Why are groups particularly for minorities considered OK?

LFC CONNAUGHTON · 13-02-2015 6:23pm #1

To start off, I would just like to say that in no way am I a racist or a homophobic person or anything like that but I am simply asking this question out of curiosity. For example, say an LGBT club that called itself that is fine, but a club that advertises itself as a straight club would be considered non okay?

floggg · 13-02-2015 6:31pm

LFC CONNAUGHTON wrote: »

To start off, I would just like to say that in no way am I a racist or a homophobic person or anything like that

LFC CONNAUGHTON wrote: »

For example, say an LGBT club that called itself that is fine, but a club that advertises itself as a straight club would be considered non okay?

Not saying you are homophobic, but thought you should know that they are two of the most frequent lines used by homophobes visting this forum. More than happy to give you the benefit of the doubt though.

Maybe you might give us your thoughts on why a minority community might need a club in order to get together with people with shared experiences, backgrounds and interests and why a majority group wouldn't.

LFC CONNAUGHTON · 13-02-2015 6:36pm

Sorry I realise that it might sound like denial but it's not. I think that in society today minority groups to discuss their issues is a great idea and personally I approve of groups for minorities it's just that I wonder why the arsenal supporters group gay gooners is OK, while, say a group for straight "gooners" isn't?

Maximus Alexander · 13-02-2015 6:39pm

LFC CONNAUGHTON wrote: »

Sorry I realise that it might sound like denial but it's not. I think that in society today minority groups to discuss their issues is a great idea and personally I approve of groups for minorities it's just that I wonder why the arsenal supporters group gay gooners is OK, while, say a group for straight "gooners" isn't?

What extra thing would a group for straight gooners offer you that a group for all gooners wouldn't?

13-02-2015 7:22pm

Groups generally get together because they have a common interest to share. Just look at the thousands of groups on meetup.com
It really is that simple.

LFC CONNAUGHTON · 13-02-2015 9:23pm

Maximus Alexander wrote:

What extra thing would a group for straight gooners offer you that a group for all gooners wouldn't?

What does a group for LGBT gooners offer that a group for all doesn't?

LFC CONNAUGHTON · 13-02-2015 9:24pm

Deleted User wrote:

Groups generally get together because they have a common interest to share. Just look at the thousands of groups on meetup.com It really is that simple.

But don't these groups have nothing to do with sexuality? Gay and straight people can both like and enjoy football so why is a group for a specific sexuality needed?

J_E · 13-02-2015 9:45pm

LFC CONNAUGHTON wrote: »

What does a group for LGBT gooners offer that a group for all doesn't?

A safe place where you can be just yourself without fear of judgement, no needing to tread around certain phrases, talking about your 'partner' in the generic sense, etc. It is more valuable than you'd think, particularly for those only coming to terms with who they are. I like to celebrate my diversity rather than homogenise it and compromise if I can.

LFC CONNAUGHTON wrote: »

But don't these groups have nothing to do with sexuality? Gay and straight people can both like and enjoy football so why is a group for a specific sexuality needed?

Changing room as an 'other' in a room full of straight folk can range from awkward to scary if they think you're automatically going to pounce on them 'Don't drop the soap' sort of jokes. Even worse, imagine if you are trans and you have to face possibly exposing yourself to others who are likely to deem you a freak, 'sick', etc? In some groups, the activity is merely a medium for the conversations. Straight folk don't have to think or deal with certain issues we do, simple as. It doesn't mean they don't have shared problems and interests, it's just that ours are often misunderstood.

Maximus Alexander · 13-02-2015 9:58pm

LFC CONNAUGHTON wrote: »

What does a group for LGBT gooners offer that a group for all doesn't?

You first.

