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Advocates of limited immigration accused of being racist.

1246

Comments

  • #152
    Pro Hoc Vice
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,087 ✭✭✭Pro Hoc Vice


    guyjohn wrote: »
    Rights to welfare payments . You suggest the state has Immigration under control and all is perfect.
    Then why do does the government want to reform the Immigration and Residence Bill. ?

    That bill will have little or no effect on EEA persons. But it has been clear that the last 10 years of legislation in the area needs serious reform.


  • #153
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    guyjohn wrote: »
    You can if you are clever persistent and know a loophole. !


    Vague waffle.
    guyjohn wrote: »
    There was a program on TV about Roma gypsies in the UK. They just stay there to pass the HR test then get childrens allowance for those in Romania .They send a little back and keep the rest for themselves. lovely jubbly.
    !

    We're talking about this jurisdiction.

    guyjohn wrote: »
    The number of PPS allocations this year in Ireland , Romania is the third highest !

    PPS numbers are required for people to legally work in the state.
    guyjohn wrote: »
    There are employers that facilitate those to appear as if in employment so they can claim.

    Evidence?


  • #154
    Pro Hoc Vice
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,087 ✭✭✭Pro Hoc Vice


    Nodin wrote: »
    Vague waffle.



    We're talking about this jurisdiction.




    PPS numbers are required for people to legally work in the state.



    Evidence?

    While a person who is working requires a PPS number that number gives no right to work. A person with no legal right to work will in many cases have a PPS number an example is a family member if a person on a stamp 4 may have a stamp 3 such a stamp allows a person to reside but not work a PPS number will still be required.


  • #155
    AlekSmart
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,005 ✭✭✭✭AlekSmart


    guyjohn wrote: »
    You can if you are clever persistent and know a loophole. There was a program on TV about Roma gypsies in the UK. They just stay there to pass the HR test then get childrens allowance for those in Romania .They send a little back and keep the rest for themselves. lovely jubbly.
    The number of PPS allocations this year in Ireland , Romania is the third highest !

    Guyjohn,as you are rapidly finding out,it is IMPOSSIBLE for anybody to arrive in Ireland and secure any form of Social Payment.

    It will be a lot easier to simply agree and move on from that.

    You have already been asked for Evidence,as well as having had reams of detailed explanatory notes presented for your delectation explaining why it is IMPOSSIBLE.

    However,as both You and I know,the actuality can often be quite different from what most people imagine it to be.

    I'm happy enough in my own knowledge that it is quite possible for individuals,particularly if there are dependents and/or minors involved to make landfall in Ireland and within a very short time be in reciept of State support.

    The key is,and always has been,to get into the Social Support System AT ANY LEVEL...an immediate payment is NOT a necessity,as once an application for a given benefit has been submitted,the State is then on-the-hook,until that initial application,and any subsequent appeal is decided upon.

    As you correctly allude to,a degree of cleverness,persistence and the ability to avail of the relevant "Knowledge Based Support Networks" is a prerequisite...but it is unlikely that ANY of these traits are being utilised in our Country...surely..???


    Men, it has been well said, think in herds; it will be seen that they go mad in herds, while they only recover their senses slowly, and one by one.

    Charles Mackay (1812-1889)



  • #156
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    AlekSmart wrote: »
    Guyjohn,as you are rapidly finding out,it is IMPOSSIBLE for anybody to arrive in Ireland and secure any form of Social Payment.

    It will be a lot easier to simply agree and move on from that.

    You have already been asked for Evidence,as well as having had reams of detailed explanatory notes presented for your delectation explaining why it is IMPOSSIBLE.

    However,as both You and I know,the actuality can often be quite different from what most people imagine it to be.

    The usual vague waffle, with no evidence to back it up whatsoever.


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  • #157
    guyjohn
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 101 ✭✭guyjohn


    Pro Hoc Vice wrote: »
    While a person who is working requires a PPS number that number gives no right to work. A person with no legal right to work will in many cases have a PPS number an example is a family member if a person on a stamp 4 may have a stamp 3 such a stamp allows a person to reside but not work a PPS number will still be required.

