Should RTE Gold replace RnaG on FM ?

Elmo · 15-09-2014 12:09am

Infoanon wrote: »

Yes but it is reliant on RTE for programming and funding albeit through a share of the licence fee.

TG4 receive an hour a day of programming from RTÉ, mainly Nuacht TG4 and the government gives TG4 a portion of the Licence in the same way the BAI get a portion of the licence fee for the Sound and Vision Fund. Is the BAI reliant on RTÉ?

I think being separate from RTÉ has benefited TG4 and I think that the economy of scale from both Nuacht RTE and Nuacht RnaG would be better serviced under one Irish Language broadcaster, TG4 would lose is Exchequer funding and RTÉ would lose some of the licence fee. I also suggest that the new public service broadcaster takes care of Children's and Film, with €20m going to both Children's and film commissions.

RTÉ TV made up of RTÉ One, RTÉ Gold (TV)/RTÉ Oireachtas, RTÉ News Now
RTÉ Radio made up of RTÉ R1, R1extra, Lyric and Gold

New Broadcaster TV made up of TG4, RTÉjr (in English)/ Irish Film Board Channel (various languages but mainly English), Cula4/TG4+1
New Broadcaster Radio made up of RnaG, RTÉjr/Raidio RíRá

RTÉ2, 2FM, 2XM and Pulse made independent and commercial and later sold.

end of the road · 15-09-2014 12:52am

Elmo wrote: »

RTÉ2, 2FM, 2XM and Pulse made independent and commercial and later sold.

and we can have more american dross on RTE 2 which we get on all the others. 2fm 2xm and pulse can play the same 10 songs with mundane **** talk like all the others (okay 2fm does that all ready) . no these stations shouldn't be sold off. pulses and 2xms format isn't financially viable. RTE as it is is fine. just sort out 2fm, give it a focus and a target audience and match it. all these seperate public service broadcasters your suggesting are in my opinion pointless and complicating things unnecessarily and will probably cost more. if TG4 and rira ever wish to merge with RTE i'm sure that could happen but as far as i know they don't

Elmo · 15-09-2014 11:43am

end of the road wrote: »

and we can have more american dross on RTE 2 which we get on all the others. 2fm 2xm and pulse can play the same 10 songs with mundane **** talk like all the others (okay 2fm does that all ready) . no these stations shouldn't be sold off. pulses and 2xms format isn't financially viable. RTE as it is is fine. just sort out 2fm, give it a focus and a target audience and match it. all these seperate public service broadcasters your suggesting are in my opinion pointless and complicating things unnecessarily and will probably cost more. if TG4 and rira ever wish to merge with RTE i'm sure that could happen but as far as i know they don't

The broadcast licence would reflect RTÉ2's, 2fm, 2XM and Pulse's current output. RTÉ2's licence would insure that TRTÉ would continue on RTÉ2 from 7 to 5:30 each day (they drop RTÉjr). 2FM has to support the alternative sister digital services 2xm and Pulse. Both are too commercial within RTÉ. Allow RTÉ2 and 2fm the same advertising minutes as commercial broadcasters.

I have worked it out it wouldn't cost any more it would cost less. TG4 as I said would lose their exchequer funding, replaced by the licence fee with more money for Children's programming and Film.

Economies of Scale for RnaG/TG4 and Cula4/RTÉjr
With TG4 and RTÉ TV continuing to support each other via News and Current Affairs and some programming commitments e.g. many of TG4 docs could appear on RTÉ Gold TV.

Infoanon · 15-09-2014 12:13pm

Elmo wrote: »

I have worked it out it wouldn't cost any more it would cost less. TG4 as I said would lose their exchequer funding, replaced by the licence fee with more money for Children's programming and Film. .

I don't see how you could work out that it would be cheaper.

As it is RnaG costs circa €10m with no income, it would lose all the economies of scale if it moved from RTE - studios/transmission/obs etc.