Tonyandthewhale · 13-02-2015 10:03pm

Most LGBT groups aren't exclusively LGBT, merely LGBT friendly. I'm straight but I've never been refused entry to a gay bar for instance or asked to pass any kind of gay test. The only expectation is that once you're inside you're going to accept what goes on in there as normal.
When you're gay (or a member of pretty much any other minority group really) certain people out there will always see you as something other than normal and it's nice to be able to go somewhere and be with people where you don't have to worry about that. Where you can just be yourself. 99% anyone is welcome so long as they abide by the general ethos. To be comparable a 'straight only' club would have to still accept members who aren't straight so long as those members didn't disapprove of heterosexuality or make the heterosexuals feel uncomfortable or judged. Since this is already the default position it's kind of silly. It'd be like a Chelsea supporters club which limited it's members to people who breathe oxygen.

LFC CONNAUGHTON · 14-02-2015 12:30am

J_E wrote:

Changing room as an 'other' in a room full of straight folk can range from awkward to scary if they think you're automatically going to pounce on them 'Don't drop the soap' sort of jokes. Even worse, imagine if you are trans and you have to face possibly exposing yourself to others who are likely to deem you a freak, 'sick', etc? In some groups, the activity is merely a medium for the conversations. Straight folk don't have to think or deal with certain issues we do, simple as. It doesn't mean they don't have shared problems and interests, it's just that ours are often misunderstood.

I believe that a better idea would be to have clubs that openly accept gay people, but encourage as much straight people as possible also to interact. It would be much better for the future treatment of homosexuality and help closed minded people to come to terms with how homosexuality doesn't change people. Perhaps the biggest problem is the actual name of such clubs. I as a straight man would personally feel unwelcome in a group specifically called Gay gooners, and not because I'm a Liverpool fan. XD

baby and crumble · 14-02-2015 12:40am

Because in general, all clubs that DON'T advertise or specifically say they are LGBTQ are straight, or at least assumed that way.

Yes, there is nothing differentiating a gay liverpool fan with a straight one other than their sexuality, but sometimes that's a big deal for people.

If you're not actually part of a minority, there's no real way to understand why these types of groups are important. Because if you're a straight white male, in general Irish society is designed and made for you. Slightly less so if you're a straight white female. You enjoy being able to go to a club and be who you are without worrying what people think of you, if you might lose your job if you say the wrong thing or hit on the wrong person. So safe spaces where minorities can come together with another interest other than just their sexuality is a godsend to a lot of people.

LFC CONNAUGHTON · 14-02-2015 12:59am

baby and crumble wrote:

If you're not actually part of a minority, there's no real way to understand why these types of groups are important. Because if you're a straight white male, in general Irish society is designed and made for you. Slightly less so if you're a straight white female. You enjoy being able to go to a club and be who you are without worrying what people think of you, if you might lose your job if you say the wrong thing or hit on the wrong person. So safe spaces where minorities can come together with another interest other than just their sexuality is a godsend to a lot of people.

Well said, but I personally think society is developed enough to have groups that are used more to integrate LGBT and straight people with similar interests rather than have them segregated into "normal" straight groups and specifically gay groups that only serves to create more differences than similarities between the two groups.

baby and crumble · 14-02-2015 1:13am

LFC CONNAUGHTON wrote: »

Well said, but I personally think society is developed enough to have groups that are used more to integrate LGBT and straight people with similar interests rather than have them segregated into "normal" straight groups and specifically gay groups that only serves to create more differences than similarities between the two groups.

Then to be honest, you don't live in the real world. I know that sounds harsh, but there are thousands of gay people in Ireland who have been run out chruch groups, local sports clubs, and other groups simply because of their sexuality or gender presentation. Oh, not told that to their face, but it's implicit. You're seeing it at the moment with the arguments around marriage equality. Apparently I have no family values, for example, because my partner is female. Society has evolved enough not to talk about it explicitly, but it's there as an undercurrent.

And also, you have to remember that there are some members of the LGBTQ community who don't feel it's their job to "integrate" into the straight world- because that's usually what happens. I rarely see straight people integrating into gay groups, do you? \the onus is usually on gay folks going to the generic groups which are based on assumed heterosexuality. And it can be exhausting to have to be the educators all the time.