    Some employers do not check the persons status or ignore it.


  • #158
    guyjohn
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 101 ✭✭guyjohn


    Pro Hoc Vice wrote: »
    That bill will have little or no effect on EEA persons. But it has been clear that the last 10 years of legislation in the area needs serious reform.

    There is a move to require those EU citizens with elderly parents entry restrictions here.


  • #159
    guyjohn
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 101 ✭✭guyjohn


    Nodin wrote: »
    Vague waffle.



    We're talking about this jurisdiction.




    PPS numbers are required for people to legally work in the state.



    Evidence?

    I know first hand but its got harder.


  • #160
    alastair
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,309 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    guyjohn wrote: »
    There is a move to require those EU citizens with elderly parents entry restrictions here.

    More imaginings? Any iota of evidence to support this claim? Because it sounds and smells like complete nonsense.


  • #161
    alastair
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,309 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    guyjohn wrote: »
    I know first hand but its got harder.

    Well, colour me convinced. :rolleyes:


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  • #162
    guyjohn
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 101 ✭✭guyjohn


    AlekSmart wrote: »
    Guyjohn,as you are rapidly finding out,it is IMPOSSIBLE for anybody to arrive in Ireland and secure any form of Social Payment.

    It will be a lot easier to simply agree and move on from that.

    You have already been asked for Evidence,as well as having had reams of detailed explanatory notes presented for your delectation explaining why it is IMPOSSIBLE.

    However,as both You and I know,the actuality can often be quite different from what most people imagine it to be.

    I'm happy enough in my own knowledge that it is quite possible for individuals,particularly if there are dependents and/or minors involved to make landfall in Ireland and within a very short time be in reciept of State support.

    The key is,and always has been,to get into the Social Support System AT ANY LEVEL...an immediate payment is NOT a necessity,as once an application for a given benefit has been submitted,the State is then on-the-hook,until that initial application,and any subsequent appeal is decided upon.

    As you correctly allude to,a degree of cleverness,persistence and the ability to avail of the relevant "Knowledge Based Support Networks" is a prerequisite...but it is unlikely that ANY of these traits are being utilised in our Country...surely..???

    See you admit possible but not impossible. Nothing is impossible if you want it bad enough.
    Move on no too much of a laugh. .


  • #163
    guyjohn
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 101 ✭✭guyjohn


    alastair wrote: »
    More imaginings? Any iota of evidence to support this claim? Because it sounds and smells like complete nonsense.

    What smells ?? The gov is worried about the pension time bomb .I saw a draft only .
    Pay me I will get evidence I don't work for nothing.


  • #164
    alastair
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,309 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    guyjohn wrote: »
    What smells ??

    Bull****.


  • #165
    Pro Hoc Vice
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,087 ✭✭✭Pro Hoc Vice


    guyjohn wrote: »
    There is a move to require those EU citizens with elderly parents entry restrictions here.

    Only workers have unrestricted rights to enter, students and retired persons must show they can maintain themselves and have private health care it has always been thus. Can you point out your supposed change that restricts EU parents entering.

    As a family member of a EU citizen under the free movement of worker family dependants have a right to enter and reside, but there must be a worker who is moving.


  • #166
    guyjohn
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 101 ✭✭guyjohn


    alastair wrote: »
    More imaginings? Any iota of evidence to support this claim? Because it sounds and smells like complete nonsense.

    Just imagine if I was not posting you would have no one to pick at.


  • #167
    alastair
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,309 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    guyjohn wrote: »
    Just imagine if I was not posting you would have no one to pick at.

    Maybe you might consider just not posting inflammatory nonsense in the first place?


  • #168
    Pro Hoc Vice
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,087 ✭✭✭Pro Hoc Vice


    guyjohn wrote: »
    What smells ?? The gov is worried about the pension time bomb .I saw a draft only .
    Pay me I will get evidence I don't work for nothing.

