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Being forced to take up unpaid internship on jobsbridge scheme

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    #32
    starlit
    Registered Users Posts: 12,334 ✭✭✭✭starlit


    Trhiggy83 wrote: »
    Sorry your right, I didnt realise the 50 euro topup was paid by the social welfare Dept. So its free labour for the employer, this system is wide open for abuse and has been abused by employers. I cant find an engineering job, yet if i look on the jobbridge website there are hundreds of jobs to choose from. Someone please tell me these positions are not hindering my chances of gaining fulltime employment.

    I was shocked to see the amount of jobs available, it has to be hindering employment growth.

    You cant blame the employers though as it makes economic sense and if i was running a business i definately would have an intern working for me.

    That's what I gather ya. Its only a top up from SW. Engineering is difficult to get into here in Ireland without sufficient experience. Paid internships or going abroad be your best bet.

    I definitely agree with you I think the jobs on jobbridge are hampering the employment growth if not stopping it! Job blocker it is then!?


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    #33
    dvpower
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,183 ✭✭✭dvpower


    Trhiggy83 wrote: »
    Sorry your right, I didnt realise the 50 euro topup was paid by the social welfare Dept. So its free labour for the employer, this system is wide open for abuse and has been abused by employers. I cant find an engineering job, yet if i look on the jobbridge website there are hundreds of jobs to choose from. Someone please tell me these positions are not hindering my chances of gaining fulltime employment.

    I was shocked to see the amount of jobs available, it has to be hindering employment growth.

    You cant blame the employers though as it makes economic sense and if i was running a business i definately would have an intern working for me.
    If the internship is a good quality one then it isn't free labour. The company I work for has taken on interns (not through this scheme) and has invested a lot of time of experienced people in planning the internship and mentoring the interns.

    There are a lot of examples of internships on the government scheme that don't look like real internships at all, but a good one can be a reasonable path to employment.


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    #34
    StillWaters
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,799 ✭✭✭StillWaters


    DSP/SW have become quite strict on activation. It's doubtful she can do another course so soon after the other one. There simply aren't enough training places to allow people to do multiple ones in the way they used to. If your friend is dead set against an internship, would she do a CE scheme. She should find one that would match her skills well. However there is no chance of a job from a CE scheme as they are community based, but it will get her experience in the legal field.

    If your friend refuses activation, there is every possibility her payment is docked. It won't be stopped completely, and I think the reduction lasts for 8 weeks.


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    #35
    cabbage crotch
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17 ✭cabbage crotch


    To be fair you weren't there OP so you don't know the specifics of what was said though there are a lot of 'mays' and 'mights' in your original post. It could be that the advisor was trying to offer a sharp nudge to your friend (who by your own admission is an excellent candidate in terms of experience and education) to get work by suggesting that their benefits may be cut if they didn't either get a job or get an internship. Most of us know how difficult it is to get work even with good experience etc., but at the same time resources only stretch so far and offering course after course to someone who is already a good candidate isn't the best use of resources is it? Internships in the Irish sense aren't my idea of a good time either, but if they offer experience relevant to the course your friend did with FAS then why would she refuse it?

    Also the word of one advisor shouldn't be taken as truth. I stay away from FAS for a reason when unemployed having had one encounter too many with the helpful disposition of FAS and its attempts to 'help' jobseekers.


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    #36
    average_runner
    Registered Users Posts: 12,845 ✭✭✭✭average_runner


    TomRooney wrote: »

    I detected a sense of arrogance in the post that this comment was in reply to so in my opinion it was fitting.


    A friend of mine got a full time job out the internship. Suppose it depends how much your friend wants a job. Because if they do, they try aanything.


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    #37
    davo10
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,926 ✭✭✭davo10


    OP the two issues you have, the threat of payment being stopped and the potential for employer to make money without paying your friend. I do not know about the first issue but I can tell you about my experience with the second.

    After Christmas last year I had a request from a person doing a course to come to my business for an internship, like your friend she had to find one or she would be off the course and our of pocket, so I agreed to take her on. It was a complete and utter disaster, not only did she lose us money but she disrupted and upset the other staff, eventually I had to ask her to leave after two months.