It's also a case of members outside of a specific group cannot understand the experiences of that group- and it's really really hard work sometimes to bridge those gaps. Everyone is "at fault" in that, but sometimes you do just want to go somewhere and know that the others in the room "get it"- whether that "it" is growing up as a gay person in Ireland, or as someone who enjoys LARPing, or a particular sport, or whatever. Human nature is tribal, and it's natural. It's just when one tribe" think they're better or more normal that the others that you run into problems.

floggg · 14-02-2015 1:15am

LFC CONNAUGHTON wrote: »

What does a group for LGBT gooners offer that a group for all doesn't?

Well, how much would the straight arsenal fan group relate to:

being excluded from, or feeling unable to participate openly in, soccer or other sports;
receiving harassment or abuse for holding hands with your partner on the way to a match;
wanting to go on the pull in a gay bar after a game;
an appreciation of Freddie Ljunberg's modelling career;

Sometimes it also just nice to be able to meet up with other gay people with shared interests. Since we are a small minority, its not always that easy to just meet other gay people organically.

It can be good to have other gay friends though - if even just to have somebody to go on the pull wiith.

Gay clubs or groups are a good way of doing just that.

floggg · 14-02-2015 1:25am

LFC CONNAUGHTON wrote: »

Well said, but I personally think society is developed enough to have groups that are used more to integrate LGBT and straight people with similar interests rather than have them segregated into "normal" straight groups and specifically gay groups that only serves to create more differences than similarities between the two groups.

You make it sound like LGBT people were the ones that decided to segregate themselves. Believe it or not, if we had any say in the matter we would probably opt to be included equally, and to be accepted without anybody batting an eye lid.

Also, there is nothing wrong with celebrating diversity.

Most of my friends, family and acquaintances are straight, and I spend more time in "straight" or "normal" settings than any gay settings. But what's wrong with me embracing the gay scene every now and then.

We don't exclude anybody from it, and all are welcome to join. But sometimes we might just like to be in a room of like minded people.

It's really no different from a (non-gay) Arsenal supporters club - a group of people with something in common (sexuality or support of a team which perennially flatters to deceive as applicable) who get together as a group to socialise and bond with like minded individuals.

Could be worse though - we could be delusion fools who think every year is our year, and idolise bitey racists.

It is no different from Irish people living abroad joining a local GAA club. it doesn't mean they aren't integrated into their host society, it just means they like to spend time with people of a similar background.

The idea that we must all conform in order to be equal is a contradiction in terms - Equal is only really equal if we are free to be different from each other and still be treated the same. If we have to modify our behaviour, or to mask the things which make us different (be it sexual orientation, gender, ethnicity, religion, nationality, preferred sports team etc), then we aren't really equal as individuals at all.

floggg · 14-02-2015 1:38am

LFC CONNAUGHTON wrote: »

I believe that a better idea would be to have clubs that openly accept gay people, but encourage as much straight people as possible also to interact. It would be much better for the future treatment of homosexuality and help closed minded people to come to terms with how homosexuality doesn't change people. Perhaps the biggest problem is the actual name of such clubs. I as a straight man would personally feel unwelcome in a group specifically called Gay gooners, and not because I'm a Liverpool fan. XD

Also, what I always think is so funny about the argument that gay identified groups are divisive is that it was only when LGBT people began to openly identify as gay, and to create and organise LGBT themed events and groups, that they began to be accepted.

If openly identifying as gay, and organising a gay community, is divisive, why has it been so successful at achieving the integration of gay people into society?

The answer is that integration only came about because of visibility - and we cannot be visible unless we are willing to identify, and be identified as LGBT.

J_E · 14-02-2015 2:05am

LFC CONNAUGHTON wrote: »

I believe that a better idea would be to have clubs that openly accept gay people, but encourage as much straight people as possible also to interact.

That's nice - but it's idealistic, and there's little deep thought put into the reasoning behind that idea. Why is it so bad for a minority group to have something to themselves like any other exclusive club when straight folk have access to everything else?

