Harvey Norman - Hardly Normal?

sandin · 01-10-2012 8:27am #1

Harvey Norman seems to get a bad time on Boards. I never purchased anything from them until I tried last week in Cork, so was never sure if it was justified, however...

In order for me to purchase a €119 basic vacuum cleaner they insisted on my phone number? Is this normal?

As I prefer to keep my phone number off the databases of retail stores I said I'd prefer not to. I was told that the guarantee would not be valid unless I gave a phone number and that they are not allowed to sell the item without getting one?

Crazy or what?

I checked with HN head office and yes amazingly this is their policy for all goods over €100 and an exceptions can only be made by the store manager.

Sorry Harvey, but Currys in Cork got my business.

Now I know why they lost €23 million last year - customers are treated like muck.

slavetothegrind · 01-10-2012 8:38am

not unusual to be asked for your number sandin, powercity do the same.
i had the very same discussion with the person on the till, who had to get her manager to ok the transaction without my number!

the stuff about the warranty was pure rubbish though.

Pretty stupid losing a sale over that you would think!

andrew241983 · 01-10-2012 8:42am

why not just give them a different number then??? they don't ring u there and then and even if they did u cud just say you left ur phone in the car!!!

Sin City · 01-10-2012 8:42am

as far as im aware thats standard practice amoung.most electrical retailers. its either a legal or an insurance requirement. nothing to do with cold calling

sandin · 01-10-2012 8:44am

If it was a substantial amount, I'd see this reason, but for €100, its crazy especially as they do not authorise the person at the till to sell it to you if you don;t give it.

btw - if it was a 99.99 vacuum I was buying, there would be no issue.

I Just think its a crazy rule and a barrier to business. But sure let them at it, one day they'll realise their folly.

Joey the lips · 01-10-2012 8:49am

Its easier to search for you on a database with your phone number rather than your name.

Imagine the amount of Joseph Byrne or John o neil there is in ireland.

Where as a phone number is simular to the data base number its unique to the client.

Think about it. There point might be they need your phone number to register the guarantee.

sandin · 01-10-2012 8:50am

Sin City wrote: »

as far as im aware thats standard practice amoung.most electrical retailers. its either a legal or an insurance requirement. nothing to do with cold calling

I'm in retail 27years this year, I can absolutely assure you it has zilch to do with anything legal / insurance / warranty / guarantee or anything else except to build a database.

They claim that it makes it easier to check a guarantee if a customer is returning an item, but still a customer shold have the option to decline to give private details. At HN, you dont have the option, you either provide the number or you are refused the purchase.

Its the refusal to sell that gets me - its hard enough out there in retail land without telling customers to piss off because you insist on a phone number. - At least give the customer the opotion to refuse.

sandin · 01-10-2012 8:52am

Joey the lips wrote: »

Think about it. There point might be they need your phone number to register the guarantee.

Yes, but a guarantee does not have to be registered (that's another BS way of gettign marketing info from you) and you should be able make your own choice whether to have my number on file or not.

They can request a number, but if you choose not to provide it, then you should have that entitlement.

Procrastastudy · 01-10-2012 8:53am

There's no requirement. The retailer might request it to make it easier to put someone on a database for service but if the customer refuses that there's no skin of the retailers nose. If the punter shows up with a receipt for the goods within a reasonable time for the item to last then the retailer needs to provide a remedy. Its so very simple and yet most electronics retailers mess it up.

dahamsta · 01-10-2012 8:58am

088 1234567. Analogue baby.

Joey the lips · 01-10-2012 8:59am

sandin wrote: »

Yes, but a guarantee does not have to be registered (that's another BS way of gettign marketing info from you) and you should be able make your own choice whether to have my number on file or not.

They can request a number, but if you choose not to provide it, then you should have that entitlement.

Oh sorry. Perhaps i did not explain myself fully. What i ment was i dont believe they take your number for marketing

but you are right. Its completly silly to refuse a sale because they dont get a number. Personally i never refuse a sale. I would start by using all the numbers i know in my mind. Then i would make numbers up

ABajaninCork · 01-10-2012 9:03am

Slightly OT, but I find it annoying to give out my personal details when returning items and refuse to do so. I point out that I wasn't asked for my name & address when buying the item, so I shouldn't be asked for them when returning them with a valid receipt and the debit used to purchase them in the first place.

I was even subjected to emotional blackmail from a Dunne's employee. I was told that I was putting people's jobs at risk by not supplying my personal details! But I still got my item exchanged, even after refusing to do so.

wmpdd3 · 01-10-2012 9:09am

Yep, I bought a cheap ketttle there and the insisted on a phone nomber so I gave them the number of the phone box in the village I grew up. Stupit condition of sale. Seems to be right accross all electrical retailors, DID wanted it too. But tesco don't need a number......

daheff · 01-10-2012 10:51am

OP- just tell them that your phone was stolen (along with whatever electrical item you are buying ) and you dont have a number at the moment. You cant' give them what you dont have!

