drive a pre 1980 car full time

whiteonblu · 24-07-2012 11:17am #1

Can you drive a pre 1980 car full time and does it need nct if you do. will the tax and insurance be more expensive than if only driven occasionally

ianobrien · 24-07-2012 11:48am

LIGHTNING wrote: »

Tax will be 52, insurance will be 125-250 or thereabouts. If your thinking driving a classic will be cheaper than running a modern car then your in for a surprise.

Plus, most of the insurance companies dont allow you to use the car going to and from work, it's "social, domestic and pleasure" only. You will need to have another car to go to and from work......

I know that with my classic insurnace, I must own a "non classic" car and details of same must be supplied. Most other insurnace companies I imagine are the same.

whiteonblu · 24-07-2012 12:00pm

ianobrien wrote: »

Plus, most of the insurance companies dont allow you to use the car going to and from work, it's "social, domestic and pleasure" only. You will need to have another car to go to and from work......

I know that with my classic insurnace, I must own a "non classic" car and details of same must be supplied. Most other insurnace companies I imagine are the same.

so you cannot drive it full time under any insurance? i am just curious as to the rules

Bearcat · 24-07-2012 12:09pm

You can but you'll be charged standard insurance rates. I would not drive a classic as a daily unless you have an innate knowledge of the car and mechanics. You will also need to be a die hard and passionate about the brand. That 52euro tax can be gobbled up quick re parts and consumables etc so that 1566 top tax you saved not buying the luxo modern barge can easily be eaten into.

That said I used to have classics for years and enjoyed them.....as a daily no....especially in the winter......

My 2 cents

BronsonTB · 24-07-2012 12:09pm

If you take out a normal Insurance policy (NOT classic) you can drive it everyday. But most Ins companies won't cover such an old car for everyday driving. AXA might still, they did 2 years ago when I had a capri for everyday driving.
If they do they'll look for an engineers report to sign off it's roadworthy.

NCT doesn't currently apply to pre-80.

JoeySully · 24-07-2012 12:20pm

No that not it either

Cheap classic insurance, for "most" insurance companies require that the car not be used daily and for commuting. "Most" also require you to set a limited mileage of 2000 miles, some are more, some have no mileage limits.

What you require is a normal insurance policy for an ould car. It will cost you just a much as a new car I suspect but wont have any of the stipulations of a classic car policy. Now all you need to do is find a company that will do this for you. Get the phone book out and start ringing I think

whiteonblu · 24-07-2012 12:43pm

Thanks guys. i was curious not going to do it

colm_mcm · 24-07-2012 12:45pm

moved to classic cars

valleyoftheunos · 24-07-2012 1:05pm

My Old man drives a '79 Mercedes 240D every day, not sure what sort of policy he has on it but he is retired so the work aspect wouldn't be an issue.

The car is solid as a rock and has never given more than minor trouble.

I also know a '69 MG used as a daily driver around the city, short journey's only but economical as a city car and only minor trouble given.

It can be done but choice of car is essential to success. anything too exotic or fragile would be asking for trouble.

Victor Meldrew · 24-07-2012 1:11pm

valleyoftheunos wrote: »

My Old man drives a '79 Mercedes 240D every day, not sure what sort of policy he has on it but he is retired so the work aspect wouldn't be an issue.

Probably one of the few cars of that age you could do this with and not go mad.

and even there, it would be a bit of a dog re motorway / foul weather driving when compared to a modern car.

At least being Diesel, it will start when it is damp out...

dr.fuzzenstein · 24-07-2012 2:25pm

Classic insurance will require at least the use of a modern car.
When I had my company car I ran several classics, but the mileage is limited and it's not meant to be used daily.
Regular insurance won't touch any car older than 15 years, so by the time you do find the one company that will insure it, be prepared to pay big bucks, since they will most likely use this as an excuse to royally screw you. Irish insurance companies hate anything that isn't a Corolla or Focus and older than 5 years.
If you do get insurance, you will end up using what is basically a very old second hand car as your daily driver. Expect a lot things to go wrong very quickly and cost you a lot of money. Unless you bought a minter. And if you do, do you really want to bean that up and down the road every day? You'll have it wrecked in no time.
Which brings us to the safety aspect.
Modern cars have 4 disc brakes with ABS in 225 tires, traction control, many more horses than any old car and if you do crash, chances are you'll walk away.
On a classic you'll have 10p's for brake discs at the front and drums at the back. Your crumple zone is your head and some cars won't have any seatbelts, or at least won't have them in the rear. I know my MKIII Cortina didn't.