LFC CONNAUGHTON wrote: »

Well said, but I personally think society is developed enough to have groups that are used more to integrate LGBT and straight people with similar interests rather than have them segregated into "normal" straight groups and specifically gay groups that only serves to create more differences than similarities between the two groups.

Ah man, please don't. No, society still has a ways to go. Name me one instance straight people are discriminated by their sexuality in every day life, even when said events have nothing to do with your sexuality, as you mentioned earlier.

Why are you so hung up about this? Were you denied entry into a group?

Annasopra · 14-02-2015 11:06am

LFC CONNAUGHTON wrote: »

Well said, but I personally think society is developed enough to have groups that are used more to integrate LGBT and straight people with similar interests rather than have them segregated into "normal" straight groups and specifically gay groups that only serves to create more differences than similarities between the two groups.

Some lgbt people want to access groups that are aimed at everyone and some lgbt people want to access groups that are aimed at lgbt people. I dont see any issue.

For LGBT people an lgbt space gives them many things
Socialising opportunities
Friendship opportunities
Networking opportunities
Organisational and Political opportunities
Relationship opportunities

Take this forum as an example
It gives lgbt people opportunities to speak to each other and share experiences and information in a safe and comfortable space. This forum has assisted many people to find information, friendship and love. We don't segregate and say - no straight or cisgender posters allowed. We dont tolerate homophobia or biphobia or transphobia.

To me if that supportive environment of this forum wasnt available when I signed up I probably wouldnt have stuck around boards.ie

FairytaleGirl · 14-02-2015 11:17am

'Well said, but I personally think society is developed enough to have groups that are used more to integrate LGBT and straight people with similar interests rather than have them segregated into "normal" straight groups and specifically gay groups that only serves to create more differences than similarities between the two groups.'

You have no idea what it's like. I can't go to a straight bar with my girlfriend and act like all the other couples in there. Because any one of a number of things happen;
People stare
Were asked to leave
People show 'disgust'
Men think it's purely put on for their entertainment
As the night wears on we would have to put up with propositions from guys which start off harmless and turn into abusive 'f*cking sick lesbians all you need is a good rape' (one of the most hateful)

So yeah. LGBT people need their own spaces sometime purely for our own safety/right to live without being made to feel awkward or uncomfortable.

LegacyUser · 14-02-2015 11:53am

Put it this way if you're in a club or pub with your significant other whether it be holding hands or having a quick peck, do you have a constant barrage of men asking can they join in? Because it isn't funny for the couple involved and the more it goes on the more annoying the night gets. Depending on the customers it can range from simply disrespectful to making you feel very uncomfortable to making you feel very unsafe.

As for clubs etc I play enough sports with straight clubs and if single highly unlikely to meet someone through those. Gay pubs and clubs prob aren't the best place to meet your life partner. And if you're not into online dating it's an option. Plus it's friends that get you, get what it's like to be gay, get any difficulties etc

LFC CONNAUGHTON · 14-02-2015 9:10pm

J_E wrote:

Why are you so hung up about this? Were you denied entry into a group?

I'm not, I honestly was just wondering how people felt about this. And from some of the other responses I didn't realise that there was still so much segregation in normal establishments. I honestly had thought that the people who would stand against the exclusion of the LGBT community would outweigh the people who stand for it. Seems I was quite wrong. Thanks for all the responses.

Lyaiera · 14-02-2015 9:29pm

LFC CONNAUGHTON wrote: »

I'm not, I honestly was just wondering how people felt about this. And from some of the other responses I didn't realise that there was still so much segregation in normal establishments. I honestly had thought that the people who would stand against the exclusion of the LGBT community would outweigh the people who stand for it. Seems I was quite wrong. Thanks for all the responses.

Even if they do outweigh the negative people, those negative people can make you feel very threatened and vulnerable. Sometimes you want a place where your sexuality or gender is of no issue.