    You don't really understand how debate works do you. It's really simple, a person (you) puts forward a view, another person (me or others) disagree with that view. Person A (you) produces evidence to back up their claims, (my brother met a person from Italy who was collecting €5,000.00 a day in children's allowance is not evidence of anything other than a vivid immigration of someone) then person B produces evidence and it goes back and forward just like that. It's been used for a few thousand years to learn about ideas and concepts. It also requires an open mind otherwise it goes like most threads on this site, right up a Dodo's hole.


  • #169
    guyjohn
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 101 ✭✭guyjohn


    Pro Hoc Vice wrote: »
    You don't really understand how debate works do you. It's really simple, a person (you) puts forward a view, another person (me or others) disagree with that view. Person A (you) produces evidence to back up their claims, (my brother met a person from Italy who was collecting €5,000.00 a day in children's allowance is not evidence of anything other than a vivid immigration of someone) then person B produces evidence and it goes back and forward just like that. It's been used for a few thousand years to learn about ideas and concepts. It also requires an open mind otherwise it goes like most threads on this site, right up a Dodo's hole.

    I am not sure why the focus on just EU citizens .The immigration law does need to be more controlled with non EU.
    The fact is there is fraud in government,welfare,asylum and immigration.
    To deny it does not exist is foolish.

    Whats a dodo sir ?


  • #170
    sillyoulfool
    Closed Accounts Posts: 587 ✭✭✭sillyoulfool


    guyjohn wrote: »
    Some employers do not check the persons status or ignore it.

    Rubbish!


  • #171
    Pro Hoc Vice
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,087 ✭✭✭Pro Hoc Vice


    guyjohn wrote: »
    I am not sure why the focus on just EU citizens .The immigration law does need to be more controlled with non EU.
    The fact is there is fraud in government,welfare,asylum and immigration.
    To deny it does not exist is foolish.

    Whats a dodo sir ?

    I have never denied fraud or issues in any of the areas you mention. I am not concentrating on EU just responding to posts.

    A Dodo http://www.oum.ox.ac.uk/learning/htmls/dodo.htm


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  • #172
    Pro Hoc Vice
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,087 ✭✭✭Pro Hoc Vice


    sillyoulfool wrote: »
    Rubbish!

    I hate to agree with Guyjohn, but you would be surprised at the number of people who do not check immigration status or blindly accept a non EEA person has a right to work.

    It is of course a criminal offence.


  • #173
    Scofflaw
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,283 ✭✭✭✭Scofflaw


    guyjohn wrote: »
    What smells ?? The gov is worried about the pension time bomb .I saw a draft only .
    Pay me I will get evidence I don't work for nothing.

    Nope. We're at the "put up or shut up" stage now. You can either provide evidence, or drop the claim. People can let me know one way or the other.

    moderately,
    Scofflaw


  • #174
    MrWard
    Registered Users Posts: 74 ✭✭MrWard


    sillyoulfool wrote: »
    Rubbish!

    Who is employing these folks then?
    An estimated 30,000 undocumented people including families and children live and work in Ireland. The Migrants Rights Centre Ireland says

    http://www.thejournal.ie/readme/column-im-living-as-an-undocumented-migrant-in-ireland-831653-May2013/
    UP to 10,000 foreign nationals are working here illegally after entering the country on bogus student visas, the Irish Independent has learned.

    They represent almost one in three of the students who come here from outside the EU.

    http://www.independent.ie/lifestyle/education/10000-working-here-illegally-on-bogus-foreign-student-visas-26631618.html

    Evidently, quite a number of employers overlook or don't ask for valid work permits.


  • #175
    alastair
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,309 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    MrWard wrote: »
    http://www.independent.ie/lifestyle/education/10000-working-here-illegally-on-bogus-foreign-student-visas-26631618.html

    Evidently, quite a number of employers overlook or don't ask for valid work permits.

    Anyone on a non-EU student visa is entitled to work 20 hours a week in term, and full-time out of term, and employers aren't required to check that they're adhering to their visa restrictions. So the onus is on the employee in those cases, not the employer.


