Labrador puppy diaries - our first days of dog ownership

Zulu · 22-02-2011 11:52am

Absolutely no offense taken - and thanks for taking the time to respond.
I had a feeling the collar might have been too far too soon - hence asking for advice/opinions.

I definitely do not want to move her into our bedroom, as I want to make it clear that bedrooms are out-of-bounds.

Arragh I know she's only a baby, it's just I really want to nip the barking in the bud. I want her to know that barking (unless it's to go out for toilet) is not on. I don't mind a few barks, but non-stop for an hour isn't something I want to establish as ok.
Our neighbors are being very patient, but that won't last forever.

I also reckon once I can exercise her, it'll greatly help to burning off energy, but at the moment, we're 8 days away from being allowed to walk, and at that - we'll only be able to walk for 15mins - which isn't enough to tire her out. We make her work for her food (hiding it, and putting it in a bottle which she has to figure out how to get the food out), but I think we're now caught between a rock (loads of energy) and a hard place (not being able to walk her), and the excess energy is causing the problem. I don't want her to pick up this as a bad habit at this stage.

We're starting puppy classes on Tuesday the 1st & I'm really, REALLY looking forward to it. It'll be great to get her out and about & for us to be working together.

In terms of training her not to bark, we've tried ignoring it (didn't work), we've tried the can-o-pennies (didn't work), we've tried leaving the room (didn't work - she does it when we're out of the room). Also - she doesn't really bark during the day when we are out (I video her) - she'll bark for 10mins then sleep. It seems to be only at 4am & 7am.

I'd greatly appreciate any other idea you might have to dealing with it.

Also, when should I expect her to grow out of this sort of behavior (if it's a puppy thing)? ...and how long do you feel, I start wait before worrying about bad behavior?

Angelmangle · 22-02-2011 1:57pm

Because she is a social animal it is not natural for her to be on her own, she is very very young and has come from an environment where she always had company in the form of her littermates and mother and the compfort and security they afforded to a situation where she is expected to be on her own for extended periods of time. If dogs were left to their own devices this would never happen as they would naturally live in a pack. You have therefore taken on the role of her pack and must realise that she will need extra care and attention at this stage as she is still very much a baby.

Barking etc is her way of telling you that she does not want to be left on her own, and that is only natural for her to feel this was at her age. The same as pooing/weeing in the house, eating furniture (and your favourite shoes), mobile phones etc. She is only a small puppy and will be jumping up and barking for attention and comfort not because she is being deliberately naughty. It is all part of of the process of having a baby dog I'm afraid and something she will grow out of in time.

Zulu · 22-02-2011 2:24pm

Hi Angelmangle, I don't mean to sound kurt or appear rude, so please forgive me if I do, but I understand WHY she is barking, I'm trying to get advice on how to PREVENT her from doing the same & to encourage her not to in future.

Cherry Blossom · 22-02-2011 2:29pm

Zulu wrote: »

Hi Angelmangle, I don't mean to sound kurt or appear rude, so please forgive me if I do, but I understand WHY she is barking, I'm trying to get advice on how to PREVENT her from doing the same & to encourage her not to in future.

I think you are missing the point, the way to prevent her from barking is to not leave her on her own

. A puppy is a puppy and will act like one. It is recommended that dogs get used to being left alone for very short periods of time to start with starting when they are 4 to 5 months old. On top of this Labs are one of the most needy and people orientated breeds there is, they cannot cope with being left to their own devices for any extended period of time at any age. You had said previously in the thread that you had done your research thoroughly and you seem to understand the issues here. I don't really understand how you can't comprehend the situation. It seems you have all the knowledge but don't want to take it on board or are just letting it go over your head or something.

Zulu · 22-02-2011 3:07pm

No I got the point alright, I'm just trying to pick peoples brains on how to stop a dog from barking for an hour at 4am - other than bringing it into the bedroom.

Or. If there is no possible way. How long I can expect this period to last. Should I take it from your post that I should expect this to last for 5 months? That seems a bit long.

Cherry Blossom · 22-02-2011 3:45pm

If it were me tbh I'd just have the crate in my room by your bed and gradually move it inch by inch towards the door untill its outside it and still leave the (bedroom) door open to start with. To me anyway that's what getting a pup used to sleeping alone at night means. Either that or just ignoring it which is a less kind option, especially to the neighbours if its starting to bug them. Have a 4 yr old child in this house so just ignoring the noise wouldn't be an option at all for me.