Annasopra · 14-02-2015 11:03pm

I went to a lunch today

It was a fundraiser for marriage equality - There was about 50 people there and probably 40 LGBT

The thing is - I never ever saw this as segregation. I think its silly to suggest it was. For me this lunch gave me the following opportunities

1 A chance to meet like minded people in a comfortable environment to discuss our common shared experiences
2 A chance to socialise and meet possible new friends
3 A chance to do some networking and lobbying

I really fail to see how anyone could have a problem with LGBT spaces.

Again - its the same with this forum

It gives me and I think others
1 A chance to discuss common shared experiences with like minded people in a comfortable and safe environment
2 A chance to socialise and meet possible new friends
3 An opportunity to assist and advise other people as well as providing information
4 A place to come to get advice and information and assistance.

LFC CONNAUGHTON · 15-02-2015 12:41am

Joeytheparrot wrote:

It was a fundraiser for marriage equality - There was about 50 people there and probably 40 LGBT

I haven't really explained properly what I meant with this thread, but this gives me the chance to. What I was thinking was that situations such as this shouldn't happen. There should be much more straight people willing to converse and gather with LGBT people without any issue.

Annasopra · 15-02-2015 12:52am

LFC CONNAUGHTON wrote: »

I haven't really explained properly what I meant with this thread, but this gives me the chance to. What I was thinking was that situations such as this shouldn't happen. There should be much more straight people willing to converse and gather with LGBT people without any issue.

Why shouldnt such situations happen?

LFC CONNAUGHTON · 15-02-2015 9:41am

Joeytheparrot wrote:

Why shouldnt such situations happen?

I'm trying to say that since there are more straight people in the world, there should be much more than 10 out of 50 willing to interact with an.LGBT group

Annasopra · 15-02-2015 12:04pm

LFC CONNAUGHTON wrote: »

I'm trying to say that since there are more straight people in the world, there should be much more than 10 out of 50 willing to interact with an.LGBT group

There is. Of course there is!

I still dont quite see the issue really.

jobbridge4life · 16-02-2015 1:58pm

LFC CONNAUGHTON what you may not realise or experience it, this is a straight world. That may seem like a redundant statement; but it isn’t. For straight people it is hard to notice in a proper sense that the whole world literally revolves around them and their life expectations. What you assume to be normal or value free can often be heteronormative and laden with messages and unspoken rules.
Take for example an oft repeated complaint from certain segments of the straight community, ‘what do ye need pride for? You don’t see straight people parading around making a show of their sexuality’. This has to be one of the most laughable statements ever uttered for the simple fact that every day is straight pride parade. From engagements, to weddings, to wedding fairs, to television shows about bridezillas, and finding the dress etc etc. Gay people are a minority in a straight world. If you are straight that’s it, but just being gay is still too often seen as almost being a statement in and of itself.

OldNotWIse · 16-02-2015 2:04pm

LFC CONNAUGHTON wrote: »

To start off, I would just like to say that in no way am I a racist or a homophobic person or anything like that but I am simply asking this question out of curiosity. For example, say an LGBT club that called itself that is fine, but a club that advertises itself as a straight club would be considered non okay?

It's been my experience that most racist and homophobic comments start out that way but I'll take you at your word. Have you considered why there are no stright clubs? It's because there is no need for them.

OldNotWIse · 16-02-2015 2:11pm

When I was in college I identified as homosexual/bisexual. I was young (19) and insecure. I still remember with fondness the time I spent and the friends I made in both gay and non-gay societies. We had a soc room and it was, like other posters have pointed out, a safe space. You might just go to have a cuppa and organise an event - but it was nice to feel like you could be yourself and not have to screen your words. Now, I am 31 and don't tend to give a shít what people think anyway so there is no need for me to involve myself with "gay friendly" groups but I can still see their merit.

Re gay pubs, I'd like to supoprt what other posters have said. There are no "straight pubs" because there is no need for them. Gay pubs are places where gay people can socialise and be themselves without fear of prejudice (and as someone who once identified as a lesbian woman, two women can socialise as partners without being bothered by heterosexual apes asking them for a threesome). They are not "non straight" because they are gay. I've never seen anyone refused entry because they are straight. All I've seen is bouncers asking people if they know what kind of pub it is, before they go in, lest they wander in thinking it is straight.

