Super Sized Bus Stop - Rathmines Rd Upper

Linoge · 14-06-2006 4:24pm #1

Has anyone else seen the oversized bus stop now stretching half the length of Rathmines Road Upper? There have been marking put down over the last few days just outside my flat. I'm not sure how many buses need 50ft (not an exageration) to pull in. FFS, the 14 only goes about 5 times a day. This stop has taken up spaces for 3 cars at least. And of course it goes without saying, it was the side with free parking.

Has anyone else seen this? I defo would like to make a complaint, does anyone know who it should be to?
:mad: :mad: :mad:

popebenny16 · 14-06-2006 5:01pm

Busses are getting longer, there are tri-axles and bendibuses, so they probably have to make the boxes bigger and also to accomodate two at once. Dosnt the 15 do Rathmines road as well?

Victor · 14-06-2006 5:11pm

popebenny16 wrote:

Dosnt the 15 do Rathmines road as well?

Only the lower section, then it goes up Rathgar Road.

John R · 14-06-2006 5:41pm

Linoge wrote:

Has anyone else seen the oversized bus stop now stretching half the length of Rathmines Road Upper? There have been marking put down over the last few days just outside my flat. I'm not sure how many buses need 50ft (not an exageration) to pull in. FFS, the 14 only goes about 5 times a day. This stop has taken up spaces for 3 cars at least. And of course it goes without saying, it was the side with free parking.

Has anyone else seen this? I defo would like to make a complaint, does anyone know who it should be to?
:mad: :mad: :mad:

It sounds more or less like a standard modern stop, maybe a little bigger than average. There is supposed to be enough room to pull in completely level to allow wheelchair ramps be safely used.

BTW the 14A uses that road and there is one about every 40 minutes.

You could always complain to the planning department of the council, doubt it would do much good though. Believe it or not it is the Gardai who have final say about the placements of bus stops, good luck getting one interested in the topic though.

All the local councils in Dublin have been getting rid of free roadside parking spaces, either turning them into pay spaces or banning parking. The days of plentiful free parking near the city are gone now. I know of about a dozen or so left around the Stephen's Green area from when I worked there but there used to be many more.

popebenny16 · 14-06-2006 5:52pm

This is the road that goes down towards Palmerston Park/Cowper road so? I thought there were plenty of buses on that road, not only a couple a day.

John R · 14-06-2006 6:02pm

popebenny16 wrote:

This is the road that goes down towards Palmerston Park/Cowper road so? I thought there were plenty of buses on that road, not only a couple a day.

That's the one.

There used to be a more frequent service along there before Luas but it still has a regular service. Bus stops still required.

Victor · 14-06-2006 6:13pm

Standard bus is 10m+, VT is 12m, bendy bus is ...

http://www.dublinbus.ie/your_journey/viewer.asp?route=14 via Rathgar / Rathgar Road

http://www.dublinbus.ie/your_journey/viewer.asp?route=14a via Dartry (limited service via Palmerstown Park).

It might be more worthwhile to merge the two operating only on Rathmines Road Upper, assuming not so many people use the connection at Rathgar and can change instead at Rathmines Garda Station. Against this, the 14 has use of the inbound bus lane on Rathgar Road.

John R · 14-06-2006 6:39pm

Both routes are needed. The 14 is the only route that serves the north part of Orwell Rd, Braemor park and Braemor Rd. There are no other routes close to Braemor Rd.

Red Alert · 14-06-2006 7:07pm

I don't think they'll be buying any more bendibuses - they were almost universally disliked.

Mimikyu · 14-06-2006 9:06pm

This post has been deleted.

jman0 · 15-06-2006 10:39am

Linoge if you're living in Rathmines why do you own a car?
In my opinion you are being part of the problem.
Maybe this new bus stop is part of the solution.

Linoge · 16-06-2006 11:45am

Solitaryman666 wrote:

This post has been deleted.

I'll post up a pic this evening. It really is amazing.

jman0 wrote:

Linoge if you're living in Rathmines why do you own a car?
In my opinion you are being part of the problem.
Maybe this new bus stop is part of the solution.

I'm not going to dignify this absolute bollox talk/complete trolling with a response.

super_furry · 16-06-2006 11:52am

jman0 wrote:

Linoge if you're living in Rathmines why do you own a car?
In my opinion you are being part of the problem.
Maybe this new bus stop is part of the solution.