The notion of a RTE Gold is questionable - RTE does not have the library that BBC or ITV have, while the notion of TnaG providing programmes is commercially unviable.

The removal of these services from RTE would, leave RTE with a financial hole to fill and thats before adding the additional costs of 'new' services.

Anyhow this is way off the thread - as I said in an earlier thread RnaG will not be replaced by any other service on FM for a very long time.

Elmo · 15-09-2014 1:13pm

Infoanon wrote: »

I don't see how you could work out that it would be cheaper.

As it is RnaG costs circa €10m with no income, it would lose all the economies of scale if it moved from RTE - studios/transmission/obs etc.

The notion of a RTE Gold is questionable - RTE does not have the library that BBC or ITV have, while the notion of TnaG providing programmes is commercially unviable.

The removal of these services from RTE would, leave RTE with a financial hole to fill and thats before adding the additional costs of 'new' services.

Anyhow this is way off the thread - as I said in an earlier thread RnaG will not be replaced by any other service on FM for a very long time.

I can't see RnaG moving off FM, its more a question of how digital radio services are developed. It is good to see RTÉ Gold develop but can it carry advertising and would it be worth selling ads on the service?

Under my plan RnaG would retain all of their current studios and ob units.

RTÉ Gold (Replaces RTÉ 1+1)
- a composite of RTÉ/TG4/BAI archive (RTÉ Archive available to them)
- bought in archived/documentary series (Already available to them)
- repeats of RTÉ ONE Docs series (Already available to them)
- Classic Film (Already available to them)
- 7pm to 2am, RTÉ Oireachtas would timeshare with it.

In the same way that RTÉ currently provide TG4 with Leargas for example TG4 would provide the new RTÉ with an hour of programming for an hour of programming English language from RTÉ (with some sharing of news footage).

TG4 would get 42.5% of the licence fee with RTÉ getting 42.5% of the licence fee (remainder BAI and NSOs). Crossover promotion and sales of programming would help TG4 particularly in Children's programming and Film (TG4 would not be Irish Language in these areas).

Anyway its just a suggestion, it won't happen largely because the consultants would have to get at least €100m and at least 10 years of discussions. Look how long it took RTÉ RnaG/RTÉ Nuacht to provide an online news service!

end of the road · 15-09-2014 1:31pm

Elmo wrote: »

I can't see RnaG moving off FM, its more a question of how digital radio services are developed. It is good to see RTÉ Gold develop but can it carry advertising and would it be worth selling ads on the service?

Under my plan RnaG would retain all of their current studios and ob units.

RTÉ Gold (Replaces RTÉ 1+1)
- a composite of RTÉ/TG4/BAI archive (RTÉ Archive available to them)
- bought in archived/documentary series (Already available to them)
- repeats of RTÉ ONE Docs series (Already available to them)
- Classic Film (Already available to them)
- 7pm to 2am, RTÉ Oireachtas would timeshare with it.

In the same way that RTÉ currently provide TG4 with Leargas for example TG4 would provide the new RTÉ with an hour of programming for an hour of programming English language from RTÉ (with some sharing of news footage).

TG4 would get 42.5% of the licence fee with RTÉ getting 42.5% of the licence fee (remainder BAI and NSOs). Crossover promotion and sales of programming would help TG4 particularly in Children's programming and Film (TG4 would not be Irish Language in these areas).

Anyway its just a suggestion, it won't happen largely because the consultants would have to get at least €100m and at least 10 years of discussions. Look how long it took RTÉ RnaG/RTÉ Nuacht to provide an online news service!

it won't happen because its unnecessary. thats the only reason. leaving things as they are and developing those services means a better more wider service for all RTES audiences.

Elmo · 15-09-2014 1:48pm

end of the road wrote: »

it won't happen because its unnecessary. thats the only reason. leaving things as they are and developing those services means a better more wider service for all RTES audiences.