OldNotWIse · 16-02-2015 2:15pm

LFC CONNAUGHTON wrote: »

I believe that a better idea would be to have clubs that openly accept gay people, but encourage as much straight people as possible also to interact. It would be much better for the future treatment of homosexuality and help closed minded people to come to terms with how homosexuality doesn't change people. Perhaps the biggest problem is the actual name of such clubs. I as a straight man would personally feel unwelcome in a group specifically called Gay gooners, and not because I'm a Liverpool fan. XD

I would hope, in 2015 that we don't have to resort to pubs having to specifically point out that they "openly accept gay people". Although I agree with your point that specific gay establishements serve to sort of "self-segregate" gays, I think there is still a need for them.

LFC CONNAUGHTON · 16-02-2015 5:51pm

OldNotWIse wrote:

When I was in college I identified as homosexual/bisexual. I was young (19) and insecure. I still remember with fondness the time I spent and the friends I made in both gay and non-gay societies. We had a soc room and it was, like other posters have pointed out, a safe space. You might just go to have a cuppa and organise an event - but it was nice to feel like you could be yourself and not have to screen your words. Now, I am 31 and don't tend to give a shÃt what people think anyway so there is no need for me to involve myself with "gay friendly" groups but I can still see their merit.

This really helped me to understand what I was asking. Thank you. I now know that these groups are helpful for those to go to and feel completely safe, until they are able to be just like you, and not care what others think.

LFC CONNAUGHTON · 16-02-2015 5:52pm

OldNotWIse wrote:

I would hope, in 2015 that we don't have to resort to pubs having to specifically point out that they "openly accept gay people". Although I agree with your point that specific gay establishements serve to sort of "self-segregate" gays, I think there is still a need for them.

Hopefully the time will come soon where there is no need for these clubs, but clearly according to some things I've heard that time isn't now.

Annasopra · 16-02-2015 6:53pm

LFC CONNAUGHTON wrote: »

This really helped me to understand what I was asking. Thank you. I now know that these groups are helpful for those to go to and feel completely safe, until they are able to be just like you, and not care what others think.

Yes but also some people choose to stay in that circle. I dont see that as a big problem either.

jobbridge4life · 16-02-2015 7:04pm

LFC CONNAUGHTON wrote: »

Hopefully the time will come soon where there is no need for these clubs, but clearly according to some things I've heard that time isn't now.

There is a much more interesting question provoked by the above and it is to inquire as to why it is hopeful?

Annasopra · 16-02-2015 8:35pm

jobbridge4life wrote: »

There is a much more interesting question provoked by the above and it is to inquire as to why it is hopeful?

I agree. I wouldnt be hopeful of that at all and would be the complete opposite - hopeful that lgbt spaces would continue to exist.

I dont believe that lgbt are segregationist or a bad thing. I really find the idea that people want them eradicated offensive. I understand not all lgbt people want them or need them or use them but at the same time lots of people do.

This seems to come from an ideology or idea that equality equals sameness. To me it is not at all. Equality is about diversity. Equality in my view is about recognising and celebrating differences while treating people on an equal footing.

If LFC C means he is hopeful that mainstream places would be less violent and more toletant and welcoming of diversity I would agree with that.

BetterThanThou · 16-02-2015 10:28pm

The entire purpose of groups for minorities are so people can go and meet other people of their group. I can go anywhere and meet a straight person. It's not to segregate a group away from people who aren't a member of that group, I'm sure most gay groups would happily welcome a straight member if they wanted to join, as all gay bars do. Gay people want to meet gay people, and gay bars aren't always the best option for that, some people don't drink and others want to do it while they're sober, that's why gay groups exist.

