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Dublin to Cork Express Coach

  • 03-03-2012 8:58pm
    #1
    devnull
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 11,686 Mod ✭✭✭✭


    On VERY good authority, it will be operated by GoBus.ie in the very near future.


«13

Comments

  • #2
    DalkeyResident
    Closed Accounts Posts: 33 ✭DalkeyResident


    <deleted>


  • #3
    foggy_lad
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,373 ✭✭✭✭foggy_lad


    DalkeyResident wrote: »
    The final nail in the coffin for Aircoach - a British Company.

    All of Dalkey would like to wish GoBus.ie, an IRISH COMPANY all the best in the future in creating IRISH JOBS for IRISH PEOPLE.
    Not at all DalkeyResident, it is more the final nail in the coffin for Irish Rail. The only company who will lose passengers will be Irish Rail/CIE


  • #4
    devnull
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 11,686 Mod ✭✭✭✭devnull


    It will hit all three to be honest, Aircoach, Bus Eireann AND Irish Rail.


  • #5
    foggy_lad
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,373 ✭✭✭✭foggy_lad


    devnull wrote: »
    It will hit all three to be honest, Aircoach, Bus Eireann AND Irish Rail.
    Only a very small portion of bus Eireann passengers on the number 8 service are going all the way, most are travelling to towns on the route like Cashel, Cahir, Mitchelstown, Durrow, Abbeyleix etc.

    An Express service will take passengers from the train as those are paying a premium for the comfort of the train and the faster journey and many are only on the train because they have booked in advance and availed of the few cheaper fares available.


  • #6
    Judgement Day
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,549 ✭✭✭✭Judgement Day


    Yes, but we must bow down to great God of competition free-for-all. How much more competition does this poxy country need? We all have too many airports, airlines serving them to provide subsidised regional air services, Bus Eireann and private operators competing with IE - not to mention private motorists.


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  • #7
    coolperson05
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 280 ✭✭coolperson05


    Roll on Waterford-Dublin....Direct!! :D


  • #8
    foggy_lad
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,373 ✭✭✭✭foggy_lad


    coolperson05 wrote: »
    Roll on Waterford-Dublin....Direct!! :D
    They would have to stop in Carlow for some class:p


  • #9
    KCAccidental
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,492 ✭✭✭KCAccidental


    looks great


  • #10
    coolperson05
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 280 ✭✭coolperson05


    foggy_lad wrote: »
    They would have to stop in Carlow for some class:p

    Class?? :P I jest!

    Ok, Waterford-Carlow-Dublin!

    But we don't need that 15min stop there for a toilet break! We can hold it till the quays!!

    Someone make it happen! - even Irish Rail! (at a reasonable time! Not 7.10)


  • #11
    bk
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 22,985 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    This is fantastic news, I couldn't hope for a better company to run a direct non stop Cork-Dublin service. Their Galway service is superb, this is the company that proved high quality intercity coach travel in Ireland :D

    I can't wait to use it.
    foggy_lad wrote: »
    Only a very small portion of bus Eireann passengers on the number 8 service are going all the way, most are travelling to towns on the route like Cashel, Cahir, Mitchelstown, Durrow, Abbeyleix etc.

    Then why do Bus Eireann lay on direct non stop services to Dublin at peak times on Fridays and Sundays with full buses?

    Because many people can't afford the train and are going all the way to Dublin. This will definitely take passengers from BE, Aircoach and Irish Rail.

    It will pretty much take all the BE and Aircoach passengers going to Dublin. Guaranteed fast direct service (no chancing an extra direct bus with BE) and if they use the same high quality buses with on board toilets and wifi, they will be big advantages.

    Irish Rail will be devastated by this, as a regular Cork-Dublin train user, I know I will never use this service again once GoBus starts.

    At 3 or 4 times cheaper, it makes no sense to continue to use Irish Rail IMO. And I believe you will see a large percentage of people make the same decision. This is borne out by Irish Rails recent report, it found it's share of the Cork to Dublin market is (40% Rail, 10% bus), but Galway is (25% Rail, 25% Bus).

    Expect to see the same shift in the Cork to Dublin and also Limerick corridor.
    Judgement Day wrote: »
    Yes, but we must bow down to great God of competition free-for-all. How much more competition does this poxy country need? We all have too many airports, airlines serving them to provide subsidised regional air services, Bus Eireann and private operators competing with IE - not to mention private motorists.

    This sort of thinking makes no sense. So lets see we built a fantastic new motorway network at the cost of billions and you are saying we shouldn't use it to it's maximum potential as it might hurt poor old Irish Rail.

    Madness.

    You are saying that we shouldn't allow a new company enter the market that will offer people tickets 3 to 4 times cheaper then IR and will cost the taxpayer ZERO to enter the market.

    Any ordinary person would be delighted to see this service launch, only an Irish Rail (or BE/Aircoach) employee or rail fan could have this opinion, knowing that Rail just can't compete.


