Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie
Hi all! We have been experiencing an issue on site where threads have been missing the latest postings. The platform host Vanilla are working on this issue. A workaround that has been used by some is to navigate back from 1 to 10+ pages to re-sync the thread and this will then show the latest posts. Thanks, Mike.
Hi there,
There is an issue with role permissions that is being worked on at the moment.
If you are having trouble with access or permissions on regional forums please post here to get access: https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058365403/you-do-not-have-permission-for-that#latest

Rocking/pushing trams off of people?

  • 28-08-2014 10:24am
    #1
    Going Forward
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 8,224 ✭✭✭


    There's been 2 recent instances of the general public allegedly lifting trams/carriages off of people.

    Apart from the fact that rocking something back and forth against an injury doesn't seem like the best idea, are we in urban myth territory here?

    Surely the "trapped " can do without this untrained intervention?


Comments

  • #2
    Dravokivich
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Music Moderators, Politics Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 22,360 CMod ✭✭✭✭Dravokivich


    The last thing I'd expect anyone would want, is for it to be rocked. but suppose, if enough people are able to gather around to force it up, hold it long enough to pull someone from underneath. That'd be better than the constant pressure someone would be feeling on their body.

    The main thing to consider though is whether or not anyone around is able to attend any injury someone suffers from being run over and pinned down by a tram. Thinking along the lines of how one should generally not move someone with a suspected neck injury.


  • #3
    Ben D Bus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,128 ✭✭✭Ben D Bus


    If there is any bleeding or neck/spinal injury I can imagine this could only make things worse.

    But it's the thing to do now that it's all over Youtube.

    Must check the Emergency Services forum to see if there is an opinion expressed there.


  • #4
    devnull
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 11,687 Mod ✭✭✭✭devnull


    If it has severed an artery et but the blood isn't flying out because there is something stuck on/in it, removing something without the correct medical standby could lead someone to bleed out.


  • #5
    Mikros
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 505 ✭✭✭Mikros


    I'd love to hear an opinion from someone in the Fire Brigade, but it seems like a bad idea to me. The tram can just as easily rock back onto the trapped casualty possibly doing more damage. Then there is moving the casualty in an uncontrolled manner - could cause more damage, especially if there are spinal injuries. It's not like the emergency services are going to be that long a wait in a city.

    I mean you wouldn't attempt to extract someone trapped in a car crash, unless they were in immediate danger, but one youtube video later and people are running to push over trains and trams :confused::confused:


  • #6
    Going Forward
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 8,224 ✭✭✭Going Forward


    I'd also be concerned that one of those pushing would end up putting their hands through the glass!!


  • Advertisement
  • #7
    Grolschevik
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,472 ✭✭✭Grolschevik


    In that video, it sounds like she only starts crying out in pain after the crowd starts trying to lift the tram. Suggests to me that the pain was caused by the tram returning to its resting position during the first few attempts.


  • #8
    foggy_lad
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,373 ✭✭✭✭foggy_lad


    In both of the recent examples the people were not pinned under and had not been run over by the trams, they had become trapped between the carriages and the platform edge. I'm sure if someone had been actually run over and maybe had a limb amputated or had been pinned down across their chest/abdomen the bystanders would have been much less willing to intervene.

    It can be beneficial to someone like that young girl to be extracted quickly from the situation she found herself in by reducing her stress and hysteria and also shortening the time she is exposed to the public gaze. The ambulance would have arrived and possible have to wait for other vehicles with extra equipment and then the extraction starts after a very long delay, while in this instance the girl was judged by those in attendance to be in no obvious danger and she was freed and was ready to be whisked away to hospital as soon as the ambulance arrived.

    This whole following procedure for the ambulance and fire service is gone way over the top IMHO, I have heard stories of people involved in very minor crashes who got out of their car at the scene being ordered back into their car by the fire service so they could cut the roof off the car and extract the person "properly"!


  • #9
    Ben D Bus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,128 ✭✭✭Ben D Bus


    foggy_lad wrote: »
    the girl was judged by those in attendance to be in no obvious danger

    You see, that's the bit I have a problem with. The popular vote rather than expertise seems to have decided the best course of action.


  • #10
    foggy_lad
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,373 ✭✭✭✭foggy_lad


    Ben D Bus wrote: »
    You see, that's the bit I have a problem with. The popular vote rather then expertise seems to have decided the best course of action.

