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Which countries were sympathetic to the Provisional IRA?

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  • 26-11-2014 6:00am
    #1
    William F
    Closed Accounts Posts: 473 ✭✭


    Which countries were sympathetic to the Provisional IRA?

    I read some books which indicate that the Provos received arms and training from the Libyans.

    What I want to know was this the only case. I heard the ANC and PLO also provided training but I couldn't find a source for this.


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    #2
    Skrynesaver
    Registered Users Posts: 1,109 ✭✭✭Skrynesaver


    I think you have the training provision the wrong way round, the IRA provided training to the ANC (well the MK), Kaderr Asmal documented it in his autobiography. Curiously there South African goverrnment facilitated arms imports for combined loyalist groups aided by the British agent Brian Nelson</digression>.

    The PLO aledgedly offered weapons and training, but smuggling weapons out of the region was decided to be too difficult and the offer refused, links with the PLO dried up after the Deparment of Foregin Affairs engaged with the m in the mid '80's according to Tim Pat Coogan.

    My understanding is that mostly the arms were purchased with funds raised through Noraid or armed robbery.


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    #3
    Peregrinus
    Registered Users Posts: 26,056 ✭✭✭✭Peregrinus


    The ANC and the PLO aren't really "countries".

    I think the Iranian government provided some moral support and sympathy, and there were claims of more material forms of support in the 1990s. The US government was never sympathetic to the IRA, but they were sometimes slower to stand against it than the UK and Irish governments would have wished, because of domestic political considerations.


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    #4
    Arsemageddon
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,129 ✭✭✭Arsemageddon


    I don't think you can say that many countries supported the IRA, it's more the case that different political factions or groups supported the IRA. For example, much of the Provos weapons came from the US, but the US government were not supporters.

    The Provo's trained Umkhonto we Swize (MK), the armed wing of the ANC in bomb making techniques. Two Soiuth Africans were trained in Ireland prior to the bombing of the Sasol oil refinery in 1980.

    Loyalist paramilitaries were caught in a sting operation in the late 80's exchanging missile parts made by Shorts (later Bombardier) in Belfast and weapons stolen from British Army bases for weapons. A loyalist paramilitary, a south African diplomat and an American arms dealer were arrested in Paris setting up a deal.

    The official IRA received weapons from the Soviet Union in the early 1970's according to Vasili Mitrokhin, a KGB defector. They were also allegedly involved in the North Korean 'superdollar' counterfeiting operation.


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    #5
    Jolly Red Giant
    Registered Users Posts: 3,434 ✭✭✭Jolly Red Giant


    Libya

    with a word of caution about the pro-Brit propaganda

    http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-northern-ireland-12539372


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    #6
    ChicagoJoe
    Registered Users Posts: 372 ✭✭ChicagoJoe


    Peregrinus wrote: »
    The ANC and the PLO aren't really "countries".

    I think the Iranian government provided some moral support and sympathy, and there were claims of more material forms of support in the 1990s. The US government was never sympathetic to the IRA, but they were sometimes slower to stand against it than the UK and Irish governments would have wished, because of domestic political considerations.
    They got plenty of support in the Irish bars in Chicago, New York, Boston :) They also interacted with the Basque ETA movement.


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    #7
    Manach
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 9,664 Mod ✭✭✭✭Manach


    Funding is an important activity for paramilitary organisations, according to texts on such. Various elements of the IRA went through ideological changes but this never seen to prevent them from accepting funds from non- policitially similar sources. Case in point Canaris' Abweher.


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    #8
    ChicagoJoe
    Registered Users Posts: 372 ✭✭ChicagoJoe


    Manach wrote: »
    Funding is an important activity for paramilitary organisations, according to texts on such. Various elements of the IRA went through ideological changes but this never seen to prevent them from accepting funds from non- policitially similar sources. Case in point Canaris' Abweher.
    The military principle of the enemy of my enemy is my friend. Not just used by the IRA, (the unionists went to the Kaiser looking for guns to oppose Home Rule, so much for their 'loyalty' to Britain). Also America and Britain were quite happy to have Stalin as an allie and he wasn't exactly democratic now was he.

    It would take quite a lot of money to run an unconventional force, I'd imagine that AK47's, semtex, RPG's etc wouldn't come cheap on the international black market.


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    #9
    Peregrinus
    Registered Users Posts: 26,056 ✭✭✭✭Peregrinus


    Manach wrote: »
    Funding is an important activity for paramilitary organisations, according to texts on such. Various elements of the IRA went through ideological changes but this never seen to prevent them from accepting funds from non- policitially similar sources. Case in point Canaris' Abweher.
    Well, in fairness the OP asks about the Provisional IRA, who for obvious reasons never received support from the Abwehr.


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    #10
    DarkyHughes
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,393 ✭✭✭DarkyHughes


    The Irish part of Scotland :pac:

    Am I right in saying the IRA never targeted any places in Wales or Scotland because they considered them "Celtic" countries?