And last, but not least:
If you use a classic every day and you're keeping it in the drive, you will have nothing but a puddle of rust left in about 6 months.
Classics are meant to be pampered, kept in a dry garage (the BIGGEST Irish car sin, let her rot to fcuk in the drive, ah be grand) and only taken out on a nice sunny day for special occasions. That way they will remain special and the Focus gets the daily abuse. It's built for it. And it will be cheaper in the long run.

Unless you have a heated garage with a lift and stacks of tools, a mechanic at your disposal, oodles of cash and a tow-truck and backup car.

valleyoftheunos · 24-07-2012 3:10pm

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

Classic insurance will require at least the use of a modern car.
When I had my company car I ran several classics, but the mileage is limited and it's not meant to be used daily.
Regular insurance won't touch any car older than 15 years, so by the time you do find the one company that will insure it, be prepared to pay big bucks, since they will most likely use this as an excuse to royally screw you. Irish insurance companies hate anything that isn't a Corolla or Focus and older than 5 years.
If you do get insurance, you will end up using what is basically a very old second hand car as your daily driver. Expect a lot things to go wrong very quickly and cost you a lot of money. Unless you bought a minter. And if you do, do you really want to bean that up and down the road every day? You'll have it wrecked in no time.
Which brings us to the safety aspect.
Modern cars have 4 disc brakes with ABS in 225 tires, traction control, many more horses than any old car and if you do crash, chances are you'll walk away.
On a classic you'll have 10p's for brake discs at the front and drums at the back. Your crumple zone is your head and some cars won't have any seatbelts, or at least won't have them in the rear. I know my MKIII Cortina didn't.

And last, but not least:
If you use a classic every day and you're keeping it in the drive, you will have nothing but a puddle of rust left in about 6 months.
Classics are meant to be pampered, kept in a dry garage (the BIGGEST Irish car sin, let her rot to fcuk in the drive, ah be grand) and only taken out on a nice sunny day for special occasions. That way they will remain special and the Focus gets the daily abuse. It's built for it. And it will be cheaper in the long run.

Unless you have a heated garage with a lift and stacks of tools, a mechanic at your disposal, oodles of cash and a tow-truck and backup car.

Aside from the issues of insurance I don't think any of that is necessarily true. It depends very much on the car involved and the sort of driving done. My own Daily driver isn't pre 1980 but it isn't far off it and its a lovely drive, I drive it carefully and gently, I don't "bean it up and down the road every day" and as a result it isn't "wrecked".

If you buy a pre '80 Morris Marina or a Lancia Beta you can of course expect a world of hurt, these cars and many like them my have retro cache but they were lemons when they were new, never mind now that they are 35 years old.

Similarly if you are going to do some serious commuting you would be foolish to plan on doing it in a pre '80 but that is more about recognising the limitations of such cars rather than their age specifically. Cars back then were less safe, less reliable and less comfortable but that doesn't automatically make them unsuitable daily drivers, it depends on what sort of daily driving you do.

Some classics are for pampering but they don't all have to be, they can be kept in the drive and used day in day out and it doesn't have to break the bank.

valleyoftheunos · 24-07-2012 3:13pm

Victor Meldrew wrote: »

Probably one of the few cars of that age you could do this with and not go mad.

and even there, it would be a bit of a dog re motorway / foul weather driving when compared to a modern car.

At least being Diesel, it will start when it is damp out...