    She would turn up late/ leave early/ not turn up at all, would not follow what other staff were showing her to do even though they were slowing their duties to explain things to her, she bitched constantly about me and the all members of staff to others, so that everyone in the whole place got her ire.

    After 2 months, she still had not learned even the basics of the job despite all our best efforts due to complete lack of interest. She was supposed to be highly trained on computers but when we showed her our software, she was completely nonplussed by it even though the girl currently doing administrative work couldn't turn a computer on when she started and within a couple of weeks she looked as if she had written the software programme.

    So before you get in your high horse about employers "making" money off cheap labour, sometimes these interns actually cost the employer in terms of time, resources and money.

    By the way, if she was any good, I would have at a minimum employed her on a full wage for the summer to cover staff holidays and she would have been first in line if any staff moved on.


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    #38
    TomRooney
    Registered Users Posts: 458 ✭✭TomRooney


    davo10 wrote: »
    OP the two issues you have, the threat of payment being stopped and the potential for employer to make money without paying your friend. I do not know about the first issue but I can tell you about my experience with the second.

    After Christmas last year I had a request from a person doing a course to come to my business for an internship, like your friend she had to find one or she would be off the course and our of pocket, so I agreed to take her on. It was a complete and utter disaster, not only did she lose us money but she disrupted and upset the other staff, eventually I had to ask her to leave after two months.

    She would turn up late/ leave early/ not turn up at all, would not follow what other staff were showing her to do even though they were slowing their duties to explain things to her, she bitched constantly about me and the all members of staff to others, so that everyone in the whole place got her ire.

    After 2 months, she still had not learned even the basics of the job despite all our best efforts due to complete lack of interest. She was supposed to be highly trained on computers but when we showed her our software, she was completely nonplussed by it even though the girl currently doing administrative work couldn't turn a computer on when she started and within a couple of weeks she looked as if she had written the software programme.

    So before you get in your high horse about employers "making" money off cheap labour, sometimes these interns actually cost the employer in terms of time, resources and money.

    By the way, if she was any good, I would have at a minimum employed her on a full wage for the summer to cover staff holidays and she would have been first in line if any staff moved on.

    By all accounts that would be the exception rather than the rule.
    I sense an agenda on this subject here, some mods and posters seem to get a little bit overly defensive when this scammish scheme is questioned.
    Makes one wonder if the "opinions" being posted here are impartial or pushing an agenda.


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    #39
    Mrs OBumble
    Registered Users Posts: 25,671 ✭✭✭✭Mrs OBumble


    TomRooney wrote: »
    I am the OP by the way.

    ...


    P.S. Of course there is some expectation that in internship should or could turn into a full time job!


    Sorry, missed that you are the OP. You should still take your boiling bloody to your TD - sharing it here does nothing to encourage the politicians to change the poorly-thought-through aspects of the scheme.

    The expectation is that participating in an internship will help the worker secure a job. The rules that Jobridge was set with under explicitly say that there is no expectation that the internship position will turn into a paying job (full time or part time). I agree that it's a dumb rule. But it is the rule and raging about it here is a waste of keystrokes.

    Also, you say your friend has a Masters. Frankly I think she's had plenty of government funded education, there are plenty of people who have had far less opportunities who need FAS courses.


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    #40
    homeless student
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,020 ✭✭✭homeless student


    she should tell them to stick their jobsbridge slave labour and leave for another country, thats what id do.


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    #41
    TomRooney
    Registered Users Posts: 458 ✭✭TomRooney


    Mrs OBumble wrote: »
    Sorry, missed that you are the OP. You should still take your boiling bloody to your TD - sharing it here does nothing to encourage the politicians to change the poorly-thought-through aspects of the scheme.

    The expectation is that participating in an internship will help the worker secure a job. The rules that Jobridge was set with under explicitly say that there is no expectation that the internship position will turn into a paying job (full time or part time). I agree that it's a dumb rule. But it is the rule and raging about it here is a waste of keystrokes.

    Also, you say your friend has a Masters. Frankly I think she's had plenty of government funded education, there are plenty of people who have had far less opportunities who need FAS courses.