Agreed. More public transport facilities and less private car parking space on public roads will only benefit the city in the long run.

noeleenred · 16-06-2006 12:35pm

I think the path looks lovely now in Rathmines, I think they did a really nice job.

markpb · 16-06-2006 12:52pm

Linoge wrote:

Has anyone else seen the oversized bus stop now stretching half the length of Rathmines Road Upper? There have been marking put down over the last few days just outside my flat. I'm not sure how many buses need 50ft (not an exageration) to pull in.

I haven't seen the bus stop you're talking about but in Santry people routinely park in right beside bus stops, meaning there's nowhere for the bus to pull in - leaving it sitting on the road blocking traffic. The extra space is there to accomodate buses getting out of your way as you drive past.

It might escape our city planners but bus stops need to be considerably longer than the buses they serve.

popebenny16 · 16-06-2006 2:28pm

Linoge if you're living in Rathmines why do you own a car?
In my opinion you are being part of the problem.
Maybe this new bus stop is part of the solution

I wholeheartedly agree with this sentiment. The OP ought to be tied into his car, have it set alight and be driven off the North Wall, the swine!!

Actually he is part of the problem. We should have an end to this. A final solution.

Linoge · 16-06-2006 4:49pm

Ok, here are the pics.

And, I can't believe that I am actually replying to people who think that I should not be allowed to own a car.

So as not to be hypocritical, I hope these posters can all tick the following boxes:

Middle Class
Do not own a house
Do not invest in property
Save all their money
Do not consume luxury goods
Do not go on foreign holidays

I would not like to think that you are a social drain, contribute to house price increases, cause inflation or take money out of the country.

If you cannot tick every box then "you are part of the problem".

Back to the topic, the problem is not the bus stop, the bus stop has always been there. Its the sheer size of it (the length of 3 buses) that is the problem. See pics attached.

Alun · 16-06-2006 4:56pm

Linoge wrote:

Back to the topic, the problem is not the bus stop, the bus stop has always been there. Its the sheer size of it (the length of 3 buses) that is the problem. See pics attached.

Make up your mind ... first it was the length of 3 cars, now it's grown to 3 busses. As others have pointed out, if cars are parked right up to the ends of the bus stop area, and the bus wants to pull right in to the kerb, it's going to need a space considerably longer than the bus is to be able to do this.

Linoge · 16-06-2006 7:01pm

Alun wrote:

Make up your mind ... first it was the length of 3 cars, now it's grown to 3 busses.

Linoge wrote:

This stop has taken up spaces for 3 cars at least.

The bus stop is 3 buses in length in total. The extra length that has been added to the bus stop has taken up 3 car spaces. Why don't you try to understand "the essence of the argument" rather than just nit picking (and wrongly at that).

PS. The pic attached might have helped you.

Alun wrote:

As others have pointed out, if cars are parked right up to the ends of the bus stop area, and the bus wants to pull right in to the kerb, it's going to need a space considerably longer than the bus is to be able to do this.

I do read other peoples posts, thanks for reitterating.

HelterSkelter · 16-06-2006 11:32pm

jman0 wrote:

Linoge if you're living in Rathmines why do you own a car?
In my opinion you are being part of the problem.
Maybe this new bus stop is part of the solution.

Will you cop on, he pays road tax, he has every right to own a car. How do you know he is contributing to the problem anyway? For all you know he might get the bus to work everyday and use his car at weekends to drive back home.

jman0 · 17-06-2006 9:48am

HelterSkelter wrote:

Will you cop on, he pays road tax, he has every right to own a car. How do you know he is contributing to the problem anyway? For all you know he might get the bus to work everyday and use his car at weekends to drive back home.

He lives about 500m from a Luas line and right out his door apparently are major Bus lines. What if everybody in Dublin decided they should own a car?
Look around mate, the city is a cluster-f*ck of a car park on every bloody road already. Possibly most of them parked illegally (2 wheels up on footpath). You guys are the ones to cop on and exercise some social responsibility.
The car culture is unsustainable.
Is this the Ireland you want?
I know i don't.
Btw, Linoge doesn't pay road tax, he pays motor tax.
Oh, and if he just uses it on the weekend, then it's simply irresponsible and selfish to commandeer public road space to store your metal box thru the week.

cast_iron · 18-06-2006 12:41am

jman0 wrote:

Linoge if you're living in Rathmines why do you own a car?
In my opinion you are being part of the problem.
Maybe this new bus stop is part of the solution.

I agree with Linoge not dignifying this rubbish with a response.
You would have some (though very little) justification if you knew he worked on the luas/bus line, but you have absolutely no idea!
Perhaps he is a sales rep - so what, now he must give up his job?
Perhaps no luas bus will bring him close to where he works?
(assuming he works...i don't actually know!)

What's worse is people actually agree with you.

