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Difference between CID and Permanent Position --- PRIMARY TEACHING

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  • 17-09-2015 7:59pm
    #1
    Jippo
    Registered Users Posts: 223 ✭✭


    I folks I have been talking to different people lately and for the life of me I can't figure out the difference between a CID and a permanent position in a school.

    1. As I understand, more or less, if you have been employed by a school for three years continuously, the last contract is called a "Contract of Indefinite Duration" and you are permanent (with the Department of Education or the school?)

    2. There are also "permanent positions" advertised and filled by schools --- with the moratorium I understand that these positions typically arise when a "permanent teacher" (or CID teacher?!) leaves.

    What is the difference between 1. and 2.?

    Are CID teachers "panelled" and if you are the last "panelled teacher" in a school and the school loses a teacher that you are the first to go?

    But does not the same thing happen if a school loses a teacher anyway --- that if there are no temporary or CID teachers in the school that the last "permanent teacher" in the school has to move school?

    Do CIDs have to move before "permanent teachers"? My guess would be no because you could have a CID in a school for 10+ years and a permanent teacher in a school for one year. If there is only one CID in the school it is hardly the teacher that is there 10 years who has to move?!

    Is there any difference between them? I am more than a little confused.

    Is there any point in a CID teacher going for a "permanent position"?


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    #2
    Jippo
    Registered Users Posts: 223 ✭✭Jippo


    Anybody?


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    #3
    katydid
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 6,351 ✭✭✭katydid


    Jippo wrote: »
    I folks I have been talking to different people lately and for the life of me I can't figure out the difference between a CID and a permanent position in a school.

    1. As I understand, more or less, if you have been employed by a school for three years continuously, the last contract is called a "Contract of Indefinite Duration" and you are permanent (with the Department of Education or the school?)

    2. There are also "permanent positions" advertised and filled by schools --- with the moratorium I understand that these positions typically arise when a "permanent teacher" (or CID teacher?!) leaves.

    What is the difference between 1. and 2.?

    Are CID teachers "panelled" and if you are the last "panelled teacher" in a school and the school loses a teacher that you are the first to go?

    But does not the same thing happen if a school loses a teacher anyway --- that if there are no temporary or CID teachers in the school that the last "permanent teacher" in the school has to move school?

    Do CIDs have to move before "permanent teachers"? My guess would be no because you could have a CID in a school for 10+ years and a permanent teacher in a school for one year. If there is only one CID in the school it is hardly the teacher that is there 10 years who has to move?!

    Is there any difference between them? I am more than a little confused.

    Is there any point in a CID teacher going for a "permanent position"?

    My understanding is that if you have a CID, your contract can be terminated if for some reason numbers fall, or for some other reason your job is no longer viable. If you are permanent, they can't let you go, they have to transfer you to another school.

    I could be wrong, but that's how I understand it.


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    #4
    strawberrie
    Registered Users Posts: 180 ✭✭strawberrie


    A contract of indefinite duration is only given to someone who is replacing a permanent teacher on staff for a specific reason, these are outlined in the circular and I know they don't include job sharing positions.
    Once they have held that temporary post for a specific length of time (again see circular) they can apply for a CID. They are then treated as a permanent member of the school staff (generally all employed by Dept unless private school ) until the member of staff they are replacing returns. When that staff member returns they then go on the main panel and are entitled to a permanent position that arises in their panel area.
    It will be interesting to see how schools who hope to permanently retain their CID staff manage to do so. I also wonder about the situation where a permanent job arises in a school where there's a CID holding staff member. Can they opt to take it, will it go to the panel without being offered to them if the staff member they are replacing is still on leave.


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    #5
    mirrorwall14
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,751 ✭✭✭mirrorwall14


    katydid wrote: »
    My understanding is that if you have a CID, your contract can be terminated if for some reason numbers fall, or for some other reason your job is no longer viable. If you are permanent, they can't let you go, they have to transfer you to another school.

    I could be wrong, but that's how I understand it.

    I know nothing about primary but this is not true at second level. CID=permanent but a CID may be granted for less than 22hrs. Other than that it's the same rights.

    Edit: actually just checked, here's the circular for both secondary and primary https://www.education.ie/en/Circulars-and-Forms/Active-Circulars/Implementation-of-the-Recommendations-of-the-Expert-Group-on-Fixed-Term-and-Part-Time-Employment-in-Primary-and-Second-Level-Education-in-Ireland-Primary-.pdf


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    #6
    Jippo
    Registered Users Posts: 223 ✭✭Jippo


    mirrorwall14 wrote: »
    I know nothing about primary but this is not true at second level. CID=permanent but a CID may be granted for less than 22hrs. Other than that it's the same rights.

    Edit: actually just checked, here's the circular for both secondary and primary https://www.education.ie/en/Circulars-and-Forms/Active-Circulars/Implementation-of-the-Recommendations-of-the-Expert-Group-on-Fixed-Term-and-Part-Time-Employment-in-Primary-and-Second-Level-Education-in-Ireland-Primary-.pdf

    Thank you this is what I was looking for.


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    #7
    Jippo
    Registered Users Posts: 223 ✭✭Jippo


    Jippo wrote: »
    Thank you this is what I was looking for.

    Is there ANY point in a CID's teacher going to interview for a permanent position?!

    From my reading of the circulars the answer is no --- yet I know somebody going for interview for a permanent position despite the fact that they are CID'd.


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