Its not as bad as all that, it will cruise along happily at 100 - 120 kph on the motorway. I find it quite loud and wouldn't want to take it on long trips but the Auld Fella drives all over the country in it very happily.

alastair · 24-07-2012 6:41pm

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

Modern cars have 4 disc brakes with ABS in 225 tires, traction control, many more horses than any old car and if you do crash, chances are you'll walk away.
On a classic you'll have 10p's for brake discs at the front and drums at the back. Your crumple zone is your head and some cars won't have any seatbelts, or at least won't have them in the rear. I know my MKIII Cortina didn't.

My '73 classic has disc brakes all around, no ABS, but respectable dual circuit braking nonetheless. It's got inertia reel seatbelts up front, side impact bars, crumple zones, and I run it on wider, modern tyres. You should have bought a Volvo!

dr.fuzzenstein · 24-07-2012 8:15pm

alastair wrote: »

My '73 classic has disc brakes all around, no ABS, but respectable dual circuit braking nonetheless. It's got inertia reel seatbelts up front, side impact bars, crumple zones, and I run it on wider, modern tyres. You should have bought a Volvo!

They're boxy, but they're good!:p
But I just fell for that coke-bottle styling, vinyl roof, even the almost leather interior looked cool and the charm of that 2 liter Pinto engine with a double-barrel Weber carb and a three speed auto was too much to resist. So I emptied my bank account and vastly overpaid for my 70's dream.
What I didn't bargain for that 100 km/h was a challenge and anything over required the use of nappies.:D it needed some suspension work to say the least. And breaking was like asking the car to suddenly pick a direction at random and veer off that way rather sharpish.
I miss the old girl.
But those Saab 900 Turbos look good, maybe next year...

hi5 · 24-07-2012 9:22pm

I had a 73' merc 350sl, I drove it everyday ,no problems:) although the rear end could be a bit skittish in the wet:D

type85 · 24-07-2012 9:24pm

whiteonblu wrote: »

Can you drive a pre 1980 car full time and does it need nct if you do. will the tax and insurance be more expensive than if only driven occasionally

the simple answer is yes you can, tax is currently 52 euro, no you do not need to nct it, and carol nash will insure it as a primary car

ireland.carolenash.com

come on and join us

unkel · 24-07-2012 11:58pm

Classic insurance does not have any hard and fast rules

I had my classic insured as a daily driver (max 6,000 miles per year iirc) based on the fact that I was a named driver on my wife's policy on her car

I had no other car / policy in my own name

The premium was €325 fully comp for a 4.7l 310BHP Porsche

Like many have said, don't run a classic car to save money (on tax and insurance). It most likely will not work. There are always exceptions of course...

Dades · 25-07-2012 11:32am

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

And last, but not least:
If you use a classic every day and you're keeping it in the drive, you will have nothing but a puddle of rust left in about 6 months.
Classics are meant to be pampered, kept in a dry garage (the BIGGEST Irish car sin, let her rot to fcuk in the drive, ah be grand) and only taken out on a nice sunny day for special occasions. That way they will remain special and the Focus gets the daily abuse. It's built for it. And it will be cheaper in the long run.

Unless you have a heated garage with a lift and stacks of tools, a mechanic at your disposal, oodles of cash and a tow-truck and backup car.

Not sure I agree with this. A classic used regularly will be a much happier classic.

Granted, not for huge commutes, or parked on the M50... but for a reasonable journey the *right* classic would be well able. I've commuted in both a Fiat Spider and a 72 SL to work at various points for months at a time. I'm convinced the regular use kept them trouble free.

And I particularly don't think classics should be the preserve of people who have dry garages. This isn't a luxury open to many.

dr.fuzzenstein · 25-07-2012 11:42am

Dades wrote: »

Not sure I agree with this. A classic used regularly will be a much happier classic.

Granted, not for huge commutes, or parked on the M50... but for a reasonable journey the *right* classic would be well able. I've commuted in both a Fiat Spider and a 72 SL to work at various points for months at a time. I'm convinced the regular use kept them trouble free.

And I particularly don't think classics should be the preserve of people who have dry garages. This isn't a luxury open to many.