Simply put, if someone wants to buy a car, who are you to criticise them for doing it?

murphaph · 18-06-2006 10:26am

Owning a car is not the problem. Expecting your own space outside your city dwelling on the public highway is. In Germany, many people own 'weekend' cars and they often have to park them 10mins+ walk from their houses as there will be no parking allowed/not enough space outside their own flat. That's city life for you. Dublin isn't an overgrown vllage, it is actually a city and parking restrictions are one of the ways a city keeps moving. Find another place to park your car OP.

HelterSkelter · 18-06-2006 8:32pm

Get off your high horse, if you want to preach to people that owning a car is so wrong then start your own thread and don't hijack this. The OP has not even said he owns a car. He is complaining about the excessive length of the bus stop.

Aquavid · 19-06-2006 12:40am

Linoge wrote:

Has anyone else seen the oversized bus stop now stretching half the length of Rathmines Road Upper?

Half the length of Rathmines Road Upper? Gross over-estimation of the size of the bus bay.

Linoge wrote:

FFS, the 14 only goes about 5 times a day.

The 14A (which is the route that actually uses that road) runs 34 times a day Mon-Fri inbound. Gross under-estimation of the frequency of the bus route.

If you are going to complain about this to the traffic division of the Gardai, I would suggest that you get your facts in order before doing so.

Aquavid

murphaph · 19-06-2006 10:39am

HelterSkelter wrote:

Get off your high horse, if you want to preach to people that owning a car is so wrong then start your own thread and don't hijack this.

Read my post properly before lashing out. I actually said there was no problem owning a car :rolleyes:

HelterSkelter wrote:

The OP has not even said he owns a car. He is complaining about the excessive length of the bus stop.

Why would the length of a bus stop bother him? Surely it's better to have the bus stop (large or otherwise) outside his flat if he doesn't own a car!

Linoge · 20-06-2006 12:22am

jman0 wrote:

You guys are the ones to cop on and exercise some social responsibility.
The car culture is unsustainable.
Is this the Ireland you want?
I know i don't..

See my post above about consumer behaviour, a much bigger gollum.

jman0 wrote:

Btw, Linoge doesn't pay road tax, he pays motor tax.

Yes, it is called motor tax, but my motor tax pays for the roads. Whats your point?

murphaph wrote:

Owning a car is not the problem. Expecting your own space outside your city dwelling on the public highway is. In Germany, many people own 'weekend' cars and they often have to park them 10mins+ walk from their houses as there will be no parking allowed/not enough space outside their own flat. That's city life for you. Dublin isn't an overgrown vllage, it is actually a city and parking restrictions are one of the ways a city keeps moving. Find another place to park your car OP.

Do you swear to tell the truth and the whole truth.....??
Germany
land: 349,223 sq km
Rail track km46,166
Ireland
land: 68,890 sq km
Rail Track: 3,312

7 x land mass and 15 x rail track (for example)

Have you ever been to Germany?? I don't exactly think that you are comparing like with like.
Tell us where they park their cars in Addis Ababa if you really want to compare like with like:rolleyes:

Aquavid wrote:

Half the length of Rathmines Road Upper? Gross over-estimation of the size of the bus bay.

The 14A (which is the route that actually uses that road) runs 34 times a day Mon-Fri inbound. Gross under-estimation of the frequency of the bus route.

If you are going to complain about this to the traffic division of the Gardai, I would suggest that you get your facts in order before doing so.

Aquavid

You are a legend:D

Ok, for all you non believers and non-readers of posts out there, here are yet more pics that might help you understand the situation.

So, now we have pics of 2 bus stops, on either side of Rathmines Road Upper. One side is pay parking, one side is not. I can't tell which one.... can you????

And Helter and Cast, thanks for the support, but I really think we are hitting our heads against a brick wall with some people here. Kinda looking forward to what Aquavid will say next though!:D

Victor · 20-06-2006 1:23am

I took a look at it this morning. That was me goose-stepping up the road outside your bedroom at 07:30.

Linoge wrote:

I'm not sure how many buses need 50ft (not an exageration) to pull in.

This would appear to about right.

I think its down to two factors (a) its near a corner to Rathmines Avenue, so its problematic if the bus overshoots the stop, nowhere to board safely and line of sight is compromised (b) one has to make sure the bus pulls into the kerb, not just for passenger safety and convenience, but also to avoid obstructing the road.

murphaph · 20-06-2006 1:36am

Linoge wrote:

Germany
land: 349,223 sq km
Rail track km46,166
Ireland
land: 68,890 sq km
Rail Track: 3,312

7 x land mass and 15 x rail track (for example)

Germany also has 80 million people and a much more dispersed population at that. Ireland has 4 million with a quarter of that in the Greater Dublin Region! Dublin is perfectly comparable with a german city of similar size for our purposes. Here's why-you are claiming that because your average 1 million citizen german city has a proper rail network and Dublin doesn't, that we shouldn't compare traffic management strategies? That's ridiculous quite frankly because in the city with poorer rail based solutions you actually need stricter traffic/parking restrictions to allow the arguably more important road based public transport (buses) to function as well as possible.