How have we a wider service for all audiences under the current situation? Particularly in regards to TV? IMO extra digital radio stations from RTÉ are unnecessary and clearly underfunded under the current structure. RTÉ have had these services fester rather than develop.

end of the road · 15-09-2014 2:07pm

Elmo wrote: »

How have we a wider service for all audiences under the current situation? Particularly in regards to TV?

the situation with tv isn't perfect but setting up another broadcaster to take these on with stations sharing time with others when they could all provide full service programing is pointless and unnecessary.

Elmo wrote: »

IMO extra digital radio stations from RTÉ are unnecessary and clearly underfunded under the current structure.

i thought you wanted more radio stations digital or otherwise? you got them and when digital radio is fully set up and the relevant BAI structure in place there will be a lot more hopefully.

Elmo wrote: »

RTÉ have had these services fester rather than develop.

yes. but setting up another public service broadcaster to take these on or even selling them off would make these services even more irrelevant and complicate things for no good reason.

Elmo · 15-09-2014 2:55pm

end of the road wrote: »

the situation with tv isn't perfect but setting up another broadcaster to take these on with stations sharing time with others when they could all provide full service programing is pointless and unnecessary.

Too much power with in one organisation. In terms of TV saorview is there to be used, all the BAI structure is there, do we really want to see a repeat with Digital Radio?

I think it is fairly straight forward you have an Irish Language PSB and and English Language PSB. This happens in most country with 2 languages New Zealand, Wales and Belgium come to mind. Australia have 2 PSB companies SBS and ABC.

yes. but setting up another public service broadcaster to take these on or even selling them off would make these services even more irrelevant and complicate things for no good reason.

TG4 is already set up as a PSB, OTV and IFB both have the ability to become PSBers, 4 PSB???? I am only suggesting 2.

flossy1 · 15-09-2014 3:28pm

I listen to GOLD only on the TV ,I grow up on 60s 70s 80s music .I would love it in the car ,random hits no talking or ads. Great .Also you could develop a little talking with shows such ' Where are they now' or What ever happen to.......' There is still alot of old gray hair "POPTERS" out there

Antenna · 17-09-2014 12:08pm

Declan A Walsh wrote: »

Some FM airtime for RTE Gold would be better than none at all.

Perhaps RTE Gold could be offered to be relayed overnight on community radio stations that do not broadcast overnight

Elmo · 17-09-2014 12:15pm

Antenna wrote: »

Perhaps RTE Gold could be offered to be relayed overnight on community radio stations that do not broadcast overnight

Easier to get a temp licence, I think they are planning gold to be the new digital channel for operation transformation. Why not put it on R1 over night ?

ford fiesta · 17-09-2014 6:44pm

It should be left the way it is. A station like GOLD could be easily ruined.

stephenireland · 18-09-2014 2:47pm

I think the week end line up excellent - it would destroy 4fm if it went on FM

Its is only in time that Digital will cover the country....

Elmo · 18-09-2014 3:07pm

stephenireland wrote: »

I think the week end line up excellent - it would destroy 4fm if it went on FM

Its is only in time that Digital will cover the country....

I was just think how other "gold" stations would react to the addition of Gold on FM.

4FM, Nova, Sunshine and Q102 are all in that market. IMO BAI need to issue niche licences for everywhere outside Dublin. I know Easy FM are putting a proposal forward for a Country Music service for the rest of the country.

Infoanon · 18-09-2014 11:25pm

Elmo wrote: »

I was just think how other "gold" stations would react to the addition of Gold on FM.

4FM, Nova, Sunshine and Q102 are all in that market. IMO BAI need to issue niche licences for everywhere outside Dublin. I know Easy FM are putting a proposal forward for a Country Music service for the rest of the country.

RTE Gold is all pre 90s, the stations mentioned above are not 'Gold' services in the true radio sense of the term.

There does not seem to be a demand for Niche services outdide of Dublin - the only station actively making the case for a niche licence is Zenith afaik.