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  • #12
    devnull
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 11,686 Mod ✭✭✭✭devnull


    foggy_lad wrote: »
    Only a very small portion of bus Eireann passengers on the number 8 service are going all the way, most are travelling to towns on the route like Cashel, Cahir, Mitchelstown, Durrow, Abbeyleix etc.

    An Express service will take passengers from the train as those are paying a premium for the comfort of the train and the faster journey and many are only on the train because they have booked in advance and availed of the few cheaper fares available.

    Maybe so - but it's still going to hit the operators to some degree where they will have to cut back somewhat because it'll be harder to achieve the passenger numbers and yields that previously made the service viable which could cause some cutbacks in regard to their timetables.

    There are some people who will use Bus Eireann all the time though, the number of people who are happy to pay for a standard 20 bus between Dublin and Galway still astonishes me when there are much better alternatives. But people seem loyal to them. I'm not sure the same is the case with Aircoach and it certainly isn't with Irish Rail.


  • #13
    Judgement Day
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,549 ✭✭✭✭Judgement Day


    bk wrote: »
    This is fantastic news, I couldn't hope for a better company to run a direct non stop Cork-Dublin service. Their Galway service is superb, this is the company that proved high quality intercity coach travel in Ireland :D

    I can't wait to use it.



    Then why do Bus Eireann lay on direct non stop services to Dublin at peak times on Fridays and Sundays with full buses?

    Because many people can't afford the train and are going all the way to Dublin. This will definitely take passengers from BE, Aircoach and Irish Rail.

    It will pretty much take all the BE and Aircoach passengers going to Dublin. Guaranteed fast direct service (no chancing an extra direct bus with BE) and if they use the same high quality buses with on board toilets and wifi, they will be big advantages.

    Irish Rail will be devastated by this, as a regular Cork-Dublin train user, I know I will never use this service again once GoBus starts.

    At 3 or 4 times cheaper, it makes no sense to continue to use Irish Rail IMO. And I believe you will see a large percentage of people make the same decision. This is borne out by Irish Rails recent report, it found it's share of the Cork to Dublin market is (40% Rail, 10% bus), but Galway is (25% Rail, 25% Bus).

    Expect to see the same shift in the Cork to Dublin and also Limerick corridor.



    This sort of thinking makes no sense. So lets see we built a fantastic new motorway network at the cost of billions and you are saying we shouldn't use it to it's maximum potential as it might hurt poor old Irish Rail.

    Madness.

    You are saying that we shouldn't allow a new company enter the market that will offer people tickets 3 to 4 times cheaper then IR and will cost the taxpayer ZERO to enter the market.

    Any ordinary person would be delighted to see this service launch, only an Irish Rail (or BE/Aircoach) employee or rail fan could have this opinion, knowing that Rail just can't compete.

    I'm afraid that I find it hard to take anything you post seriously as for a 'regular Cork - Dublin train user' you seem to have a seriously anti-rail mentality. Have you ever posted anything in favour of rail? Link please.


  • #14
    dub_commuter
    Closed Accounts Posts: 419 ✭✭dub_commuter


    bk wrote: »
    This is fantastic news, I couldn't hope for a better company to run a direct non stop Cork-Dublin service. Their Galway service is superb, this is the company that proved high quality intercity coach travel in Ireland :D

    It seems they will use Volvo 9700's, these vehicles delivered in 2012 differ to the 2011 ones in that they have no branding for the Galway service, now we know why, they are to be used on a different service. They are going to need a depot somewhere in Cork or Dublin you would say though, perhaps they will be the ultimate bad company and betray the private sector, team up with Bus Eireann again.

    If it's not bad enough to have Aircoach on the route, now we have Gobus with the most horrible uncomfortable yet modern coaches I've ever had the fortune to be on. The seating is tiered, which basically means at the front there is lots of head room as the panel is above your head very high, but as the seats are going up on a slight slope, those at the back have very little headroom.

    If you are Under 6ft and sit near the front they are good. If you sit near the back or are taller than this you are in trouble. The seat recline moves the bottom part of the seat forward, not backwards, but the back part moves backward and the seats are terribly uncomfortable if you happen to be tall. At least the coaches Aircoach use on the Cork run have decent legroom and none of this tiered seating crap which is a nightmare for tall people (I'm 6ft1.5)

    From reading on this board, and from the rumours I told many people about the situation that Aircoach were in a while ago and everyone laughed at me, it seems that the rumours about loss making were right, and as such they couldn't really take a risk with such service.


  • #15
    bk
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 22,985 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    Judgement Day wrote: »
    I'm afraid that I find it hard to take anything you post seriously as for a 'regular Cork - Dublin train user' you seem to have a seriously anti-rail mentality. Have you ever posted anything in favour of rail? Link please.

    I will be taking the train to Dublin this evening, I'll post a picture of my ticket if you like. Been using Cork to Dublin monthly for the past 10 years.

    But here is the thing, I couldn't give a crap about rail, or bus or car or plane.

    Like 99% of people I'm just a commuter who wants to travel from A to B in the most cost effect, fastest and efficient manner possible *.

    * Of course you rarely get all three in one mode of travel, so it is a balance between different peoples needs.