ABajaninCork wrote: »

Slightly OT, but I find it annoying to give out my personal details when returning items and refuse to do so. I point out that I wasn't asked for my name & address when buying the item, so I shouldn't be asked for them when returning them with a valid receipt and the debit used to purchase them in the first place.

In fairness, some use this to make sure that there aren't people stealing things and bringing them back to change for something they'd prefer. If the retailer sees the same name over & over again they can 'blacklist' that person.

Strange though that they think that thieves would give their real details if they are returning stuff!

I always give made up details if i'm asked.

sandin · 01-10-2012 5:05pm

ABajaninCork wrote: »

Slightly OT, but I find it annoying to give out my personal details when returning items and refuse to do so. I point out that I wasn't asked for my name & address when buying the item, so I shouldn't be asked for them when returning them with a valid receipt and the debit used to purchase them in the first place.

I was even subjected to emotional blackmail from a Dunne's employee. I was told that I was putting people's jobs at risk by not supplying my personal details! But I still got my item exchanged, even after refusing to do so.

That's actually a requirement of the revenue commissioners - but only if a monetary refund was given (card or cash). If they have an audit a random number of returns can be contacted to confirm that the goods were returned and a refund issued. - That's a proper reason and I'd have no issue with that.

ABajaninCork · 01-10-2012 5:21pm

If a monetary refund is given, I have to give over the card with which the original purchase was made.

My point remains. My name & address weren't asked for at the time of purchase, so I don't see why it should be asked for when I ask for an exchange or refund.

Procrastastudy · 01-10-2012 5:30pm

daheff wrote: »

OP- just tell them that your phone was stolen (along with whatever electrical item you are buying ) and you dont have a number at the moment. You cant' give them what you dont have!

In fairness, some use this to make sure that there aren't people stealing things and bringing them back to change for something they'd prefer. If the retailer sees the same name over & over again they can 'blacklist' that person.

Strange though that they think that thieves would give their real details if they are returning stuff!

I always give made up details if i'm asked.

That's what proof of purchase is for though. If a retailer is exchanging or refunding under goodwill with no proof of purchase then they are more then within their rights not to do so if a condition they impose is not met.

skinny90 · 01-10-2012 11:23pm

sandin wrote: »

Sin City wrote: »

as far as im aware thats standard practice amoung.most electrical retailers. its either a legal or an insurance requirement. nothing to do with cold calling

I'm in retail 27years this year, I can absolutely assure you it has zilch to do with anything legal / insurance / warranty / guarantee or anything else except to build a database.

They claim that it makes it easier to check a guarantee if a customer is returning an item, but still a customer shold have the option to decline to give private details. At HN, you dont have the option, you either provide the number or you are refused the purchase.

Its the refusal to sell that gets me - its hard enough out there in retail land without telling customers to piss off because you insist on a phone number. - At least give the customer the opotion to refuse.

Doubt it's a marketing / database,you have to agree to them using your data.if they insist on its on products "over" 100 quid,will then its probably down to the fact majority of their products over 100quid are bigger items and may require an engineer to call out,obviously it's a lot easier being able have all relevant information readily available if you call in with a faulty washing machine/couch/tv etc
I know in your case it's a vacuum but if I had to hazard a guess its either that or if theirs ever a recall on a product.
I can't see Harvey Norman taking customers information when processing a sale and using their data for either their own use or someone else's with out you agreeing.their open to being sued left right and centre

anuprising · 01-10-2012 11:31pm

Joey the lips wrote: »

Its easier to search for you on a database with your phone number rather than your name.

Imagine the amount of Joseph Byrne or John o neil there is in ireland.

Where as a phone number is simular to the data base number its unique to the client.

Think about it. There point might be they need your phone number to register the guarantee.

this is spot on , plus the main reason now for phone numbers when selling ELECTRICAL or GAS appliances is for product recalls .recently there was a safety recall on gas cookers and they couldnt trace thousands of them ,it was a potentially fatal flaw with the cookers . to try make sure this doesnt happen again the minimum they require off you is a phone number .

retailers and manufacturers probably havent communicated this too well ,or dont want to inform customers or draw there atterntion to future complications with an appliance .

Fiery mutant · 02-10-2012 12:34am

sandin wrote: »

Harvey Norman seems to get a bad time on Boards. I never purchased anything from them until I tried last week in Cork, so was never sure if it was justified, however...

In order for me to purchase a €119 basic vacuum cleaner they insisted on my phone number? Is this normal?