Easy are the station that got a Saorview slot?

ford fiesta · 18-09-2014 11:31pm

There are a handful of 90s songs played on Gold, but it goes back to the 50's.

GOLD reminds me of 2FM when the RTE strike was on in early 1992.

Elmo · 18-09-2014 11:55pm

Infoanon wrote: »

RTE Gold is all pre 90s, the stations mentioned above are not 'Gold' services in the true radio sense of the term.

There does not seem to be a demand for Niche services outdide of Dublin - the only station actively making the case for a niche licence is Zenith afaik.

Easy are the station that got a Saorview slot?

Yeah Easy FM asked to be part of Saorview but sure the BAI never really pushed to get them on the service, they since applied to get the Country Music Niche service from Sunshine but Sunshine just had their licence renewed, since then it's been reported that Easy FM want to get a Country Music Licence for the rest of the country.

I am surprised that a population of 3.3million doesn't want new niche services. Your saying everyone outside Dublin is happy with

4 RTÉ National Services
2 Communicorp National Services
1 Local Radio Service
1 Regional Pop Music Service (Including Red FM in Cork)
and maybe one Multi City Service
8 - 9 stations

While a population of 1.2 million in Dublin can support 15

BAI should licence Zenith what would be the big deal?

ford fiesta · 14-12-2014 5:56pm

Does anyone know if any of the RTE Gold shows at the weekends are live??

Radio_Fan_67 · 14-12-2014 6:04pm

ford fiesta wrote: »

Does anyone know if any of the RTE Gold shows at the weekends are live??

Very unlikely, all sound voicetracked and Micheal Comyn is on RTE Radio 1 exra/ 252 lw at the same time The gold lounge with michael comyn goes out on RTE Gold.

ford fiesta · 14-12-2014 6:41pm

micky mac must record his links from Limerick studios

stephenireland · 16-12-2014 8:58pm

I am hearing RTE GOLD in lots of Petrol stations and Pubs - love the mix of music....great to have John Clarke on a Sunday....

bbability · 16-12-2014 9:50pm

stephenireland wrote: »

I am hearing RTE GOLD in lots of Petrol stations and Pubs - love the mix of music....great to have John Clarke on a Sunday....

If RTE had the brains and marketing skills some of Ireland's independently owned radio stations, someone would have marketed RTE Gold to a chain of petrol stations, shops and retail outlets. It needs exposure. Nearly 20k now following it on TuneIn

AwaitYourReply · 03-01-2015 7:20pm

I was prompted to find a thread on RTÉ GOLD topic as i was just looking at some of the recent programming changes already commented on in this thread. Of course this radio station should be given increased exposure but something tells me that RTÉ have never been permitted to earn any commercial revenue from the new digital stations such as RTÉ Gold etc; in case they damage the independent commercial sector.

The Minister for Communications and/or BAI should be asked to examine if there is any room for manoeuvre in terms of other revenue raising measures on RTÉ TV/Radio Digital services aside from the usual commercial adverts going on air. Paid Product Placement and Sponsorship deals along the lines suggested in this thread or other ways that would not adversely hurt the existing independent commercial television & radio sector.

Mr. Rabbit · 03-01-2015 11:42pm

4 RTÉ National Services
2 Communicorp National Services
1 Local Radio
Service
1 Regional Pop Music Service (Including Red FM in Cork)
and
maybe one Multi City Service
8 - 9 stations

That's about all we get in Belfast. 9 stations (along with a couple of long term community stations).

Dom Phil Cobe · 15-03-2015 12:21pm

ford fiesta wrote: »

Does anyone know if any of the RTE Gold shows at the weekends are live??

It was very obvious this morning that it's all voicetracked with John Clarke adding in a mention of Tony Fenton before the start of his Jukebox show.