Cherry Blossom · 22-02-2011 3:49pm

Just occured to me that you said she's fine until she gets out for her toilet break, so maybe it could become a routine to move the crat into your room when she comes back in, as you will gradually be making the 4am time later then she also gets to spend gradually less time in your room.

Angelmangle · 22-02-2011 3:51pm

By the time she is three months old she should be reasonably settled. To be honest, we have always had more than one dog, so while we might have a new puppy it always settled in quite quickly as it never slept on its own - it would sleep with the other dogs and we put newspaper down for her in case of accidents at night and gradually as she got older she learned to wait until the morning to go out, but it took time.

Having a puppy on her own will be a lot more work I'm afraid as you will be replacing her "pack" and she will reply on you alone for company and comfort. I'm not critizising you in any way for having one dog - just telling you that it is easier with two especially when they are small.

Cherry Blossom · 22-02-2011 3:56pm

Zulu wrote: »

How long I can expect this period to last. Should I take it from your post that I should expect this to last for 5 months? That seems a bit long.

I can't really give an accurate answer on this tbh as it's 14 years since I had a lab puppy and our fella had an extremely traumatic start in life so wouldn't be an indication anyway, he had much bigger issues. My non-lab pup I have now though would have been around the 5 month mark before she was happy to be left for more than a few hours, she sleeps in my bed most of the time anyway but has digestive problems so does have to sleep in the hall when she gets a dodgy tummy.

Zulu · 22-02-2011 4:02pm

snipping the snippyness.

Zulu · 22-02-2011 4:08pm

Angelmangle wrote: »

By the time she is three months old she should be reasonably settled.

Cheers, that's not too bad at all really, I might just kip on the couch from 4am-6am with her for the next week or so, in that case.

we put newspaper down for her in case of accidents at night and gradually as she got older she learned to wait until the morning to go out, but it took time.

Unfortunatly she's no doggy companions, so she'll have to do with me. We're crate training so we're not using newspapers at all.

Having a puppy on her own will be a lot more work I'm afraid as you will be replacing her "pack" and she will reply on you alone for company and comfort. I'm not critizising you in any way for having one dog - just telling you that it is easier with two especially when they are small.

Yea having a second dog would be great, but it's not an option

ahh well.

adrenalinjunkie wrote: »

Just occured to me that you said she's fine until she gets out for her toilet break, so maybe it could become a routine to move the crat into your room when she comes back in, as you will gradually be making the 4am time later then she also gets to spend gradually less time in your room.

Yea, only she can't come into the bedroom - the wife won't have it!!!

Angelmangle · 22-02-2011 4:18pm

I remember when we first got dogs, my other half had very set expectations about what they would be allowed do and not do.

At the start the stipulations were were "no dogs on the furniture", that lasted about five hours, then "no dogs upstairs" and the natural conclusion of "no dogs on the bed", that all changed very quickly too. I personally don't mind them on the furniture or on the bed - some people do and that's totally fair enough, people are individuals - but I did expect them to move when I told them to and not jump all over me unless invited, again when they had grown up, puppies are different I think. They need a higher level of attention. We ended up with four altogether in the end and all lived together and walked together harmoniously (most of the time). The key is actually to be consistent and very very patient I think :rolleyes:

Cherry Blossom · 22-02-2011 4:25pm

Zulu wrote: »

I also understand that she needs to know:
what is acceptable behaviour

what isn’t acceptable behaviour

She isn't in anyway able to understand this at 10 weeks.

Zulu wrote: »

our
I've also read that the puppy would fairly quickly make the break from her original litter and adopt her new "pack" at this age. I'm working off the understanding that since she's happy to go to her crate at night time she's comfortable & has happily adopted this new pack. ...but perhaps I'm wrong.

No this wouldn't happen naturally until she is well into adolescence (over a year old). When adopted into a new 'pack' they are still not left alone at all.