As I prefer to keep my phone number off the databases of retail stores I said I'd prefer not to. I was told that the guarantee would not be valid unless I gave a phone number and that they are not allowed to sell the item without getting one?

Crazy or what?

I checked with HN head office and yes amazingly this is their policy for all goods over €100 and an exceptions can only be made by the store manager.

Sorry Harvey, but Currys in Cork got my business.

Now I know why they lost €23 million last year - customers are treated like muck.

They ask for your number, so if you lose yr receipt, a digital copy can be found on the system easily. I don't understand why people find this so hard to comprehend. The guarantee stuff is folly though, and probably more likely down to how the person at the cashier explained it.

Fiery mutant · 02-10-2012 12:46am

ABajaninCork wrote: »

If a monetary refund is given, I have to give over the card with which the original purchase was made.

My point remains. My name & address weren't asked for at the time of purchase, so I don't see why it should be asked for when I ask for an exchange or refund.

To ensure the till is not being fiddled, if money is being refunded it needs to be done in correct manner, if it was yr business and money was being refunded in transactions, you would do everything you could to make sure it was all cosher.

ABajaninCork · 02-10-2012 12:54am

Fiery mutant wrote: »

To ensure the till is not being fiddled, if money is being refunded it needs to be done in correct manner, if it was yr business and money was being refunded in transactions, you would do everything you could to make sure it was all cosher.

Do you mean kosher? Well, like I said, I have to hand over the card with which the original transaction was made do I not? The assistant would then check the card against the receipt to see if it's the correct one. That I don't mind. What I DO mind is the shop asking for personal details and then attempting to resort to emotional blackmail when that information is not supplied.

That said, I do sign the slip acknowledging the refund/exchange.

The Bishop Basher · 02-10-2012 7:12am

Really don't see the problem here. Why are people so paranoid about giving a
number to a legit retailer ? I have bought many items from Harvey Norman and others over the years. I've always been glad they have my number any time I've had to go back with something as they found the receipt on the system straight away and sorted the issue.

Not once have I received a marketing call as a result.

I can understand not giving out personal details in most circumstances but this seems like getting in a huff for the sake of getting in a huff.

hattoncracker · 02-10-2012 7:24am

Im also working in retail, they only use that number so that if you come back with a problem and no receipt they can still find it as without a proof of purchase, your rights are reduced.

People lose receipts. And they don't have many rights unless they have proof of purchase.

Also, they don't keep a record of the credit card number you purchased your product with, why would they?. Although it's really interesting to see that you would prefer them to keep a record of it than to give them your contact number...

cyrusdvirus · 02-10-2012 7:40am

The only time I've given a retailer my phone number when purchasing something is when it needs to be ordered in (as in a suite of furniture) or there is some back and forth haggling (buying a car)....
Otherwise they can shag off.

In terms of the refunding thing, it's not for any internal database, it's not to check if Mr G.Crash has refunded the same thing over and over, it is a revenue requirement as mentioned earlier.

The poster who is talking about emotional blackmail may have just been dealing with an inexperienced till operator.

Remember, the retailer is under no obligation to refund you the money, most operate under a repair, replace, refund policy and it is at THEIR discretion, not yours what happens.

Procrastastudy · 02-10-2012 7:43am

gatecrash wrote: »

Remember, the retailer is under no obligation to refund you the money, most operate under a repair, replace, refund policy and it is at THEIR discretion, not yours what happens.

No its not. It's a negotiation that must arrive at a remedy within a reasonable amount of time. The law has been the same on this since 1893 - it surprises me it's still being got wrong by many retailers.

cyrusdvirus · 02-10-2012 7:46am

Procrastastudy wrote: »

No its not. It's a negotiation that must arrive at a remedy within a reasonable amount of time. The law has been the same on this since 1893 - it surprises me it's still being got wrong by many retailers.

What do you mean it's not at their discretion? You purchase something, and for whatever reason you change your mind, and the retailer HAS to give you a refund?? I don't think so.

Procrastastudy · 02-10-2012 7:47am

gatecrash wrote: »

What do you mean it's not at their discretion? You purchase something, and for whatever reason you change your mind, and the retailer HAS to give you a refund?? I don't think so.

Hang on - you're now talking about remorse? I assumed you were talking about faulty goods as you mentioned repair. I've worked for some crazy retailers in my time but none of them every tried repairing nonfaulty goods.

cyrusdvirus · 02-10-2012 7:53am

Procrastastudy wrote: »

Hang on - you're now talking about remorse? I assumed you were talking about faulty goods as you mentioned repair. I've worked for some crazy retailers in my time but none of them every tried repairing nonfaulty goods.

I'm sure you've dealt with some crazy customers too!!

