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No written reference

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  • 06-06-2014 11:06pm
    #1
    Teach30
    Registered Users Posts: 539 ✭✭✭


    Has anyone experienced this problem? My principal does not issue written references, most jobs look for a written reference so I really don't know what to do.

    Will it look very unprofessional not to have one? She says she prefers to talk over the phone. Really don't know how best to approach this.

    Any help appreciated.


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    #2
    evolving_doors
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11,812 ✭✭✭✭evolving_doors


    The thing is... every applicant will have a referee of some sort and I'll bet a phone call would still be made in spite of having a written reference. I'd say maybe just write "Principal prefers to be contacted by phone" and let the rest of your CV do the talking.


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    #3
    linguist
    Registered Users Posts: 615 ✭✭✭linguist


    I have encountered this and as Armelodie says you can indicate it on your CV. It may be that a member of staff, preferably someone senior like the DP or similar, would be prepared to give you a reference in a more personal capacity and in that case you can put them down on your CV as a second reference and maybe enclose their written reference. Anyone else have thoughts on this?


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    #4
    gaiscioch
    Registered Users Posts: 1,530 ✭✭✭gaiscioch


    linguist wrote: »
    It may be that a member of staff, preferably someone senior like the DP or similar, would be prepared to give you a reference

    This. One of my principal referees was a deputy principal because it was she who dealt with me every day and the school was structured in such a way that I rarely encountered the principal. That dp was my primary referee. In fact, now that I think on it at the start both of my primary referees were deputy principals (the other became the principal subsequently).


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    #5
    TheDriver
    Registered Users Posts: 12,393 ✭✭✭✭TheDriver


    Written references aren't worth the paper they're written on, verbal/phone references much safer


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    #6
    Teach30
    Registered Users Posts: 539 ✭✭✭Teach30


    Thanks for the advice. I will state in cover letter that principal can be contacted for reference.

    According to colleagues the principal tends to be misleading when spoken to, she does not like to give good references as it means she will lose a member of staff. I'm hoping the school I am applying for knows her tricks and can overlook this if it happens.

    If anyone has come across this before I would appreciate knowing how they dealt with it. My principal does not know I am applying for jobs elsewhere and I really hope that she will not look badly on me if it she does happen to get a phone call and reduce my hours as a result (she has been known to so this).

    Thanks for help/advice so far.


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    #7
    icebergiceberg
    Registered Users Posts: 223 ✭✭icebergiceberg


    Teach30 wrote: »
    Has anyone experienced this problem? My principal does not issue written references, most jobs look for a written reference so I really don't know what to do.

    Will it look very unprofessional not to have one? She says she prefers to talk over the phone. Really don't know how best to approach this.

    Any help appreciated.

    This is a tricky situation. I think it is quite important to have a written reference. Down the line, many years down the line, you might have a situation where you might need a reference from the principal. But what happens many years later on if the present principal or DP (or someone you worked under) retires or is replaced or is simply gone and is not there when they are needed? You may have nobody to bat for you.

    What would happen if you applied for a job abroad and your prospective employer saw a call me from a Principal instead of a written reference to give him/her something to go on? And your prospective employer had 20 other applicants with written references? What would he or she do? I know what I would do.


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    #8
    J.R.
    Registered Users Posts: 2,333 ✭✭✭J.R.


    Teach30 wrote: »
    Thanks for the advice. I will state in cover letter that principal can be contacted for reference.

    According to colleagues the principal tends to be misleading when spoken to, she does not like to give good references as it means she will lose a member of staff. I'm hoping the school I am applying for knows her tricks and can overlook this if it happens.

    If anyone has come across this before I would appreciate knowing how they dealt with it. My principal does not know I am applying for jobs elsewhere and I really hope that she will not look badly on me if it she does happen to get a phone call and reduce my hours as a result (she has been known to so this).

    Thanks for help/advice so far.

    If you are putting down a persons name as a referee then I think it's only courtesy to inform them of same so they will not be caught 'off guard' if called.

    Anybody I was ever referee for always asked me beforehand if it was okay to put my name and contact details on their CV.