Linoge wrote:

Have you ever been to Germany?? I don't exactly think that you are comparing like with like.
Tell us where they park their cars in Addis Ababa if you really want to compare like with like:rolleyes:

I've been to Germany more times than I can remember, to multiple cities. People often park their cars a long walk from home as they only use them at the weekend. Nobody would expect a space outside their flat. You'd be very lucky if you got one. Dublin Bus has it's faults, but I am willing to bet that public transport is better even in Dublin than Addis Ababa.

I have no problem with car ownership or whatever, but you live on an arterial route in the city Linoge, you simply can't expect that route to provide parking spaces (free or otherwise) in perpetuity. Look at the proliferation of Red Routes in London over the past few years-more and more stopping/parking restrictions to help the traffic move. The fact is that bus stops have been too small for years in Dublin-leading to offside loading and other dangerous practices which put passengers at risk. In this day ad age of access for disabled folks/babies buggies the bus simply MUST be able to get fully parallel to the kerb to enable it to kneel safely. If an area has a lot of on-street parking then the bus stop has to be longer than in an area where no such parking takes place. I'm not a bus or HGV driver but I'd challenge you to parallel park a double decker bus between two cars in a space the exact length of that bus (or even a good bit longer!), and remember-the bus can't reverse parallel park-it has to get parallel to the kerb by driving forwards at all times and they may be future proofing the stop to take two or more buses at the same time, further increasing the length of the required stop.

John R · 20-06-2006 2:00am

Victor wrote:

I took a look at it this morning. That was me goose-stepping up the road outside your bedroom at 07:30. :DThis would appear to about right.

100 posts a day and enough spare time to stalk posters, I'm truly impressed.

If it is around 50 feet then that is hardly the 3 bus lengths the OP was suggesting. A typical city bus is around 35 feet long so the stop is a bus and a half long, hardly excessive considering it is inset from parked cars.

The more modern practice of having stops that jut out past obstructions into the street are better and can be shorter but people really object to them.

The picture Linogue posted of the stop on the opposite side is a perfect illustration of a bad bus stop. A pole in the pavement surronded by parked cars. How the hell is the bus supposed to get near the pavement for infirm or disabled passengers to get on?

Victor · 20-06-2006 2:09am

John R wrote:

The picture Linogue posted of the stop on the opposite side is a perfect illustration of a bad bus stop. A pole in the pavement surronded by parked cars. How the hell is the bus supposed to get near the pavement for infirm or disabled passengers to get on?

Actually there is a second stop on that side of the road, only a little further down outside the post office, but again it suffers from illegal parking (as opposed to just being unmarked), as do the adjacent wheelchair spaces.

MiniD · 20-06-2006 9:09am

To the original poster, Linogue. Buses have been using this stretch of road for many years, and I'm sure that stop was there when you moved in to your flat. Your main argument seems to be that the bus bay now has markings, presumably because residents were parking at the bus stop, ignoring the fact that buses do need to pull into the kerb. This stop is not oversized, infact if you compare it to others in the area you will see how similar they are. You came on with incorrect facts which Aquavid has rightly corrected. The 14A is a busy route and Rathmines is a busy area, so it is only right the bus should be able to pull in, be thankful your road does not have a bus lane.
Perhaps when you move next you should check there is no bus stop outside your door!

Aquavid · 20-06-2006 9:27am

Linoge wrote:

Kinda looking forward to what Aquavid will say next though!:D

I'm not here to start any huge argument - just wanted to make sure that the facts were not skewed too far in the anti-bus direction

If you do try to contact the various authorities about this stop, be prepared to meet with a wall of indifference.

I contacted both the City Council and the Gardai back in 2004 when the changes at Stephens Green resulted in a stop being allocated to the 48A that was totally blocked by nose to kerb pay parking, resulting in pax having to disembark through lines of parked cars.

The first reaction was to deny that this was the case. I had obviously never been to Stephens Green, and did not know what I was talking about.

I sent them photos.

There followed a long period of silence, followed by blame-shifting when I continued to follow up.

Eventually I published my article (as per "Conflicts of Interest" section, I am Irish Correspondent for the transport trade journal "Coach & Bus Week" ) .

