Roebuck Road/Bird Avenue Clonskeagh.

AlekSmart · 28-03-2014 12:17am #1

Total Chaos reigning there this evening as the new road layout beds in....The "Old" layout featured One Left-Turn Lane into Bird Avenue,A Cycle Lane,and then another straight-ahead lane for traffic headed to Ranelagh/UCD....

The "NEW-IMPROVED!" Layout features a VERY wide Cycle Lane and a Single Traffic Lane for both Left Turning and Straight Ahead traffic....

Even curiouser is the placement of the Traffic Signal Detection Loops in the road surface....One Set is in the Cycle Lane and the other set is in the Solid Hatched Median,both locations where Traffic will not feature....

This will make for a very intersting situation in the morning peak tomorrow (Friday)...Anybody in and around Goatstown/Kilmacud will need a helicopter OR rise before dawn....

Does Irish Civic Administration have some sort of Pod Farm where cocoons of earnest young buffoons hang from branches awaiting the call of SDCC/DLRCC style organizations......?

Oasis_Dublin · 28-03-2014 4:48pm

Well the traffic for the last two evenings has been atrocious. If you thought getting the 11 through Ranelagh was a pain in the arse already, then good luck to you now

Idbatterim · 28-03-2014 5:21pm

what is it with the idiots who plan this stuff?! its as if they make changes for the sake of it! Id be tempted to use the bike lane as a left turn, moronic!

donvito99 · 28-03-2014 6:46pm

It's paradise for us cyclists though....

Middle Man · 28-03-2014 6:56pm

donvito99 wrote: »

It's paradise for us cyclists though....

...while the motorists pay through the nose!

Carawaystick · 29-03-2014 2:08am

Middle Man wrote: »

...while the motorists pay through the nose!

whether they cycle or not...

Sheldons Brain · 29-03-2014 2:09am

This junction is surrounded by green space, if it isn't wide enough for cycle lane of the required width then move the grass back a metre. Instead we get this sort of messing.

markpb · 29-03-2014 9:38am

As usual when something like this is introduced, we'll see the usual guff from the experts who all know more than the people who's job it is to design this stuff. They'll pronounce it ridiculous, the people who designed it stupid and probably claim that it'll never work, it'll cause accidents or traffic jams or some other end of the world whinge.

Left turning slip lanes are being removed all over the city because they're dangerous for cyclists. Not because some cyclists run red lights or fail to indicate (both of which might be true but aren't relevant to this) but because motorists fail to check their mirror and blind spot before turning left. Part of this is down to sloppy driving and part is because left slip lanes make motorists less aware that they're turning left into another lane or crossing a cyclists path. Removing the slip lane makes them more conscious of their left turn, makes them slow down and might even make them look at their mirror or indicate.

So yes, it might be mildly more inconvenient for some people but a) it's down to your own bad driving b) it might stop an accident from happening and c) it's one more step towards getting people to cycle which means one less car causing congestion on your route.

lamaq · 29-03-2014 10:01am

Well to review what I saw in the approx 14 years of that junction layout:

Cars too lazy to keep out of the bike lane when going straight.
Cars not giving way to cyclists as per the sign.
The 11 bus couldn't fit into the left turning lane so used to take up the bike lane.
Saw one instance where a driver wanted to change lane at the last second and thought the 3 cyclists should somehow get out of her way.
Cars not reading the signs and going straight on from the left only lane.
The road markings were at one point barley visible due to the councils policy of only repainting every five years. The paint was worn out because of cars driving in the bike lane.

But yeah, apart from all that it's an outrage...

Oasis_Dublin · 29-03-2014 11:32am

Realistically you could, at most, fit three sets of two cars where the lanes split at Bird Avenue. So it's not like that part of the Roebuck Road was a dual carriage from where it leaves the Goatstown Road. Last night, the traffic was back to normal. Now that could have been because people saw what Wednesday and Thursday were like and chose not to take that route into town, but nonetheless, the traffic wasn't bad.