    I couldn't care less if that is bus, rail or flipping teleporter.

    I can point to many posts where I'm in big fan of DART Underground (and DART and commuter rail in general), Metro North, Luas, etc.

    I'm also big fan of rail freight where it makes sense, like in the US and high speed intercity rail travel between large cities in Europe.

    The thing is I have ZERO emotional attachment to rail (or buses, planes, etc.), it is just one of many ways of getting me to where I need to be. I look at all of this from the point of view of what is the fastest and most cost effective way to move people around Ireland. I'm interested in infrastructure, but I bring an engineers perspective to it. I look at the cost of operating rail versus buses and the speeds achievable and make my judgements based on logic.

    It maybe cold and logical, it may not be very romantic, but I keep my romance for the bedroom!


  • #16
    Judgement Day
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,549 ✭✭✭✭Judgement Day


    bk - I'm somewhat amused that you're a big fan of DART Underground given your lack of belief in the future of intercity rail travel. Do you really think that it would worth spending a fortune on DART Underground just to link the existing DART lines with a surviving commuter line to Kildare - as by your predictions inter-city rail west of there will have gone the way of the Dodo?


  • #17
    KCAccidental
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,492 ✭✭✭KCAccidental


    Judgement Day wrote: »
    bk - I'm somewhat amused that you're a big fan of DART Underground given your lack of belief in the future of intercity rail travel. Do you really think that it would worth spending a fortune on DART Underground just to link the existing DART lines with a surviving commuter line to Kildare - as by your predictions inter-city rail west of there will have gone the way of the Dodo?

    you could always make Heuston a InterCity bus hub. plenty of connections from there and it wouldnt have to crawl down the quays. with the dart underground, commuter service and Luas sounds like the perfect Hub! :pac:


  • #18
    markpb
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,342 ✭✭✭markpb


    Judgement Day wrote: »
    bk - I'm somewhat amused that you're a big fan of DART Underground given your lack of blah, blah, blah

    Do you think it would be possible for you to try to keep your posts even remotely related to the title? Jesus.

    I wonder how long the estimated journey time is?

    I think this is great news for travellers and terrible news for Irish Rail - I'm sure they'll struggle along thanks to people who won't change, won't be aware of it or prefer the train and can afford to plan ahead or pay for it.

    If only the NTA would/could pilfer state assets back from CIE and turn Bus Aras into a public bus depot for all operators. I'm no fan of the building but it's in a good location and it makes more sense to use it as much as logistically possible instead of having more intercity buses sitting on the kerbside.


  • #19
    bk
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 22,985 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    markpb wrote: »
    I think this is great news for travellers

    JD's stuff is all OT and irrelevant, markpb's comment above is all that matters.

    In these hard recessionary times, when money is tight, travelers having a new, cheap, almost as fast option is fantastic news for all those travelers :D


  • #20
    KCAccidental
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,492 ✭✭✭KCAccidental


    I wonder would it be worth DCC investing in Bus station for private operators like they have in Galway?

    one of the drawbacks for some passengers is the lack of facilities for these coach companies while waiting. it's not much fun waiting on a busy footpath with a large suitcase!


  • #21
    dowlingm
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,337 ✭✭✭dowlingm


    I seem to have missed the development of the Coach Station in Galway. Does BE stop there too? It's not like they have any interest in integrating with IE given their tie-up with Gobus.

    As for the increase in express service, if this is how it is then privatise IE now. They will close Nenagh Branch, Limerick Junction-Waterford, Limerick-Galway, Templemore, Ballybrophy and any rural station on single track lines without a passing loop (and maybe some with). The difference is that the private operator will be able to deploy buses with integrated timetables/fares on the former loss making routes or at loss making times on rail routes to create something of a network the way Amtrak does. This combined bus-train entity could be called, um, let me see, the "Irish Transport Company".


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  • #22
    Judgement Day
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,549 ✭✭✭✭Judgement Day


    bk wrote: »
    JD's stuff is all OT and irrelevant, markpb's comment above is all that matters.

    In these hard recessionary times, when money is tight, travelers having a new, cheap, almost as fast option is fantastic news for all those travelers :D

    Bit like your own so - why don't you just start a bus forum instead of posting anti-rail diatribes here? :p


  • #23
    Judgement Day
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,549 ✭✭✭✭Judgement Day


    markpb wrote: »
    Do you think it would be possible for you to try to keep your posts even remotely related to the title? Jesus.

    I wonder how long the estimated journey time is?

    I think this is great news for travellers and terrible news for Irish Rail - I'm sure they'll struggle along thanks to people who won't change, won't be aware of it or prefer the train and can afford to plan ahead or pay for it.

    If only the NTA would/could pilfer state assets back from CIE and turn Bus Aras into a public bus depot for all operators. I'm no fan of the building but it's in a good location and it makes more sense to use it as much as logistically possible instead of having more intercity buses sitting on the kerbside.