The magazine goes to various people in the trade, including Department of Transport, and would be read by many local authorities in the UK, and by people who might be in the same professional bodies as some of our transport professionals over here.

Within 24 hours of publication, a City Council crew had come out at 2am, and burned all the parking bay markings off the road.

The following day I received a call from the Garda press Office, and was told in a smirking voice "We have been down to the site this morning, and the situation is not as you described it, there are no parking bays at the bus stop, you were mistaken".

So, as I said, be prepared for a wall of indifference if you make any complaint.

However, I do have to thank you for the photo pointing out the lack of a marked bus bay on the other side of the road, resulting in a similar situation.

Rest assured that this will be my next mission . . .

Aquavid

Linoge · 20-06-2006 9:28am

murphaph wrote:

I have no problem with car ownership or whatever.

Well, can you see how I would get a bit defensive when people say I shouldn't even own a car? I'm having to justify car ownership and living in Rathmines here as well as ranting about the bus stop!

I feel like a smoggie! http://www.babalaclub.com/imagenes/dibus/smoggies_ok.jpg

murphaph wrote:

Dublin is perfectly comparable with a german city of similar size for our purposes. Here's why-you are claiming that because your average 1 million citizen german city has a proper rail network and Dublin doesn't, that we shouldn't compare traffic management strategies?

I agree, but traffic management should be somewhat in line with what the transport system can accomodate. This is a wholly different argument though. I would love to see Dublin have a metro at the expensive of anything or anyone.

murphaph wrote:

I've been to Germany more times than I can remember, to multiple cities. People often park their cars a long walk from home as they only use them at the weekend. Nobody would expect a space outside their flat. You'd be very lucky if you got one. Dublin Bus has it's faults, but I am willing to bet that public transport is better even in Dublin than Addis Ababa.

Its not what I expect, its what I am entitled to. Whether you like to admit it or not, this is not Germany. Dublin is a city where people park outside the front of their house. I am not entitled to a parking permit as my side of the road is free parking. The other side is pay parking. They have decided to put a bus stop on my side of the road and not on the other. I have no problem with bus stops, buses (massive problem with Dublin Bus though:mad: ) etc but the standards should be homogenous across the city, or even just on the same road.

murphaph wrote:

I am
Look at the proliferation of Red Routes in London over the past few years-more and more stopping/parking restrictions to help the traffic move. The fact is that bus stops have been too small for years in Dublin-leading to offside loading and other dangerous practices which put passengers at risk. In this day ad age of access for disabled folks/babies buggies the bus simply MUST be able to get fully parallel to the kerb to enable it to kneel safely. If an area has a lot of on-street parking then the bus stop has to be longer than in an area where no such parking takes place. I'm not a bus or HGV driver but I'd challenge you to parallel park a double decker bus between two cars in a space the exact length of that bus (or even a good bit longer!), and remember-the bus can't reverse parallel park-it has to get parallel to the kerb by driving forwards at all times and they may be future proofing the stop to take two or more buses at the same time, further increasing the length of the required stop.

I agree that although the bus stop is quite large, it is probably not oversized by todays standards.

I've changed my rant to "I have to suffer it, everyone else should too".

popebenny16 · 20-06-2006 12:35pm

Lads, is there any chance that when the line painters were going about their duties they simply read the measurements wrong and made the box too big?

As for the O/p and his dirty, filthy car which is going to kill my children (how sweet and innocent they look) I now know where you live and you may find a lot of skips may be coming your way, so dump your car in that, you swine!!

BTW, like another poster above, I have to declare a conflict of interest. I dated a bus once, she was lovely, but it all ended in tyres.

Hotblack Desiato · 21-06-2006 1:11am

Linoge wrote:

Dublin is a city where people park outside the front of their house.

And have come to regard this as some sort of entitlement... :rolleyes:

Linoge · 21-06-2006 8:37am

ninja900 wrote:

And have come to regard this as some sort of entitlement... :rolleyes:

Quite literally yes. Do you regard free education as your entitlement?:rolleyes: :rolleyes:

And popebenny, sorry about your children, but I think my 5 litre Caddy (parked with 2 wheels on the kerb in a handicapped spot) is a little more important than a few children:D

Húrin · 22-06-2006 4:52am

Wow OP, you live so near me. I agree that the bus stop is rather long to justify considering how only one route travels that road.

markpb · 22-06-2006 8:28am

H&#250 wrote: »

Wow OP, you live so near me. I agree that the bus stop is rather long to justify considering how only one route travels that road.