I love the whole "motorists pay for everything line." What about adults who neither cycle nor walk? Or they entitled to use footpaths, or do they have to get passes from Merc drivers?!

Middle Man · 29-03-2014 1:56pm

markpb wrote: »

As usual when something like this is introduced, we'll see the usual guff from the experts who all know more than the people who's job it is to design this stuff. They'll pronounce it ridiculous, the people who designed it stupid and probably claim that it'll never work, it'll cause accidents or traffic jams or some other end of the world whinge.

Left turning slip lanes are being removed all over the city because they're dangerous for cyclists. Not because some cyclists run red lights or fail to indicate (both of which might be true but aren't relevant to this) but because motorists fail to check their mirror and blind spot before turning left. Part of this is down to sloppy driving and part is because left slip lanes make motorists less aware that they're turning left into another lane or crossing a cyclists path. Removing the slip lane makes them more conscious of their left turn, makes them slow down and might even make them look at their mirror or indicate.

So yes, it might be mildly more inconvenient for some people but a) it's down to your own bad driving b) it might stop an accident from happening and c) it's one more step towards getting people to cycle which means one less car causing congestion on your route.

Yeah, but Mr. Gombeen is not the guy to sort the roads in the city - refer to the many videos available on how the Dutch handle junctions with cyclists - there's no excuse for the crap that goes on in this country. Also, motorists who tend to side swipe cyclists etc, on approach to junctions are not fit to drive - why are they on the road? Cyclists should also exercise a bit of cop when it comes to cycling on up on the blindside of vehicles approaching junctions - especially large vehicles. The problem in this country is that many road users think they have an exclusive god given right to the road - well, they don't!

Sheldons Brain · 29-03-2014 4:10pm

If motorists are not indicating or are otherwise acting irresponsibly at this junction, then erect a camera and prosecute them. Law abiding citizens should not be subject to further delay at the behest of law breakers.

lamaq · 29-03-2014 6:20pm

The guards don't bother with those offenses when it happens in front of them so what would spending money on a camera achieve?

monument · 30-03-2014 11:50am

AlekSmart wrote: »

Total Chaos reigning there this evening as the new road layout beds in....

Which is the same for most road layout changes in busy areas, even ones designed to be super pro-keeping cars movingas fast as possible!

Then again, for this area, the main thing stopping cars from moving is other cars and the fact there's so many of them on a fairly narrow and congested route.

AlekSmart wrote: »

features a VERY wide Cycle Lane

It's not very wide. It's just wide compared to the now substandard cycle lanes which are in place.

Clonskeagh Road is now the busiest cycling route in the DLRCC area -- surpassing the bicycle flows on the Rock Road last year. This is despite the cycle counter being apparently placed in a position which misses many of those using the road and turning into UCD!

And it feeds into one of the top 3-5 routes in Dublin City.

AlekSmart wrote: »

and a Single Traffic Lane for both Left Turning and Straight Ahead traffic....

Which will hardly impact on anybody at rush hour given how heavy the traffic is currently.

AlekSmart wrote: »

Does Irish Civic Administration have some sort of Pod Farm where cocoons of earnest young buffoons hang from branches awaiting the call of SDCC/DLRCC style organizations......?

Maybe you're the one in the cocoon? Changes in transport policy have been talked about in many threads you've posted in but your posts are still not reflecting the change in policy has happened.

From the report on the project:

"The provision of this cycle/pedestrian route accords with the sustainable travel policies in the DLR Development plan, the principles of Smarter Travel Policy, the objectives of the National Cycle Policy Framework, the DLR Cycling Policy and the NTA 2030 Vision."

You can feel free to disagree with these policies till the cows come home, but your usual posting theme about the flaws of the "Irish Civic Administration" types just does not stand up in this case.

donvito99 · 30-03-2014 4:05pm

I've definitely noticed cycle lanes getting wider, Rathgar Rd/Rathmines Rd is a good example with a few exceptions (the corner of Slattery's is beyond danngerous, two lanes plus 2 feet for cyclists and pedestrians stepping off the 4 foot footpath to avoid several bollards...). The extra foot or two makes a huge difference, makes over taking easier and, when done well, has little to no impact on motorists' journey times - their lanes are just a little narrower.

