Jerky buses (or is it the drivers?)

Alun · 05-10-2007 3:57pm #1

I'm not that regular a bus user, but I use the 145 from Bray into town fairly often, and have noticed a great deal of difference from one trip to the other in the overall smoothness of the journey. Sometimes it will be just about acceptable, although far from smooth, other times I'll get off the bus in O'Connell Street and feel positively queasy what the amount I've been tossed around and jerked backwards and forwards in my seat as the bus brakes and accelerates.

I'd always imagined up till now that it was primarily due to the bus itself, but a couple of recent experiences have suggested that it might be more down to the individual driver. Sometimes when I've been on the bus, and there's been a driver change, either at Donnybrook or Bray Dart station, the difference in ride after the change has been quite remarkable. Also on a recent journey I was on one of the brand new buses with the LED displays, and that was one of the worst experiences I've had in a long time .. jerky braking and acceleration before and after every stop, with passengers being thrown about all over the place as the mounted / dismounted the bus. I can't imagine that a brand new bus would be so bad as to be the cause of that, or would it?

Anyway, it's getting to the stage where I'd prefer to drive to the Dart station and take the (more expensive) Dart, rather than take the bus that leaves from practically outside the door!

Any comments from the bus drivers in here?

Wishbone Ash · 05-10-2007 4:16pm

Alun wrote:

Any comments from the bus drivers in here?

I would always try to make the journey for the passengers as smooth as possible and would avoid heavy braking/acceleration where possible. In some buses the brakes can be very sharp and have to be 'nursed' to prevent jolting. Drivers often forget that the can obviously aticipate when they are going to brake and they also have the steering wheel to brace themselves against wheras many passemgers may not have a lot to hold onto. In saying that, some drivers are just more considerate than others.

SickCert · 05-10-2007 5:40pm

Sometimes an AX in the 400 series finds its way onto the road, the brakes on these are under review. Very severe!
If you havent driven one in a few weeks, you forget and slam on like a typical AV decker and then have your nose on the windscreen - i havent driven one since AX450s first day on the road in 2006, i dodge and defect them like the plague.

And yes you also have the odd Schumy F1 driver!

markpb · 05-10-2007 11:42pm

Road surface quality in Dublin is pretty poor which can help make the ride quality worse. If you look around, you'll notice places where the road was dug up and patched (badly) with tar. In other places, potholes are filled with grit and tar which wears down quickly. Still other places are warped by buses braking heavily - you'll see those where there's a ridge at the side of the road, near the footpath.

In LA they experimented with a rubber based road surface for the Orange Line busway. The idea was that the softer surface would be more like a train quality but for some unknown reason, the surface degenerated quite badly and needs to be replaced. Other cities use poured concrete on guided busways because it has a lower tendancy to wear away than tarmac.

Ernest · 06-10-2007 11:32am

I agree that most Dublin buses are dangerous for anyone not sitting down due to their jerky or sudden braking which can cause physical damage to people's ankle, knee and hip joints.
However the same is true on DART trains where exactly the same problem arises. Do drivers have any training on the affect of their stop-start driving/braking can have on passengers forced to stand because of Iarnrod Eireann's polidy on standing commuters being "acceptable" to them? Clearly not I would guess. I have not noticed that this does not seem to be a problem in metro systems in other European cities. Perhaps they have better driver training and even monitoring. Or is it because these systems implement better braking systems installation and maintenance. Clearly Iarnrod Eireann couldn't care less about its passengers.

parsi · 06-10-2007 2:46pm

You should try the bus from St Briac to St Malo. No fear of jerking there. Hardly and fear of going at any decent speed. The drivers seem to be unable to drive their bus - need wide sweeping turns and very clear junctions. I'd love to get one of them over to do a narrow Cork route...

Red Alert · 06-10-2007 6:35pm

Everyone's driving style is different when driving a car, so bus drivers are naturally going to have different driving styles too.