I had a customer who came into me YEARS ago and insisted that i give him a new petrol lawnmower. The one he had purchased the week before was seized, because he had put no oil into it, despite me telling him that it needed oil (and even throwing the bottle into the box for him).
His rationale justifying the replacement to a unit he had bollixed up was that he couldn't read, and all the warning labels meant nothing to him.

Are you telling me that i was obliged to refund him the money? Or give him a new machine? No way

Procrastastudy · 02-10-2012 8:06am

gatecrash wrote: »

I'm sure you've dealt with some crazy customers too!!

I had a customer who came into me YEARS ago and insisted that i give him a new petrol lawnmower. The one he had purchased the week before was seized, because he had put no oil into it, despite me telling him that it needed oil (and even throwing the bottle into the box for him).
His rationale justifying the replacement to a unit he had bollixed up was that he couldn't read, and all the warning labels meant nothing to him.

Are you telling me that i was obliged to refund him the money? Or give him a new machine? No way

You are still referring to a different issue than the one you originally eluded too.

cyrusdvirus · 02-10-2012 8:09am

Procrastastudy wrote: »

You are still referring to a different issue than the one you originally eluded too.

Originally I said the retailer is under no obligation to refund the customer.

I should have prefaced that with AT THE OUTSET, the retailer etc etc...

Procrastastudy · 02-10-2012 8:14am

gatecrash wrote: »

Originally I said the retailer is under no obligation to refund the customer.

I should have prefaced that with AT THE OUTSET, the retailer etc etc...

They are if they fail to provide a remedy within a reasonable time.

sandin · 02-10-2012 9:24am

Swanner wrote: »

Really don't see the problem here. Why are people so paranoid about giving a
number to a legit retailer ? I have bought many items from Harvey Norman and others over the years. I've always been glad they have my number any time I've had to go back with something as they found the receipt on the system straight away and sorted the issue.

Not once have I received a marketing call as a result.

I can understand not giving out personal details in most circumstances but this seems like getting in a huff for the sake of getting in a huff.

hattoncracker wrote: »

Im also working in retail, they only use that number so that if you come back with a problem and no receipt they can still find it as without a proof of purchase, your rights are reduced.

People lose receipts. And they don't have many rights unless they have proof of purchase.

Also, they don't keep a record of the credit card number you purchased your product with, why would they?. Although it's really interesting to see that you would prefer them to keep a record of it than to give them your contact number...

I have no issue with them asking, but I should have the option to refuse to provide personal details and if that means I can't get a copy of a receipt or whateer, then that's my issue.

My problem with HN is that their policy is that if you don't give your phone number then they will not sell to you. And from a business point of view in today's market and especially when the retailer in question LOST €23MILLION last year, its folly.

As for credit card numbers, they are PCI compliant and as such card details are safe. - AND you have a choice of paying with cash but no choice in providing a phone number.

Look, its their loss, I simply purchased elsewhere. It looks like 50% of people here don't like the policy. If they changed it and gave you an option not to provide it, then there'd be no issue. Its the insistence of something that is not a legal requirement that I found disconcerting and the fact that the staff did not have a answer for why they took it.

ABajaninCork · 02-10-2012 12:53pm

gatecrash wrote: »

The only time I've given a retailer my phone number when purchasing something is when it needs to be ordered in (as in a suite of furniture) or there is some back and forth haggling (buying a car)....
Otherwise they can shag off.

In terms of the refunding thing, it's not for any internal database, it's not to check if Mr G.Crash has refunded the same thing over and over, it is a revenue requirement as mentioned earlier.

The poster who is talking about emotional blackmail may have just been dealing with an inexperienced till operator.

Remember, the retailer is under no obligation to refund you the money, most operate under a repair, replace, refund policy and it is at THEIR discretion, not yours what happens.

No, sadly not. I was speaking to a manager!! :eek:

daheff · 02-10-2012 1:40pm

Procrastastudy wrote: »

That's what proof of purchase is for though. If a retailer is exchanging or refunding under goodwill with no proof of purchase then they are more then within their rights not to do so if a condition they impose is not met.

I agree with you fully. Without proof of purchase there is no requirement for the retailer to refund/repair/replace etc. Its just a goodwill gesture.

My point was more to give a reason why they may ask for this info.

BostonB · 03-10-2012 4:11pm

I wouldn't give my details. What if you don't have a number, or you change it. Makes no sense.

johndoe99 · 03-10-2012 4:16pm

BostonB wrote: »

I wouldn't give my details. What if you don't have a number, or you change it. Makes no sense.

that a very good point, what if you did change your number, does that mean the guarantee would not be valid. That's crazy :eek:

Harvey Norman - Hardly Normal?

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