into the exchequer and used for other purposes besides building and maintaining roads. Apart from the collection fee, the revenues raised by the TV licence have always gone straight to RTE.

In regard to merchandising, I'm surprised how few titles they have available for sale on their web site. In the absence of an 'international service, this should be a gold mine for them.

Eurorunner · 22-11-2005 9:32pm

BrianD wrote:

In fairness, the RTE have responded fairly to those in areas where their analogue signals can not be received. Other delivery platforms now exist - Sky Digital/CATV/MMDS so that 'defense' doesn't hold much water.

In fairness they havnt. In this day and age, its still hard to pull in a decent analog picture. I have a flaky analog rte picture in marked contrast to the crisp Digital Satellite BBC/ITV picture.

kiss103 · 23-11-2005 3:16pm

Sponge Bob wrote:

Dunno DMC. IIRC persons around the border who could not get RTE but could get BBC were exemped from licences, can anyone remember this in Donegal / Inishown side in the 1960s and 1970s , teh law dates from 1960 or so. Once RTE put a relay in they were liable.

Unless you have a SKY sub or an Tuner (or DTT card in S Dublin) you cannot receive RTE , period.

The symphony orchestra issue is bollix IMO, they are mainly on the radio for which there is no licence any more

Didn't apply to Monaghan town where you couldn't recieve RTE until mid eighties , a woman went to court over this and she lost , fee is for recieving TV , RTE are just the lucky reciepients , no matter how much people procrastinate here , the law is clear and rte reception is irrelevant

BrianD · 23-11-2005 4:42pm

Eurorunner wrote:

In fairness they havnt. In this day and age, its still hard to pull in a decent analog picture. I have a flaky analog rte picture in marked contrast to the crisp Digital Satellite BBC/ITV picture.

Well since you are 6000 miles from paradise, I'm not surprised!!:D

I do recall seeing reports from time to time that the some leniency was given in areas where there was known issues. Also in many places RTE have gone out of their way to provide a signal to a handful of houses in some places. Also you have to accept that there are some conditions that you will never be able to get a decent signal. Some people don't help themselves either - few people use an external aerial for RTE reception while this is commonplace in the UK. Also, if you have crisp picture for BBC/ITV via satellite have you not the same for RTE (assuming that you are on Sky Digital)? You are not really comparing like for like.

dam099 · 24-11-2005 11:45pm

Molly Dawson wrote:

When I purchased a TV Tuner Card for my PC the cashier said 'I'm afraid I must ask you for your full name and address. Your TV Tuner Card requires a TV license'. That is the law in the UK.

Longford! Where you asked or told this when you purchased your TV Tuner Card? The retailer here in the UK must inform the licensing authority the details of the sale. This is probably why you got a visit.

Macy wrote:

Isn't the law here, not even for Telly's never mind tuner cards.

Actually it is according to the 1972 act unless it's been repealed?

Sponge Bob · 25-11-2005 1:13am

BrianD wrote:

few people use an external aerial for RTE reception while this is commonplace in the UK. You are not really comparing like for like.

You would have to have an IGNORANT sized external aerial in the UK to pick up RTÉ

, but yes it would be external not internal.

Ulsterman 1690 · 25-11-2005 1:28am

You would have to have an IGNORANT sized external aerial in the UK to pick up RTÉ

Ahem Ahem I live in the UK and get RTE (albeit snowy) on an 18 element aerial and Im sure theres places near the border that can get quite watchable RTE on an indoor aerial. On the UK mainland there are (If you take a look at NC's coverage maps thread) costal areas of Wales and Even Scotland that seem to have a reasonable RTE signal just like theres lats of people in SE Ireland picking up TV from Wales

Eurorunner · 26-11-2005 10:00pm

BrianD wrote:

Some people don't help themselves either - few people use an external aerial for RTE reception while this is commonplace in the UK. Also, if you have crisp picture for BBC/ITV via satellite have you not the same for RTE (assuming that you are on Sky Digital)? You are not really comparing like for like.

You wouldnt catch anything other than snow in most of rural ireland with a pair of rabbit ears!

I am not, never have been and never will be a Sky subscriber. I am receiving BBC/ITV Free to Air via Satellite. And your damn right - I am not comparing like with like - fussy analog picture in comparison to crisp digital audio & picture...no comparison at all!

BrianD · 27-11-2005 12:40am

Sponge Bob wrote:

You would have to have an IGNORANT sized external aerial in the UK to pick up RTÉ , but yes it would be external not internal.

Just to clarify ... I was stating that most people in the UK use an external aerial to receive their analogie channels. I don;t think this is the norm in Ireland. Eurorunner - you are not comparing like with like.

DMC · 27-11-2005 10:46am

Dunno where you are getting those stats, but I can assure you, that there are a lot of outdoor aerials around the country, and that is the norm rather than the exception.

One example. You dont get that many UHF aerials for RTÉ in Longford, because Carn Hill is so close. You get rigs for Brougher, but (depending on location) they are not too huge for the UK stations.

But, all around my home in North Co. Meath, you get a lot of people with either VHF aerials to pick up Kippure or smaller UHF aerials to get Three Rock or Clermont Carn, along with the usual array for the UK stations, normally from Divis (but some for Brougher.) A lot of people still depend on their outdoor rig for the Irish channels.

In Dublin, a house with an external UHF or VHF antenna is rare enough.

dts · 28-11-2005 5:15pm

So why do we have to pay RTE for a TV license? In the UK BBC dont advertise so have to be financed by the public through the TV license. Here RTE make money through putting us through all the usual crappy adverts so why do they also get the money from a TV license?

RangeR · 28-11-2005 6:07pm

I would assume, economies of scale. RTE get FAR less revenue from the TV Licence tax than the BBC do. So they need to suppliment it somehow. Also adds are less frequent on RTE compared to commercial channels, as far as I know.
Well, at least they used to be.

DMC · 28-11-2005 6:34pm

dts wrote:

So why do we have to pay RTE for a TV license? In the UK BBC dont advertise so have to be financed by the public through the TV license. Here RTE make money through putting us through all the usual crappy adverts so why do they also get the money from a TV license?

Welcome along to page 7 of this thread.

The maths were mentioned earlier.

DMC · 28-11-2005 6:35pm

IrishTLR wrote:

I would assume, economies of scale. RTE get FAR less revenue from the TV Licence tax than the BBC do. So they need to suppliment it somehow. Also adds are less frequent on RTE compared to commercial channels, as far as I know.
Well, at least they used to be.

Yep, they still are.

TV Inspector Pays A Visit

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