I had to get rid of the Cortina because I didn't have a garage at the time and after a few months the patches started to bubble up.
I see an MG in Limerick, that's been sitting in a drive for several years now, it's gone from white to brown.
70's cars especially are very prone to the tin worm, because steel got thinner, box sections more complex, rubber seals weren't great back then and haven't improved over time. Also, a lot of steal back then was bought cheaply in the East.
Any car from that era, it doesn't matter if they're British, German, French or Italian will rust for it's respective country.
And since we're now using salt in the winter, things haven't gotten easier.
In the 00's many people used their new-found income to buy classic cars, while at the same time converting their garage to that all-important 5th bedroom or keeping €200 worth of crap in it.
I'd say that Ireland from 00 to 08 was responsible for the destruction of more classic cars than 40 years of banger racing in the UK.
That and converting them to daysul, because they're now chaep to run.

porsche boy · 25-07-2012 11:47am

It's not a classic yet but I'm running my '87 Porsche 944 as my daily, have been for most of the year. My tax is a high, but not that much higher than the wifes in her 1.9tdi. Fuel is bad but I dont do that much mileage and I dont push her hard.
For me it's all about the fact that it's not something seen every day, it's different.

dr.fuzzenstein · 25-07-2012 12:07pm

I think a lot of classics from the 80's onwards are a lot better for daily (ab)use.
Rustproofing got better, the steel got better and a lot of the mechanicals where less fragile.
I had a 1984 Mercedes W123 200 petrol that was perfectly alright for the daily drive, I actually used two different ones for driving to work from Ennis to Shannon every day in the 90's. Of course back then they weren't classics, merely bangers. And rust was definitely an issue with them. And I did not make it to work on a few occasions.:D

DaSchmo · 25-07-2012 1:45pm

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

I think a lot of classics from the 80's onwards are a lot better for daily (ab)use.
Rustproofing got better, the steel got better and a lot of the mechanicals where less fragile.
I had a 1984 Mercedes W123 200 petrol that was perfectly alright for the daily drive, I actually used two different ones for driving to work from Ennis to Shannon every day in the 90's. Of course back then they weren't classics, merely bangers. And rust was definitely an issue with them. And I did not make it to work on a few occasions.:D

I bought an '83 capri a couple of weeks ago and have been using it as my daily driver.

Pros:

Engine (2.0 pinto) hasn't skipped a beat
MPG not too bad either (33 mixed motorway and city for first full tank)
Looks like a serious badass

Cons:

Dodgy handling in the wet, that goes for all capris though
Cringe every time it rains - currently out the front of my house and I can almost see the rot spreading if I stare at it for long enough - am moving asap to somewhere with a garage / underground carpark
Needs new steering rack, car shakes badly going faster than 100kmh

dr.fuzzenstein · 25-07-2012 3:01pm

^^^
Sounds all very familiar to me.
With you on the 2.0 Pinto, it's a seriously nice engine and if you feel so inclined it's easy enough to tickle a few more horses out of it.
Which in an old Ford means first uprating the suspension and brakes, they're scary enough with the car in standard tune.
Would you consider a carport? At least better than nothing.

Cienciano · 25-07-2012 4:00pm

A lot depends on what milage you'll put up. Some peoples commute to work is 5km each way, some peoples is 100km each way with regular trips around the country thrown in.

alastair · 25-07-2012 7:04pm

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

They're boxy, but they're good!:p.

Not all of them (boxy that is)!

dr.fuzzenstein · 25-07-2012 7:14pm

alastair wrote: »

Not all of them (boxy that is)!

And it would seem, indestructible:

http://www.autoblog.com/2007/10/26/man-with-2-6-million-mile-volvo-p1800-aims-for-3-million/

Do-more · 25-07-2012 9:51pm

I don't know what the statistics are but the average age of the car fleet must be considerably older here in Sweden compared to Ireland. The same probably goes for many other countries in Europe I've certainly seen lots of older daily drivers on trips to France and Spain.

I'd hazard a guess that the very late introduction of the National car test in Ireland is a major factor. Also despite the historical high cost of cars in Ireland a large portion of the public maintain their cars with a bare minimum of servicing.

Their is no VRT on cars here so in the past they have been considerably cheaper to buy new than in Ireland but there isn't the same turnover of cars here people keep their cars for longer and generally keep them well serviced, also cars retain their value better here.