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    #11
    Fratton Fred
    Closed Accounts Posts: 26,567 ✭✭✭✭Fratton Fred


    DarkyHughes wrote: »
    The Irish part of Scotland :pac:

    Am I right in saying the IRA never targeted any places in Wales or Scotland because they considered them "Celtic" countries?

    The Green book specifically banned attacks in "Celtic Countries".


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    #12
    DarkyHughes
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,393 ✭✭✭DarkyHughes


    Fratton Fred wrote: »
    The Green book specifically banned attacks in "Celtic Countries".

    I've never read the whole Green Book just a few bits & pieces . Is there anywhere the whole thing can be read?

    Back on topic I'm not sure if this counts as sympathetic to the IRA but there was protests & demonstrations held in several countries after Bobby Sands died, several cities of France, Italy, Norway (remember the giant tomato thrown at the Queen in Oslo), Russia, Iran, Belgium, several places in the USA, Cuba & some other places.


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    #13
    DarkyHughes
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,393 ✭✭✭DarkyHughes


    Jolly Red Giant wrote: »
    Libya

    with a word of caution about the pro-Brit propaganda

    http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-northern-ireland-12539372

    I wonder does the US administration feel "shame" with their past links to dictators like Saddam & Military Juntas in Latin America? And wasn't Blair's government pretty close to the Brother Leader themselves.


    And I'm all for innocent families being compensated for IRA bombs. But what about families killed by Loyalist death squads alot of whom were armed by people working for the British state.


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    #14
    DarkyHughes
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,393 ✭✭✭DarkyHughes


    And just to add it was more individuals on the left (trade, unionists, Marxists, Leninists, anti-imperialists, Irish-Americans, etc...) than actual countries helping out the IRA. They even English socialists with connections to Ireland at all planting & making bombs for them.


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    #15
    goose2005
    Registered Users Posts: 4,798 ✭✭✭goose2005


    WIkipedia article is pretty good:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Provisional_Irish_Republican_Army_arms_importation


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    #16
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Any country with Terrorists, militias and mafioso


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    #17
    DarkyHughes
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,393 ✭✭✭DarkyHughes


    Bam Bam Mickey wrote: »
    Any country with Terrorists, militias and mafioso

    So basically any country.


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    #18
    Victor
    Registered Users Posts: 78,245 ✭✭✭✭Victor


    William F wrote: »
    Which countries were sympathetic to the Provisional IRA?
    I think that is an over-simplistic question. To get a meaningful answer you need to ask which regimes and organisations were sympathetic or provided support. The common theme was revolutionary socialism.
    Skrynesaver wrote: »
    I think you have the training provision the wrong way round, the IRA provided training to the ANC (well the MK) ... PLO
    I think it would have been a two-way thing. The environment, opponents of, modus operandii, resources and requirements of each organisation were different.
    Skrynesaver wrote: »
    Curiously there South African goverrnment facilitated arms imports for combined loyalist groups aided by the British agent Brian Nelson
    Was this the South African government or South African individuals?
    My understanding is that mostly the arms were purchased with funds raised through Noraid or armed robbery.
    That's an over-simplification, there was racketeering or all kinds, smuggling, kidnapping, fraud, front businesses, property, etc. Allocating any one source of funds to any one expense may be difficult.
    ChicagoJoe wrote: »
    It would take quite a lot of money to run an unconventional force, I'd imagine that AK47's, semtex, RPG's etc wouldn't come cheap on the international black market.
    Why pay black market prices when you can buy from grey market sources? Weapons licensing is often quite liberal outside Europe. Or even get them free.
    Fratton Fred wrote: »
    The Green book specifically banned attacks in "Celtic Countries".
    Yet, the PIRA killed about 1,600 people in Celtic Countries.
    ChicagoJoe wrote: »
    Also America and Britain were quite happy to have Stalin as an allie and he wasn't exactly democratic now was he.
    In fairness, neither did Stalin threaten them quite the way the Nazis did.
    DarkyHughes wrote: »
    I wonder does the US administration feel "shame" with their past links to dictators like Saddam & Military Juntas in Latin America?
    What connections does Barack Obama have with Saddam & Military Juntas in Latin America?
    And wasn't Blair's government pretty close to the Brother Leader themselves.
    I think that's an exaggeration.


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    #19
    Arsemageddon
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,129 ✭✭✭Arsemageddon


    In Sean O'Callaghans autobiography The Informer he claims that IRA received $2m from Syria which was laundered through the PLO, the original source of this money was supposed to be either the Soviet Union or East Germany. He states that this donation was common knowledge with the upper levels of the IRA.


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    #20
    jonniebgood1
    Registered Users Posts: 3,577 ✭✭✭jonniebgood1


    Merry Christmas Tac Foley and Darkyhughes- You are 2 of the 1 kind. Your bickering comments have been deleted.

    If you wish to have a private argument please do it using some other means than this history forum. I didn't issue any infraction to either of you but I would prefer you neither post on this thread in future. The reason for this is you both seem incapable of contributing positively. If you do post on thread I will decide whether or not to retrospectively infract either for deleted infringements of forum charter which both are guilty of.

    Moderator


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