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Referendum
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Keepan Eye wrote: »Thanks Aard. Hard to find any FF voter these days. FG always had a split vote. Trendy side such as Garrett Fitzgerald V the Conservative side Liam Cosgrave days. Labour which was taken over by Sinn Féin Workers Party/Official IRA political wing [ EAMON GILMORE ex member of Sinn Féin Workers Party and Minister Kathleen Lynch ex Official Sinn Féin member ].Labour will lose to the New FaceBook Fluffy Generation of Provisional Sinn Féin.[ Bitter enemies of the Stickies a.k.a Workers Party Labour. ]The disparate but well financed Communist Groups; AAA, water Charges groups etc. So If you take the fact that these various tribes have to split 1.2Million votes but the Conservative 3/4 Million are a BLOCK conservative group I still think on the basis that All Political Parties deserted the conservative 40% NO Vote it will be FUN, particularly if the Media row in to point this out in order to fill the space left vacant by their Pro Yes Vote coverage. Ohh the FUN.........
You know why noone/very few of our elected representatives came out as a no? Its not like the polls didn't indicate a sizable no minority especially in more rural areas. So why do you think no party wanted to be associated with it?
Because it is poison and very few want to be associated with the losing side. And the no vote are not only the losing side with regard to the results of this referendum they are the losing vote in regards to everything. Ye had decades in charge of our country and the greatest thing you social conservatives ever produced was a culture that tortured single mothers and raped children. Your political death will be slow and strained but it is inevitable and that is why politicians with hope for a fulsome future avoided ye like the plague and why since the results only the fool hardy or truly desperate have clung to ye. Even the Church itself strains under the weight of having to put up with ye.0 -
Thanks Joey. In relation to the Divorce ref there were varying views from the Political Parties. Some for , some against. [ Though the Communist parties tended to have most if not all in favour of the introduction of Divorce]. I suppose what I am clarifying for you is that YES and NO in the Divorce Ref. had persons in Dáil Eireann they could identify with. They felt represented in the Irish Parliament whether their side won or not. In the Current situation where All Politicians and All Political Parties Voted YES, the 40% NO voters now have Nil representation in the Dáil. If a person is a YES supporter that may make them Happy, but the Knock on affect is you now have a large 40% NO vote who are unrepresented in what they Obviously felt strongly about. That's not far off Half the Voters.
What has History taught us about this. Hardly revolution, NO Voters are supposed to be conservative. But every Action has an opposite etc etc etc.....SO How will Politicians who don't represent the 40% NO Voters get support from this 750,000 Block NO vote.0 -
I don't think it is a block vote that would vote homogenously. Also if you really analyse this campaign it was not mainly lead by politicians. The Yes Equality group won this campaign and a massive number of politicians didnt get involved at all and stayed silent enough. In fact my guess is the vast majority of politicians did no campaignimg on this issue.
It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.
Terry Pratchet
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Hi Joey-- Indeed Politicians were thin on the ground. They all welcomed the 60% YES and ignored the 40% NO..But their POSTERS and spokesmen were everywhere and as I understand it Politicians were told to support the Party Line on pain of expulsion. So whilst their faces weren't there,their Money was. I saw Richard Bruton out on the canvass in Northside Dublin. FF Avril [forget her second name] was knocking on doors and of course AAA and some Communist side people came and a lot of Labour Party. I assume the TÁ badges were Provisional Sinn Féin
How was the YES side so well funded?. Most positive coverage was for a YES vote --Indo, IT and Radio/TV. That kind of Campaign Costs a fortune. I'd like to know how I could raise enough to pay off me debts after the Politicians wrecked the country.
Anyhow not to deviate the Fact is that the 750,000 First Preference Votes have no home unless a New conservative Party emerges. ...Unlikely...........So it will still be Fun to watch the scramble for these Votes. I would sense most of these are not Nazi party types voting No [ although that's how media and YES side portrayed it ]; but thinking people who just didn't Agree to putting a Traditional Union of Man and Woman into a lower status or same category as other types of Marriages. So the problem remains; How do the Politicians propose to Include this 40% who were excluded in what really should have been all about Social Inclusion of everyone. The result is now a mess with tensions worse than 1983 et seq. The Media are peddling that it was the YOUNG who swung the Vote...............so the otherside of that coin is the Older people are excluded or tolerate them but exclude them. Naturally we ALL grow old very very quickly so 'Persons may live to regret'. that comment. Maybe someone will write to the papers pointing out the impact of their thought process. Anyhow lets see how it works out and indeed What do the 1.3 Million Irish who didn't vote THINK. Esentially to be sure we only got a 37% Yes.; 23% NO and 40% ???--how do they feel. Hope it doesn't end like USA where 1st Jan 1863 Black people got their freedom......................last time I watched the news they still were WAITING.