  • #176
    guyjohn
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 101 ✭✭guyjohn


    The article below exposes language schools for fraud .

    http://www.independent.ie/lifestyle/education/immigration-authorities-launch-visa-crackdown-on-schools-30190044.html

    Not mentioned yet are sham marriages see link below

    http://www.thejournal.ie/sham-marriages-crackdown-ireland-1007129-Jul2013/

    This article exposes welfare fraud among EU citizens.

    http://www.thejournal.ie/airport-and-rent-inspectors-will-be-used-to-combat-welfare-fraud-408162-Apr2012/


  • #177
    guyjohn
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 101 ✭✭guyjohn


    sillyoulfool wrote: »
    Rubbish!

    Suggest you look at the links that have been posted after your claim before you blindly make a statement.


  • #178
    guyjohn
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 101 ✭✭guyjohn


    Pro Hoc Vice wrote: »
    I hate to agree with Guyjohn, but you would be surprised at the number of people who do not check immigration status or blindly accept a non EEA person has a right to work.

    It is of course a criminal offence.

    Why do you hate to agree with me ??


  • #179
    guyjohn
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 101 ✭✭guyjohn


    alastair wrote: »
    Maybe you might consider just not posting inflammatory nonsense in the first place?

    The links posted are hardly nonsense .


  • #180
    guyjohn
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 101 ✭✭guyjohn


    Scofflaw wrote: »
    Nope. We're at the "put up or shut up" stage now. You can either provide evidence, or drop the claim. People can let me know one way or the other.

    moderately,
    Scofflaw

    When I do post links people refuse to believe them.


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  • #181
    djpbarry
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,104 ✭✭✭✭djpbarry


    AlekSmart wrote: »
    Arriving and Claiming is a well trodden road for many arrivals into Ireland...You most certainly can Claim....that does not,of course,assure a successful outcome,but It does allow for the introduction of enough "Grey Areas" usually catered for by the Supplementary Welfare Allowance Scheme and it's myriad elements...
    If it were the case that significant numbers of immigrants were arriving in Ireland and successfully claiming supplementary payments, then there should have been a noticeable increase in the number of supplementary payments issued post the 2004 enlargement of the EU. But, no such increase was recorded. In fact, the number of supplementary payments steadily decreased until the onset of the crash in 08/09, after which another steady fall was recorded.
    AlekSmart wrote: »
    Like many such byzantine schemes,the key tends to be in identifying a lophole and exploiting it.....however as Nodin points out NOBODY can arrive and claim....can't be done...impossible.

    However ,once a suitably qualified and astute advisor gets sight of the word,EXEMPTION,it then demands full exploitation......Never happens though,I'm told....
    So how often does this happen? Merely stating something is a possibility does not mean there is a problem to be addressed.


  • #182
    alastair
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,309 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    guyjohn wrote: »
    The links posted are hardly nonsense .

    Given that you misrepresent the few links you do provide in the heady cocktail of erroneous and anecdotal claims, the nonsense still stands.


  • #183
    djpbarry
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,104 ✭✭✭✭djpbarry


    guyjohn wrote: »
    You can if you are clever persistent and know a loophole. There was a program on TV about Roma gypsies in the UK. They just stay there to pass the HR test…
    The UK doesn’t have a HR test. So either the TV program you’re referring to doesn’t exist, or, you weren’t paying very close attention to it.
    guyjohn wrote: »
    The number of PPS allocations this year in Ireland , Romania is the third highest !
    Roma ≠ Romanian.
    guyjohn wrote: »
    Seeking work in Ireland is rather a difficult task at present or maybe you disagree with this too !!
    There are no jobs available in Ireland that those outside Ireland might consider applying for? How about all of these?


  • #184
    djpbarry
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,104 ✭✭✭✭djpbarry


    guyjohn wrote: »
    The article below exposes language schools for fraud .

    http://www.independent.ie/lifestyle/education/immigration-authorities-launch-visa-crackdown-on-schools-30190044.html
    No, it alleges fraud:
    There was no detail about the allegations but a weekend newspaper report questioned practices in a number of English language schools, such as the level of attendance by students.


  • #185
    guyjohn
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 101 ✭✭guyjohn


    djpbarry wrote: »
    No, it alleges fraud:

    The article does say they are being investigated we must assume there is a good reason.