    When you're quoting me I would appreciate if you would not alter what I posted..that's if you're capable of it. :rolleyes:


  • #24
    dowlingm
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,337 ✭✭✭dowlingm


    KCAccidental wrote: »
    one of the drawbacks for some passengers is the lack of facilities for these coach companies while waiting. it's not much fun waiting on a busy footpath with a large suitcase!
    Facepalm. I know space is tight in Galway but if you can't wait indoors in that climate...


  • #25
    markpb
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,342 ✭✭✭markpb


    Judgement Day wrote: »
    When you're quoting me I would appreciate if you would not alter what I posted..that's if you're capable of it. :rolleyes:

    You're right, I shouldn't have altered your post, that was wrong of me. However, so far in this thread you've:

    - had a generic rant about competition
    - spouted person abuse about BK
    - went on another rant about BJ and Dart Underground
    - had another go at BK

    but you haven't once mentioned the Cork-Dublin bus or, in fact, bus services at all. At this stage, I'll just add you to my ignore list and bow out of this thread. Apologies mods for going off-topic.


  • #26
    Judgement Day
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,549 ✭✭✭✭Judgement Day


    markpb wrote: »
    You're right, I shouldn't have altered your post, that was wrong of me. However, so far in this thread you've:

    - had a generic rant about competition
    - spouted person abuse about BK
    - went on another rant about BJ and Dart Underground
    - had another go at BK

    but you haven't once mentioned the Cork-Dublin bus or, in fact, bus services at all. At this stage, I'll just add you to my ignore list and bow out of this thread. Apologies mods for going off-topic.

    Oh Whoppeee - you're going to ignore me - as if I care. You have a Mod who posts nothing but anti-rail crap here and when I dare to question him, he dismisses me as irrelevant and does not answer my points. I suspect that I have a longer history of campaigning for better public transport than you and bk put together. Have you visited here yet? http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=126578


  • #27
    foggy_lad
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,373 ✭✭✭✭foggy_lad


    dowlingm wrote: »
    I seem to have missed the development of the Coach Station in Galway. Does BE stop there too? It's not like they have any interest in integrating with IE given their tie-up with Gobus.

    Bus Eireann don't use the new comfortable bus station in Galway at all, they prefer to leave all their passengers and their luggage on a very narrow footpath surrounded by dozens of 13 ton buses right on the doorstep of the railway station!

    If there was any corporate intelligence within Bus Eireann or CIE this extremely dangerous situation would have been sorted out years ago!


  • #28
    kieran4003
    Closed Accounts Posts: 58 ✭✭kieran4003


    The competition is very welcome. Even though I make posts on a pro rail basis, I reject your comment Bk that those of us who may support rail will be the only ones to complain. I am also pro bus however.

    It will be interesting to see what price they will pitch their fares at, the frequency of the service and the journey time. I would guess the fares will be €10 each way, a 2hour frequency & a 3hr 15 mins journey time.

    The Volvo 9700s that Go Bus use are excellent coaches, they have wifi onboard and a toilet I think? They are better then Bus Eireanns SP class used on the Galway route and the Dublin route.

    BE will soon be introducing new extra long VDL Double deck Intercity coaches, with wifi and on the ground floor there will be tables with facing seats. The first one was delivered last week. The Dublin - Belfast route will be fully operated by them while I understand some will be allocated to the Galway - Dublin route in response to competition. New tri axle extra long Scania Irizar i6 class coaches will also be entering service soon. These will take over the Dublin - Cork route and I understand they will also be used on the Limerick - Dublin route in response to the competiton aswell.

    It will be interesting to see what response BE will make to this proposed service. I am not sure if they would launch an X8 service in competition. Or you could see them partner with Go bus like the Galway route. It has worked well for both of them. Go Bus could not manage on its own while for BE it is a case of keeping your enemies close for want of a better term.

    I would not anticipate any action from Irish Rail, They will probaly see what happens though for a while at least. They cannot really lower their fares anymore.

    I understand Aircoach are going raising their fares though, the high fuel costs at the moment are a problem for small independent operators. The story in the bus industry is that aircoach are currently making losses. That is why I can see Go Bus partnering with BE, but I reckon they would together offer a great service and alternative to the train.

    Bk I note you seem to love branding rail fares as being four times the bus fare. This rather puzzles me. Book in advance and you get the cheap fares. People need to get used to the advance booking system, You know to book in advance with Ryanair, It will take time for people to get used to it with the train. Luckily for you BK I have had time today to check the prices of the train fares for the last week in March. If you look at the attached excel sheet, The fares dont look four times the bus fares to me!


  • #29
    KCAccidental
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,492 ✭✭✭KCAccidental


    dowlingm wrote: »
    Facepalm. I know space is tight in Galway but if you can't wait indoors in that climate...

    I think you missed my point. i was referring to the stops for independent intercity buses in Dublin.


  • #30
    bk
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 22,985 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    Good post Kieran, the reason I quote prices of 3 to 4 times higher is because that is the price that the vast majority of passengers pay.

    Remember irishrail prices aren't based on time, they are based on quotas. This means only 5%, 10% or whatever % of people get the lower fares. Where on the bus 100% of people get the lower fare.