Annasopra · 17-02-2015 12:04am

BetterThanThou wrote: »

The entire purpose of groups for minorities are so people can go and meet other people of their group. I can go anywhere and meet a straight person. It's not to segregate a group away from people who aren't a member of that group, I'm sure most gay groups would happily welcome a straight member if they wanted to join, as all gay bars do. Gay people want to meet gay people, and gay bars aren't always the best option for that, some people don't drink and others want to do it while they're sober, that's why gay groups exist.

Exactly it serves a purpose of people socialising together with other people who understand them. I really dont understand this segregation argument at all or this idea that lgbt spaces are bad because it means lgbt people are not integrated with the rest of society. Whats the big deal? Some men like to socialise with other men. Some Irish people like to socialise with other Irish people, etc, etc.

I would hope that people looking at this from the outside would look at it in a positive frame of mind rather than seeking to destroy it.

LFC CONNAUGHTON · 17-02-2015 12:59am

Joeytheparrot wrote:

If LFC C means he is hopeful that mainstream places would be less violent and more toletant and welcoming of diversity I would agree with that.

exactly what I meant. and for these places to be about a place you could go to meet with fellow LGBT people, not because you don't feel accepted in other places

LFC CONNAUGHTON · 17-02-2015 1:01am

If these places were to be used to celebrate diversity it wound be great but unfortunately they must be used as somewhere LGBT people feel safe. They should feel safe and comfortable everywhere, not just in their own clubs etc.

baby and crumble · 17-02-2015 10:35am

LFC CONNAUGHTON wrote: »

If these places were to be used to celebrate diversity it wound be great but unfortunately they must be used as somewhere LGBT people feel safe. They should feel safe and comfortable everywhere, not just in their own clubs etc.

I think everyone agrees about the "should" part but there's no point in just being idealistic. There are times I don't feel safe just walking around in broad daylight because of my atypical gender presentation. That's life at the moment, but it's a hell of a lot better than it was for someone like me 50 years ago when all I could have hoped for was either being forced to wear dresses etc. or work in manual labour, practically "as a guy". I mean, I have to tone my preferred way of presenting to the world down for work, not actually because of anything from my bosses point of view, more from how other people will view me- and I'm in a pretty darn liberal sector! But progress is happening, it's just slow. And if you're not directly affected by it, it might be hard to see, but I can see a massive difference between now and say when I started college, 15 years ago.

But it's nice to sometimes go not just somewhere where I'm "accepted" or "tolerated" but actually somewhere where people are like me, and think "hey, her bowtie is awesome!" or whatever it is. And that's not always gay clubs, by the way. Probably the most welcoming and celebratory scene I've ever experienced is the burlesque scene, which isn't gay, or straight, it's just... burlesque. I know that I get laughed at by some people in the gay community, I know that they look at me pityingly, like "oh god, look at the sad middle-aged butch with her short hair and mens clothes." Luckily now that I'm middle-aged I don't give 2 sh*ts what the 20 year olds think, but hey!

OldNotWIse · 17-02-2015 11:51am

jobbridge4life wrote: »

There is a much more interesting question provoked by the above and it is to inquire as to why it is hopeful?

It's hopeful that there is no need, as opposed to hopeful they cease to exist.

jobbridge4life · 17-02-2015 11:53am

OldNotWIse wrote: »

It's hopeful that there is no need, as opposed to hopeful they cease to exist.

Well hopefully there will be no fear based need. I still hope we live in a society mature enough to handle some out and proud diversity.

OldNotWIse · 17-02-2015 11:56am

jobbridge4life wrote: »

Well hopefully there will be no fear based need. I still hope we live in a society mature enough to handle some out and proud diversity.

I agree! Maybe I took the post up wrong!

wakka12 · 22-02-2015 3:17pm

LFC CONNAUGHTON wrote: »

To start off, I would just like to say that in no way am I a racist or a homophobic person or anything like that but I am simply asking this question out of curiosity. For example, say an LGBT club that called itself that is fine, but a club that advertises itself as a straight club would be considered non okay?

90%+ of people are straight. You don't need a club... your everyday life is your 'straight club'

Why are groups particularly for minorities considered OK?

Comments