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Emergencies - humans or robots ?

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    #2
    Zambia
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,333 ✭✭✭Zambia


    Capri wrote: »
    Chap in the UK died of gallstones because 999 operator followed computer generated questions and procedeures instead of human reactions and refused to send an ambulance
    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2795576/call-unconscious-999-call-handler-told-gallstones-patient-pleaded-ambulance-dying-agony-carer-having-heart-attack.html

    Three days? What was he doing for three days?

    Did he not see anyone else?

    Granted an ambulance should have been sent but ffs if that fails you call a gp or grab a cab to the doctor.

    The refusal to send ambulances comes from the widespread abuse of the service.

    Tragic case


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    #3
    Little CuChulainn
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,624 ✭✭✭Little CuChulainn


    This is something which will happen when procedure is prioritised over skill and training. Follow the procedure and you are covered. Follow your intuition and you're on your own if you are wrong.


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    #4
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Hold on. How often do we give out about ambulances being sent out to people who don't actually need them? Why isn't blame being placed on the GP? They should be more used to this type of case. Did the controller/gp service know of the patients physical/mental issues? Did they know he had a carer? It's not simply that a computer system failed, more like a care system.


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    #5
    Schindlers Pissed
    Registered Users Posts: 221 ✭✭Schindlers Pissed


    This was a systems failure. He didn't meet the criteria for an ambulance at the time of the call, I agree with that. He got the proper advice re abdo pain. He should've made his way to his GP or on call doctor but chose not to.

    3 days later he rings 999 and he DOES meet the criteria for an ambulance. He gets an ambulance. Unfortunately it's too late and he suffers a cardiac arrest.

    There's no way can you lay the blame on the call taker for a person who doesn't follow advice and you can't hold a person responsible for a chain of events that come to a conclusion three days later.

    I would welcome a system like that in Ireland where not every ingrown toenail and drunk, along with the abuse of ambulance services by the on call doctor system has the available resources run ragged night after night.


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    #6
    Thoie
    Registered Users Posts: 6,344 ✭✭✭Thoie


    Schindlers Pissed wrote: »
    This was a systems failure. He didn't meet the criteria for an ambulance at the time of the call, I agree with that. He got the proper advice re abdo pain. He should've made his way to his GP or on call doctor but chose not to.

    It says he suffered from both physical and mental issues - I don't think it was necessarily a case that he chose not to, more that he wasn't able to.

    It's all very well to say "get a cab" or "call a friend", but not everyone can afford a cab, or has friends/family that they can get the money or a lift from. I'm lucky enough in that I have good neighbours and a local cab company that knows me. If I was in that position I'd manage to get to the doctor either with the help of the neighbours, or as a last resort, calling a cab and promising to pay them later. Not everyone has those relationships.

    I'd be more inclined to blame the GP service for not digging into things a bit further - the man knew he had gallstones and the GP even says that in hindsight he should have asked a few more questions. It sounds like the GP just phoned and said "come in" and left it at that.


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    #7
    AlekSmart
    Registered Users Posts: 14,005 ✭✭✭✭AlekSmart


    Schindlers Pissed wrote: »
    .

    I would welcome a system like that in Ireland where not every ingrown toenail and drunk, along with the abuse of ambulance services by the on call doctor system has the available resources run ragged night after night.

    Can you elaborate a bit on this issue ?


    Men, it has been well said, think in herds; it will be seen that they go mad in herds, while they only recover their senses slowly, and one by one.

    Charles Mackay (1812-1889)



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    #8
    Schindlers Pissed
    Registered Users Posts: 221 ✭✭Schindlers Pissed


    Indeed. I don't think the system works. An on call doctor doesn't know a patients true medical history......they can only act on what they see. For instance, supposing a person calls in with Abdo pain but is normally short of breath due to a lung condition......a lot of times the pt is sent in for investigation of his SOB......even though it's baseline for that particular person.

    Or......sending an emergency ambulance out for a person who has no transport. A big yellow taxi.

    Or......sending emergency ambulances out for chest pains that aren't "cardiac chest pains"......you can have a pain in your "chest" for any number of reasons but it never seems to be investigated properly.


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