*bangs head*

Did you read any of the replies or just skip to the end? There's a perfectly decent bus service serving that road, who cares if its just one bus route? Buses need space to bull in and out, they don't scuttle sideways into bus stops that are the same size as their own shadow. People park right up to bus stops so extra space is needed to allow the bus to scuttle back out of the bus stop again. It's on a corner so extra space is needed because buses are, shockingly, longer than cars.

There are countless, valid, reasons for big bus stops.

Hotblack Desiato · 22-06-2006 9:28am

Linoge wrote:

Quite literally yes. Do you regard free education as your entitlement?:rolleyes: :rolleyes:

How on earth are the two remotely comparable? But ridiculous analogies are only the start of it, car commuters want to force everyone in this city to fall in with the serious drawbacks of their chosen lifestyle.

Whatever you might think, or wish was the case, there is no automatic right to park your vehicle in any public place. Either park on private property or accept the restrictions, rules and regulations put in place by the public authorities to control and regulate the use of limited road space.

Car commuting is destroying this city and the quality of life for everyone who lives within it - including you - you just don't realise it yet.

And popebenny, sorry about your children, but I think my 5 litre Caddy (parked with 2 wheels on the kerb in a handicapped spot) is a little more important than a few children:D

Remove the smiley and that's the attitude of many Dublin car drivers in a nutshell!

cast_iron · 22-06-2006 5:30pm

ninja900 wrote:

car commuters want to force everyone in this city to fall in with the serious drawbacks of their chosen lifestyle.

In fairness, that isn't quite true. Alot of commuters have NO option but to use their car to get to work. The public transport isn't exactly world class in Dublin! Chosen lifestyle?? For most people it's a job that puts bread on the table and can't just tootle off to another job that mite be on their bus route.

ninja900 wrote:

Whatever you might think, or wish was the case, there is no automatic right to park your vehicle in any public place. Either park on private property or accept the restrictions, rules and regulations put in place by the public authorities to control and regulate the use of limited road space.

I agree. People should not EXPECT to be able to park outside their front door if it's a public road.

ninja900 wrote:

Car commuting is destroying this city and the quality of life for everyone who lives within it - including you - you just don't realise it yet.

Some would argue it already has...

Victor · 22-06-2006 8:26pm

cast_iron wrote:

In fairness, that isn't quite true. Alot of commuters have NO option but to use their car to get to work.

In fairness, that isn't quite true about people living in Rathmines.

14 | 14A | 15A | 15B | 15C | 15E | 15F | 15N | 18 | 49N | 65 | 65B | 65X | 83 |

Go To Ranelagh, Harold's Cross or Camden Street and you get lots more again.

Hotblack Desiato · 22-06-2006 10:03pm

cast_iron wrote:

Alot of commuters have NO option but to use their car to get to work.

No other option? For people within the city that's just not true. Depending on distance you have walking, cycling, motorcycling without even considering public transport.
Many people claim they must travel by car for their job, by which they mean they haven't figured out that they can keep a suit jacket and spare shirt hanging up in work and cycle...

The public transport isn't exactly world class in Dublin!

No? Really??? :eek:
It would be a damn sight better, without a single extra euro of public investment, if it were not for car gridlock. It's partially chicken-and-egg but there's also a huge laziness/selfishness factor too.
You can't really blame people when it costs so much to buy and insure a car but we have among the cheapest petrol in Europe, it makes the apparent cost of car commuting attractive - but not all costs are financial and not all are paid by the driver.

cast_iron · 23-06-2006 12:30am

Victor wrote:

In fairness, that isn't quite true about people living in Rathmines.

14 | 14A | 15A | 15B | 15C | 15E | 15F | 15N | 18 | 49N | 65 | 65B | 65X | 83 |

Go To Ranelagh, Harold's Cross or Camden Street and you get lots more again.

Granted, but in fairness, if you read both mine and ninja's post on that point, neither of us mentioned Rathmines ("this city" is what he said). It was a general point he made and i responded to.

In any case, just cos you live in Rathmines (central as it is) doesn't mean you work close by or in town or one of the above bus routes, or even close to a connecting bus route.

ninja900 wrote:

No other option? For people within the city that's just not true. Depending on distance you have walking, cycling, motorcycling without even considering public transport.
Many people claim they must travel by car for their job, by which they mean they haven't figured out that they can keep a suit jacket and spare shirt hanging up in work and cycle...