  • #186
    guyjohn
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 101 ✭✭guyjohn


    djpbarry wrote: »
    The UK doesn’t have a HR test. So either the TV program you’re referring to doesn’t exist, or, you weren’t paying very close attention to it.
    Roma ≠ Romanian.
    There are no jobs available in Ireland that those outside Ireland might consider applying for? How about all of these?

    The link to the channel 5 program.

    http://www.channel5.com/shows/gypsies-on-benefits-proud/episodes/gypsies-on-benefits-proud

    HR test link in the UK
    .
    http://www.turn2us.org.uk/information__resources/benefits/migrants/habitual_residence_test_hrt.aspx#whatbens


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  • #187
    MrWard
    Registered Users Posts: 74 ✭✭MrWard


    alastair wrote: »
    Anyone on a non-EU student visa is entitled to work 20 hours a week in term, and full-time out of term, and employers aren't required to check that they're adhering to their visa restrictions. So the onus is on the employee in those cases, not the employer.

    The onus is on the employer to ensure that the non EU student has permission to work in the state and that they don't work over 20 hours during term. If the employer is found to be employing illegals or employing a non EU student for more than 20 hours per week during term, he could face fines and or a jail sentence.


  • #188
    alastair
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,309 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    guyjohn wrote: »
    The link to the channel 5 program.

    http://www.channel5.com/shows/gypsies-on-benefits-proud/episodes/gypsies-on-benefits-proud

    So; it's B - you weren't paying close attention to it.


  • #189
    MrWard
    Registered Users Posts: 74 ✭✭MrWard


    alastair wrote: »
    Given that you misrepresent the few links you do provide in the heady cocktail of erroneous and anecdotal claims, the nonsense still stands.

    Speaking of erroneous claims. You just claimed that it's up to the employee to ensure that they have permission to work in the state and that no responsibility lies with the employer to ensure their employees have valid work permission. You couldn't be more wrong.


  • #190
    guyjohn
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 101 ✭✭guyjohn


    alastair wrote: »
    Given that you misrepresent the few links you do provide in the heady cocktail of erroneous and anecdotal claims, the nonsense still stands.

    Show me


  • #191
    djpbarry
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,104 ✭✭✭✭djpbarry


    guyjohn wrote: »
    The article does say they are being investigated we must assume there is a good reason.
    Ok, so language schools suspected of breaking the law are being investigated on suspicion of breaking the law. So what's the problem?
    guyjohn wrote: »
    The link to the channel 5 program.

    http://www.channel5.com/shows/gypsies-on-benefits-proud/episodes/gypsies-on-benefits-proud
    What does this have to do with immigration to Ireland?


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  • #192
    guyjohn
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 101 ✭✭guyjohn


    alastair wrote: »
    So; it's B - you weren't paying close attention to it.

    Whats B


  • #193
    guyjohn
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 101 ✭✭guyjohn


    djpbarry wrote: »
    Ok, so language schools suspected of breaking the law are being investigated on suspicion of breaking the law. So what's the problem?
    What does this have to do with immigration to Ireland?

    I am simply showing links to prove fraud exists.

    Nothing you stated the program was made up.

    Romanians have the third highest applications for PPS numbers in Ireland however.

    http://www.welfare.ie/en/Pages/Personal-Public-Service-Number-Statistics-on-Numbers-Issued.aspx


  • #194
    djpbarry
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,104 ✭✭✭✭djpbarry


    guyjohn wrote: »
    I am simply showing links to prove fraud exists.
    First of all, the link you provided proves no such thing. Secondly, nobody is arguing that fraud does not exist.
    guyjohn wrote: »
    Nothing...
    In which case I will disregard it.


  • #195
    Pro Hoc Vice
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,087 ✭✭✭Pro Hoc Vice


    guyjohn wrote: »
    I am simply showing links to prove fraud exists.

    Nothing you stated the program was made up.