How'd you manage to dodge specific buses? Can you pick the bus you bring out?

dazberry · 06-10-2007 7:02pm

I expect buses to be a bit jerky, but I was on a 69 recently and it was a white knuckle ride (no puns please). There are some modest speed ramps on the main road near me, and the driver hit the first one so hard that it almost winded me. Once the bus got to Dame St I felt the driver messing with the suspension (low floor bus) - could this have been the issue???

D.

Jamar · 06-10-2007 7:15pm

The 83 Bus route is terrible for this. Mostly it's speed bumps, poor quality roads, and lots of turns on narrow roads. Both my wife and I often end up feeling queasy...

parsi · 06-10-2007 11:27pm

Many many many moons ago I got the No.2 from Mayorstone to Plassey driven by the infamous Timmy O'Driscoll who zoomed in from the main gate as usual but didn't realise that a massive speed ramp had been installed. So a bus load of folk got thrown up into the air and down again with a bang...

AlekSmart · 07-10-2007 1:13am

Quoth Dazberry :
[ "Once the bus got to Dame St I felt the driver messing with the suspension (low floor bus) - could this have been the issue???"]

I very much doubt if it was the driver in this case.
If you stand and observe a line of Low Floor buses or indeed any air suspended vehicle its most likely you will get to hear and see the system self-adjusting.

Some types of vehicles,notably Bus Eireann`s Scania SI and SC classes are very prone to dramatic self-adjust episodes which can see the Vehicle do a rumba whilst stationary at traffic lights etc.
So too to some of Dublin Bus`s AV and AX class buses self adjust and this can be a totally random act and with differing levels of speed and severity.

With most of the new generation LF designs the suspension is now controlled by an electronic sub system of the main Electronic Control Unit (Brain) and is therefore failsafe,infallible etc etc ....

shltter · 07-10-2007 6:53am

There is a problem with the AX brakes and with the new EVs as well

hard to explain but basically if you try to have a smooth brake you end up overshooting the stop and if you try and correct it and stop at the stop the brakes grab hard.
When you are driving it feels like the brakes are not working properly so you give it another little squeeze and then boom it sticks to the road.

Some of them are worse than others

The company have been informed of the situation and say they are monitoring it along with a good few other issues.( Suggestion to Alun perhaps you might write off a complaint specifically mentioning that it was a new EV type bus and the braking problem )

On the bumps if the suspension is high it exaggerates the bumps probably why the driver was trying to lower it as you got off.

SickCert · 08-10-2007 12:42am

shltter wrote:

There is a problem with the AX brakes and with the new EVs as well

hard to explain but basically if you try to have a smooth brake you end up overshooting the stop and if you try and correct it and stop at the stop the brakes grab hard.
When you are driving it feels like the brakes are not working properly so you give it another little squeeze and then boom it sticks to the road.

Some of them are worse than others

The company have been informed of the situation and say they are monitoring it along with a good few other issues.( Suggestion to Alun perhaps you might write off a complaint specifically mentioning that it was a new EV type bus and the braking problem )

On the bumps if the suspension is high it exaggerates the bumps probably why the driver was trying to lower it as you got off.

Was chatting to a mechanic about these AX brakes and he says they work on a one to ten ratio, they respond to the same pressure applied as per ten presses ago? All i can say is they are Dangerous!

Self adjusting buses (susp)
Many a VL will sit at traffic lights, uppering and lowering, then up and down again then again....................again!
Like a bloody roller coaster! I doubt any driver would be bothered with the ferry lift.

Nevyn · 08-10-2007 1:22am

The 220 route is just awful with the bend turns and ramps.

markpb · 08-10-2007 10:08am

AlekSmart wrote:

Some types of vehicles,notably Bus Eireann`s Scania SI and SC classes are very prone to dramatic self-adjust episodes which can see the Vehicle do a rumba whilst stationary at traffic lights etc.

This is very entertaining to watch. Whoosh.. everyone slides to the right... whoosh... everyone slides to the left :-)

On a similar vein, I'd love to meet the genius who decided to put a metal speed bump on the bus only lane into the airport. I mean seriously....