TBH I an not a fan of this 'pack leader' theory and dominating dogs into submission, especially since I am not fluent in dog

. As far as I see it animals have limited comprehension but she knows you are not a dog. She sees beings as one of the following categories:

1. something she can eat
2. something which might eat her
3. some sort of being that exists but isn't really anything to do with her (eg. dogs that are familiar with horses)
4. something that is the same as her (other dogs) or co-exists and has behaviour patterns that are sort of familiar but not quite and she can learn what they mean in time.

A 10 week old puppy does not have the capacity or attention span to learn how to speak human, when she does she'll be a lot better at it than you can speak dog.

Zulu · 22-02-2011 4:26pm

Yea, I'd probably let her up on the couch myself, but I've no problem sitting on the floor with her on my lap. We stand united on the bedrooms though.

I guess there's two things here -
1) I really want to make the best start possible as I reckon it'll make life much easier as we go on &
2) because I can't get a clear indication of when a baby puppy becomes a puppy puppy (if you know what I mean) I'm probably reacting too quickly & dramatically to small & (probably relatively) insignificant changes in behavior!

Zulu · 22-02-2011 4:32pm

adrenalinjunkie wrote: »

She isn't in anyway able to understand this at 10 weeks.

ohh, so when (abouts) do I start to teach these boundries?

A 10 week old puppy does not have the capacity or attention span to learn how to speak human, when she does she'll be a lot better at it than you can speak dog.

I think she knows more than she lets on

I am supposed to be starting now though amn't I? She seems to be picking up "get busy", "sit", "leave it" & "take it" perfectly well - should I be holding back on this?

Cherry Blossom · 22-02-2011 4:45pm

What she is learning at this stage is that certain sounds/signals are associated with certain things she does and performing them when she hears the sound or when the signal happens earns her a reward. You need to take your queues from the dog as to what they are capable of . . . as you are finding out.

Angelmangle · 22-02-2011 5:03pm

Try not to over think and analyise things too much - I know you want the very best for your new puppy and I totally applaud you for that (I wish that everybody who got a dog put as much thought and effort into it) but try and relax and go with the flow too. She will get used to you and vice versa, give yourself time and don't rush training at this stage.

When our puppies were small it was socialisation, socialisation and more socialisation which was really important for them. We used to show them so it was very important that they were comfortable around other people and dogs and in noisy places - which most dogs shows are as anyone who has been to one will agree

Socialisation is equally important when they are just out for a walk, learning how to behave around other people and other dogs so starting puppy training classes and then moving on to obedience classes when she is older will all benefit her hugely and you as well as you will meet like minded people and have the opportunity to talk and "bounce ideas" off other people. By the way the DSPCA hold dog training classes and their main trainer is amazing - I've seen him in action and I was honestly really impressed with him.

tk123 · 22-02-2011 5:30pm

Zulu wrote: »

Also, when should I expect her to grow out of this sort of behavior (if it's a puppy thing)? ...and how long do you feel, I start wait before worrying about bad behavior?

:pac: Hehe well my guy is 2 in July so I'll let you know if and when it happens!!

She won't get bold for a while yet so don't be worrying about that at this stage - she's normal puppy bold

I used to sit with him asleep in my lap in the morning so he wouldn't wake everyone up. Then I decided to take him in the sitting room and go asleep on the couch with him on the floor beside me in his little bed and he'd just go asleep so at least I wasn't knackered all day. As the weeks go by they'll sleep longer and longer and especially as they can get out and and about they get worn out etc. For wearing her out - if you practice some training with her eg simple clicker games for a piece of her food it'll use up loads of energy. My guy is wiped out after going to training class - he'll sleep for HOURS after a one hour class.

Zulu · 14-03-2011 12:01pm

So a little update for those who are in the same boat (or thinking of getting into the same boat). Chloe out lab is now 13 weeks old.

Firstly, litterally, the next night after my last post, she stopped getting up in the middle of the night, and only barked at 5:30/6 when she was awake for the day. I think me getting up to let her out to toilet wasn't helping. I think I was disturbing her sleep.

She is now sleeping through the night (from 10pm to 6:30am). She settles down around 8/9pm cosying up at our feet & we can't keep her up longer (but thats not a problem for us).

We sorted out the barking when she wakes up aswell. I didn't resort to the collar, but did employ a water squirter. She quickly learned that bark="shuuushhh" & squirt. She whines now when she wakes up & I go down, let her out to toilet, and give her breakfast.