    I didn't see any voting or even a show of hands in either clip. how do we know the expertise of anyone in either situation? Maybe the instigators were paramedics or fire service members who just didn't want to be plastered all over the news as being a part of it?


  • #11
    Del.Monte
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,363 ✭✭✭✭Del.Monte


    Ben D Bus wrote: »
    You see, that's the bit I have a problem with. The popular vote rather then expertise seems to have decided the best course of action.

    Yeah, it would have been much better to have another mass and do nothing.

    ****



  • Advertisement
  • #12
    Ben D Bus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,128 ✭✭✭Ben D Bus


    Del.Monte wrote: »
    Yeah, it would have been much better to have another mass and do nothing.

    Yes, because doing 'something' is always the correct option :rolleyes:


  • #13
    Chattastrophe!
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,284 ✭✭✭Chattastrophe!


    foggy_lad wrote: »
    I have heard stories of people involved in very minor crashes who got out of their car at the scene being ordered back into their car by the fire service so they could cut the roof off the car and extract the person "properly"!

    Yeah, I'm pretty sure that's never happened. ;)


  • #14
    ardle1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,521 ✭✭✭ardle1


    foggy_lad wrote: »
    In both of the recent examples the people were not pinned under and had not been run over by the trams, they had become trapped between the carriages and the platform edge. I'm sure if someone had been actually run over and maybe had a limb amputated or had been pinned down across their chest/abdomen the bystanders would have been much less willing to intervene.

    It can be beneficial to someone like that young girl to be extracted quickly from the situation she found herself in by reducing her stress and hysteria and also shortening the time she is exposed to the public gaze. The ambulance would have arrived and possible have to wait for other vehicles with extra equipment and then the extraction starts after a very long delay, while in this instance the girl was judged by those in attendance to be in no obvious danger and she was freed and was ready to be whisked away to hospital as soon as the ambulance arrived.

    This whole following procedure for the ambulance and fire service is gone way over the top IMHO, I have heard stories of people involved in very minor crashes who got out of their car at the scene being ordered back into their car by the fire service so they could cut the roof off the car and extract the person "properly"!

    HUH


  • #15
    Five Lamps
    Closed Accounts Posts: 687 ✭✭✭Five Lamps


    ardle1 wrote: »
    HUH

    Yep, utter rubbish.

    On the other hand I have heard of people hopping out of the cars as soon as the cutting equipment is brought out. Tends to be case when the accident and injuries are less than genuine.


  • #16
    Alkers
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,869 ✭✭✭Alkers


    Chattastrophe! wrote: »
    Yeah, I'm pretty sure that's never happened. ;)

    What about the case in the UK where a guy drowned in water up to his waist while the emergency serves spent an age setting up command tents and getting in specialist units etc


  • #17
    Losty Dublin
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,245 ✭✭✭✭Losty Dublin


    Simona1986 wrote: »
    What about the case in the UK where a guy drowned in water up to his waist while the emergency serves spent an age setting up command tents and getting in specialist units etc

    What case was that, per chance?


  • #18
    Alkers
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,869 ✭✭✭Alkers


    Losty Dublin wrote: »
    What case was that, per chance?

    http://www.theguardian.com/uk/2012/feb/22/man-drowned-lake-firefighters


  • #19
    Beano
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,357 ✭✭✭Beano


    Simona1986 wrote: »
    What about the case in the UK where a guy drowned in water up to his waist while the emergency serves spent an age setting up command tents and getting in specialist units etc

    what has one got to do with the other?


  • #20
    Alkers
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,869 ✭✭✭Alkers


    Beano wrote: »
    what has one got to do with the other?

    Just illustrating and example of where procedures and protocols can be to the detriment of common sense.


  • #21
    monument
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 14,088 Mod ✭✭✭✭monument


    Simona1986 wrote: »
    Just illustrating and example of where procedures and protocols can be to the detriment of common sense.

    I'm afraid in this case "common sense" is to wrongly rock a tram on top of somebody's leg!


  • Advertisement
  • #22
    end of the road
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,146 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    foggy_lad wrote: »
    I have heard stories of people involved in very minor crashes who got out of their car at the scene being ordered back into their car by the fire service so they could cut the roof off the car and extract the person "properly"!
    haven't heard of that myself, but whoever ordered such a thing should be sacked

    I'm very highly educated. I know words, i have the best words, nobody has better words then me.



Advertisement