Red Alert · 08-10-2007 11:55am

The self adjust shouldn't really be felt anywhere except at the front end of the bus I'd imagine. Never noticed the self-adjust being unpleasant though.

meanmachine3 · 08-10-2007 7:31pm

most bus drivers are allocated a bus ,they have to check it over before they drive it. if it has a problem then he/she may defect it. problems tend to differ with different drivers. that is a driver could have a problem with a bus another can take the same bus and have no problem with that bus

Wishbone Ash · 08-10-2007 10:43pm

markpb wrote:

I'd love to meet the genius who decided to put a metal speed bump on the bus only lane into the airport

Where is that speed ramp mark? Is it new? (I haven't been there in a couple of weeks).

patrickc · 09-10-2007 12:17am

shltter wrote:

There is a problem with the AX brakes

f.

ah was on 2 ax's today and was wondering why the driver kept stopping a good few metres away from the stop, particularly where old people with walking sticks etc were trying to get on.

John R · 09-10-2007 1:49am

Wishbone Ash wrote:

Where is that speed ramp mark? Is it new? (I haven't been there in a couple of weeks).

It's just at the entrance to the bus parking where the airport police abandon their SUVs, I think it's there because the road has been narrowed as there is excavation going on in the area.

Of course this won't effect Dublin Bus services for too much longer as DAA are determined to move them all to the other side of the short stay car park complex to make room in the prime location for Aircoach and anyone else willing to pay for the privelege.

Victor · 12-10-2007 10:38pm

John R wrote: »

Of course this won't effect Dublin Bus services for too much longer as DAA are determined to move them all to the other side of the short stay car park complex to make room in the prime location for Aircoach and anyone else willing to pay for the privelege.

An Bord Pleanála have sorted this. The most popular routes must be placed closest to the terminals.

markpb · 13-10-2007 12:24pm

John R wrote: »

Of course this won't effect Dublin Bus services for too much longer as DAA are determined to move them all to the other side of the short stay car park complex to make room in the prime location for Aircoach and anyone else willing to pay for the privelege.

There's something to be said for putting DB's Airlink service right outside departures and keeping the local services slightly hidden. Lot of other cities do this to encourage passengers to pay for premium routes while keeping the local services for airport staff. That said, it should be a decision for DB, not DAA and should not be made for commercial reasons.

Victor · 13-10-2007 4:41pm

markpb wrote: »

That said, it should be a decision for DB, not DAA and should not be made for commercial reasons.

The airport is DAA property and there are lots of operators involved.

http://www.dublinairport.com/to-and-from/by-bus/

markpb · 13-10-2007 7:31pm

Victor wrote: »

The airport is DAA property and there are lots of operators involved.

You're right of course, but it just once in a while it would be nice to see different parts of the government work together instead of looking for sticks to beat each other with

I totally agree with DB running local routes through the airport but I disagree with their stops being right beside the express services. You can't blame tourists for getting on the first bus that comes along, especially if they know it's cheaper. What I meant was that DB should do something about this instead of it happing by accident because DAA want to make more money.

I've dragged it slightly off topic, sorry. Err yeah, so, jerky buses are bad, especially when they're caused by speed ramps (Phew. saved it!

)

AlekSmart · 14-10-2007 12:53pm

Quote [Markpb]

"I've dragged it slightly off topic, sorry. Err yeah, so, jerky buses are bad, especially when they're caused by speed ramps (Phew. saved it! )" [End]

Anybody familiar with the Churchtown/Balinteer end of the 14/14A/48A Routes will be very familiar with just how Bloody Minded,Imbicilic and downright Anti-Social a Local Authority can be.

From the Bottle-Tower pub allthe way to Superquinn Balinteer the local authority installed some of the least "friendly" speed control measures in the State.

Whilst Bus Passengers may only have to endure this Dangerous and physically threatening procedure twice per day,their driver may well have to traverse these examples of Administrative laziness up to 8 times in a working day.

Nobody appears to give a flying fluich about the VERY obvious physical repercussions to the human spine from these useless things.
There is NO safe speed for a Bus to traverse the ramps,particularly those on Beaumount Road which appear to meet with NO statutory criteria for Speed Control measures on Bus Routes.