What i'm saying is not all jobs are quite that convenient - within cycle distance (in our weather!), with shower facilities (needed after a cycle). Nor is it easy! I cycle to work daily - half hour in morning, longer in evening (due to incline and a long hard day at work!)

ninja900 wrote:

No? Really???
It would be a damn sight better, without a single extra euro of public investment, if it were not for car gridlock. It's partially chicken-and-egg but there's also a huge laziness/selfishness factor too.
You can't really blame people when it costs so much to buy and insure a car but we have among the cheapest petrol in Europe, it makes the apparent cost of car commuting attractive - but not all costs are financial and not all are paid by the driver.

Well this is close to the heart of the matter. It's the way of the Irish really....we've done it for so long, so don't take to it too well now that we can't.

Just don't tar everyone with the same brush. And i couldn't be bothered reading back, but i still don't think the OP has said he owns a car.

a_ominous · 24-06-2006 9:05am

When I read Linoge's first post, I noticed that the stop was increased in size on the side with free spaces. Well the Corpo are hardly likely to remove _paying_ spaces are they??

H&#250 wrote: »

Wow OP, you live so near me. I agree that the bus stop is rather long to justify considering how only one route travels that road.

How does the frequency of the bus service relate to the length of the bus?

Linoge · 25-06-2006 4:23pm

a_ominous wrote:

When I read Linoge's first post, I noticed that the stop was increased in size on the side with free spaces. Well the Corpo are hardly likely to remove _paying_ spaces are they??

Alot of people are missing this point.

Ninja, there is a difference between being "entitled" and "expecting" a free parking space outside my front door. A free parking space is there and I'm as entitled as everyone else to use it. (Comparable to free education because it is available to everyone, so everyone is entitled to it).

With regards to Dublins transport system, I really don't think people realise how bad it is in comparison to other cities (maybe they are all driving cars so don't notice!). Paris, London, NY all have amazing metros. Granted they are major cities, but some more comparable cities by size and population, Oslo, Stockholm, Prague, all have metros.

The current public transport situation means that it may be possible to cut 1-2 hours per day off commuting times by using a car. You can hardly blame people who already work long and hard hours to want to get home to spend more time with their families at at the expense of "destroying the city". At the very least it would be quite difficult to translate your one car to adding to the gridlock.

Hotblack Desiato · 26-06-2006 2:42pm

Linoge wrote:

Ninja, there is a difference between being "entitled" and "expecting" a free parking space outside my front door. A free parking space is there and I'm as entitled as everyone else to use it.

Sure you are, and the council are also entitled to remove it to improve public transport provision.
Also it's Dublin City Council's policy to remove all free on-street parking within the canals, eventually this will work its way outwards too. This makes on-street parking available for people doing business in an area as opposed to having it all taken up by residents.
Eventually it will be like Tokyo, no private off-street parking = no car.

The current public transport situation means that it may be possible to cut 1-2 hours per day off commuting times by using a car.

Depends on the journey, that's certainly not true on radial routes, where I live the car is slower than the bus but still lots of people go by car... and public transport isn't the only alternative to cars, as I said earlier. Other European cities have a much higher proportion of cyclists and motorcyclists than we do, and it's not down to the weather, we have some sort of cultural blind spot against the users of 2-wheelers here.

At the very least it would be quite difficult to translate your one car to adding to the gridlock.

but every car does add to the gridlock. It is comical to hear car drivers giving out about the traffic with a complete lack of irony

especially when they have realistic alternatives but can't be ar*ed using them.

Linoge · 27-06-2006 10:35am

ninja900 wrote:

Sure you are, and the council are also entitled to remove it to improve public transport provision..

Which is even more to the point. The side with pay parking doesn't have these lines, and its literally the other side of the road! See the pics above.

ninja900 wrote:

Depends on the journey, that's certainly not true on radial routes, where I live the car is slower than the bus but still lots of people go by car... and public transport isn't the only alternative to cars, as I said earlier. ..

cast_iron wrote:

What i'm saying is not all jobs are quite that convenient - within cycle distance (in our weather!), with shower facilities (needed after a cycle). Nor is it easy! I cycle to work daily - half hour in morning, longer in evening (due to incline and a long hard day at work!)..

It does depend on the journey, so you are certainly admitting that it makes sense to own a car on some routes (I think that it is the vast majority of routes). That aside, how many times have buses passed you, not turned up, or been too full for you to get on? Can I also reitterate casts point above. Cycling does not suit everyone.

ninja900 wrote:

Other European cities have a much higher proportion of cyclists and motorcyclists than we do, and it's not down to the weather, we have some sort of cultural blind spot against the users of 2-wheelers here.

It is down to the weather! Do they all cycle in Glasgow or Oslo??!

ninja900 wrote:

but every car does add to the gridlock. It is comical to hear car drivers giving out about the traffic with a complete lack of irony especially when they have realistic alternatives but can't be ar*ed using them.