She's taken very very well to our puppy classes; she loves them.

It's not all without problems though. And any advice from the experienced would be greatfully appricated. We've started taking her for short (15/20mins tops) walks. We do a small lap around the block. 2 routes. At the start, she like the walk (but not traffic). But now, she won't walk outside.

I think this is my fault as I've been trying to get her to walk to heal. I think I've been correcting her, when I should have been encouraging her just to enjoy the walk experience. I'll try a long loose lead & loads of her dinner as treats this evening. I think I need to make the walk a really REALLY enjoyable experience before making her walk by my side.

andreac · 14-03-2011 1:13pm

Zulu, i dont mean to sound bad, but you expecting far far too much from this puppy at this age, shes only 13 weeks so still very much a baby. 20 minute walk is a little too much in my opinion, 10 mins would be enough at 13 weeks.

Just bring the pup out and let her sniff, walk at her own pace, play with a toy and say hi to everyone she meets.
Expecting her to walk to heel at 13 weeks is far too much, they are just abput learning to walk with a collar and lead at this stage and enjoying meeting people and getting used to smells, surroundings, sights etc so please go easy on this puppy, you are trying far too hard and the poor pup is not ready for all this yet.

Zulu · 14-03-2011 2:09pm

Yea you're right. The first few walks were going well so i got carried away I suppose. It's entirly my own fault. I'll leave her at her own pace for the next while.

In terms of distance, I'd heard that 5mins per month old was a good rule of thumb. The 20mins walk is taking her stops when cars pass & sniffing pillars/trees into account.

I think for the next while it'll be more 15mins exploring-on-the-lead as opposed to walking.

tk123 · 14-03-2011 2:45pm

Zulu wrote: »

I'll try a long loose lead & loads of her dinner as treats this evening.

Dindins is fine for around the house but when you're out and about you want the jackpot/highvalue treats - sliced up hotdogs/ham/Aldi round chicken slices (my guy loves this lol) etc. Even put some of the her puppy nuts in with the sliced up hotdogs and leave them to soak up the smell/taste. Every few steps give her a treat and lots of praise. As andreac says don't be expecting too much too soon - I know I said that myself before. You're expecting her to act like a grown dog - not that mad puppy that she is! She's still a baby so let her be one and enjoy it - my guy is still mad at times but you can see the difference in him at 20 months. How are you training her to walk to heel - please say you're not yanking the lead back everytime it gets tight?

Zulu · 14-03-2011 3:09pm

I wasn't "yanking" but I had a short lead held firm by my side. On end of the lead in my left hand, and across my body, into my right hand, which was kept rigid by my hip.

I'm regretting it now. Hopefully, I haven't ruined walking for the poor girl.

tk123 · 14-03-2011 5:25pm

Sorry - it's just that you see so many people yanking puppies like that

Don't feel too bad - you've spotted the prob so you just need to work on it - maybe bring a toy as well! My guy doesn't want his own toys when we go for a walk thou lol - just everyone elses so they might give him a game of chasing! :pac: Anyhoos retrievers and labs are gun dogs - they love to walk with their head in the grass picking up a scent so I tend to let my guy have a wander on the lead - as long as it's loose i'm happy. If we're walking out on the footpath then I'll keep him by my side. He had a sensible harness that attaches at the front and I find it very good - I can move the lead so that just the clip on the lead that attaches to the harness moves and he'll change direction etc. My guy was a little nervous at first too when we started taking him out but once he knew the way to the park he started to love his walks!

Zulu · 14-03-2011 8:44pm

Once again, as soon as I post!!! Brought her to the beach today after work - she loved it! Needed ham to get her from the hall to the car, but there was no hassle at the beach (except after meeting one overly aggressive dog).
Sweet.

Zulu · 18-05-2011 10:52am

Well, it's been awhile but things have been great.
Here are two pics of Chloe. One's from when we got her, and the other is from a few weeks ago. She's 5 months now. So a few questions...

When i get home, she humps my leg. Now I've been told two things about this. The vet's assistant at the puppy solicitation classes said it was hormonal, & she's grow out of it. I don't think she will. I've read elsewhere that it's a dominance thing.