    The Irish government didn't pay for her masters degree, she payed for it herself...outside Ireland.
    Again Mrs Bumble you make a half cocked comment without knowing the facts.
    What's with the caustic attitude?


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    #42
    davo10
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,926 ✭✭✭davo10


    TomRooney wrote: »

    By all accounts that would be the exception rather than the rule.
    I sense an agenda on this subject here, some mods and posters seem to get a little bit overly defensive when this scammish scheme is questioned.
    Makes one wonder if the "opinions" being posted here are impartial or pushing an agenda.

    What proof have you that my experience is the exception?

    I have no knowledge whatsoever about job bridge and I am no supporter of Government policies so no agenda. I just do not agree with you that all employers take advantage of the situation and you do not know if your girlfriends internship provider would. Your other half may get valuable practical experience or she can sit on her ass collecting the dole. Lots of people do free internships as part if their training/tuition.


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    #43
    whatnext
    Registered Users Posts: 915 ✭✭✭whatnext


    We have used the scheme and have taken on two people. These are people that we would not have employed without the scheme.

    The simple reality is that margins are so tight the six months that it takes to get some on up to speed before they can get close to covering their costs is too big an ask for us.

    Now there are two very bright and ambitious individuals working along side me that I am proud to say I trained. They got a sniff of what was potentially there for them and grabbed it with both hands.

    One thing I will say about the scheme is it gave me / the company a chance to really train them as we didn't have to generate an immediate return on them. They spent two hours a day uninterrupted with different members of staff, even the financial controller got involved explaining how the company makes money, but also how much it really costs to make that money. I invested a lot of time in them but in return they helped me out with some of my more time demanding tasks, so I got the time back.

    They are no longer interns they are colleagues paying taxes like me, their development has been phenomenal. They are probably not quite covering their costs yet, but that is only a matter of time.

    BUT:
    I have to say we were lucky, the amount of people I interviewed that I felt were almost unemployable was unbelievable. I've had every thing from no shows for interview, to two instances of chewing gum in an interview (yes one blew a bubble), a wannabe gangsta, and some that were just not interested.


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    #44
    Mrs OBumble
    Registered Users Posts: 25,671 ✭✭✭✭Mrs OBumble


    TomRooney wrote: »
    The Irish government didn't pay for her masters degree, she payed for it herself...outside Ireland.
    Again Mrs Bumble you make a half cocked comment without knowing the facts.
    What's with the caustic attitude?

    This is Work and Jobs. Expect to get advice / discussion that is work focussed. Someone with a Masters does not need a string of FAS courses, it's simply a waste of resources.


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    #45
    Mr. Loverman
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,001 ✭✭✭Mr. Loverman


    Is emigration an option for her?

    There are loads of jobs in London, etc.

    Personally I could not sit around in Ireland waiting for the economy to improve (it's probably going to get worse) getting depressed. Better to take control of your life and experience a new culture while earning money and rebuilding your finances and self-esteem.


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    #46
    TomRooney
    Registered Users Posts: 458 ✭✭TomRooney


    davo10 wrote: »
    What proof have you that my experience is the exception?

    I have no knowledge whatsoever about job bridge and I am no supporter of Government policies so no agenda. I just do not agree with you that all employers take advantage of the situation and you do not know if your girlfriends internship provider would. Your other half may get valuable practical experience or she can sit on her ass collecting the dole. Lots of people do free internships as part if their training/tuition.

    I never said all employers take advantage, why do you feel you have to invent story's to make a point?

    She's not my girlfriend.

    She has already done an internship which brought her nothing.

    The vast majority of people I have come across who have done these tax payer funded internships have not gotten any jobs or valuable experience from them.

    You appear to have a serious attitude problem.


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    #47
    TomRooney
    Registered Users Posts: 458 ✭✭TomRooney


    Mrs OBumble wrote: »
    This is Work and Jobs. Expect to get advice / discussion that is work focussed. Someone with a Masters does not need a string of FAS courses, it's simply a waste of resources.

    Well apparently they do, I know many people with Master degrees and Honours degrees who can not find work in the area they studied., hence the reason they need to get trained in a different area.