Another thing that I would say has a big influence is the car tax trap where in Ireland at a certain point in a car's life cycle a years road tax can cost more than the value of the car, that doesn't happen here as car tax is generally pretty cheap and as said before cars retain their value better.

The state of many Irish road surfaces over the last 40 years probably has a major influence as well.

I live just outside a town of approx. 20,000 population and there is an ocean of older cars in daily use. Not all Saabs and Volvos either, off the top of my head I regularly see at least 5 Mk 1 Audi 100's, there are 3 Mk 1 Granada Coupes unrestored and driven daily and a couple of Mk 2 Granada's, loads of Mk 2 Golfs and Jetta's and a few Mk 1 Golfs lots of other stuff as well, here is a photo of a '79 Opel Kadett I was behind on the way to the supermarket today, I see it regularly and he drives it on, I was hardly able to catch up to him to get a snap.

On a quick glance around the supermarket car park there was a Mk 2 Opel Ascona, a Mid 80's Honda Prelude and a slightly newer Accord along with the usual selection of Volvo 240's, 740's and 850's.

Tigger · 25-07-2012 9:54pm

My Bimmer has all the toys and I keep it nice

However I could open a garage with the tools in the boot and she does 19mpg if you take it handy and about 14 if you don't

shawnee · 26-07-2012 9:31am

Do-more wrote: »

I don't know what the statistics are but the average age of the car fleet must be considerably older here in Sweden compared to Ireland. The same probably goes for many other countries in Europe I've certainly seen lots of older daily drivers on trips to France and Spain.

I'd hazard a guess that the very late introduction of the National car test in Ireland is a major factor. Also despite the historical high cost of cars in Ireland a large portion of the public maintain their cars with a bare minimum of servicing.

Their is no VRT on cars here so in the past they have been considerably cheaper to buy new than in Ireland but there isn't the same turnover of cars here people keep their cars for longer and generally keep them well serviced, also cars retain their value better here.

Another thing that I would say has a big influence is the car tax trap where in Ireland at a certain point in a car's life cycle a years road tax can cost more than the value of the car, that doesn't happen here as car tax is generally pretty cheap and as said before cars retain their value better.

The state of many Irish road surfaces over the last 40 years probably has a major influence as well.

I live just outside a town of approx. 20,000 population and there is an ocean of older cars in daily use. Not all Saabs and Volvos either, off the top of my head I regularly see at least 5 Mk 1 Audi 100's, there are 3 Mk 1 Granada Coupes unrestored and driven daily and a couple of Mk 2 Granada's, loads of Mk 2 Golfs and Jetta's and a few Mk 1 Golfs lots of other stuff as well, here is a photo of a '79 Opel Kadett I was behind on the way to the supermarket today, I see it regularly and he drives it on, I was hardly able to catch up to him to get a snap.

On a quick glance around the supermarket car park there was a Mk 2 Opel Ascona, a Mid 80's Honda Prelude and a slightly newer Accord along with the usual selection of Volvo 240's, 740's and 850's.

Thanks , seems strange that we are all european... no wonder we are broke... with all these 08/09 etc on finance.:p

piston · 26-07-2012 9:41am

All I know is that the only roadworthy car I have at the moment is my 1995 Peugeot 205 and when I tried to price around on the insurance front last month, virtually every insurance company tut-tutted and told me such an old car is too high risk due to it's age (which is newer than the Ryanair fleet! What is the NCT for?) and either wouldn't quote me or quoted me stupid prices. God know what sort of response I would get if I'd enquired about regular insurance on a Cortina or something.

It annoys me as I regularly see 2 or 3 year old cars with bald tyres and lights not working whereas I have always maintained my vehicles to a high standard. I would guess that the genuine classics are probably the best maintained cars on the road in many cases as the owners are genuine enthusiasts.

I would be quite happy to drive some 1970s cars everyday, especially a MK1 Golf, Peugeot 504 or old Merc, but be very liberal with the Waxoyl application before winter sets in!

drive a pre 1980 car full time

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