    Romanians have the third highest applications for PPS numbers in Ireland however.

    http://www.welfare.ie/en/Pages/Personal-Public-Service-Number-Statistics-on-Numbers-Issued.aspx

    They can have the higest numbers of applications for PPS numbers it means nothing as a PPS number in itself gives no rights. To be honest I feel like I'm banging my ****ing head against a brick wall it's ****ing simple PPS numer means nothing it's like quoting that the higest number applying for Tesco club cards it gives no tight to work or SW by itself. It does not in it self prove fraud it does not in it's self prove any particular group is claiming something they are not entitled to.

    Is there fraud in SW YES are people claiming things they are not entitled to YES. If a person is aware of fraud should they report it YES. Is there any evidence that the fraud is more likely to be committed by a non national NO.


  • #196
    alastair
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,309 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    Pro Hoc Vice wrote: »
    Is there fraud in SW YES are people claiming things they are not entitled to YES. If a person is aware of fraud should they report it YES. Is there any evidence that the fraud is more likely to be committed by a non national NO.

    and to add...

    ... Is there unlimited immigration in play in Ireland? NO. Is there uncontrolled abuse of existing immigration legislation? NO.


  • #197
    alastair
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,309 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    guyjohn wrote: »
    Whats B

    Answer B (of option A or B)


  • #198
    guyjohn
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 101 ✭✭guyjohn


    Pro Hoc Vice wrote: »
    They can have the higest numbers of applications for PPS numbers it means nothing as a PPS number in itself gives no rights. To be honest I feel like I'm banging my ****ing head against a brick wall it's ****ing simple PPS numer means nothing it's like quoting that the higest number applying for Tesco club cards it gives no tight to work or SW by itself. It does not in it self prove fraud it does not in it's self prove any particular group is claiming something they are not entitled to.

    Is there fraud in SW YES are people claiming things they are not entitled to YES. If a person is aware of fraud should they report it YES. Is there any evidence that the fraud is more likely to be committed by a non national NO.

    Unfortunately no detailed information exists as to why they apply for PPS numbers . We must assume there is a reason, the obvious that its for welfare, work or for children to attend schools etc. ? I doubt if they just apply for something to do.
    The PPS numbers are an indication .


  • #199
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    guyjohn wrote: »
    The link to the channel 5 program.

    http://www.channel5.com/shows/gypsies-on-benefits-proud/episodes/gypsies-on-benefits-proud

    HR test link in the UK
    .
    http://www.turn2us.org.uk/information__resources/benefits/migrants/habitual_residence_test_hrt.aspx#whatbens


    Irrelevant to here
    Romanians have the third highest applications for PPS numbers in Ireland
    however.

    http://www.welfare.ie/en/Pages/Perso...rs-Issued.aspx

    And your point?


  • #200
    Pro Hoc Vice
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,087 ✭✭✭Pro Hoc Vice


    guyjohn wrote: »
    Unfortunately no detailed information exists as to why they apply for PPS numbers . We must assume there is a reason, the obvious that its for welfare, work or for children to attend schools etc. ? I doubt if they just apply for something to do.

    Yes for children to enter school, to get a driving licence, to be treated at a hospital, to buy medicine at a pharmacy, to work and pay taxes, they have a right to set up a business or work for someone. But unless they satisfy the HR test they can not claim SW.

    So as you say "Unfortunately no detailed information exists as to why they apply for PPS numbers" therefore admitting you have made stuff up.


  • #201
    Scofflaw
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,283 ✭✭✭✭Scofflaw


    guyjohn wrote: »
    When I do post links people refuse to believe them.

    That's because they're not actually evidence pertaining to the scale or seriousness of any of the issues you raise. All of those can be political reactions to evidence-free concerns, or writeups by journalists who know what sells papers or attracts viewers. You've also offered suppositions such as "I doubt they apply for PPS numbers for something to do", which mean nothing because they're just based on your opinion, which is what you're being asked to back up with facts.

    You need some hard data that takes your case beyond the anecdotal. So far you have offered none.

    Just to be clear where we are - you don't get to go on posting on the thread until you provide such data. This thread is now on life support.

    moderately,
    Scofflaw


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