Sheldons Brain · 30-03-2014 10:15pm

There is self serving cabal, subject to scrutiny by nobody, producing these polices. If in the forthcoming local election you try and find out who is responsible for this, or where policy came from, the elected representatives won't have a clue where it came from or how to change it. It is all very fine to say that it is to promote cycling, but there is no such policy on place, you only have to look at the recent "cycle lane" on Blackthorn Road in Sandyford, presumably brought to the tax paying public from the same source.

monument · 31-03-2014 2:22am

Sheldons Brain wrote: »

There is self serving cabal, subject to scrutiny by nobody, producing these polices. If in the forthcoming local election you try and find out who is responsible for this, or where policy came from, the elected representatives won't have a clue where it came from or how to change it.

I think you'll find the only "self serving cabal" out there are the election candidates who don't or claim not to understand how local and national policy is agreed to. And any outgoing councilor or even new candidate who says they do not know about a county development plan needs a good kicking.

Here's a quick run down of where the policies come from:

DLR Development plan -- put to public consultation and then voted on and approved by elected DLR councilors.

Smarter Travel Policy and the National Cycle Policy Framework -- brought in my the last transport minister and adopted by the current government as government policy in the programme for government.

DLR Cycling Policy -- nearly sure this was also put to public consultation and then voted on and approved by elected DLR councilors.

Sheldons Brain wrote: »

It is all very fine to say that it is to promote cycling, but there is no such policy on place,

Yes, there is and it's policy approved by elected members of DLRCC or members of the Dail.

markpb · 31-03-2014 8:40am

I drove past that junction yesterday to see what it looked like. Apart from almost missing it based on the descriptions here (I was looking for some oversized cycle lane and couldn't find one), what I did see were three cars queuing in the cycle lane waiting to turn left, not a worry in the world about little things like road markings other road users.

ardmacha · 31-03-2014 11:32am

markpb wrote: »

I drove past that junction yesterday to see what it looked like. Apart from almost missing it based on the descriptions here (I was looking for some oversized cycle lane and couldn't find one), what I did see were three cars queuing in the cycle lane waiting to turn left, not a worry in the world about little things like road markings other road users.

Well the cyclists pay no heed to such things as road markings or other road users, so are hardly in position to complain.

markpb · 31-03-2014 11:34am

ardmacha wrote: »

Well the cyclists pay no heed to such things as road markings or other road users, so are hardly in position to complain.

I'm not sure if your post is simply petulant like a toddler or proposing a state of anarchy on the roads, perhaps you could clarify?

lamaq · 31-03-2014 6:04pm

markpb wrote: »

I drove past that junction yesterday to see what it looked like. Apart from almost missing it based on the descriptions here (I was looking for some oversized cycle lane and couldn't find one), what I did see were three cars queuing in the cycle lane waiting to turn left, not a worry in the world about little things like road markings other road users.

I noticed they have double yellow lines 5 meters from the traffic lights. It's a mandatory 24 hour cycle lane so why does it need double yellow lines also? They also need to remove the old bike lane sign - https://www.google.ie/maps/@53.304614,-6.235531,3a,75y,329.86h,70.94t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1s4AjiUpXPTxqImuNTlMlTKg!2e0

Apart from that it looks like a normal bike lane.

desertcircus · 31-03-2014 6:11pm

The southbound cycle lane is now significantly worse than it was: until now it was no problem to turn right onto Bird Avenue, but the new raised design now means you have to cycle with the cars from the start of the new lane, including cars driven by people who'll take exception to a cyclist not using the "perfectly good" cycle lane, and you get no choice on wher to merge.

lamaq · 31-03-2014 6:14pm

True, I preferred the way it was alright. My main issue is that they've made the path so narrow now it will encourage pedestrians to walk on the bike lane.

30 years of building bike lanes and they're still doing it wrong :mad:

Roebuck Road/Bird Avenue Clonskeagh.

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