    It just isn't comparable.

    Plus to be honest IR's online booking system is totally inflexible:

    - you have to pay both a credit card fee and seat reservation fee
    - if you buy two single tickets, you have to pay the two above fees a second time
    - you have to specify your train journey and return time, no ability to modify your journey

    So for my trip this weekend, it was cheaper and more flexible to just walk into the station and with the same credit card buy a cheaper open monthly return ticket with greater flexibility!! Crazy

    With the bus, no such worries, just stroll up and always get a cheap and flexible ticket.

    This is definitely one area Irish Rail can and should fix, make the online booking cheaper and far more flexible.

    As for the idea that people should just get use to Irish Rails new inflexible airline booking model. That is the thing, people don't have to. IR no matter what they like to think, aren't an airline. Unlike with airlines people do have other options, they can also opt to take the much more flexible car or bus. IR just have to deal with this new reality.

    Btw this is posted from the Cork to Dublin train via wifi :)


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  • #31
    devnull
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 11,686 Mod ✭✭✭✭devnull


    I haven't been on a Volvo 9700 but I've heard that they indeed do have a number of quirks with the seating layout for tall people for someone who is quite tall that is sat near the back, can you tell me how bad this is? Is it similar to the coaches like this that National Express operate? If so then I can't see me liking them.

    The seats that move forward when the back reclines I've experienced on other coaches though, and I must say I am not a fan of it, I quite like the Aircoach Setra's, they are very roomy and comfy, but are too small really with only 44 seats a little too luxury. The 2009 Volvo's are really nice coaches, great seats but no tables which sucks a bit.

    It's good to see that Bus Eireann are upgrading, but if it's only the routes that the privates are competing on them with then that is disappointing because there are other routes that could do with the upgrade too. I too don't see why GoBus.ie would partner with Bus Eireann. In the short term I think it would give both parties a boost, but in the long term I don't see it being beneficial to GoBus as Bus Eireann could drop them at any time.

    It seems Aircoach are not raising their fares on the Cork route, Bus Eireann I know recently did theirs, but the Aircoach Cork route has not been touched in the recent fare increases.


  • #32
    BenShermin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 701 ✭✭✭BenShermin


    Don't have much time to reply but this is great news to a very regular Dublin to Cork travelller like myself, I can finally get to Cork at short notice if needs be without being charged €77 rtn for the train or having to worry about sitting on a coach for 4hrs 25mins.

    Even though I prefer the comfort of BÉs SP class I'll sarcrafise that for a guaranteed 3hr trip.


  • #33
    Jehuty42
    Closed Accounts Posts: 560 ✭✭✭Jehuty42


    There is no actual confirmation on source on this, is there?


  • #34
    kieran4003
    Closed Accounts Posts: 58 ✭✭kieran4003


    Bk I have good news for you. Irish Rail will soon be abolishing the credit card charge for bookings. They will also be introducing an online system to amend your booking if your plan changes. I agree at the moment a bus ticket is much more flexible. Though you may have moved to the bus by then!

    Well the way BE are meant to be allocating coaches are rather dissapointing. Many are being allocated in an atempt to help 'muscle out competition'. There is actually a very smart way to allocate such coaches. If BE buy coaches and their main use is for cross border use then they can reclaim the VAT, saving themselves and the taxpayer a lot of money. This mainly applies to expressway route 1 (Dublin-Belfast) & route 32 (Dublin-Letterkenny). Route 1 is getting the new coaches however many other routes could of been allocated the new coaches and save money. Though to be fair aswell, The new coaches are needed for Cork - Dublin. A feature I forgot to mention is that there are powerpoints at every seat.

    devnull, The Volvo 9700 does have tiered seating. I dont like it myself. So if you are tall, sit near the front is the best advice :D

    Another clue that Go Bus are launching a Dublin - Cork service is that the buses they have recently bought have generic branding on them, whereas previouly they would of had Galway branding.


  • #35
    DanWall
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 509 ✭✭✭DanWall


    A point missed here. My daughter like a lot of people cannot last long enough on a journey before she wants a pee. The bus cannot provide this, there is no services on the motorway, so the train is the alternative + you can have a snack and a cuppa on the way


  • #36
    devnull
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 11,686 Mod ✭✭✭✭devnull


    BenShermin wrote: »
    Don't have much time to reply but this is great news to a very regular Dublin to Cork travelller like myself, I can finally get to Cork at short notice if needs be without being charged €77 rtn for the train or having to worry about sitting on a coach for 4hrs 25mins.

    I'm curious how busy are the Bus Eireann services between Dublin and Cork during the mid-week and what kind percentage of travelers are going the full way? I've never used them myself for a few years and I still don't understand why other people continue to do so when they are by far the least efficient way to travel between Dublin and Cork unless you know there will be a non stop service.

    Aircoach also operate between Dublin City Centre and Cork City Centre, are 40 minutes quicker than Bus Eireann (3hrs 45 mins), cheaper by a euro for an open return, operate earlier and later services (7am & 7pm), offer an overnight service from Cork (1am) and an 8pm service from Dublin.