Realistic is a matter of opinion. Is it realistic to get up at 6am to make sure you get a parking spot at the train station or to get the only train that will get you in before 9 o'clock (that also gets you in before 8 o'clock), or to get the earlier bus because your bus is usually late or doesn't arrive.

My argument is not "lets all use cars", its that there really is no realistic alternative for alot of commuters. The whole city needed a Transport 21 X 5 about 20 years ago.

Individual commuters will not change their attitudes unless there is an incentive for them to. Longer commute times on dirty hot/cold buses, cycling with maniac drivers for an hour etc. and all for what, so it will be easier for other people who still use cars to get to work? It needs to be cost and time saving to use public transport. In Dublin it is not either.

MiniD · 27-06-2006 6:29pm

Linoge wrote:

Individual commuters will not change their attitudes unless there is an incentive for them to. Longer commute times on dirty hot/cold buses, cycling with maniac drivers for an hour etc. and all for what, so it will be easier for other people who still use cars to get to work? It needs to be cost and time saving to use public transport. In Dublin it is not either.

Recent reports have shown that infact people are making the switch to bus. Usually the incentive here is that the bus will have priority over the car, and for that to happen it means bus bays similar to the one outside your home have to be enforced. I suspect the reason the lines were painted here at the stop was because cars were parking at the bus stop, making it difficult for buses to pull in, causing delays to traffic on the road. It is very easy to throw up the argument of dirty hot/cold buses and compare that to the luxury of your own car, but the fact is that Dublin has one of the newest bus fleets in Europe, with an ever increasing fleet of low floor buses, needing access to the footpath for those with mobility issues. I would go further and point out that the some of the routes in Rathmines have the newest buses in the city at the moment, so the image of you having to sit on a freezing cold vehicle simply dosen't wash.

You throw statements around a little too loosely, on your point of not saving money by using buses, you might be surprised at how cheap it can be to use the bus. A bus journey from Rathmines to anywhere in Dublin City & County costs just €1.60 using a prepaid ticket, or if you avail of a tax-saver ticket, you could have a day's travel for the same price.

Again, I ask you Linoge. Were you aware when you moved into your flat that there was a bus stop outside your home? I'm presuming you were as it is quite obvious. If so, why are you so surprised that buses need to stop at a bus stop? Your point, while valid, about the stop opposite, bears no relevance to the fact that a bus is entitled to pull into the stop outside your home without obstruction. There may be a reason for the other side of the road having no markings, perhaps it is because of pay & display parking, maybe traffic flow is not as heavy on that particular part of the road or it could be any number of reasons.

shoegirl · 29-06-2006 11:32am

jman0 wrote:

Linoge if you're living in Rathmines why do you own a car?
In my opinion you are being part of the problem.
Maybe this new bus stop is part of the solution.

Thats a huge assumption to make. Proportionately very few people work in the city centre any more, even those living in Rathmines. Most people I know living in Rathmines either work locally or else in Sandyford, Clonskeagh or further afield. Dublin has become an "edge city". This is replicated all over Dublin, on all 3 sides of the city.

shoegirl · 29-06-2006 11:38am

MiniD wrote:

You throw statements around a little too loosely, on your point of not saving money by using buses, you might be surprised at how cheap it can be to use the bus. A bus journey from Rathmines to anywhere in Dublin City & County costs just €1.60 using a prepaid ticket, or if you avail of a tax-saver ticket, you could have a day's travel for the same price.

I agree that people should use the services, but the services in and around Dublin 6 pre-Luas were horrendous, and if traffic is anything like it was 5 years ago when I lived in the area, it impacts on buses as well as cars.

I originally moved to the area by the way, because I worked in Ranelagh. However I was laid off within 12 months and after applying for about 200 jobs got one in Bray and later, Cherrywood. (In fact of the 20-30 interviews I had at the time, only 2 jobs were located in the city centre and one of those was planning to relocate to Blanch). To get to the nearest bus stop was a 20 minute walk. To get to the DART was a 15 minute cycle, but then this meant changing to a bus at the other side. So my best option was - unfortunately, as I prefer to cycle/walk/public transport - to drive. Within 2 months of starting I had a car full of colleagues living around me grateful for a lift.

Please don't be so judgemental of those driving in Dublin as the transport system even now badly lets down those who work in the industrial and commercial sectors which are increasingly locating or relocating to the outer suburbs. There is nothing wrong with having a car per se, as long as you use alternatives as much as possible and avoid using unless you have to.

Super Sized Bus Stop - Rathmines Rd Upper

Comments