Role on the Elections and the Scrambling Politicians.0 -
Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 67,667 Mod ✭✭✭✭
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If anyone other than you and a few Iona heads even mentions this at the GE I'd be astounded.
The vast, vast majority of people do not associate referendum results with general elections. Your one-man-mission won't change that.0 -
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keepan eye I still don't actually think that people who voted no are a homogenous block who would all vote en masse the same way in a general election.
I really cant see tensions being worse than 1983 either. Can you explain more on this?It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.
Terry Pratchet
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So your point is that it should be fun to see politicians wriggling - that's fair enough if thats what a general election means to you, but I'd hazard a wild guess that most voters are usually more concerned about party policy on taxation, job creation, public services (health, education, care for the elderly & disabled) than they are about basic civil/human rights issues such as SSM, or about any fetish/fantasy they might have at the thoughts of a politician wriggling.Keepan Eye wrote: »The difference between this Referendum and all previous is that ALL politicians, voted YES. Previously different Politicians were split. This time it was a Blanket YES by All political parties and Politicians, so you see That is a Massive new factor in the equation. Wouldn't you agree? So my original point still needs consideration. Should be FUN to see the wriggling.
In any political party 'towing the party line' is nothing new either. This is the whole ethos of the political party system. Compromisation is part & parcel of any political party just like in other areas of life (business, marriage, sport or in any area where more than one person is involved). In the case of the recent referendum as I see it all parties were on the same page as regards equal rights for same sex couples, so I suppose you'll just have to vote for independents in the future. That's your choice & the beauty of our political voting system.
No-one forced anyone to vote yes or no & even if a voter was physically held captive & forced to vote by gunpoint the secret ballot system ensured that they could vote either yes or no - they could also have spoilt their vote. In fact no-one knows how any individual politician voted either. The referendum is over now & we're all aware of the result. The nation has spoken. It's time to move on now.
Furthermore, politicians 'wriggling' is not a new phenomenon during the run up to a general election. Perhaps you will get more mileage out of your brief encounters with them when they canvass at your doorstep, but I feel that you'd be muddying the waters on the major issues just as was the case in the entire NO campaign which is why the NO campaigners arguments in the run up to the recent referendum did more for the opposing side's cause than it did for their own imo.
But fear not, clouding the election issues with red herrings by dwelling or concentrating on the referendum result will probably be a welcome break for door to door canvassers & will be like water off a ducks back as per usual, so don't get over excited at the prospect because if you do you'll be sorely disappointed (again).0 -
Must be the Irish in Liberal Labour UK who are now in the Spot Light for abuse....Also check out the Rotherham Scandal..........UK --Liberals.....LIBERAL CHINA selling human Organs--- -- EU Russia China -IMPERIALISTS robbing Africa by proxy.....jobbridge4life wrote: »You know why noone/very few of our elected representatives came out as a no? Its not like the polls didn't indicate a sizable no minority especially in more rural areas. So why do you think no party wanted to be associated with it?
Because it is poison and very few want to be associated with the losing side. And the no vote are not only the losing side with regard to the results of this referendum they are the losing vote in regards to everything. Ye had decades in charge of our country and the greatest thing you social conservatives ever produced was a culture that tortured single mothers and raped children. Your political death will be slow and strained but it is inevitable and that is why politicians with hope for a fulsome future avoided ye like the plague and why since the results only the fool hardy or truly desperate have clung to ye. Even the Church itself strains under the weight of having to put up with ye.
37% YES--23% --NO--- 40% Qui Sait0 -
If anyone other than you and a few Iona heads even mentions this at the GE I'd be astounded.
The vast, vast majority of people do not associate referendum results with general elections. Your one-man-mission won't change that.