    It astonishes me that people are prepared to pay extra for less choice and a longer journey time. I'll never understand this.


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  • #37
    devnull
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 11,686 Mod ✭✭✭✭devnull


    Jehuty42 wrote: »
    There is no actual confirmation on source on this, is there?

    Believe me, they have been awarded a license. I would put my house on it if you asked me to.
    DanWall wrote: »
    A point missed here. My daughter like a lot of people cannot last long enough on a journey before she wants a pee. The bus cannot provide this, there is no services on the motorway, so the train is the alternative + you can have a snack and a cuppa on the way

    BE and Aircoach now stop half way through, but true for young kids this is not ideal and a new service with toilets would very much be able to deal with this issue.
    kieran4003 wrote: »
    Well the way BE are meant to be allocating coaches are rather dissapointing. Many are being allocated in an atempt to help 'muscle out competition'. There is actually a very smart way to allocate such coaches. If BE buy coaches and their main use is for cross border use then they can reclaim the VAT, saving themselves and the taxpayer a lot of money. This mainly applies to expressway route 1 (Dublin-Belfast) & route 32 (Dublin-Letterkenny). Route 1 is getting the new coaches however many other routes could of been allocated the new coaches and save money. Though to be fair aswell, The new coaches are needed for Cork - Dublin. A feature I forgot to mention is that there are powerpoints at every seat.
    Who are these coaches being funded by? I would hope it is not the taxpayer because if it is using taxpayer resources to compete with private companies is something I don't approve on, particularly when money is tight in this country. I have no problem with anyone using their own resources to compete against someone else. I also agree that we need subsidized public transport when this is the only way to provide a fully inclusive service and to stop cheery picking. However such subsidy should be used for providing such service. If Bus Eireann want to rival the privates I have no problem as long as it's with their own money.
    devnull, The Volvo 9700 does have tiered seating. I dont like it myself. So if you are tall, sit near the front is the best advice :D
    Please don't tell me the seats recline in the way I described as well? if so I think I'll give them a miss no matter what.


  • #38
    bk
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 22,985 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    DanWall wrote: »
    A point missed here. My daughter like a lot of people cannot last long enough on a journey before she wants a pee. The bus cannot provide this, there is no services on the motorway, so the train is the alternative + you can have a snack and a cuppa on the way

    GoBus buses have an onboard toilets.

    Also no reason why you can't bring your own snacks and a cuppa with you on the bus, many people already do on the trains, due to Irish Rails prices for the same onboard.

    It is good that BE are introducing new buses, but I don't think they will be competitive with this new service.

    First, BE's new buses won't have onboard toilets, GoBus will (assuming the rumour is true and they use the same buses as their Galway fleet).

    Second unless BE actually introduce a guaranteed direct service, people will more likely go with GoBus, rather then risk not getting a direct bus. And then there is the question if BE would even be licensed to do so.

    I hope BE or Aircoach (or another operator like CityLink) are, as competition would keep the two operators on their toes and competitive. I believe the NTA recommendations for intercity services licensing allow for two different companies, operating hourly services at a 30 minute gap.


  • #39
    devnull
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 11,686 Mod ✭✭✭✭devnull


    bk wrote: »
    Second unless BE actually introduce a guaranteed direct service, people will more likely go with GoBus, rather then risk not getting a direct bus. And then there is the question if BE would even be licensed to do so

    Some people will use Bus Eireann no matter what because it is the national bus company,


  • #40
    dowlingm
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,337 ✭✭✭dowlingm


    I would certainly think twice about using Aircoach or anyone else operating ex Dublin Airport for services south of there unless they had real time info after my last experience a year ago from Westmoreland St.

    By the time a spare coach arrived it was an hour late, but because the driver used had not done the route previously (he had to double back twice) I arrived where I needed to be (Mitchelstown) two hours late. I picked Aircoach ironically because of BE's poor Sunday winter frequency on the Cork-Dublin route which I felt therefore would not arrive in Mitchelstown early enough!

    Definitely a facility for private buses in Dublin with a proper departure board and company reps would be an improvement. The question is where would the best place for such a facility be and how would it be funded?


  • #41
    devnull
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 11,686 Mod ✭✭✭✭devnull


    That would be a one off bad experience and I would not say is indictive of the quality overall. I've used the service about 8-9 times in the last couple of years and haven't seen it happen, I've seen two people turned away at Abbeyleix before though as the 53 seater coach was full once.

    They have added an extra service from Dublin at 8pm, and as they continually stress to customers on literature, on coach and on the website "Don’t forget to book online, up to 5pm the day before you travel, to guarantee your seat on the departure of your choice.". Based on the number of people booking online they are able to get a good idea of demand for the service and if an extra coach is needed and have it ready and waiting.

    Unfortunately in this country very few people seem to bother booking online unlike a lot of countries, but then are the first to moan when they are not able to get a seat on the bus - The advertising of online booking on the Cork route heavily I believe did not start until after your original bad experience, but experiences like yours are probably exactly why they have gone down that route.