When she does it, i knock her off with a kind of flick my leg & I ignore her. This stops her (ie, she doesn't persist). Am I handling this correctly? One thing to note, sometimes (it's happened maybe twice) she appears to get "locked" into the humping, so when I've flicked her off my leg, she's still humping (thin air) and trying to walk around in a circle. When this happened, I tapped her on her hind leg with a "chloe!" which snapped her out of it. Whats going on there?!?

Other than that, she's great.

Bold, but in a good chancing-her-arm kind of way.

oh the other thing I wanted to ask, she's started to shed. REALLY shed. Like if I tug her hair I'll be left with a clump! No biggie, as I know labs shed, and I'm sure it just her adult coat coming through, but the brush we have it utter crap. I find the best way to groom her is to stroke her with a wet hand, but there must be something better. Any recommendations on products?

Thanks folks.

Zulu · 18-05-2011 11:56am

one other thing I meant to mention/ask...

I play wrestling with her. I let her mouth (I won't say bite, because she never hurts) my hands, and we have good fun. Now she tries to play the same game with my wife - who's not ok with it & is worried she'll do it with our little nephews/nieces (which she hasn't done). Naturally my wife would be happier if she didn't do this at all, which to me means that I'd need to cut it out altogether.
My concern is (and why I haven't done it to date) that this is one of our bonding things, & I know she loves it. Frankly I don't want to loose this interaction with her. I need to just stop this altogether, don't I?

(I'm hoping someone will present a semi-believable argument as to why I don't need to stop)

The Sweeper · 18-05-2011 12:01pm

Buy a furminator for the brushing.

With the humping, it's an undesirable behaviour so you correct it as you would other undesirable behaviours. Stop the dog doing the behaviour and correct with a firm, sharp noise - like a handclap and a NO, or 'leave it' if you're using that successfully on other behaviours.

Once you have her neutered this may also reduce the behaviour, but some dogs are humpers. (Mine is.) Always correct the behaviour - humping dogs can be extremely irritating to other dogs in a social setting. If you see your dog mount another, it's good to have practiced a 'stop' command, like no or leave it, and bring it into play in this situation. Other people can get really quite defensive if your dog starts to hump theirs. My dog is a humper - the bloody second he gets a chance off he goes. He doesn't do it to people but does it to other dogs.

I always immediately correct and step in and I'll pull him off the other dog by the collar if I have to. I normally don't have to because as soon as he tries to mount I approach him and he just stops. The behaviour decreases the more it's corrected - plus if it's a puppy playdate, when other people see you correcting the behaviour they relax a bit too. I can go off and make coffee and I'll hear the visitor going 'Gus! No! Get down!" and I know they're comfortable correcting my dog the precise way they've seen me do it. (As opposed to kicking him in the arse and dragging their dog out of the house shouting that mine is some sort of sex pest.)

The Sweeper · 18-05-2011 12:06pm

Zulu wrote: »

one other thing I meant to mention/ask...

I play wrestling with her. I let her mouth (I won't say bite, because she never hurts) my hands, and we have good fun. Now she tries to play the same game with my wife - who's not ok with it & is worried she'll do it with our little nephews/nieces (which she hasn't done). Naturally my wife would be happier if she didn't do this at all, which to me means that I'd need to cut it out altogether.
My concern is (and why I haven't done it to date) that this is one of our bonding things, & I know she loves it. Frankly I don't want to loose this interaction with her. I need to just stop this altogether, don't I?

(I'm hoping someone will present a semi-believable argument as to why I don't need to stop)

Stop it. Stop it right away.

The best piece of advice I ever got about my own dog came from someone who bred boxers for like, decades. She never, ever rough-housed a dog until it passed 18 months of age. She maintained that if you never rough-house play with a pup, the pup never becomes overexcited and all play remains on your terms. The dog develops an 'off' switch, because 'off' is its normal behavioural pattern. This way, once the dog hits 18 months, you can then start rough-housing as part of play and the second you order a stop to the game - well, that return to order is all the dog ever knew, so it stops and you remain in control.

Feel free to play tug with a rope with her as a reward during training, but it would be my opinon that you should absolutely never let your dog mouth you, and especially not a young dog.

Labrador puppy diaries - our first days of dog ownership

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