    You seem to think your opinion counts as fact, you come across quite hostile and seem to have no understanding of the genuine challenges there are out there when it comes to finding work.
    I suppose the almost 500,000 people on the dole are just lazy, yeah?


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    #48
    TomRooney
    Registered Users Posts: 458 ✭✭TomRooney


    Mr. Loverman wrote: »
    Is emigration an option for her?

    There are loads of jobs in London, etc.

    Personally I could not sit around in Ireland waiting for the economy to improve (it's probably going to get worse) getting depressed. Better to take control of your life and experience a new culture while earning money and rebuilding your finances and self-esteem.

    That might be the only option....as sad and disastrous as it is, emigration may be the only option.


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    #49
    homeless student
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,020 ✭✭✭homeless student


    TomRooney wrote: »
    That might be the only option....as sad and disastrous as it is, emigration may be the only option.

    could be the best thing she ever does;)


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    #50
    Mr. Loverman
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,001 ✭✭✭Mr. Loverman


    homeless student wrote: »
    could be the best thing she ever does;)

    Yep, everyone I know who has emigrated (nearly everyone I grew up with or was friends with in college) is happy with their decision. None of them have returned to Ireland, except for holidays, etc.


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    #51
    StillWaters
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,799 ✭✭✭StillWaters


    TomRooney wrote: »
    That might be the only option....as sad and disastrous as it is, emigration may be the only option.
    Emigration does not have to be sad and disastrous. It can be a hugely positive experience. I speak from my own experience as well as those much younger than me who are in this wave.

    I agree with others on here tbh, if you friend has a Masters, an internship and a FAS course under her belt and is still job hunting, emigration will most likely open up lots of opportunities, both professional and life.


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    #52
    davo10
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,926 ✭✭✭davo10


    TomRooney wrote: »

    I never said all employers take advantage, why do you feel you have to invent story's to make a point?

    She has already done an internship which brought her nothing.

    The vast majority of people I have come across who have done these tax payer funded internships have not gotten any jobs or valuable experience from them.

    You appear to have a serious attitude problem.

    Why are you assuming then that in her next internship, the owner will take advantage of her to make money without paying her?

    The lack of jobs is not the fault of the company nor the taxpayer, it's due to the state of not just our economy but a worldwide problem.

    As mrs o'bumble said, why should the tax payer have to pay for her internship, with a masters, if she has no commitments what is she waiting for?

    I also think we the taxpayers should get some benefit for funding her fas course and the internship, if that benefit is that the intern helps the company to increase profit so they can employ someone, possibly your friend and reduce the social welfare burden on the taxpayer, that'll do for me.

    No attitude, just apathy, someone is getting something for nothing (practicle experience in an industry relavant to the course done and the possibility of a job) but there is still room for complaint.


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    #53
    TomRooney
    Registered Users Posts: 458 ✭✭TomRooney


    davo10 wrote: »
    Why are you assuming then that in her next internship, the owner will take advantage of her to make money without paying her?

    Because that has been the experience herself and almost all her fellow students have had, bar 1. Hence it is a fair assumption.
    The lack of jobs is not the fault of the company nor the taxpayer, it's due to the state of not just our economy but a worldwide problem.

    I'm afraid it's not quite that simple, the lack of jobs and economic activity is directly related to the mismanagement and purposeful over heating of our economy, this was done by the gombeens in Leinster house, the same gombeens that dreamt up this hair brained scheme to get tax payers to pay for the provision of free labour to privately held companies.
    As mrs o'bumble said, why should the tax payer have to pay for her internship, with a masters, if she has no commitments what is she waiting for?

    They shouldn't, the employer should.
    I also think we the taxpayers should get some benefit for funding her fas course and the internship, if that benefit is that the intern helps the company to increase profit so they can employ someone, possibly your friend and reduce the social welfare burden on the taxpayer, that'll do for me.

    Why should the tax payer fund an internship for a privately held company?
    Do you realise how little logic you're displaying not to mention how much you're contradicting yourself?
    No attitude, just apathy, someone is getting something for nothing (practicle experience in an industry relevant to the course done and the possibility of a job) but there is still room for complaint.