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  • #42
    markpb
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,342 ✭✭✭markpb


    devnull wrote: »
    Unfortunately in this country very few people seem to bother booking online unlike a lot of countries

    In my experience, booking online is more awkward than it should be, especially compared to airlines. With Aer Lingus, I can book my ticket, walk into the airport and give them my booking number, passport, or even my name and they figure it out.

    On the other hand, Aircoach and Bus Eireann require you to print out your ticket which is awkward because most people I know don't own a printer at home.

    Aircoach bookings must be made 5pm the day before which has caught me out several times.

    Also, with Aircoach you get a 6% discount but restrict yourself to a specific outbound departure. BE give a 5% discount but restrict the outbound date you can travel on. Irish Rail give you a much heftier discount but you restrict the date and time of both trips. Why would people bother to book online when there's not much advantage for them (with the exception of Irish Rail)? If transit companies want people to book online, there should be a carrot as well as a stick, it's not enough to blithely say we're not like other countries.


  • #43
    highlydebased
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,470 ✭✭✭highlydebased


    I quite like the 9700, Personally it's probably the most comfortable coach I've travelled on in a while.


  • #44
    BazNuge
    Registered Users Posts: 7 ✭BazNuge


    Went for the Aircoach on Friday, they had 2 buses, a direct to Cork and an indirect. Now, direct included 15 stop in Urlingfort, which wasn't awful given I expected some kinda break and I was dying for a coffee then. But still made it 8.30pm when we got there, so 3 1/2 hours run.

    That said, saw an 8 from Dublin arriving into Cork just ahead of us, assume it was the 4.30pm. So direct vs indirected was a difference of an hour.

    If GoBus do start the Cork route, and they can keep it to 3 hours, I'll be a happy camper.


  • #45
    devnull
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 11,686 Mod ✭✭✭✭devnull


    markpb wrote: »
    Aircoach bookings must be made 5pm the day before which has caught me out several times.

    I believe it is so a manifest is printed for the driver so they can see who has booked online and who has not, as with everything in this world some people have decided to print out documents that mimic the official ones, which are not actually legit as there is no system to validate them on the bus by typing in a code etc. Presumably as this would be expensive.
    Also, with Aircoach you get a 6% discount but restrict yourself to a specific outbound departure.

    It's valid on any departure of the day, just simply you cannot guarantee having a seat other than on the coach you boarded and those with a booking on that coach will get priority. However you are still able to use the coach and drivers seem to give priority to people who have a ticket reserved for the same day over those who walk up and buy even if they initially booked on another coach.
    Single Tickets purchased on the coach are only valid on the journey on which they are purchased or, if purchased from our Customer Service Team at Dublin Airport, on the next departures from the Airport.

    Return Tickets purchased on the coach or from our Customer Service Team at Dublin Airport. The outward portion of your ticket is only valid on the journey on which they are purchased or, if purchased from our Customer Service Team at Dublin Airport, on the next departures from the Airport. You can use the return portion of your ticket on any journey, on any date, on your chosen route.

    Single Tickets booked online will be accepted for travel on any departure on your chosen route, on the date specified on your booking. Your seat is only guaranteed on the timed journey (where applicable) specified on your booking.

    Return Tickets booked online. The outward portion of your booking will be accepted for travel on any departure on your chosen route, on the date specified on your booking. Your seat is only guaranteed on the timed journey (where applicable) specified on your booking. On presenting your booking confirmation you will be issued with a Return Ticket. Please keep this Return Ticket safe as you will need it for your return journey. You will be unable to board the coach without the Return Ticket issued on your outward journey. For the return journey your seat is only guaranteed on the date and timed journey (where applicable) specified on your booking. You can, however, use the return portion of your ticket on any journey, on any date, on your chosen route.


  • #46
    devnull
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 11,686 Mod ✭✭✭✭devnull


    BazNuge wrote: »
    Went for the Aircoach on Friday, they had 2 buses, a direct to Cork and an indirect. Now, direct included 15 stop in Urlingfort, which wasn't awful given I expected some kinda break and I was dying for a coffee then. But still made it 8.30pm when we got there, so 3 1/2 hours run.

    That said, saw an 8 from Dublin arriving into Cork just ahead of us, assume it was the 4.30pm. So direct vs indirected was a difference of an hour.

    If GoBus do start the Cork route, and they can keep it to 3 hours, I'll be a happy camper.

    How busy was each bus out of curiosity? I'm just wondering for reasons to how many people are going full distance and who are not. The 8 must have been the 4pm as Bus Eireann operate on even hours from 8pm to 6pm.

    If the direct started at Dublin Airport in the evening, which I assume it did, they'd have had to take a break as 4 hours is the limit pretty much for driving without a full proper break.
    I quite like the 9700, Personally it's probably the most comfortable coach I've travelled on in a while.
    Everything I hear of it reminds me of the NX Levante which isn't a good thing as it's a poor vehicle for tall people.


  • #47
    Kumsheen
    Registered Users Posts: 314 ✭✭Kumsheen


    I think this is great news and it should be very sucessful given the fact that it links the two bigges cities in Ireland.