Red Fred · 15-03-2015 5:10pm

I tuned in this afternoon to hear Michael Cahill play a Christmas song and jingle after which the station suddenly went into non stop music!!

bbability · 15-03-2015 5:16pm

Red Fred wrote: »

I tuned in this afternoon to hear Michael Cahill play a Christmas song and jingle after which the station suddenly went into non stop music!!

Looks like a technical problem with Michael Cahill's show today. Overnight system now playing music.

Dom Phil Cobe · 15-03-2015 5:21pm

Any reason why John Clarke etc can't do their shows live on a sunday ?

L1011 · 15-03-2015 6:42pm

Dom Phil Cobe wrote: »

Any reason why John Clarke etc can't do their shows live on a sunday ?

Two possibilities:

1: They don't want to
2: Not enough staff in the transmission suites in RTE for it. RTE Radio is still stuck in the 1970s in a few ways.

bbability · 16-03-2015 10:27am

They are obliged to provide Irish Speaking Content under the Public broadcasting Policy. The policy is under review at the minute.

ford fiesta · 17-03-2015 12:41am

No show has ever been live on gold. Maybe someday..

petronius · 23-03-2015 1:29pm

As a RnaG listener it needs to be on FM everywhere in the country.
maybe AM would be an avenue to have RnaG throughout the Island and be in the spirit of the Good Friday Agreement
The Notion of Gold being on FM is an indictment that DAB has not been a success so far.

tsofitch · 05-06-2015 10:28pm

Would be great if Gold replaced the awful RnaG. I don't think the RTE should be obliged to provide such a service. A station like Gold would be very successful on FM.

end of the road · 05-06-2015 11:18pm

tsofitch wrote: »

the awful RnaG. I don't think the RTE should be obliged to provide such a service.

why shouldn't they. RTE is a public service who's duty is to cater to all. now much of their service leaves a lot to be desired i'd agree. RNAG even though i've no interest in it myself provides a valuable service to those who live through our national language. as they pay a licence fee like the rest of us then its right they get something back for it

Enjoy Heroin Responsibly · 08-06-2015 9:11pm

Mr. Rabbit wrote: »

That's about all we get in Belfast. 9 stations (along with a couple of long term community stations).

Plus all the UK nationals ?

ford fiesta wrote: »

GOLD reminds me of 2FM when the RTE strike was on in early 1992.

Always thought RTE's output was at its best during said strike. Shame they ever went back to work !

Elmo · 08-06-2015 9:30pm

Enjoy Heroin Responsibly wrote: »

Always thought RTE's output was at its best during said strike. Shame they ever went back to work !

Yeah the arrival of the Tuesday night movie now the midweek movie not as important now but when you only had 2 channels and at school people actually talk about something You got to see.

ford fiesta · 08-06-2015 11:52pm

Elmo wrote: »

Yeah the arrival of the Tuesday night movie now the midweek movie not as important now but when you only had 2 channels and at school people actually talk about something You got to see.

yes the RTE Strike of 1992.....and they ended music every night on 2FM with ABBA 'Thank you for the music'!!

I remember the strike well.....wall to wall music with no presenters. though does anyone know who was manning the studios at the time in the days before automation, were they RTE Staff or was the music just played on DAT or reel tapes?

Elmo · 09-06-2015 12:49am

ford fiesta wrote: »

yes the RTE Strike of 1992.....and they ended music every night on 2FM with ABBA 'Thank you for the music'!!

I remember the strike well.....wall to wall music with no presenters. though does anyone know who was manning the studios at the time in the days before automation, were they RTE Staff or was the music just played on DAT or reel tapes?

I vaguely remember it from TV. I remember my mam and dad laughing at one of RTÉ Management team reading the news with no make up, stuttering and sweating, he was quite bad. The Tuesday Night Movie and Ray D'Arcy and Zig and Zag walking out of The Den saying that they had to go and they'd be back.

In fairness RTÉ were striking over draconian measures introduced by Ray Burke.