    The only persons getting something for nothing are the unscrupulous employers who exploit workers without ever having an intention of employing them...this is criminal and the perpetrators of such acts should spend a long time in jail if found to be abusing the system.

    I have made my position clear on this subject but you seem to be intentionally ignoring what I have said. I have no issue with genuine internships, I think they can be very beneficial.
    But the jobsbridge scheme is a hair brained sham and to threaten to cut off a persons only means of subsistence in an attemp to bully them into doing somethign they may not want to do is pathetic and just highlights the ineptitude that exists throughout this system.


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    #54
    flutered
    Registered Users Posts: 6,668 ✭✭✭flutered


    back in the day one was told go on a fas scheme or else, nothing new here.


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    #55
    TomRooney
    Registered Users Posts: 458 ✭✭TomRooney


    flutered wrote: »
    back in the day one was told go on a fas scheme or else, nothing new here.

    There's nothing wrong with a FAS scheme or being told to go on one.
    The issue is apparently you can be forced to provide free labour to a private employer through way of jobsbridge.
    You might have missed that detail.


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    #56
    donfanzu
    Registered Users Posts: 30 ✭donfanzu


    I'm currently on a job bridge scheme and I can't recommend it enough (if the finances are manageable). I've learned loads that was never even touched on in college and I don't think I'm being exploited at all. I feel much more confident in securing a job in my field even if the host origination decides against keeping me on. There's worse things your friend could be doing with her time than the scheme, although its entirely voluntary in fact there's big competition for places.


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    #57
    Stheno
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 51,687 Mod ✭✭✭✭Stheno


    StillWaters wrote: »
    Emigration does not have to be sad and disastrous. It can be a hugely positive experience. I speak from my own experience as well as those much younger than me who are in this wave.

    I agree with others on here tbh, if you friend has a Masters, an internship and a FAS course under her belt and is still job hunting, emigration will most likely open up lots of opportunities, both professional and life.

    Having worked abroad in any professional field is also considered a huge bonus for employers if people then return to Ireland with international experience.


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    #58
    bigslick
    Registered Users Posts: 992 ✭✭✭bigslick


    I am a product of an internship that I underwent (and completed) before this scheme even went live, where I was told (possibly incorrectly) by the Social Welfare office that if I took ANY sort of work paid or unpaid I would be unable to claim benefit or allowance.

    So cue me working in that internship for 9 months, without receiving a penny? Did I hate the company for giving me nothing, and earning money off my back? Not one bit. They gave me so much in terms of education, development, and new friends. I am now working for a global multinational in a senior role :D. Gave me the experience I needed when no company had openings.

    Is it open to abuse by companies, of course. But my department currently has 2 Job bridge individuals working for us, and we are making sure they get out as much as they put in, and in addition are trying to make room for them down the line.

    Life is about risks. I say she should go for an internship that relates to her area of expertise. If she gains nothing else she will gain more connections, which in todays workplace is probably the most important thing.


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    #59
    flutered
    Registered Users Posts: 6,668 ✭✭✭flutered


    TomRooney wrote: »
    There's nothing wrong with a FAS scheme or being told to go on one.
    The issue is apparently you can be forced to provide free labour to a private employer through way of jobsbridge.
    You might have missed that detail.

    the rc church and the gaa are not private employers, add on the co council, clearing graveyards, also roadsides, missed nothing, been there done that, but no t-shirts back then, had to bring ones own shovel etc, also no bright warm clothes supplyed unlike today.


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    #60
    Lyaiera
    Registered Users Posts: 5,818 ✭✭✭Lyaiera


    If you do take a Jobsbridge position and they don't give you work in the area they claimed to what is the recourse to that? Say you worked in a role demanding more professionally and in the same area, but the jobsbridge people can't provide you with anything near that what can you do?


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    #61
    donfanzu
    Registered Users Posts: 30 ✭donfanzu


    Lyaiera wrote: »
    If you do take a Jobsbridge position and they don't give you work in the area they claimed to what is the recourse to that? Say you worked in a role demanding more professionally and in the same area, but the jobsbridge people can't provide you with anything near that what can you do?

    You quit! Simples..


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