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    #9
    TheDriver
    Registered Users Posts: 12,393 ✭✭✭✭TheDriver


    J.R. wrote: »
    If you are putting down a persons name as a referee then I think it's only courtesy to inform them of same so they will not be caught 'off guard' if called.

    Anybody I was ever referee for always asked me beforehand if it was okay to put my name and contact details on their CV.

    It is somewhat annoying when you get called for a reference for someone who has not asked first.


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    #10
    Teach30
    Registered Users Posts: 539 ✭✭✭Teach30


    I would obviously ask for permission first to put principal down as a referee, but the problem is she can't know I am looking for a job. As I said she does not take kindly to staff looking elsewhere.

    I have one other person on the BOM as a referee but my written reference is dated 2013. Would it be best to use this or just use the persons name and details? This person will not be in the school if another principal calls, which just adds to my woes.


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    #11
    Drag00n79
    Registered Users Posts: 2,746 ✭✭✭Drag00n79


    TheDriver wrote: »
    Written references aren't worth the paper they're written on, verbal/phone references much safer
    This


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    #12
    Crazyteacher
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,438 ✭✭✭Crazyteacher


    So many positions advertised are requesting written references this year. Surely principals realise that the referees need to be contacted personally from a child protection perspective .


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    #13
    seavill
    Registered Users Posts: 1,620 ✭✭✭seavill


    In what way do you mean from a child protection perspective?


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    #14
    Crazyteacher
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,438 ✭✭✭Crazyteacher


    They need to contact referees in the flesh so to speak to have a more current account of that person . For all they know references could have been written by the person themself or something may have happened since the reference was written.


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    #15
    aunt aggie
    Registered Users Posts: 454 ✭✭aunt aggie


    Having a small dilemma with a referee myself. I want to put down my second most recent employer as a referee because otherwise I'd only have one referee from my current position. I called the school several times but couldn't speak to the principal. They advised me that principal was aware of my request and suggested I email instead. Unfortunately its been several weeks and the principal hasn't responded.

    What should I do? I feel awkward putting this person as a referee without permission but I don't want to be overly pushy either.


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    #16
    Teach30
    Registered Users Posts: 539 ✭✭✭Teach30


    I have received an interview so delighted, but now I am unsure as to whether I should inform my principal or not. I know common courtesy would suggest I should but she may not be very impressed that I want to leave.

    Has anyone experienced this?

    Any help is really appreciated!


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    #17
    Crazyteacher
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,438 ✭✭✭Crazyteacher


    Ring and email again . It took ages to get through to my TP principal for a ref. Turned out she'd got my original message and dropped a reference in to the school office but forgot to tell me she was doing it . They don't mind usually it's just that they get busy and forget.


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    #18
    Crazyteacher
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,438 ✭✭✭Crazyteacher


    Teach30 wrote: »
    I have received an interview so delighted, but now I am unsure as to whether I should inform my principal or not. I know common courtesy would suggest I should but she may not be very impressed that I want to leave.

    Has anyone experienced this?

    Any help is really appreciated!



    That's a toughie . Is it for a better position/contract? I'm sure she won't mind. But do ask first.


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    #19
    Teach30
    Registered Users Posts: 539 ✭✭✭Teach30


    Crazyteacher wrote: »
    That's a toughie . Is it for a better position/contract? I'm sure she won't mind. But do ask first.

    Yes it's for a much better position, I'm currently non dept paid - no holidays, pension etc. job is far superior to what I am in but according to colleagues Principal will look very negatively on me looking elsewhere. She thinks I am in the job I am in forever but ultimately it will never be permanent.

    She is also the type to give another principal a bad reference so that she can keep me where I am - if you get me. I'm leaning on the side of telling her out of fear other schools will contact her, however there is no mention of her on my CV so they may not contact her at all.

    It's so complicated :-(


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    #20
    seavill
    Registered Users Posts: 1,620 ✭✭✭seavill


    I would not tell her if she is not down as a referee. If she is contacted and is a nasty person she will say something bad either way if age really wants you to stay.
    Why tell her something that may never happen. You may not get the job they may not even look at your referees etc.


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