Infoanon · 09-06-2015 8:18am

Elmo wrote: »

I vaguely remember it from TV. I remember my mam and dad laughing at one of RTÉ Management team reading the news with no make up, stuttering and sweating, he was quite bad. The Tuesday Night Movie and Ray D'Arcy and Zig and Zag walking out of The Den saying that they had to go and they'd be back.

In fairness RTÉ were striking over draconian measures introduced by Ray Burke.

Nothing to do with Ray Burke - your thinking of when RTE 2FM was threatened with becoming an educational channel - a move that would benefit Century 100 - now that is another story!

Elmo · 09-06-2015 6:01pm

Infoanon wrote: »

Nothing to do with Ray Burke - your thinking of when RTE 2FM was threatened with becoming an educational channel - a move that would benefit Century 100 - now that is another story!

According to Reeling in the Years it was the cut in advertising mins and the cap on advert revenue. Was it only 2fm on strike?

Declan A Walsh · 09-06-2015 6:28pm

By the way, you do know that Century Radio ceased broadcasting in November 1991 and the 2FM strike was in 1992. I remember thinking at the time that if the strike happened when Century was still there it might have won a new audience. If memory serves me right, 98FM was tuned into a bit more for the news at the time!

Anyway, this seems to have gone a million miles away from the original topic. I would reiterate a point I made before. Could the airwaves not be shared between RTE Gold and RnaG, in order to facilitate both on FM?

Elmo · 09-06-2015 6:43pm

Declan A Walsh wrote: »

Anyway, this seems to have gone a million miles away from the original topic. I would reiterate a point I made before. Could the airwaves not be shared between RTE Gold and RnaG, in order to facilitate both on FM?

RTÉ Gold could start at 7pm and run to 7am with bulletins as geailge. If advertising was to go on the channel the indos would be in uproar.

The move would also have to go to the Minister for approval. RTÉjr's move from RTÉ2 took more than a year for a decision not to be made by pat rabbiitte and for RTÉ to withdraw the plans from Alex White.

Political and beaurocractic nightmare

SPDUB · 09-06-2015 7:48pm

Elmo wrote: »

According to Reeling in the Years it was the cut in advertising mins and the cap on advert revenue. Was it only 2fm on strike?

That may have caused the problems for RTE regarding shortage of cash but IIRC the immediate cause was RTE trying to reduce manning levels on camera crews

end of the road · 09-06-2015 9:34pm

Elmo wrote: »

If advertising was to go on the channel the indos would be in uproar.

feck them. let these low rent rags spread their rabel. as long as RTE doesn't give in and ignore them thats all that matters.

Elmo · 09-06-2015 9:45pm

end of the road wrote: »

feck them. let these low rent rags spread their rabel. as long as RTE doesn't give in and ignore them thats all that matters.

Grand now all RTÉ need to do is put in a proposal for the change. Followed by Ministerial Approval.

Losty Dublin · 11-06-2015 11:12pm

Elmo wrote: »

According to Reeling in the Years it was the cut in advertising mins and the cap on advert revenue. Was it only 2fm on strike?

Indirectly that was the cause of the strike as it caused a cash flow issue in Montrose. In the main it was proposals to cut down on staff both by way of modernising behind the scenes and as a consequence of the feared and proposed 20% quota for independent programming that led to the strike. In the long run the 20% was the possibly the best thing to have happened RTE as it led to an influx of new talented broadcasters who made fresh, innovative and excellent programmes.

Elmo · 12-06-2015 12:52am

Losty Dublin wrote: »

Indirectly that was the cause of the strike as it caused a cash flow issue in Montrose. In the main it was proposals to cut down on staff both by way of modernising behind the scenes and as a consequence of the feared and proposed 20% quota for independent programming that led to the strike. In the long run the 20% was the possibly the best thing to have happened RTE as it led to an influx of new talented broadcasters who made fresh, innovative and excellent programmes.

Large majority of whom where ex RTÉ staffers.

Should RTE Gold replace RnaG on FM ?

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