    Does anybody know if the service will also serve Dublin Airport nonstop? Ever since the ending of domestic flights between Cork and Dublin there has been a need for a direct link to the airport to enable connecting flights. I know there is an non direct service already but this takes too long.


  • #48
    Polar101
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,896 ✭✭✭Polar101


    Well, I personally wouldn't take a bus from Dublin to Cork no matter what the price is - 2 hours is my max on a bus. I find bus travel too uncomfortable so anything longer than that is out. Competition on the route sounds good, though.


  • #49
    devnull
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 11,686 Mod ✭✭✭✭devnull


    Kumsheen wrote: »
    I think this is great news and it should be very sucessful given the fact that it links the two bigges cities in Ireland.

    Does anybody know if the service will also serve Dublin Airport nonstop? Ever since the ending of domestic flights between Cork and Dublin there has been a need for a direct link to the airport to enable connecting flights. I know there is an non direct service already but this takes too long.

    I heard it would be Cork City - Dublin City - Dublin Airport.

    Polar - I would not travel years ago either but the new modern coaches being operated by Citylink, GoBus, JJ Kavanagh, Dublin Coach Aircoach and the new ones that Bus Eireann are introducing are a real far cry from those in the past, leather seating, air conditioning, lots of legroom, plenty of luggage space, Wifi, smoothness rumour is that some of the new vehicles being introduced By BE/GoBus may have plug sockets, tables and toilets.


  • #50
    LXFlyer
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,919 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    Just a few points on this...

    Firstly I think it is obviously good news and I wish Gobus (if they indeed have been awarded a licence) well with this new venture. It is a big risk to take on, given it is unchartered territory, but hopefully they will be successful.

    I do wish to make some observations on a few of the points made above.
    bk wrote: »
    It will pretty much take all the BE and Aircoach passengers going to Dublin. Guaranteed fast direct service (no chancing an extra direct bus with BE) and if they use the same high quality buses with on board toilets and wifi, they will be big advantages.

    Irish Rail will be devastated by this, as a regular Cork-Dublin train user, I know I will never use this service again once GoBus starts.

    Any ordinary person would be delighted to see this service launch, only an Irish Rail (or BE/Aircoach) employee or rail fan could have this opinion, knowing that Rail just can't compete.

    The existing operators all rely on passengers to/from intermediate points along the routes they take to make the operation viable. The fact that Bus Eireann and Aircoach only put on direct Dublin-Cork coaches at peak times at the weekend is testament to this. They certainly do not during the rest of the week, when they most certainly do rely on intermediate traffic to make the service viable. Similarly the trains rely on passengers from intermediate points to get decent load factors.

    To simply suggest this will devastate the Irish Rail and the other operators is I think being a bit unnecessarily triumphalist, and frankly we will have to wait and see. As I've said the train carries strong numbers from other points that do not have direct coach services, so I don't think it will necessarily devastate them. Coupled with this, there are a significant number of people for whom 3.25 hours (which is what I would reckon this service will realistically take) on a coach without a break may not be something that will appeal to (onboard toilet or not), and I'm sure Irish Rail and the other operators will have strategies to compete with the service.

    Dublin/Galway is not the same as Dublin/Cork. For one, the coaches are (with a couple of exceptions) faster on the Galway route than the train, which does have an impact, and secondly the journey time is only 2.5 hours. Journey time will remain an issue that will not appeal to everyone.

    It is going to be very interesting to see how the market develops, but I certainly don't think it will be anywhere near as black and white as you suggest.
    markpb wrote: »
    If only the NTA would/could pilfer state assets back from CIE and turn Bus Aras into a public bus depot for all operators. I'm no fan of the building but it's in a good location and it makes more sense to use it as much as logistically possible instead of having more intercity buses sitting on the kerbside.

    Bus Aras does not have the capacity for all of the Bus Eireann services as it is! Look at the number of Bus Eireann services that have to operate from Connolly and Beresford Place. There is no room for even more coaches. What is needed is, at the very least, a new bus station for all of the private operators, as a matter of some urgency, similar to that in Galway.
    dowlingm wrote: »
    I seem to have missed the development of the Coach Station in Galway. Does BE stop there too? It's not like they have any interest in integrating with IE given their tie-up with Gobus.

    There are two bus stations in Galway - the new one for the private operators and the existing bus station at Ceannt Station for Bus Eireann. There were plans to develop a modern facility on the site of the old bus garage on the far side of Ceannt station but these are on hold.


  • #51
    Kumsheen
    Registered Users Posts: 314 ✭✭Kumsheen


    Polar101 wrote: »
    Well, I personally wouldn't take a bus from Dublin to Cork no matter what the price is - 2 hours is my max on a bus. I find bus travel too uncomfortable so anything longer than that is out. Competition on the route sounds good, though.

    I would agree with you on the old routes via N roads and via multiple towns, but a direct motorway smooth ride at a constant speed is totally different.
    You wouldn't get me on one of those old routes with constant repetitive brake,accelerator,roundabout,traffic light,town....


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