The ONLY way for these abberations to be removed appears to be if we can lure the responsible members of the local authority along with BAC senior management onto an actual BUS and drive them up and down the section of the route until they see (or feel) sense.

Make no mistake,none of these worthies would spend THEIR working day bracing themselves in their leather-backed executive recliners as they attempted to perform their herculean working tasks.

Why does SO much of Irish Public Administration need to revolve around cheap and nasty solutions to often non-existant problems ..???

Red Alert · 14-10-2007 1:02pm

I'm sure also that can't be good for the buses that have to go over them and also the driver's sanity. Some of the older RA/RV's seem to be very rattly going over the ramps too.

Capt'n Midnight · 14-10-2007 8:16pm

don't forget that a double decker bus has a short wheelbase and when you are upstairs you are further from the center of momentum

Voipjunkie · 15-10-2007 1:19pm

AlekSmart wrote: »

Quote [Markpb]

"I've dragged it slightly off topic, sorry. Err yeah, so, jerky buses are bad, especially when they're caused by speed ramps (Phew. saved it! )" [End]

Anybody familiar with the Churchtown/Balinteer end of the 14/14A/48A Routes will be very familiar with just how Bloody Minded,Imbicilic and downright Anti-Social a Local Authority can be.

From the Bottle-Tower pub allthe way to Superquinn Balinteer the local authority installed some of the least "friendly" speed control measures in the State.

Whilst Bus Passengers may only have to endure this Dangerous and physically threatening procedure twice per day,their driver may well have to traverse these examples of Administrative laziness up to 8 times in a working day.

Nobody appears to give a flying fluich about the VERY obvious physical repercussions to the human spine from these useless things.
There is NO safe speed for a Bus to traverse the ramps,particularly those on Beaumount Road which appear to meet with NO statutory criteria for Speed Control measures on Bus Routes.

The ONLY way for these abberations to be removed appears to be if we can lure the responsible members of the local authority along with BAC senior management onto an actual BUS and drive them up and down the section of the route until they see (or feel) sense.

Make no mistake,none of these worthies would spend THEIR working day bracing themselves in their leather-backed executive recliners as they attempted to perform their herculean working tasks.

Why does SO much of Irish Public Administration need to revolve around cheap and nasty solutions to often non-existant problems ..???

Alex they should take a leaf out of the 42B route drivers who i believe called in the HSA over just such an issue. The HSA agreed that they were a health and safety risk and the bus was diverted until DCC changed the ramps to bus friendly ramps.

Ham'nd'egger · 15-10-2007 2:32pm

Alex, selfishly (And rightly so) you will be concerned with buses and ramps, given that it is your trade per se. These ramps will be put in under what is known as "traffic calming". Most people are under the influence that these are to lower speeds on roads, which is part of their role, but their chief aim is to stop people from driving on roads. While this will make for ones avenue to be possibly quieter than before, the problems created are tenfold IMO. One recalls the Ballyfermot Bus Corridor, opened in 1993 and all but closed in 1994 when the Corpo put chicanes into the road from Sarsfield Road to Cherry Orchard, thus blocking the bus lane every 300 metres. The main "Aim" was achieved; speeds lowered but conjestion increased as buses and trucks crawled through the concrete Gards. The claims that the road was a joyriders heaven didn't consider that the postcode has more milage of DC road than anywhere in Dublin

The professional driver is a beaten and savaged victim of what is essentially an aid to make ones home more homely; the bus driver, taximan, delivery vans and trucks, all whom work in and and over these bumps can tell of shredded tyres, off line suspensions and aching bodies. The back roads and streets that have ramps to deter rat runners can do far better with one way systems, narrowing bollards and creating some convenient cul de sacs than by de facto vandalising cars in the name of NIMBYism and house prices.

Red Alert · 15-10-2007 2:35pm

Presumably the increase in traffic calming also had some contribution towards the visible body sag that many KD double deckers had in their final years.

trellheim · 15-10-2007 3:08pm

Alex do you mean Beaufort Rd ?

Jerky buses (or is it the drivers?)

Comments