Howdy -- Yeah you could be right......suppose time will tell---but you got to admit 750,000 First preference votes from people who Always Vote is pretty tempting to Conservative and Communists alike --not to mention Liberals.0 -
Joeytheparrot wrote: »keepan eye I still don't actually think that people who voted no are a homogenous block who would all vote en masse the same way in a general election.
I really cant see tensions being worse than 1983 either. Can you explain more on this?
High Joey....previously there was Media and Political balance of representation.This time there was not; I dont think you could deny that.0 -
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Keepan Eye wrote: »Must be the Irish in Liberal Labour UK who are now in the Spot Light for abuse....Also check out the Rotherham Scandal..........UK --Liberals.....LIBERAL CHINA selling human Organs--- -- EU Russia China -IMPERIALISTS robbing Africa by proxy.....
37% YES--23% --NO--- 40% Qui Sait
This is nonsense, uninformed factually incorrect nonsense of the most specious nature.
Its beneath my full engagement.0 -
Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 67,667 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Join Date:Posts: 64648
Keepan Eye wrote: »Howdy -- Yeah you could be right......suppose time will tell---but you got to admit 750,000 First preference votes from people who Always Vote is pretty tempting to Conservative and Communists alike --not to mention Liberals.
IF those votes were there to be won on one issue, perhaps. But they aren't.0 -
Cushie Butterfield wrote: »So your point is that it should be fun to see politicians wriggling - that's fair enough if thats what a general election means to you, but I'd hazard a wild guess that most voters are usually more concerned about party policy on taxation, job creation, public services (health, education, care for the elderly & disabled) than they are about basic civil/human rights issues such as SSM, or about any fetish/fantasy they might have at the thoughts of a politician wriggling.
In any political party 'towing the party line' is nothing new either. This is the whole ethos of the political party system. Compromisation is part & parcel of any political party just like in other areas of life (business, marriage, sport or in any area where more than one person is involved). In the case of the recent referendum as I see it all parties were on the same page as regards equal rights for same sex couples, so I suppose you'll just have to vote for independents in the future. That's your choice & the beauty of our political voting system.
No-one forced anyone to vote yes or no & even if a voter was physically held captive & forced to vote by gunpoint the secret ballot system ensured that they could vote either yes or no - they could also have spoilt their vote. In fact no-one knows how any individual politician voted either. The referendum is over now & we're all aware of the result. The nation has spoken. It's time to move on now.
Furthermore, politicians 'wriggling' is not a new phenomenon during the run up to a general election. Perhaps you will get more mileage out of your brief encounters with them when they canvass at your doorstep, but I feel that you'd be muddying the waters on the major issues just as was the case in the entire NO campaign which is why the NO campaigners arguments in the run up to the recent referendum did more for the opposing side's cause than it did for their own imo.
But fear not, clouding the election issues with red herrings by dwelling or concentrating on the referendum result will probably be a welcome break for door to door canvassers & will be like water off a ducks back as per usual, so don't get over excited at the prospect because if you do you'll be sorely disappointed (again).
But would you not agree that Politicians will have concerns as to how they need to Placate the 750,000 NO First Pref Votes. It was the general consensus of the NO side that they are now deserted. Ignored and dehumanised by a YES side[ sorry a large bunch of Yes side] which branded them Untermensch - From my viewpoint I agree Homosexual people should have the right to Marry. [ sorry; do have the right to Marry] but in the last analysis Hetrosexual unions are the basic building blocks of the world and have a Special place in the world.Change as many Laws or rules as you like but most people, Including YES voters, believe the same - Its just how life began0 -
Thanks to Boards.ie Maybe the last Bastion of Democracy.
Thank you for hosting this debate and a Big Thank you to all who contributed -- I know we get' het up ' and on reflection most of us approach these discussions in a sober way eventually. I did tease, rise people and went a tad overboard -apologies and have a good nights sleep.
At the end of the day a Good Marriage is built on compromise and we will have to do that if we are all to get along.
Thanks again and again ; Boards; Rock On.
Keepan Eye0 -
Dreamland. "It's the losing side who must be accommodated". Laughable deluded garbage. All this represents is the determination of bigotry to remain in place. Tea party anyone?0
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In fact I think the opposite is the case. I think no voters could be quite conservative and not really change their traditional voting patterns or preferences. But yes voters could be much more open to radical change.
It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.
Terry Pratchet
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